04:30:39 #startmeeting g11n-fad 04:30:40 Meeting started Mon Aug 31 04:30:39 2015 UTC. The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 04:30:40 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 04:30:49 #meetingname g11n-fad 04:30:49 The meeting name has been set to 'g11n-fad' 04:30:54 #topic agenda and roll call 04:30:56 hi 04:31:15 Agenda: We want to discuss on fruitful topics and some scheduling for FAD. 04:31:30 hi tagoh_ :) 04:31:38 hoping we will have quick discussion. 04:31:46 hi 04:31:53 yes, I would say sessions/tracks for the FAD 04:31:59 hi 04:32:32 session looks nice name. 04:32:34 hm well "tracks" sounds too much like a conference probably 04:32:59 lets quickly go through existing sessions ideas 04:33:24 in between those are already available on https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p2jAxbo778CvBbr0h6n9hICTkQh5rMmbKY7g0kdGUWE/edit# :) 04:33:30 feel free to edit it. 04:34:00 1. Fedora G11N - Where we stand? 04:34:41 I think this is like BoF. We started G11N 3 months back and need to see how are we doing and what can we do in future. 04:35:02 if we agree for this i can takeover for this topic. 04:36:02 yes we should start with topic like this 04:36:09 +1 04:36:26 great. how much time should we spend on this? 04:36:29 are these topics to be discuss in FAD? 04:36:43 yes. 04:36:49 good to have some discussion around fedora g11n, progress, direction and next steps 04:36:50 ok 04:37:15 15 min for explaining what has been done and may be 30min for discussion for directions and next steps? 04:37:19 dunno - 2 hours (max?)? 04:37:31 okay 1 hour might be enough 04:37:46 yup 04:37:47 1h 04:37:54 yes 04:38:00 I feel anything less than 1 hour is not really meaningful for a FAD IMHO 04:38:15 need some depth 04:38:25 quite a few things to discuss too 04:38:25 yeah, i think its more like brainstorming, so more time is good. 04:38:31 right 04:38:48 #agreed Fedora G11N - Where we stand? - 1HR - Pravin 04:38:48 15meetbot.meeting.item.agreed -- pravins noted agreement in the "g11n-fad" meeting in #fedora-g11n: "Fedora G11N - Where we stand? - 1HR - Pravin" 04:39:15 next one: Glibc Locale archive split (?) 04:39:31 I think everyone be involved in the G11n discussion 04:39:59 oops, yes, its for all attendees. 04:41:13 pravins, but you can be moderator or something :) 04:41:18 presently mfabian is actively working on splitting glibc locales archive. 04:41:40 yeah, we need lead for each session, so we can ask him to provide report after session :) 04:41:50 true 04:41:55 lead/moderator 04:42:45 chair person? 04:43:03 yes, we can call it chair person as well. 04:43:05 yeah probably depends on the nature of the session 04:43:43 for discussion moderator or chair is fine I guess 04:44:23 the glibc locales subpackaging has quite a lot of implications for Fedora which could be discussed 04:45:06 yes this needs more time to discuss say like 1 to 1.5 hrs 04:45:15 I think not everyone needs to be part of this 04:45:35 we can discuss briefly like how the implementation will be 04:45:40 yeah not just discussion we could do some prototyping and testing 04:45:42 its mainly for i18n engineer? 04:45:52 aeng, probably 04:46:03 agree. 04:46:20 yeah, proto typing and testing will be great during FAD. 04:46:27 +1 04:48:04 1hr + i18n team? 04:48:21 who is interested? 04:48:36 i think anyone can sit in 04:49:05 this is major change and even awareness will be important for all. 04:49:05 just put in the topic (i18n engineer) 04:49:17 "i18n topic" might be good. 04:49:23 yup 04:49:48 well I am trying gauge interest for the different sessions 04:50:15 but we can ask people to add their names later 04:50:25 aha, nice idea 04:51:14 and it can also keep room open for parallel sessions. 