16:06:54 <jwf> #startmeeting Fedora i3 SIG - 2021-05-18
16:06:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 18 16:06:54 2021 UTC.
16:06:54 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:06:54 <zodbot> The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:06:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:06:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_i3_sig_-_2021-05-18'
16:07:00 <jwf> #meetingname i3
16:07:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i3'
16:07:14 <jwf> #topic Roll call and introductions
16:07:32 <jwf> .hello jflory7
16:07:33 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <foss@jwf.io>
16:07:35 <jwf> Hi all!
16:07:40 <jwf> .members i3-sig
16:07:41 <andi89gi> Hey all!
16:07:41 <zodbot> jwf: Members of i3-sig: aegorenk +defolos +jflory7 kcwitt ludwigd +nasirhm odilhao siddharthvipul1 sumantrom @x3mboy
16:07:50 <x3mboy> .hi
16:07:51 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
16:07:55 <odilhao> .hi
16:07:56 <zodbot> odilhao: odilhao 'Odilon Junior' <odilon.junior93@gmail.com>
16:08:10 <jwf> #chair x3mboy odilhao
16:08:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: jwf odilhao x3mboy
16:08:21 <jwf> #chair andi89gi
16:08:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: andi89gi jwf odilhao x3mboy
16:08:25 <jwf> Howdy y'all!
16:08:37 <andi89gi> Hey folks!
16:08:44 <odilhao> Doing great
16:08:54 <andi89gi> doing fine thx
16:09:04 <jwf> This Matrix lag is awful. I am peeking at Telegram just to see what messages are being sent. Not sure if it is just me.
16:10:01 <jwf> I am logging in from webchat so I can properly chair
16:10:33 <jwf> #chair jwf|w
16:10:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: andi89gi jwf jwf|w odilhao x3mboy
16:10:38 <jwf|w> OK.
16:10:49 <jwf|w> That is better.
16:11:33 <jwf|w> Sorry for the disorganized, late start today!
16:11:39 <x3mboy> #link https://hackmd.io/@x3mboy/HkRYkI-Ku
16:11:41 <jwf|w> But sometimes that is how it goes.
16:11:44 <jwf|w> Oh super
16:12:28 <jwf|w> OK. So we have 50 minutes… I think we can focus on the retrospective and planning for Nest.
16:12:42 <jwf|w> Does that sound OK?
16:14:05 <jwf|w> I will take the silence as a yes :)
16:14:26 <x3mboy> Sure
16:14:31 <andi89gi> sure
16:14:34 <jwf|w> #topic Fedora 34 retrospective
16:15:10 <jwf|w> There are a couple of ways we should do a retrospective. I was thinking, it would be nice to brainstorm in a meeting and ticket on what could have been better, and then to summarize that into a CommBlog post
16:15:39 <jwf|w> I'm willing to do the CommBlog writing, but we need some ideas and feedback on what folks thought worked, and what didn't.
16:15:44 <jwf|w> Let me grab the Pagure ticket really quick.
16:16:24 <jwf|w> #link https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/issue/41
16:16:50 <odilhao> I've installed the Spin 3 times in the past couple weeks(tried silverblue 3 times and quited) , the lack of brightnessctl was something that I noticed, I think that we are already tracking this in one issue
16:17:32 <jwf|w> #idea (–) lack of default tool/utility to change brightness
16:17:42 <jwf|w> odilhao: That's a good point.
16:17:56 <jwf|w> One way we could start this for the meeting brainstorm—
16:18:10 <jwf|w> I think it helps to look first at what we did that went well.
16:18:22 <x3mboy> I know we have chosen azote as wallpaper manager, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't run
16:18:37 <jwf|w> There were some successes and things that worked well. What were the things that stood out to you in the Fedora 34 release cycle?
16:18:55 <jwf|w> #idea (–) azote shipped for wallpaper management, but does not run
16:18:58 <x3mboy> I think there is a dependency missing regarding ImageMagik
16:19:15 <jwf|w> One thing I am excited about is that we have nightly ISOs!!
16:19:28 <odilhao> jwf|w I think that our beta freeze was really good, we managed to fix everything before release, and the nightly ISO helped a lot
16:19:36 <jwf|w> It makes it so much easier to test, and we do not have to take the battle of regular composing ISOs ourselves.
16:20:00 <jwf|w> We also had the great support of the Respins SIG for catching bugs before the beta that would have cost us.
16:20:13 <jwf|w> jbwillia++
16:20:56 <jwf|w> #idea (+) Caught many bugs during Beta freeze and fixed problems before releases
16:21:14 <jwf|w> #idea (+) We have nightly ISO composes thanks to RelEng / Fedora QA!
