06:02:44 <franciscod> #startmeeting
06:02:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Nov 22 06:02:44 2009 UTC.  The chair is franciscod. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:02:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:03:08 <franciscod> roll call for the log
06:03:17 <franciscod> Ankur Sinha
06:03:54 <sankarshan> Sankarshan
06:03:57 <jdk2588> hi ankur :)
06:03:57 <mbuf> Shakthi
06:04:00 <rakesh> Rakesh Pandit
06:04:03 <jdk2588> jaideep
06:04:10 <rtnpro> Ratnadeep Debnath
06:04:13 <rajeshr> Rajesh Ranjan
06:04:16 <kushal> Kushal Das
06:04:36 <kedars_> Kedar Sovani
06:04:50 <Pradipta> Pradipta Dash
06:05:29 <franciscod> eventhough everyone here's already done this before, for first timer's,please take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol
06:06:09 <franciscod> meetbot commands -> http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
06:06:34 <franciscod> #topic F12 release events
06:06:44 <yevlempy> Harsh Verma
06:07:12 <franciscod> i'll start, the lug here holds an install fest every semester
06:07:49 <franciscod> since F12's turned out to be such a blazing distro, there should be no trouble in convincing them to give out f12 this year
06:08:25 <franciscod> apart from that, I intend to hold a specific release event for f12, with the FAs here
06:08:59 <franciscod> there are 3-4 days left for this sem so all of this will be happening coming january..
06:09:10 <rakesh> ?
06:09:17 <franciscod> rakesh: yes?
06:09:22 <rakesh> where?
06:09:35 <franciscod> oops.. sorry, Manipal institute of tech, Manipal..
06:09:48 <rakesh> ok
06:10:08 <mbuf> ?
06:10:19 <franciscod> mbuf:
06:10:33 <mbuf> franciscod, could you tell for what Fedora is being used in the campus?
06:11:04 <franciscod> mbuf: its basically students using it on their laptops..
06:11:19 <mbuf> franciscod, doing what?
06:12:00 <franciscod> most of them for use it as a daily OS, people from the lug etc use it for whatever dev work we carry out.
06:12:08 <mbuf> franciscod, ok
06:12:09 <franciscod> s/we/they
06:12:42 <mbuf> franciscod, like, college programming work, e-mail, browsing, chatting, documentation etc. ?
06:12:47 <franciscod> i'm going to try and hold release events etc in the nearby area too, although i cant promise much on that front..
06:12:52 <franciscod> mbuf: mostly.
06:12:59 <mbuf> franciscod, ok, EOF
06:13:15 <franciscod> EOF
06:13:56 <franciscod> who'd like to go next? "!" please :)
06:14:14 <mbuf> !
06:14:28 <franciscod> mbuf: please go ahead
06:14:46 <mbuf> I am happy to see people using Fedora for their daily use, which is the first step
06:15:11 <mbuf> but, it will be good to see whatever work they possibly do to be made available for others as well
06:15:27 <mbuf> excluding internal college work, of course
06:15:43 <mbuf> simple things, like installation documents on specific hardware, server setups etc.
06:15:44 <franciscod> ?
06:15:49 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:15:52 <Pradipta> +1
06:16:11 <franciscod> some of it can be found on the lugmanipal wiki, ill update it and post to the list.
06:16:14 <mbuf> and all their blogs need to be aggregated to planet.fedoraproject.org
06:16:29 <mbuf> to begin with, all Fedora Ambassadors must have blogs, and they must be on the planet
06:16:35 <franciscod> ?
06:16:40 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:16:53 <kishan> err... I am a bit late, I guess
06:17:09 <franciscod> how do we make more out of the 112 even active? discuss this in openfloor?
06:17:11 <mbuf> franciscod, a local user group can independently have wiki, which is fine
06:17:37 <franciscod> kishan: full name for the log please?
06:17:48 <kishan> Kishan Goyal
06:17:49 <mbuf> franciscod, but, it will be helpful for Fedora specific blog content to be pushed to #fedora-india and the planet
06:18:04 <franciscod> !
06:18:09 <mbuf> franciscod, definition of 'active' varies between individuals
06:18:19 <mbuf> franciscod, people have different interests
06:18:21 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:18:34 <franciscod> we'll need a sortof filter to be able to push to the planet
06:18:42 <rakesh> +1
06:18:48 <Pradipta> +1
06:19:06 <kushal> !