04:51:32 indeed 04:51:38 #agreed Glibc Locale archive split - prototyping and testing - 1hr 04:51:45 lets move to next one. 04:51:46 1 hour is far too little 04:52:05 it might be half-day session 04:52:19 * pravins very optimistic ;) 04:52:43 IMHO 04:53:49 maybe up to Mike too 04:53:57 let's check with him later too 04:54:33 we should allocate 1.5 hrs only as we may need other topics to be covered 04:54:38 well I put 3 hours for now in the google doc 04:54:50 paragan, it is not for everyone 04:54:55 impact is very high due to locale split. 04:55:01 that too 04:55:02 okay np 04:55:16 I would say 3 hours is probably optimistic 04:55:24 ok, let it be for now. While scheduling things will be more clear for topic. 04:55:36 #undo 04:55:36 Removing item from minutes: AGREED by pravins at 04:51:38 : Glibc Locale archive split - prototyping and testing - 1hr 04:55:38 it might be good topic during hackathon day 04:56:03 #agree Glibc Locale archive split - prototyping and testing - 3hrs (Will check with mfabian) 04:56:04 +1 04:56:14 ok +1 04:56:22 next topic 04:56:28 #info Automated Testing for L10N and I18N 04:57:27 I think we discussed on multiple ideas 04:57:34 I proposed this - but not sure if I am the right person to lead it :) 04:58:04 presently tagoh_ is leading most of the i18n test day things. may be he can suggest :) 04:58:19 it would be fun to play a bit with behave etc and get some feel for what can be done 04:58:25 sure 04:58:30 same time adamw also suggested for automated installation testing for non-english locales. 04:58:38 right 04:58:58 I guess that will happen thanks Fedora QA 04:59:09 seems like experimental topic 04:59:16 Idea is someone should do homework prior FAD day and present finding to all 04:59:18 it is 04:59:23 then onwards all can work 04:59:33 pravins, yes ideally 04:59:37 not all :) 04:59:47 aeng: dunno what automated testing is in use for Zanata 04:59:49 I think it is another hackathon topic 05:00:12 agree 05:00:16 pravins, we use selenium for UI testing 05:00:46 aeng, for browser, right? 05:00:57 yup. 05:01:00 ok 05:01:33 agree it is also hackthon topic 05:01:39 not sure about desktop app.. 05:02:02 aeng: you mean z-p client? 05:02:15 z-p? 05:02:24 zanata python client :) 05:02:40 ah...that.. we got no UI test 05:02:51 good place to start looking - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GUI_testing_tools 05:02:58 aeng, python behave testing tool/framework seems to be one option for testing desktop applications 05:03:04 aha 05:03:11 This is definitely interesting topic for Fedora. Automation is better to make sure all G11n modules working fine. 05:03:55 #agreed Automated Testing for L10N and I18N - Hackthon topic 05:04:31 less time- lets move to next topic :) 05:04:43 #info Language support matrix (?) 05:04:57 This is long time pending task for Fedora. 05:05:14 We need clear picture/number on how many languages do we support in Fedora. 05:05:39 and which has the highest impact/priority 05:05:40 before that, should we clarify what "support" really means in Fedora? or we did? 05:05:59 tagoh_: +1 05:06:26 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/LanguageSupportCriteria 05:06:37 We did this long time back. 05:08:24 that rather sounds like how-to-add-language in Fedora 05:09:21 yeah, we can say that. 05:09:24 #link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GUI_testing_tools 05:10:31 pravins, what's the objective? :) 05:10:34 idea behind this session, is to get exact status on number of language we support in Fedora. It will be definitely i18n support 05:10:45 ok 05:11:04 Wikipedia support 300+ language, so where does Fedora stands from language support. 05:11:08 needs quite some time I think but probably worth doing yes 05:11:18 off course Wikipedia criteria is bit different. its just website. 05:11:31 who wants to work on it? 05:11:45 I think it could also be a Hackathon topic 05:11:52 ? 05:12:13 I can help :) 05:12:35 maybe we should go through the topics that are most likely to be of interest to most people first for general sessions? 