14:01:38 <sayan> #startmeeting fedora-hubs
14:01:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 16 14:01:38 2016 UTC.  The chair is sayan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-hubs'
14:02:02 <sayan> #topic Roll Call
14:02:14 <mizmo> .hello duffy
14:02:15 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
14:02:15 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
14:02:18 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
14:02:20 <devyani7> .hello devyani7
14:02:21 <zodbot> devyani7: devyani7 'Devyani Kota' <devyanikota@gmail.com>
14:02:56 <sayan> #topic Weekly Updates
14:03:06 <sayan> skrzepto: want to go first?
14:03:21 <skrzepto> sure
14:04:05 <skrzepto> So basically I was just working on streaming server and optimizing it. atelic and I ported the app to py3
14:04:46 <skrzepto> I made a mistake with last weeks benchmark results
14:04:52 <skrzepto> heres a blog post about it https://skrzepto.github.io/blog/benchmark-too-good-to-be-true.html
14:05:17 <skrzepto> basically the program can handle around 15,000 active concurrent connections on a single core vps
14:05:42 <skrzepto> but Im doing work to parralelize the program
14:05:50 <skrzepto> </eom>
14:06:01 <a2batic> .hello a2batic
14:06:02 <zodbot> a2batic: a2batic 'None' <murarkakanika@gmail.com>
14:06:10 <devyani7> a2batic, o/
14:06:21 <sayan> skrzepto: cool, never heard of wrk
14:06:24 <a2batic> Hi
14:06:37 <mleonova> .hello mleonova
14:06:39 <zodbot> mleonova: mleonova 'Maria Leonova' <mleonova@redhat.com>
14:07:01 <sayan> #chair mizmo skrzepto devyani7 a2batic mleonova
14:07:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: a2batic devyani7 mizmo mleonova sayan skrzepto
14:07:08 <sayan> devyani7: want to go next?
14:07:10 <skrzepto> sayan, pretty nice tool. unfortunately doesnt complain about the ulimit though :/
14:07:40 <devyani7> so I don't have much to update this week.
14:08:15 <devyani7> will get back to my the bookmark issue possibly. and as far as the contact info PR...
14:08:38 <devyani7> need to ask atelic for help regarding the few offset glitches that he mentioned
14:08:58 <devyani7> had a few dayjob deadlines the previous week :)
14:09:01 <devyani7> </update>
14:09:37 <sayan> devyani7: by bookmark issue, you mean the manage bookmark modal?
14:10:11 <devyani7> sayan, yes the modal that I have been working on, that I need to finish !
14:10:16 <sayan> mizmo: want to go next?
14:11:10 <mizmo> sayan, i dont really have anythting to report besides the triage work we did last week
14:11:20 <mizmo> i wrote up a report and sent to hubs-devel: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/hubs-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/KWK7D2HKPSNMIQ43KULIJK4J2ZKDFGEK/
14:11:33 <mizmo> if anybody needs mockups let me know
14:11:48 <mizmo> depending on what else gets added to the oct release i will prioritize accordingly
14:11:57 <mizmo> /end
14:12:12 <sayan> mizmo: ok
14:13:14 <sayan> Nothing much last week, but I worked on dropping the Material UI for waartaa
14:14:06 <sayan> And integrating patternfly. There is a react-patternfly project https://github.com/jtomasek/react-patternfly
14:14:37 <sayan> But I am planning to use the source directly and integrate it.
14:14:54 <sayan> by source I mean the patternfly source
14:15:21 <mizmo> wait a minute
14:15:24 <mizmo> why are you using patternfly?
14:15:27 <sayan> This week planning to jump on working back on tahrir and getting things fixed there
14:16:10 <sayan> mizmo: As you know that material UI is broken
14:16:43 <a2batic> mizmo , Hi, can I have a word with you after meeting?
14:16:44 <sayan> Material UI gives a set of React Components and you don't need to care much about the CSS
14:17:10 <mizmo> i'd suggest react bootstrap over patternfly
14:17:45 <mizmo> we're using bootstrap for hubs (with fedora-bootstrap on top that has some customizations)
14:17:54 <mizmo> it'd be nice to have the same css scheme for everything
14:19:00 <sayan> react-bootstrap also provides react components
14:19:27 <sayan> In that case, the styles are mostly inline
14:19:49 <sayan> and hacking it is tough
14:20:09 <sayan> Also, afaik inline style dont scale properly
14:20:28 <sayan> So, I am planning to use the CSS file directly and use the classes
14:20:54 <mizmo> so you're implementing your own react version of patternfly?