16:21:37 <jwf|w> #idea (+) The Respins SIG helped us with lessons learned and experience on common bugs with making Spins from kickstarts
16:21:46 <jwf> jbwillia++
16:21:49 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for jbwillia changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:22:26 <andi89gi> yea I have also tested the respins -but SOAS , not i3 :D
16:22:32 <odilhao> We got a great feedback from Reddit and Fedora Magazine, if we ignore that part that ask why not Sway xD
16:22:36 <jwf|w> Any other shout-outs? Props?
16:22:43 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Nice :D
16:22:50 <jwf|w> odilhao: lolol!
16:23:11 <jwf|w> #idea (+) Great feedback from Reddit and Fedora Magazine, it helps to publish news there!
16:23:12 <andi89gi> jwf: SOAS tbh is "very very special" to be polite about this DE
16:23:47 <jwf|w> #info A common question we were asked us why not Sway.
16:24:04 <jwf|w> andi89gi: SOAS is a unique DE :)
16:24:19 <andi89gi> jwf: indeed it is! :)
16:24:26 <jwf|w> OK! So, positive shout-outs and kudos… going once!
16:24:40 <jwf|w> Going twice…
16:24:55 <jwf|w> And thrice.
16:25:08 <jwf|w> So, now let's think on what didn't work well, and what was painful
16:25:26 <jwf|w> I have said kickstart management a lot xD But I think that is known
16:25:49 <x3mboy> jbwillia++
16:25:50 <zodbot> x3mboy: Karma for jbwillia changed to 4 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:26:20 <jwf|w> #idea (–) Kickstarts are difficult to manage. We have different upstream versions (our Pagure repos) from downstream versions (RelEng composes and builds)
16:26:22 <x3mboy> People is mixing i3 with KDE
16:26:26 <x3mboy> For some reason
16:26:31 <x3mboy> That's weird
16:26:33 <jwf|w> x3mboy: lol really??
16:26:38 <odilhao> jwf|w for this particular point I did this today https://pagure.io/i3-sig/docs/c/e0580dad109515b27c51d621f90a470ba4988cbb?branch=main and https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/pull-request/57
16:26:40 <jwf|w> Where did you see that?
16:26:42 <x3mboy> Yes
16:26:43 * jwf|w clicks
16:26:43 <andi89gi> x3mboy: indeed this is weird lol
16:27:07 <x3mboy> The issue with mediawriter is solved
16:27:12 <x3mboy> That's great
16:27:26 <jwf> odilhao++ that docs patch is perfect
16:27:26 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for odilhao changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:27:28 <andi89gi> great!
16:27:40 <odilhao> jwf thanks
16:28:00 <jwf|w> I think that avoids most of the headache in managing our kickstarts. I am just wondering if we should keep anything in our Pagure repo at all.
16:28:55 <odilhao> jwf maybe only the docs repo, we could merge the README,md content there
16:29:20 <jwf|w> Don't be shy folks! Tell us what else was messy and bad in the last release cycle :D
16:29:46 <jwf|w> odilhao: We can use the Fedora-i3-Spin repo for issues and discussion, but we can update the README
16:29:50 <jwf|w> I think I can take that action item
16:30:02 <jwf|w> If we are on the same page about purging the kickstarts from the repo.
16:30:39 <x3mboy> Well, something that I get a lot is: It's just a vanilla install
16:30:54 <x3mboy> But we are already working in the new package that will include some customization
16:31:03 <jwf|w> I see that too
16:31:48 <jwf|w> #idea (–) Some advanced users were underwhelmed by the i3 Spin and that it was mostly vanilla i3. [Note: We are discussing a new package of default config changes.]
16:32:14 <jwf|w> One thing that got me sometimes was I felt it was hard to bring new folks in to contribute.
16:32:22 <x3mboy> From me, the only critical to solve is urxvt
16:32:30 <x3mboy> I really don't like it
16:32:45 <jwf|w> We have fine folks like andi89gi and many many others who joined the Telegram group in the past few months, but I know there were some times where I had a hard time pointing people to where they could help.
16:32:49 <jwf|w> I wonder how we could improve that?
16:32:54 <x3mboy> But I did a customization with a tool (let me look for it) and then it doesn't look that bad
16:33:03 <odilhao> x3mboy, the first thing that I do is dnf install gnome-terminal, I'm too old for urxvt
16:33:09 <jwf|w> x3mboy: Oof yes, same. Updating the terminal is a big one. I think we have momentum for alacritty or sakura
16:33:35 <jwf|w> #idea (–) urxvt was underwhelming as a default terminal. It was not the most aesthetically pleasing option.
16:33:51 <x3mboy> #link https://terminal.sexy/
16:33:57 <jwf|w> #idea (–) Sometimes it was hard to know where to point newcomers on how they could help us with the Spin
16:34:09 <x3mboy> Maybe we can use that to include a Fedora color scheme
16:34:41 <andi89gi> jwf: Normally, new users should start with Fedora Join SIG. Anyhow, if they join us directly on Telegram, IRC or Matrix. We might list up that they can start on checking docs, bugs, testings i3-respins etc.?