05:12:47 pravins, how long does it need? 05:12:51 just wonder if there are any case the supported language can be dropped from the list. that wiki page doesn't mention that. 05:13:29 we could discuss that even on the session though 05:13:33 aha, tagoh_ you means if xyz components does not support language. simply remove langauge for supported list? 05:13:42 yeah, session will be nice. 05:13:52 This topic should not take much tiem. 05:13:59 s/tiem/time 05:14:57 1 hr session is fine i think. 05:15:03 really? 05:15:27 what can be done in 1 hour? :) 05:15:49 um maybe 2-3 hrs for this also 05:15:50 pravins: something like that. and maintainers could say "that language isn't supported by Fedora. close as UPSTREAM" then, for instance. 05:16:08 yeah, may be more is good. 05:16:14 or even NOTABUG or whatever. 05:16:33 tagoh_: liked idea !! 05:17:03 After this session: If we come up with list of all languages supported by Fedora, that will be really good achievement for FAD. 05:17:06 pravins, session will involve Fedora testing? 05:17:31 juhp: yeah, agree with you more time is good. 05:17:45 juhp: yes. 05:17:50 juhp: may depends on how we set the goal. 05:19:17 at least to have a list of supported lang? 05:19:36 aeng: yes. 05:19:58 probably categorised into diff priority... must have to optional 05:21:05 Lets for now allot 2 hrs for Language support matrox 05:21:30 okay - probably not every needs to be involved in this? 05:21:36 yes 05:21:47 you might need input from translators as well. 05:22:12 #agreed Language support matrix - Parag (2hrs tentative) 05:22:37 moving to next one 05:22:46 aeng, yep 05:22:48 #info Localization status in Fedora - How to get more contributors into L10n and improve the localization status (?) 05:23:01 #info Mentoring to new contributors 05:23:09 I think these two topics are similar? 05:23:14 ah 05:23:16 re;ated 05:23:43 well L10n status is kind of separate but yes related topics 05:24:15 L10n status = reporting, how to get contributors = discussion/brainstorming 05:24:25 The Mentoring topic means discussing/setting up for more mentoring in the future? 05:24:46 aeng, yes 05:24:46 agree, i think i mixed it ;) 05:24:56 good to know current status 05:25:13 like we did for language support, should we do for L10n status as well? 05:25:14 not sure who proposed it? 05:25:26 i have added it :) 05:25:36 I think it is a good idea 05:25:37 but i think either Noriko or Ani can help into it. 05:25:41 yes 05:26:14 lets have this also in hackthon. 05:26:27 I think L10n status is an interesting topic for everyone 05:26:33 and mentoring can become session for discussion and brainstorming 05:26:38 yup. and probably getting stats from Zanata.. 05:26:46 aeng: yeah. 05:27:40 how about to separate the status from the rest perhaps? at least i don't have a clear understanding of the main current problems in Fedora L10n 05:28:13 yes, we good to separate 05:28:40 if Noriko and Ani agree to carry such a session 05:29:21 lets add there name, we can talk with them later. 05:30:01 perhaps we should have general session for Fedora i18n status/discussion too 05:30:34 since this is kind of a multidiscipline FAD 05:31:03 sounds good to me 05:31:11 +1 05:31:53 probably also for Zanata 05:31:56 #agreed Fedora L10n status and discussion - 1hr (Noriko/Ani) 05:32:11 juhp: yeah, that is where we have Zanata and Fedora in idea list. 05:32:37 okay 05:32:44 sorry if I am jumping the gun 05:33:23 nope, this looks perfect. It will help in scheduling 05:33:29 We already have these things in Ideas 05:33:55 #info Zanata and Fedora 05:34:18 #agreed General discusssions on l10n, i18n and Fedora. 05:34:46 yes 05:34:57 yeah, i can create some stats around fedora.. 05:35:49 great 05:38:01 next one 05:38:09 #info Zanata Feedback survey 05:38:25 i think this will be also kind of session? 05:38:36 well.. 05:38:54 its more for translators and maintainers i suppose 05:38:57 where one can quickly go through findings from survey and then all can suggest, brainstorm on future plans 05:39:27 aeng: though its for translators and maintainers, we want to improve Zanata from input 05:39:36 agree 05:40:02 survey planning/preparation? 