14:20:56 * mizmo very confused
14:21:10 <sayan> mizmo: no
14:21:52 <sayan> mizmo: let me explain
14:22:36 <sayan> If you the first button example here - https://react-bootstrap.github.io/introduction.html
14:23:26 <sayan> where traditional HTML would look like <button id="something-btn" type="button" class="btn btn-success btn-sm">
14:24:07 <sayan> and the React libraries would provide you with re-usable components like <Button bsStyle="success" bsSize="small" onClick={someCallback}>
14:24:16 <mizmo> sure
14:24:20 <sayan> which is a wrapper over the traditional one
14:24:22 <mizmo> i follow that
14:24:29 <mizmo> (appreciate the explanation btw)
14:25:17 <sayan> Our plan is not to use the re-usable components rather write traditional HTML in the code
14:25:40 <mizmo> oh then why do you need a react library for it
14:25:55 <mizmo> and can you just use bootstrap / fedora-bootstrap instead of patternfly
14:26:48 <sayan> mizmo: no, we are not using the react-patternfly library
14:27:28 <sayan> we would be directly using it from here - http://www.patternfly.org/download/#_
14:27:40 <sayan> we can use bootstrap, fedora-bootstrap too
14:28:01 <mizmo> i dont htink using patternfly at all is a good idea
14:28:09 <mizmo> could we stick to bootstrap + fedora-bootstrap?
14:28:27 <mizmo> is there some need for patternfly that bootstrap / fedora-bootstrap doesn't provide?
14:29:31 <sayan> going through the patternfly-library, the content looks clean
14:29:45 <sayan> http://www.patternfly.org/pattern-library/#_
14:29:58 <mizmo> i dont understand what it provides over bootstrap that we need right now
14:30:03 <mizmo> can you help me understand?
14:30:44 <sayan> yes, so the waartaa project is only limited to hubs
14:31:37 <sayan> and later down the line there would be a long list of things that would be built
14:32:01 <sayan> https://github.com/waartaa/waartaa_stripe_open_source_retreat/blob/master/TODOS.rst
14:33:09 <sayan> waartaa would be a standalone client, loaded as an iframe in hubs
14:33:40 <mizmo> sure, i dont see why patternfly would be needed tho looking at this list
14:34:21 <sayan> using bootstrap would require a lot to acheive the desired outcome
14:35:46 <mizmo> sayan, youve seen the bootstrap v4 docs?
14:35:48 <sayan> any reasons not to use pattern-fly?
14:36:22 <mizmo> i have a lot of personal reasons i dont think it's a good idea to use patternfly for fedora projects:
14:36:34 <mizmo> - it's used for red hat products, while fedora stuff is community and not productized
14:36:52 <sayan> mizmo: yes
14:36:55 <mizmo> - bootstrap has a much, much larger community thus to find designers who can understand / use the CSS if it's written for bootstrap is a lot easier
14:37:29 <mizmo> - we've already started our own css standardization library, fedora-bootstrap, and i'd rather us use that wherever possible for fedora apps
14:38:01 <mizmo> - i admittedly dont know all the details, but apparently there are concerns about how patternfly forks from bootstrap (ryanlerch is a better person to ask about specifics) that i think would make for maintenance issues
14:38:52 <mizmo> - i am really sick of all the CSS libraries floating out there and would like to keep it simple, i've seen libraries we've relied on in the past (eg 960.gs) fall out of favor / die off and have to rewrite everything to some other library and i dont want that to happen
14:39:08 <mizmo> (bootstrap is so widely used / adopted at this point i'm a lot less worried about that issue with it)
14:39:29 <sayan> mizmo: one of the reasons using patternfly was it was based on the bootstrap
14:39:49 <mizmo> sayan, i dont understand what value it adds on top of boostrap other than red hat-like branding look + feel
14:40:00 <mizmo> sayan, does it provide some value i am not understanding?
14:40:35 <sayan> mizmo: I did not want to bring in the Red Hat branding look + feel
14:41:13 <sayan> as a dev, the UI look clean and close to what we wanted
14:41:52 <sayan> if we used bootstrap, we needed to work on it
14:41:59 <sayan> But I don't have any issues using that
14:42:31 <mizmo> sayan, is patternfly providing components that aren't in bootstrap?
14:42:40 <mizmo> sayan, i was under the impression it merely restyled what bootstrap already provided
14:44:25 <sayan> mizmo: it's restyled, and the restyling looks better
14:44:43 <sayan> like http://www.patternfly.org/pattern-library/cards/trend-card/#/_code
14:44:51 <mizmo> sayan, okay if it's just a restyling, let me and ryanlerch work on that, because we need to fill out fedora-bootstrap anyway
14:45:50 <mizmo> does bootstrap have cards?
