17:00:29 #startmeeting Fedora i3 SIG 17:00:29 Meeting started Tue Jun 2 17:00:29 2020 UTC. 17:00:29 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 17:00:29 The chair is x3mboy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:29 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_i3_sig' 17:00:35 #meetingname i3-sig 17:00:35 The meeting name has been set to 'i3-sig' 17:00:42 .fasinfo nasirhm 17:00:43 nasirhm: User: nasirhm, Name: Nasir Hussain, email: nasirhussainm14@gmail.com, Creation: 2019-11-25, IRC Nick: nasirhm, Timezone: Asia/Karachi, Locale: en, GPG key ID: D8126E559CE7C35D, Status: active 17:00:45 #topic Agenda 17:00:46 nasirhm: Approved Groups: i3-sig fedorabugs qa google-codein advocates fedora-join cla_done cla_fpca 17:00:52 #info (1) Roll call 17:00:57 #info (2) Introduction 17:01:06 #info (3) Follow Ideas 17:01:15 #info (4) Meeting times 17:01:20 #topic Roll call 17:01:23 .hello2 17:01:26 x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' 17:01:30 .hello2 17:01:33 Defolos: Sorry, but you don't exist 17:01:35 #chair 17:01:35 Current chairs: x3mboy 17:01:40 #chair nasirhm 17:01:40 Current chairs: nasirhm x3mboy 17:01:42 geez, thanks zodbot 17:01:47 .hello defolos 17:01:48 Defolos: defolos 'Dan Čermák' 17:01:48 #chair defolos 17:01:48 Current chairs: defolos nasirhm x3mboy 17:01:49 .hello2 17:01:51 lupinix: lupinix 'Christian Dersch' 17:01:55 #chair lupinix 17:01:55 Current chairs: defolos lupinix nasirhm x3mboy 17:02:08 hey all:) 17:02:10 Hello uys 17:02:15 lupinix, o/ 17:02:17 .hello aegorenk 17:02:18 aegorenk: aegorenk 'None' 17:02:27 #chair aegorenk 17:02:27 Current chairs: aegorenk defolos lupinix nasirhm x3mboy 17:02:37 #topic Introduction 17:02:42 Hey Guys 17:02:56 hey all! 17:03:09 For the ones who doesn't know, we are trying to create a i3-based spin 17:03:16 * Defolos knows 17:03:24 We have one ticket 17:03:29 * jwf waves 17:03:38 .hello jflory7 17:03:39 jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' 17:03:43 x3mboy: I'm working on the ticket :D 17:03:48 #chair jwf 17:03:48 Current chairs: aegorenk defolos jwf lupinix nasirhm x3mboy 17:04:08 #link https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/issue/1 17:05:03 #topic Follow Ideas 17:05:32 So guys, I'll pass the question to you:: What do you expect for the i3 Spin? 17:06:07 We need to understand that we will have hard times 17:06:29 Here's what I think, How about starting as a Packaging Group to package stuff related to i3 and different packages which i3 people use and one we have that list done, then move on to the Spin? 17:06:36 Because we need to make choices of what will be inculded, and for sure we are not going to please everybody 17:06:59 nasirhm, that makes sense 17:07:23 Also, I was looking at manjaro and regolith 17:07:31 To see how they solve some things 17:07:38 x3mboy: i think that would provide us momentum to start small & then move on to the Spin. 17:07:43 e.g. Network management 17:08:18 the major issue that I see with a spin is that i3 is all about being plugable and many users like to make different choices 17:08:43 Defolos, true 17:08:43 I've received a bugreport once that i3 puls in pulseaudio 17:09:32 I think at some point we need to stand by our decisions 17:09:47 yeah, I'm pretty sure the user wouldn't use our spin anyway 17:10:13 I think a package group would be a good starat 17:10:22 s/starat/start/ 17:10:49 especially as we can have a i3-minimal and i3-extended group for instance 17:11:02 where i3-minimal will give you, well i3, i3lock and i3status 17:11:11 Defolos: yes, we also did that with lxqt spin few years ago: package group first, some time later the spin including the feedback about the package groups 17:11:32 Defolos: I agree by you here, What we need is to ship with some basic i3 stuff. There's always be people would want something else, they can do so by removing what they don't like with what they prefer. 