05:40:19 nope, survey will be done by that time. 05:40:24 ah okay 05:40:30 how? :) 05:40:33 we need to work on findings from them. 05:40:39 sorry nm 05:40:41 so review 05:40:44 gotcha 05:40:47 cool 05:40:50 planning to execute it by 2nd Sept. 05:41:16 should it be a kind of hackathon session then? 05:41:48 both will be fine i think 05:41:53 this week I see 05:42:04 good to have as a hackthon, since it can happen in parallel 05:42:10 yes it would be good to share summary of results 05:42:10 with other hackthons 05:42:54 then probably we need some closing general sessions to share summary of outcomes of hackathon topics 05:43:01 aeng: what do you think? We do have Carlos, mkim, Ani and Noriko and also can get some remote participation. 05:43:16 juhp: yeah, indeed we need this. 05:43:56 yeah, sharing the survey would be good 05:44:05 anyone who is interested 05:44:12 yes 05:44:32 and feedback from attendees as well 05:45:23 aeng: i think one of above mentioned name can lead the session. 05:45:45 #agreed to have Zanata feedback survey session as a hackthon 05:45:52 next one 05:45:57 #info L10N sprint 05:46:07 This is more like planning, I just added it as a idea 05:46:16 dunno whether we should actually do it and what can be done into it. 05:46:18 juhp: 05:47:00 aha 05:47:11 it is a bit vague.... 05:47:15 yeah. 05:47:23 lets drop it now and keep it on hold. 05:47:34 any input from noriko or apeter? 05:47:36 okay 05:47:40 unless anyone else has inputs 05:48:28 #agree to hold L10N sprint idea - will decide after input from Ani or Noriko 05:48:51 #agreed to hold L10N sprint idea - will decide after input from Ani or Noriko 05:49:43 next one 05:49:45 #info Strategy for Different Fedora products 05:49:50 I would say the final hackathon topic list will not be definitive anyway but good for everyone to plan ahead what they are going to do during the FAD hackathon blocks 05:49:51 i am also not sure for this one. 05:50:09 but if we see one more idea 05:50:19 #info Hangout with FPL 05:50:33 if thats possible we can ask FPL to elaborate on that. 05:50:45 hmm 05:51:14 that's certainly interesting idea - if we can find a common time 05:52:05 * pravins will try to talk with FPL 05:52:11 I think some discussion around the Fedora Editions is useful anyway 05:52:25 Editions means? 05:52:30 products 05:52:48 yes 05:52:59 May be we can add it in general discussions? 05:53:05 perhaps 05:53:12 Hangout with FPL - Discussion on different Fedora editions 05:53:29 after FPL discussion, we can continue on it, 05:54:48 wahts FPL? 05:54:59 aeng: its Fedora project leader 05:55:07 ah 05:55:09 he is Matthew Miller presently 05:55:26 it :) 05:55:59 in a way it might be more of an i18n topic though possibly of more general interest 05:57:03 :) 05:57:17 I don't think products/editions has too much direct impact for l10n/zanata currently? 05:57:57 so far the locales subpackaging is perhaps the closest topic 05:58:18 anyway +1 if there is time 05:58:24 juhp: i think products do have impact. specifically if we have to do l10n of some packages. 05:58:33 ok 05:58:50 like each product has different high priority packages for l10n. 05:59:52 next one?? 06:00:00 #info Fedora 24 plans? 06:00:29 +1 06:00:44 I think this is must 06:01:01 this will be like general session? 06:01:19 closing session perhaps? 06:01:24 looks good 06:02:28 #agreed for Fedora 24 plans as a general session for all. can do in closing session 06:02:39 next one 06:02:48 #info Fedora language spin 06:03:17 i want to discuss on this topic. i.e. does it make sense to ahve language spins for Fedora. 06:03:34 hmmm 06:03:35 In FUDCon APAC couple of people requested for this. 06:04:03 may be not need lot time - 30 mins 06:04:28 so if you agree, we can include it in FAD schedule 06:05:13 discussion or actually work on it? 06:05:18 or both? :) 06:05:26 yes we should try and have some process to create language spins 06:05:44 what's the background on this requirement? 