14:46:09 <sayan> mizmo: yes, it does have card but the restyling aspect
14:46:32 <mizmo> that stuff isnt hard
14:48:12 <stickster> if I may... sorry for being late in here... but I think it might be wise for us not to proliferate frameworks if we can avoid it
14:49:04 <stickster> would it be possible for mizmo and ryanlerch to deal with some of the styling/functionality aspects so we can stick with bootstrap/fedora-bootstrap?
14:49:04 <sayan> mizmo: yes, but as a developer point we need to thing about the UX
14:50:13 <mizmo> sayan, think about the UX in terms of visual design rather than interaction?
14:50:20 <mizmo> isn't visual design the UX designer's domain?
14:50:24 * mizmo confused :(
14:51:02 <mizmo> sorry i didnt mean to turn this into a big thing, i am just really wary of picking up additional libraries, and usually i dont say anything, but i feel like CSS is my domain and i usually have to deal with whatever css framework decisions are being made in my day to day work
14:51:09 <sayan> mizmo: UX is about the interaction and patternfly tries to sort that out afaik
14:51:40 <mizmo> sayan, what parts of patternfly do you think address interaction design?
14:52:17 * mizmo just trying to figure out what the delta between bootstrap / fedora-bootstrap is
14:54:24 <sayan> mizmo: the thing is that patternfly library provides us with a mockup
14:54:38 <sayan> for example http://www.patternfly.org/pattern-library/application-framework/login-page/#_
14:54:57 <mizmo> are there mockups for hubs and/or wartaa that you're in need of?
14:55:29 <sayan> the same login page can we made with bootstrap but then we need a mockup
14:55:50 <mizmo> you have multiple UX designers (such as myself) available for providing those!
14:55:59 <mizmo> if you just use patternfly's, it'll look like a red hat product
14:56:37 <mizmo> i worry aobut the message a red hat product -looking site would send to the community :-/
14:57:10 <sayan> mizmo: true, but for hubs like we have the mockup for IRC widget
14:57:21 <stickster> There's also the aspect of inheriting changes... as we streamline sites we're trying to get *more* of them on fedora-bootstrap
14:57:36 <sayan> when the iframe will be loaded it will look like the mockup
14:58:03 <mizmo> sayan, it doesnt follow how patternfly is needed then? other than pulling more libraries into the client that aren't needed?
14:58:04 <sayan> but then for waartaa, we talked to a lot of UX designers but never got much help
14:58:10 <mizmo> sayan, nobody asked me
14:58:19 <stickster> sayan: I think that's precisely where mizmo can help
15:00:42 <sayan> mizmo: patternfly gives you stuffs which is ready to use since we can't build mockups, but we can use mockup I can totally go with bootstrap/fedora-bootstrap
15:00:48 <mizmo> \o/
15:00:50 <mizmo> of course
15:01:06 <mizmo> happy to provide whatever mockups you ned
15:01:15 <sayan> mizmo: thanks :)
15:01:23 <mizmo> do you have a list of stuff you need?
15:01:28 <mizmo> or do you need to start from scratch
15:02:11 <sayan> mizmo: it would be scratch, but I can make you a list of things by tomorrow
15:02:16 <mizmo> sayan, ok great!
15:02:18 <sayan> create GH issues for them
15:02:35 <mizmo> it'll be a big help for building out fedora-bootstrap too
15:03:14 <sayan> works for me, but the problem with fedora-bootstrap is I don't know what stuffs are new in fedora-bootstrap
15:03:51 <mizmo> i can work on starting to document that.
15:03:51 <sayan> I ran the setup pagure.io/fedora-bootstrap, but could find much in there
15:04:00 <sayan> s/could/could not
15:04:05 <mizmo> it just makes tweaks to the look/feel
15:04:07 <mizmo> mostly fonts and colors
15:04:13 <mizmo> so it loads the fedora web app fonts
15:04:27 <mizmo> the look/feel of pagure.io itself comes from fedora-bootstrap fwiw
15:05:27 <sayan> ^^ yeah, know that :)
15:05:43 <sayan> seems like we are over time
15:05:47 <mizmo> oh were you looking for documentation pages or something?
15:05:56 <sayan> mizmo: yes
15:06:04 <mizmo> ah yeh that is lacking :( ill start hacking on that
15:06:25 <mizmo> sorry to take up so much time :
15:06:26 <mizmo> :(
15:07:00 <sayan> having docs would be really great
15:07:26 <sayan> mleonova: do you want to update?
15:08:17 <sayan> a2batic: do you want to update?
15:08:40 <a2batic> sayan, hi
15:09:01 <a2batic> I wish to contribute to the UI/UX part of the project
15:09:18 <a2batic> I spoke to mizmo earlier via mail
15:09:28 <sayan> a2batic: hi, cool. mizmo is your POC :)
15:09:33 <a2batic> regarding another project
15:09:42 <sayan> let's end the meeting then
15:10:00 <sayan> #endmeeting