17:11:37 Defolos: I like idea about minimal and extended 17:11:50 I like the idea of i3-minimal & i3-extended. 17:12:05 lupinix, thanks for share the experience 17:12:16 I really loved the lxqt spin 17:12:17 i would also want to see some pure i3 Fedora too. 17:12:27 I moved from there because, well, i3 17:12:57 i actually use both of them and xfce 17:13:43 ok, so package group(s) first? 17:14:10 Yes, and I also prefer multiple groups 17:14:21 #idea create 2 package group first and then move to the Spin 17:14:25 Sorry, I am multitasking poorly! 17:14:26 Vote please? 17:14:26 Defolos: I think the Packagers Group is something we all agree on to start with. 17:14:27 +1 17:14:35 +1 17:14:37 +1 17:14:41 +1 17:14:49 +1 to a Packaging Group, I still think that is the most achievable goal for us at the moment 17:15:27 One thing is I'm new to RPM Packaging 17:15:33 +1 to it 17:15:37 jwf: i'm feeling the same way :P 17:15:54 nasirhm, me too 17:15:58 Defolos: re: i3 being pluggable and configurable. I think the goal of an i3 Spin should be to ship an opinionated default for i3. It is always easy to tweak and edit, but there are people who (like me) just want Something That Works 17:16:18 I don't think the i3 pro users will jump on-board to a Spin if they already have opinionated ways of how to set it up and use it 17:16:32 jwf: i do agree with that 17:16:37 See lxqt spin again, we also have multiple groups we use in the spins kickstart then https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/blob/master/f/fedora-lxqt-common.ks 17:16:43 The Packaging Group should be what we consider as "i3-minimal" 17:16:46 we can also figure out different aspects like networking, audio, etc. and agree on which features should be provided in minimal version 17:16:52 lupinix++ thanks for that link 17:16:52 jwf: Karma for lupinix changed to 4 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:16:53 #agree Create 2 package groups i3-minimal and i3-extended 17:16:57 #agreed Create 2 package groups i3-minimal and i3-extended 17:17:03 I never remember that command 17:17:08 :D 17:17:15 on that note, we could create a "i3-config" package that ships a more fancy and opinionated config for the extended package group 17:17:26 Defolos: Ooh. I like that idea 17:17:29 jwf: +1, I agree, I would love to have that is something standalone fedora with X11 and as it's basically configurable. 17:18:06 x3mboy: How do you think we should draft/brainstorm the package group? 17:18:24 We have lupinix's example with LXQt to work towards, but I guess first we need to figure out what i3-minimal or i3-extended mean 17:18:40 I think let's start with i3-minimal and then move on to different stuff. 17:18:42 * jwf thinks Defolos's i3-config package could replace the need for an i3-extended group 17:18:53 Maybe a wiki page or Etherpad? 17:19:19 I was thinking in a HackMD.io 17:19:26 * x3mboy is in love with HackMD.io 17:19:51 Works for me :) 17:20:08 * jwf just needs a place to type 17:20:16 something which doesn't need yet another account please 17:20:18 Works for me and then i can create a wiki page doc for it too :) 17:20:27 if it plugs into FAS then +1 from me ;-) 17:20:36 Defolos: +1 17:21:36 +1 :) 17:21:39 Defolos: +1 :D 17:22:43 Oh, but we can use a pagure issue, no? 17:22:58 Or even a .md file uploaded ti the gruop 17:23:09 Whatever works :) 17:23:37 for brainstorming I'd suggest something that doesn't require constant