16:34:46 <jwf|w> It is possible, but I feel the same as odilhao that I am too old for urxvt XD
16:35:03 <x3mboy> I prefer kitty over alacritty
16:35:08 <odilhao> One thing that we can/need to do is a how-to/welcome guide
16:35:17 <x3mboy> Because it's more like tilix or terminator
16:35:24 <x3mboy> Improve the docs
16:35:29 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Good point. We could have a docs contributing guide that explains how to propose new articles or guides. We don't have that now.
16:36:21 <andi89gi> jwf: yep that would be a really good approach and guidance for new users/contributors
16:36:21 <jwf|w> #idea (–) Lack of a welcome guide / on-boarding steps for new contributors on how to get involved
16:36:47 <jwf|w> #idea (–) Need better guidance on how to propose new articles or guides in the Fedora i3 SIG documentation
16:37:09 <jwf|w> This is a helpful brainstorm!
16:37:22 <jwf|w> Any other negatives or pain points folks want to point out while we are discussing them?
16:37:36 <jwf|w> If not, we can wrap up and move to Nest 2021 planning.
16:37:44 <andi89gi> atm not
16:37:56 <jwf|w> x3mboy: That link is super handy! Haven't seen that before.
16:38:12 <x3mboy> Yes
16:38:24 <jwf|w> Last call for any positive/negative feedback on the F34 release cycle?
16:38:25 <jwf|w> #chair
16:38:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: andi89gi jwf jwf|w odilhao x3mboy
16:38:30 <jwf|w> Going once…
16:38:37 <x3mboy> Not from me
16:38:45 <jwf|w> Going twice…
16:39:00 <jwf|w> And thrice.
16:39:15 <jwf|w> #action jwf Summarize retrospective ideas into Pagure ticket #41 by next meeting
16:39:19 <jwf|w> #topic Nest 2021 planning
16:39:27 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Did you want to take the floor for this one?
16:39:35 <andi89gi> jwf: yep
16:39:43 <jwf|w> go for it!
16:41:32 <andi89gi> okay - so Fedora Nest will be hold this August due Covid19-pandemic online. My idea has been, if we should give a talk about our F34 i3-spin and maybe  future plans on F35?
16:41:43 <andi89gi> Like the talk on F34 release party
16:42:06 <jwf|w> Like a "State of the Spin" sort of talk? :)
16:42:26 <andi89gi> yea like this kind of :)
16:42:29 <jwf|w> cool!
16:42:42 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Were you interested in giving this talk on the i3 Spin?
16:42:56 <andi89gi> jwf: yep! ;)
16:43:05 <jwf|w> OK great!
16:43:22 <jwf|w> I think next steps are to narrow down ideas for what we present.
16:43:37 <andi89gi> yep some brain storming
16:43:52 <andi89gi> But maybe we can also use the slide from F34 release party?
16:44:15 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Could I give you an action to open an issue in the Pagure, and share some ideas on what topics to cover? Then we can use the ticket for brainstorming. https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/issues
16:44:31 <jwf|w> andi89gi: Was there a Fedora template used? I missed the presentation at the release party :(
16:45:30 <andi89gi> jwf: I can open an issue on pagure for brainstorming.
16:45:41 <andi89gi> jwf: yep there has been a slide
16:45:47 <andi89gi> I guess I have it somewhere
16:46:16 <jwf|w> We can track it down :)
16:46:25 <jwf|w> Thanks for taking that action.
16:46:43 <jwf|w> #action andi89gi Open a new Fedora-i3-Spin issue on Pagure about Nest 2021 session planning
16:47:10 <jwf|w> It might be cool to have a user testing session at Nest. But I admit I have not thought it through a lot yet.
16:47:47 <andi89gi> jwf: a good idea - you can add it on pagure ;)
16:48:01 <x3mboy> I got the slides
16:48:04 <x3mboy> Sorry
16:48:08 <x3mboy> I'm cross meeting at work
16:48:51 <andi89gi> https://pagure.io/i3-sig/Fedora-i3-Spin/issue/58
16:49:03 <jwf|w> andi89gi: I will!
16:49:16 <jwf> andi89gi++ thanks for opening that!
16:49:29 <jwf|w> x3mboy: the struggle is real :P  I know that feeling
16:49:49 <jwf|w> OK. I think we can use this next week to circle back on the tickets for follow-up
16:49:55 <jwf|w> Anything else to cover in the last ten minutes?
16:50:13 <andi89gi> jwf: pleasure!
16:50:21 <andi89gi> yep me again :D
16:50:22 <x3mboy> Me
16:50:31 <x3mboy> Open the floor
16:50:32 <jwf|w> andi89gi then x3mboy!