06:19:21 <mbuf> kushal, yes
06:19:56 <kushal> franciscod, you can easily make your rss feeds based on Tags or categories
06:19:59 <kushal> <EOF>
06:20:23 <franciscod> kushal: okay, ill check that up and put it up somewhere for more people to see. thank you.
06:20:27 <franciscod> mbuf: !
06:20:32 <mbuf> this is an action point, AP #1, someone who has access to Fedora Ambassadors India list, need to take this forward
06:20:59 <mbuf> send an e-mail to the list after the meeting, ask people to provide their blog URLs, tell them how to add it to the planet feed
06:21:03 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:21:13 <franciscod> #action ill do it franciscod
06:21:14 <kushal> !
06:21:21 <franciscod> mbuf: i understand the varied definition, but as an ambassador, you have duties, you can be a contributor and not an ambassador, that's just fine too
06:21:22 <mbuf> franciscod, good!
06:21:44 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:21:46 <mbuf> kushal, yes
06:22:27 <mbuf> ok so AP #1 on franciscod to follow it up on updating FAs' blogs to planet feed, make sure people create blogs and inculcate the habit of sharing their experiences, if they haven't started doing it already
06:22:30 <kushal> mbuf, we generally ask people to add their blog themselves to the planet fedora, because to do so they must contribute to any other group within Fedora
06:22:56 <mbuf> kushal, FA is not sufficient?
06:23:17 <franciscod> ok so AP #1 on franciscod to follow it up on updating FAs' blogs to planet feed, make sure people create blogs and inculcate the habit of  sharing their experiences, if they haven't started doing it already
06:23:25 <franciscod> sorry
06:23:47 <mbuf> kushal, in which case, this will be for all contributors who haven't uploaded their blog
06:24:03 <kushal> mbuf, FA can get you fedorapeople account , which people can use to add their blog, but it is always nice to have them working in other groups
06:24:06 <mbuf> kushal, will it be better to file a ticket in fedora-india for this, so we can keep track of the action points?
06:24:16 <mbuf> kushal, ok
06:24:35 <kushal> mbuf, in fedora-india trac , only the requester can view the ticket details
06:24:47 <mbuf> kushal, ohh!
06:24:48 <kushal> mbuf, we can maintain a wiki page
06:24:58 <mbuf> kushal, sure
06:25:27 <franciscod> !
06:25:30 <mbuf> franciscod, yes
06:25:51 <kushal> mbuf, the reason for asking people to work on other project is mostly they don't do anything but still call themselves Fedora Ambassadors
06:25:54 <kushal> <EOF>
06:26:08 <franciscod> so i'm tasked with posting the method and checking on FAs/contributors to check their blog activity?
06:26:11 <franciscod> kushal: +1
06:26:43 <mbuf> franciscod, you don't need to check for blog activity, just make sure if they are contributors, they should add their blog to the planet
06:26:43 <rakesh> kushal: +1
06:27:02 <mbuf> kushal, we need to define who an FA is in that case
06:27:08 <franciscod> mbuf: a blog without posts doenst mean anything..
06:27:27 <franciscod> mbuf: can we keep the definition etc as a separate topic, current agenda is release parties :)
06:27:29 <mbuf> franciscod, we can see for activity for few months
06:27:55 <rakesh> franciscod: well even if no activity .. planet does not get effected.
06:28:01 <mbuf> franciscod, ok; I will take this after the discussion on release parties; since many are here, I thought we can have that discussion too
06:28:30 <franciscod> #agreed
06:28:54 <mbuf> franciscod, six months is lot of time to do some work; after which yum clean can be invoked, as done earlier
06:29:11 <mbuf> EOF
06:29:13 <franciscod> #idea added it to agenda: discussion on definition of a FA
06:29:50 <mbuf> someone wants to take the floor, please use "!"
06:30:48 <franciscod> jdk2588: any release parties planned :) ?
06:31:10 <jdk2588> yes it's in the store and we will be soon having it
06:31:45 <franciscod> jdk2588: please tell us about it, whatever you've planned, floor is yours
06:32:14 <jdk2588> ok I am a member of #lugb Bikaner
06:32:27 <jdk2588> and recently appointed fedora ambassador
06:32:36 <franciscod> jdk2588: a link to a wiki or blog? for lug bikaner?
06:33:09 <jdk2588> till now we had install fests at various campus hostels
06:34:00 <jdk2588> we just formed this lug twenty days ago
06:34:53 <franciscod> oh, okay.. good :) go on..
06:35:37 <franciscod> jdk2588: "?"
06:35:39 <jdk2588> the enthusiasm for FOSS is great !!