commits/saves 17:23:43 x3mboy: how about for getting input from everyone use an md file, then i document that either on wiki for Pagure :) 17:23:44 so a wiki page or an etherpad 17:24:00 Also we have our wiki 17:24:18 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/i3 17:24:21 jwf: regarding draft/brainstorm. I think it would be much easier if we wuold split that packages in groups. Like networking, audio, power management, ... And think one after another 17:24:48 aegorenk++ good idea, that way we will have a clear view of packages 17:25:10 yes, good idea, but maybe only for the brainstorming document 17:26:02 I can pick a task to figure out what we need to provide network management. I know that just nmcli is not always means that you can connect to wifi and so on 17:26:59 Defolos: yes, we can just keep that separation on paper, it's just to make it more comfortable thinking about it 17:27:00 * Defolos hasn't been using anything but nmcli for years… 17:27:10 aegorenk: It would mostly be NetworkManager, 17:27:39 nm-applet 17:27:44 aegorenk: +1 17:28:16 x3mboy: I use it too, last time i used nmcli was around a month ago. 17:28:25 x3mboy: +1 for nm-applet 17:28:39 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/i3/Brainstorm 17:28:41 nasirhm: cool 17:29:28 aegorenk, I have a categorization that I used personally 17:29:37 I will put it in the brainstorming space 17:29:50 This is where we have a choice to make, wither to add `nm-applet` in minimal or extended ? 17:30:09 Defolos, sure, the categories are for visualization, not to create package groups 17:30:14 Well, we need some kind of network management also in minimal 17:30:56 I edited the wiki page to add some categories 17:31:04 jwf, that was fast 17:31:06 Please refresh if you have it open :) 17:31:15 nasirhm: let's at first put whatever anyone thinks should be there, we can always filter things out later 17:31:17 x3mboy: Well, I did not list any packages yet :P 17:31:51 aegorenk: I agree. 17:32:00 We will need a terminal emulator 17:32:19 And here is when it became tricky 17:32:26 Probably lupinix can help 17:32:27 urxvt works for me :D 17:32:28 urxvt? Afaik this is what one gets when installing i3 currently 17:32:43 urxvt has an aweuful unicode support 17:32:59 afaik urxvt is sorta-kinda the default in i3 upstream as well 17:33:21 x3mboy: ironic that the u in urxvt afaik stands for unicode… 17:33:22 x3mboy: let's start with adding our suggestions there(on the wiki page) and then move on to filtering and making these decisions. 17:33:36 nasirhm, agreed 17:33:40 x3mboy: never faced problems with cirillic symbols 17:34:01 * jwf uses gnome-terminal 17:34:03 * jwf runs 17:34:05 The point I was trying to make is what kind of libraries will be inculded 17:34:17 gtk3 or qt5 17:34:24 Ah 17:34:25 nasirhm: +1 17:34:25 I'm asuming tk (for some reason 17:34:26 * nasirhm uses terminator & konsole 17:34:34 * Defolos uses st 17:34:36 I use tilix and xt 17:34:40 st* 17:34:40 x3mboy: GTK or Qt might be a good ticket topic 17:34:52 Defolos, st is awesome 17:34:53 I think a good spin should ship applications of the same library 17:34:58 We will have GTK installed anyway 17:35:08 anaconda 17:35:09 jwf, I totally agreed that until lxqt 17:35:27 I prefer GTK, but the only thing I think we must do is be consistent on picking apps that use the same libraries 17:35:31 lupinix, good point 17:35:54 Ok, let's storm the wiki 17:36:12 contra GTK: client side decorations, some GTK apps look quite messy in i3 17:36:26 that's a very good point with respect to which libs to choose 17:36:26 But there is some preload library to disable CSD 17:37:04 Well, I qould love to ship