14:32:22 <suehle> #startmeeting State of ARM
14:32:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  2 14:32:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is suehle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:32:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:32:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'state_of_arm'
14:33:06 <suehle> Core toolchain and features: Not much to say now.
14:33:16 <suehle> Now we've got everything from golang and even rust all the way through
14:33:24 <suehle> The only currently missing on 64 is mono
14:33:35 <suehle> Since the MS purchase, that's all ended up upstream, waiting for release of patches
14:33:42 <suehle> Should be in F25 cycle
14:34:06 <suehle> #meetingname flock2016
14:34:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock2016'
14:35:17 <suehle> #info server edition to become primary architecture
14:35:36 <suehle> #info cloud edition, alongside docker images, producing qemu images
14:35:48 <suehle> doing nightly docker images
14:36:19 <suehle> #info workstation edition: all the stuff's there, runs on arm v7, incl accelerated graphics stack (primarily nvidia)
14:38:06 <suehle> if anyone else wants me to addchair lmk
14:41:26 <suehle> Kernel: A few releases ago we carried a patch of 100,000 lines
14:41:56 <suehle> We currently have 1 patchset for aarch64 which provides pcie support, needed for some enterprise hw
14:42:38 <suehle> Some like odroid are still dealing with upstreaming stuff but are improving a lot
14:43:19 <suehle> Bootloaders: Couple of major bootloaders supported
14:43:51 <suehle> UEFI on Aarch 64. one of the things working on for about 4 years, an open source UEFI implementation called TianoCore
14:43:58 <suehle> Couldn't ship it because of licensing problems
14:44:29 <suehle> Microsoft as part of agreement with FOSS community and in conjunction with Intel fixed that problem so they can ship that version of UEFI stuff on OpenStack
14:44:35 <suehle> Now have firmware that works out of the box with vms and such
14:45:21 <suehle> UBoot, the other bootloader we use a lot, such as on Odroid
14:45:42 <suehle> Should soon be easier to support
14:46:14 <suehle> Intend to be working in F25
14:47:37 <suehle> Question: Do we envision being able to put a stub on an SD card to run Anaconda? Answer: Yes, you can now.
14:48:04 <suehle> UBoot on the SD card pxe boots off the network and kickstart installs to the HD w/Anaconda
14:49:07 <suehle> #info Ian McLeod writing a blog post about Anaconda on SD card
14:49:50 <suehle> In the process of doing a proposal, which has a FESCo ticket, for redefining what constitutes a secondary architecture, or an "alternative architecture."
14:50:08 <suehle> At the moment, the designation is the instance of Koji it runs in, but doesn't hold true anymore.
14:50:27 <suehle> In the case of Aarch64 it makes sense to promote to primary bc a lot of people are using it as such and have that expectation
14:50:42 <suehle> PRomotion of, say, Workstation on Aarch64 doesn't make sense bc not a lot of out of the box for that.
14:50:46 <suehle> Watch devel list for more info
14:51:05 <suehle> (Sorry, missed a few words there about specific uses of AArch)
14:52:54 <suehle> #info Hoping to move Aarch64 to primary architecture
14:53:04 <suehle> #topic questions
14:53:25 <suehle> Q: What about Raspberry Pi?
14:53:33 <suehle> A: We support Raspberry Pi in F24 on the Pi 2 and 3.
14:53:52 <suehle> It all works. The only thing that never got around to doing is producing an image that you could just dd onto a card and "just work."
14:54:26 <suehle> You need a vfat partition at the beginning set up a special way. The toolchain that builds the nightly images in Koji is "an antiquated pile of crap," which we are working to replace with Live Media Creator.
14:54:45 <suehle> Intend to make that change for ARM disk images, but some functionality didn't work in time for 24.
14:54:58 <suehle> Hope to do Pi images that people could consume for 2 and 3.
14:55:22 <suehle> In F25, we will have disk images to enable the support with fully accelerated gnome stack and gpio support.
15:00:04 <suehle> Q: What are the best devices to buy now?
15:00:10 <suehle> A: What do you want to use it for?
15:00:33 <suehle> For desktop users, Jetson TK1 will give you fully accelerated Wayland desktop. It is not cheap. About $2-300.
15:01:06 <suehle> AllWinner A20 devices, Banana Pi are good devices for server-related stuff because SOC attached gigabit ethernet port, a real SATA port, so you can get real performance if you want to do something like Gluster
15:01:10 <suehle> BeagleBone for IOT
15:02:11 <suehle> We now support about 180 devices, so which one depends on what your use is.
15:03:36 <suehle> Q: When you were proposing moving AArch 64 to primary, you mentioned objections--what are you anticipating?
15:03:53 <suehle> A: It is usual community bickering from a handful of ppl who will just object.
15:04:24 <suehle> First floated proposal at Flock last year, have done a lot of discussions, and have answered a lot of questions. The people I first expected to object have been largely positive.
15:05:31 <suehle> We have in Phoenix racked up a moonshot chassis with 30 blades in it. Waiting on firmware fix from manufacturer. And we should have that shortly. Hoping within 2-3 weeks we'll have the first batch of ARM v7 virtual builders.
15:05:49 <suehle> On the test building the kernel and the Java stack on a mustang, which is a similar hw spec w/slow hard disk, have cut build time in half.
15:08:02 <suehle> The moonshot blades have ssds, may be even better. May be even faster.
15:08:26 <suehle> Internet dropped--can somebody tell me what my last visible line was?
15:08:32 <suehle> before that moonshot line
15:10:32 <suehle> Q: Has there been testing on mobile phones?
15:10:44 <suehle> A: No, but yes. It's not a device form factor we're actively aiming for.
15:12:35 <suehle> Hope for getting Nexus 7 tablet working, but bootloaders are "an utter trainwreck"
15:13:02 <suehle> If you screw up a kernel update, you have a bricked device, which is contrary to the Fedora experience
15:13:47 <suehle> The # of people working on ARM hardware is small, so we're focusing on IOT devices and other things, RasPi, things people are interested in and are cheap and easily supportable.
15:14:12 <suehle> Nexus 7, if you build your own kernel, you could have a decent experience.
15:15:25 <suehle> #endmeeting