16:50:36 <jwf|w> #topic Open floor
16:51:55 <andi89gi> okay - well I want to discuss with you, if we want to have Fedora Silverblue with i3 - I have chatted with Timothee bc he's working on Fedora Kinoite and I am interested in maintaining other DE or especially Fedora Silverblue with i3.
16:52:06 <odilhao> I don't have anything for today
16:53:01 <x3mboy> I'm not interested in maintain the silverblue with i3, but wiling to help the one who wants to maintain it
16:53:17 <andi89gi> x3mboy: I would maintain it
16:53:27 <odilhao> andi89gi, Neal told me a while ago that a Silverblue i3 would not be optimal
16:53:49 <x3mboy> I think basically because of the base has Wayland
16:53:59 <odilhao> because how something would affect the compose, and that sway would be the logical move for silverblue
16:54:00 <andi89gi> odilhao: It has to be tested and checked. I am going to ask Timothee and Neal
16:54:40 <odilhao> andi89gi, Yesterday I was testing here on my CSB, base silverblue + rpm-ostree i3 and some packages
16:54:45 <odilhao> everything was working fine
16:55:03 <andi89gi> odilhao: sounds good actually+
16:55:23 <odilhao> the only thing that was not working was polybar, somehow my tray was broken, but I went back to our spin later in the night, and polybar was broken as well
16:55:31 <x3mboy> Go fot it, I think it could be a nice experiment
16:56:02 <andi89gi> Well, it will be a long-term aim. So, I guess we don't have to get stressed with it ;)
16:56:03 <odilhao> andi89gi, I'm also interest on trying silverblue, count with me to test
16:56:13 <andi89gi> odilhao: great!
16:56:39 <andi89gi> So, I may open up a wiki and change request like Timothee linked his one Kinoite
16:56:58 <andi89gi> IMO and for me it is important that we're working together
16:57:03 <andi89gi> and discuss it
16:57:58 <odilhao> andi89gi, we can use our package-group as base I think
16:58:43 <andi89gi> odilhao: ok, would be good then
16:59:04 <x3mboy> I have 2 minutes, so I will take the floor
16:59:09 <jwf|w> Sorry, was pulled away from keyboard
16:59:12 <jwf|w> x3mboy: go for it
16:59:31 <x3mboy> I was thinking if we should take the Gnome Tour app or build something from zero
16:59:48 <andi89gi> x3mboy: good idea!
16:59:57 <jwf|w> andi89gi: I think for i3 + Silverblue, it will be tricky for the reasons shared early. I think the SIG needs to focus on our Fedora Spin first and polish it, before we expand our offerings
17:00:06 <jwf|w> But happy to support efforts of others to do this!
17:00:09 <x3mboy> So, the initial app will have a mock up next week
17:00:24 <jwf|w> A mockup of what?
17:00:42 <x3mboy> But still not sure about the gnome app fork, because it looks like it will need some libs that we are not shipping
17:00:53 <andi89gi> jwf: I would only start and open a wiki and I agree that we have to polish and improve i3-spin first at all
17:01:03 <x3mboy> A mockup of the "i3 tour" app
17:01:05 <defolos> sorry folks, had to prepare supper…
17:01:08 <jwf|w> andi89gi: +1, sounds good to me.
17:01:15 <jwf|w> defolos: All good. Time zones are real!
17:01:18 <jwf|w> #chair defolos
17:01:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: andi89gi defolos jwf jwf|w odilhao x3mboy
17:01:26 <x3mboy> defolos: it's ok
17:01:30 <andi89gi> defolos: all ok :)
17:01:37 <andi89gi> jwf: thx!
17:01:37 <defolos> concerning silverblue + i3: I'm in
17:01:41 <jwf|w> x3mboy: I think it depends if we have some desktop developers with GTK, Qt, or whatever folks use for building front-end apps on the desktop
17:01:41 <defolos> I want that
17:01:56 <andi89gi> defolos: great thx for your support!
17:01:58 <jwf|w> Sounds like andi89gi and defolos have some chatting to do :D
17:01:58 <odilhao> Nice, we just need to find now the silverblue channel
17:02:21 <andi89gi> jwf: yea I guess :D
17:02:24 <defolos> also, about the welcome app: there's two options: either modifying gnome welcome or writing something with python tk
17:02:26 <jwf|w> x3mboy: I might defer that discussion to the next meeting. I think it will be hard to do now, and I have to jump to another meeting.
17:02:36 <defolos> 👌
17:02:36 <jwf|w> I'm going to go ahead and close out the meeting, but feel free to continue on the discussion.
17:02:38 <andi89gi> odilhao: I am in the channels here on IRC/Matrix
17:02:44 <jwf|w> Thanks all for coming, and see ya around!
17:02:45 <jwf|w> #endmeeting