qutebrowser, but it's just because I love vim 17:37:09 #link https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd 17:37:28 qutebrowser <3 17:37:46 x3mboy: i prefer Firefox 17:38:01 x3mboy: Hahah, I know tjzabel loves qutebrowser too 17:38:19 But I think we should ship a default browser like Firefox. It will be easy enough for people to jump in and use qutebrowser if they want it 17:38:29 But I don't think it is necessarily a good *default* browser 17:38:32 yeah, I think we should use FF by default 17:38:36 nasirhm, too bloated. I mean, it's powerfull, not gonna lie. But qutebrowser is light fast and vim keybindings make it so beautifuñl 17:38:44 I hope we do not end up with browser discussion for years :P i'm also member of KDE SIG and there browser discusion is some kind of an "old traditaion" 17:39:10 lupinix, LOL! 17:39:11 I like using Firefox as default because it is default in Fedora Workstation and thus will always be a first-class citizen in Fedora 17:39:16 qutebrowser is not really light, technically its chromium. its comparable to Firefox 17:39:17 lupinix: but that's the fun part :P 17:39:17 Not true of other browsers 17:39:19 lupinix: hehehe, let's spend our lifetime with preferred tools discussion, it sounds kind og Cool 17:39:20 well but kde is kinda destined for that as they have 2 or 3 browsers… 17:39:29 No, I think we should ship firefox and offer qute as i3-extended or something 17:39:36 x3mboy: Works for me 17:39:46 x3mboy: Sounds good to me. 17:39:46 I am +1 for firefox 17:40:13 imho FF should be the default just because the spin should be more appealing to the beginner 17:40:16 lupinix, well, I meant light in terms of border decorations, not about ram comsumption 17:40:19 * lupinix is fine with both if them 17:40:24 s/if/of 17:40:28 ah ok 17:40:39 Here, I have one more: mail client : mutt or Thunderbird ? 17:40:45 #chair siddharthvipul 17:40:45 Current chairs: aegorenk defolos jwf lupinix nasirhm siddharthvipul x3mboy 17:40:47 Emacs! 17:40:54 mutt, always 17:41:00 do we need a mail client? 17:41:04 no 17:41:05 We are covering all the holy ways in just one meeting! 😂😂 17:41:17 lupinix, probably don't but we need to be prepare 17:41:20 lol :P 17:41:20 I don't think we should provide a default mail client 17:41:30 jwf, we aren't still mentioning text editors 17:41:32 jwf: I use gnome-terminal for real :P I have switched between alacrity, st but came back to gnome-terminal.. not my proudest confession 17:41:34 Isn't Evolution a default already…? 17:41:39 I want sublime 17:41:43 * x3mboy runs and hide 17:41:47 x3mboy: Be careful, Defolos is poking at that one :D :D 17:41:47 proprietary… 17:42:16 lol guys, this meeting's fun :P 17:42:25 * Defolos thinks you should whatever works for you 17:42:39 We will ship vim, everything else to the user choice 17:42:40 * Defolos is quite tired of the holy editor/whatever wars 17:42:40 for the editor : vim, emacs & nano 17:42:43 isn't vi is enough? 17:43:11 at least vim please :P 17:43:20 vim-enhanced 17:43:22 Defolos: +1 on using what works for you 17:43:22 vim and nano should be good for a start 17:43:24 I prefer nano and find `micro` more fun than vim and emacs 17:43:28 Defolos: +1 17:43:37 And I think we as a Spin should aim to be minimal and lightweight where possible 17:43:40 I mean do we want have one which works outside of terminal installed by default? 