06:05:50 could it be done in hackathon? 06:05:59 looks good 06:06:28 hackthon looks good. 06:07:43 #agreed Fedora Language spins as a hackthon topic - can discuss and also try to create some process for it. 06:08:18 next one: 06:08:20 #info Next generation G11n architecture - decoupling translations from software (Jens) 06:08:36 This is definitely looks like hackthon topic :) 06:08:42 yeah 06:09:11 lets add last topic as well 06:09:17 #info L10N of Fedora Magazine 06:09:38 aeng: this idea i want to discuss with council first, if they are interested may be we can see how can we do it. 06:10:00 fedora magazine idea? 06:10:21 yes 06:10:45 presently there is no localization happening on Fedora Magazine article, so do we need it and if yes how to do it. 06:10:55 I like the idea 06:11:08 it will be also hackthon, right? 06:11:18 i would imagine so 06:11:26 given the format is supported in Zanata 06:11:37 we can prototype it there 06:11:52 that will be excellent 06:12:52 #agreed L10N of Fedora Magazine can be hackthon - need to check with ryan lerch and council for there interest. 06:13:18 sorry, just wanted to say I wouldn't mind have some general discussion on the Next Generation G11n architecture too 06:13:34 * apeter traveling hence could not make it for the meeting.. trying hotspot 06:14:34 juhp: so, if we get consensus on architecture, we can try to prototype it? 06:14:57 apeter: no problem, will post log for you. Your name is added in couple of idea already :) 06:14:57 possibly :) 06:15:20 thanks pravins 06:15:22 there is a lot of design work and workflow considerations needed 06:16:38 no problem, them lets have it in general discussion. We can definitely get good inputs from Zanata and L10N members 06:16:43 hmm 06:16:58 but maybe better as hackathon discussion... ? 06:17:08 let's think maybe 06:17:17 lets have a general discussion, since this is new idea. Good to have inputs from all 06:17:21 okay 06:17:28 for Hackthon there is good possibility we will get split 06:18:05 yeah, but can be in same room if limited space 06:18:56 yes 06:19:11 I think we done on all topic ideas 06:19:24 now last one remaining in "Fedora 23 release party" 06:19:26 awesome 06:19:51 it will need approx 2 hrs, we can even make it smaller. 06:20:19 what sort of party? 06:20:26 will cut cake 06:20:32 and have some talks on Fedora 23 06:20:39 it is for general public 06:20:57 +10 06:20:57 so we can invite Tokyo office members and also if community members are available 06:21:02 :) 06:22:55 anything more to discuss 06:22:57 ? 06:23:01 nope 06:23:19 now it looks big list of topics for FAD. 06:23:27 I think we need more input from participants on the hackathon - currently not everyone seems covered in the list 06:23:31 may be we will work on schedule on Wed. meeting. 06:23:39 yeah 06:23:57 juhp: you more more topics or comment/participation in present topics? 06:23:58 I would roughly: Monday general opening sessions 06:24:08 say ^ 06:24:39 Tues and Wed morning: Hackathon 06:24:58 morning hackthon sounds good. 06:24:59 pravins, well not everyone is hearing and said anything 06:25:11 pravins, whole Tue :) 06:25:22 We are starting from Sunday :) 06:25:36 Sun, Mon Tues right? 06:25:36 ah sorry I am off by one 06:25:49 I meant Day 1: opening general sessions 06:26:02 Day2: hackathon 06:26:26 Day 2 second half we need to do Fedora 23 release party. Since Tuesday is holiday and we cant get attendees from Tokyo office. 06:26:28 Day 3: hackthon, closing sessions and Release Party 06:26:33 well that is just my thinking 06:26:44 hmm 06:27:06 it will probably be harder to get people to join during work time to be honest 06:27:15 so I would suggest Tue for the party 06:27:24 or Mon night :) 06:27:34 he he :) 06:27:38 I am serious 06:27:41 after office time? 06:27:44 indeed 06:27:50 this is Japan :) 06:27:52 or Lunch time perhaps. 06:27:54