17:43:53 Using Fedora Workstation defaults makes more sense to me, when it is not an i3-specific thing 17:43:59 Well, if someone needs nano, then it doesn't deserve i3 17:44:02 I think evolution should be okay for email client.. or thunderbird if we really really want it 17:44:04 Joking, just joking 17:44:08 True, but joking 17:44:14 Using Fedora Workstation defaults for highly-opinionated things like text editors, browsers, etc. makes our work easier 17:44:21 x3mboy: no no, I support your lead on nano :P 17:44:36 jwf: good idea, we shift theh blame :-P 17:44:43 x3mboy: I'm a nano one :P 17:44:54 lolol. I didn't think of it like that but I guess it is a factor when thinking of BZ tickets :P 17:44:55 Defolos: Lol :P 17:44:56 .kick nasirhm 17:45:05 nano++ 17:45:05 jwf: Karma for nano changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:45:08 :P 17:45:11 lol 17:45:12 Oh, I should have expected that… 17:45:16 vim++ 17:45:16 jwf: Karma for vim changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:45:18 There 17:45:20 :P 17:45:21 nvim++ anyone? 17:45:27 no one sigh 17:45:29 siddharthvipul: Guess not 😂😂 17:45:30 vi++ 17:45:33 emacs++ 17:45:33 aegorenk: Karma for emanuelnazetta changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:45:33 Not 17:45:36 ed++ 17:45:36 lupinix: Karma for ed changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:45:39 :P 17:45:45 ed++ yep, that's it 17:45:46 siddharthvipul: Karma for ed changed to 2 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:45:48 ed with some pipes and grep 17:45:49 lets go back to unix basics 17:45:50 Anyways… anything we want to cover before wrapping up the meeting? 17:45:57 Well, we can ship awk 17:45:57 I sound like cookie party here. 17:46:05 I think the action item until we meet next is building out the package group list? 17:46:09 x3mboy: +1 with awk 17:46:10 Ok, let's move 17:46:17 Or is there anything else we should focus on until we meet next? 17:46:38 do we want to switch to calls? 17:46:48 #topic Meeting times 17:46:57 aegorenk: would love to have one. 17:47:14 Yes, we need to set a meeting time 17:47:16 aegorenk: Text meetings are more accessible for me during U.S. working hours. I could probably get time off for a one-hour a month video call on this though 17:47:17 To finish this 17:47:24 During my lunch break :P 17:47:47 text meetings tend to be easier wrt to organization and timing 17:47:50 jwf: I see. Good point. 17:48:14 If it's video one, would be good to keep it minimal like 30-45 mins at max and discuss things like this here on text 17:48:15 I for instance can't have a voice at 23:00 as I'll wake the gf… 17:48:16 This day/time generally works for me, but I am in black hole with my calendar right now :/ 17:48:21 Starting a new job in another week or two 17:48:33 C'mon we are arguing to a text meeting in and i3 sig? 17:48:36 LOL 17:48:45 We should stick to text 17:48:52 It should be part of our soul 17:48:53 x3mboy: Well, we are people behind these screens after all :D 17:48:57 +1 for text 17:49:04 yeah, lets stick to text && IRC 17:49:05 x3mboy: I see a sublime guy here :P 17:49:08 If we need interaction, we can use the social hour 17:49:12 * jwf likes video calls, but it is hard when Fedora is not what I am paid to do 17:49:25 x3mboy: Good point 17:49:28 * x3mboy shares jwf feeling 17:49:39 Well, so meeting time 17:49:39 jwf: I agree :P 17:49:40 * Defolos agrees 17:49:42 * siddharthvipul can't relate ":( 17:49:51 just kidding, I am not paid for this :P 17:49:52 * jwf: I agree 17:49:53 siddharthvipul: One of us! One of us! One of us! 17:49:53 I wan a whenisgood and the result is no time is ok for all 17:49:56 :D 17:50:11 s/wan/ran/g 17:50:20 x3mboy: this one sounds for me. 17:50:24 x3mboy: timezones! 17:50:39 So i vote here to keep this meeting time 17:50:41 I could go to an earlier time if this is tough for our Asian time zone friends 17:50:48 Looking at you, siddharthvipul and nasirhm 17:50:52 jwf me too 17:51:01 europe here :P 17:51:01 It is almost tomorrow for you siddharthvipul :D 17:51:08 .timezone nasirhm 17:51:09 It's 10:00 PM here and works fine here :) 17:51:14 .localtime siddharthvipul 17:51:15 jwf: The current local time of "siddharthvipul" is: "17:51" (timezone: UTC) 17:51:19 Localtime!! 17:51:23 .localtime lupinix 17:51:24 Well, that is a lie :P 17:51:24 lupinix: The current local time of "lupinix" is: "19:51" (timezone: Europe/Berlin) 17:51:26 .localtime nasirhm 17:51:27 nasirhm: The current local time of "nasirhm" is: "22:51" (timezone: Asia/Karachi) 17:51:39 .location aegorenk 17:51:42 Well, it's kind of late 17:51:48 I'll be probably relatively flexible for the next month with respect to times 17:51:50 jwf: works for me :) actually better.. all meetings are in my evening because everyone tries to keep a good time meeting and thus evenings are full 17:51:57 .locatime aegorenk 17:52:02 I'm feeling sleepy 🥱 17:52:03 We can move one hour to the left 17:52:06 .localtime aegorenk 17:52:07 wdyt? 17:52:07 aegorenk: User "aegorenk" doesn't share their timezone 17:52:09 I am fine with this time.. it's 23:22 fwiw 17:52:13 x3mboy: +1 17:52:24 Might want to mark that as an #agreed if everyone is on board to shift an hour earlier 17:52:40 jwf, I will do if everyone agreed 17:52:42 Tuesday 16UTC? 17:52:42 jwf: so I changed to UTC because that's what I have been following for a while.. sleep very late and getup late :p 17:52:45 +1 for 16:00 UTC on Tuesdays 17:52:50 An hour works fine for me. 17:52:55 ship it 17:53:04 #idea Tuesday 16:00 UTC for meetings 17:53:04 works for me for the next month probably 17:53:05 +1 17:53:09 +1 17:53:10 +1 17:53:12 +1 17:53:16 +1 17:53:18 after that don't know, but we'll see then 17:53:20 so +1 17:53:27 r/doitnow 17:53:45 x3mboy: I can create a calendar event (or someone else can) 17:54:00 #agreed to keep meetings Tuesays at 16:00 UTC 17:54:01 My work meetings are mostly in noon, so, I'm free for both evening & night. 17:54:16 siddharthvipul, please do it. Use the SIGs calendar in fedocal 17:54:19 siddharthvipul: I would love to set it up, would like to know how to add it there. 17:54:21 sure 17:54:31 Do we have our own calendar? 17:54:37 #action siddharthvipul will create the meetings in the fedocal 17:54:38 #action siddharthvipul to create a fedocal event for i3 sig meeting 17:54:39 I suggest using the CommOps calendar if we do not have one 17:54:52 x3mboy: oops, should have let you handle it 17:54:53 #topic Open Floor 17:54:54 https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/commops/ 17:55:19 So, let's move 17:55:28 It;s the SIG one. 17:55:37 What as you want, we have 5 minutes 17:55:48 jwf, I was using the SIG's one 17:55:51 siddharthvipul: are you creating it ? 17:55:56 nasirhm: yeah 17:56:07 #action everyone Work on adding Fedora package names to i3 Package Group brainstorm page 17:56:08 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/i3/Brainstorm 17:56:13 siddharthvipul++ :) 17:56:20 .thank siddharthvipul 17:56:20 jwf thinks siddharthvipul is awesome and is happy they are helping! (Please also type siddharthvipul++ since that is what gives them a cookie) 17:57:24 oh stahp it, you all are awesome!! 17:57:24 didn't we have a member of Fedora QA in here last time? 17:57:25 I gotta split folks! 17:57:28 * x3mboy have been testing and using Manjaro i3 community edition 17:57:38 This was a good start to the SIG :) 17:57:43 Will work on the wiki page in the meanwhile 17:57:47 Ciao folks! 17:57:50 o/ 17:57:55 I don't like the theming, But what i ahte the most was conky 17:57:57 thank you jwf for joining \o 17:58:00 Ok, let's close 17:58:04 Thnaks for coming 17:58:13 #endmeeting