06:35:46 <jdk2588> yes franciscod
06:36:10 <franciscod> are any of the members there apart from you FOSS contributors? if yes, in what way?
06:36:57 <jdk2588> we have contributors for various organizations
06:37:19 <jdk2588> those who are members of lugb
06:37:40 <jdk2588> we have three gsoc students
06:37:57 <jdk2588> one from Sahana, Xiph, The NUI Group
06:38:20 <jdk2588> drupal, mozilla,
06:38:35 <jdk2588> we had a recent foss event
06:38:37 <jdk2588> also
06:39:31 <jdk2588> now what we are planning is to use Fedora full time ...that we are planiing
06:40:23 <jdk2588> we have even install fests at girls hostel
06:40:24 <Pradipta> jdk2588: Can you please specify the details of recent foss event.
06:40:30 <jdk2588> yes i share the link with you
06:40:34 <Pradipta> ?
06:41:14 <franciscod> jdk2588: please use #link <yourlink>
06:41:52 <jdk2588> #link http://sakshama.org/documents/foss_gn09_report.pdf
06:42:34 <jdk2588> we have skbohra who is a member of lugb and also GSoC student
06:42:34 <jdk2588> skbohra: !
06:48:12 <jdk2588> EOF
06:48:37 <franciscod> jdk2588: please also add a page for your install fest, it counts as a fedora event , reports, feedback and pictures etc would be good too
06:48:56 <jdk2588> ok
06:48:58 <franciscod> and oh, please dont forget to post to the list :)
06:49:29 <jdk2588> ok
06:49:33 <franciscod> anymore people with release parties planned? or install fests?
06:49:53 <Pradipta> Yes
06:50:04 <franciscod> Pradipta: proceed
06:50:17 <Pradipta> I have plans to migrate 100 desktops of Coal India to fedora12
06:50:26 <Pradipta> they are using windows xp
06:50:42 <franciscod> ?
06:50:56 <Pradipta> Currently I am in NCL
06:51:07 <Pradipta> MP
06:51:26 <Pradipta> So I am planning to migrate some desktop to fedora
06:51:52 <franciscod> will you be setting up a local mirror to aid in updates?
06:52:05 <Pradipta> yes
06:52:23 <Pradipta> And for this may be I will ask for help
06:52:51 <Pradipta> I am planning to do this within 10 days
06:53:33 <Pradipta> <EOF>
06:53:41 <franciscod> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Mirroring#How_can_someone_make_a_private_mirror.3F this might help, for starters
06:54:29 <franciscod> Pradipta: please post any queries to the list, we'll be glad to help. what work is going to be carried out on the systems btw?
06:55:52 <Pradipta> franciscod: It is end user desktop. basically work with ERP packages
06:56:00 <Pradipta> like SAP
06:57:04 <franciscod> okay, thank you..
06:57:05 <Pradipta> It may be a problem to migrate the SAP packages with fedora12
06:57:25 <franciscod> Pradipta: okay, im sure the lists will be able to tackle it..
06:57:48 <Pradipta> yes. I hope the samething
06:58:36 <franciscod> whose next? :)
06:59:40 <franciscod> if all the release parties are discussed, we can move to the next topic, is Sri Ramadoss here?
07:00:20 * sankarshan would be afk - but logged in.
07:00:31 <franciscod> he had an #idea about a tamil team,
07:00:54 <franciscod> okay, we'll skip the agenda since he's isn't here..
07:01:25 <franciscod> #info topic Tamil team skipped
07:01:39 <rakesh> +1, was he invited .. in case he does not logs in iRC
07:02:04 <franciscod> rakesh: he was, i sent a mail to the IRC to which he replied..
07:02:17 <franciscod> s/IRC/list :|
07:02:35 <rakesh> oh, ok nice .. lets postpone.
07:02:36 <franciscod> next agenda would be what we had just begun discussing.. fedora ambassadors..
07:02:59 <franciscod> #topic discussion on ambassadors
07:03:08 <Pradipta> Sure.
07:03:15 <franciscod> as i had posted to the list, #info there are 112 ambasadors from india..
07:03:26 <franciscod> more than any other country, needless to say.
07:03:51 <franciscod> as mbuf pointed out, people have different areas of interest,
07:04:33 <franciscod> however, i'd like to point out that being an ambassador is one of the ways you can contribute, with specific duties which should be carried out..
07:04:42 <franciscod> #agreed for agreed
07:04:49 <Pradipta> +1
07:05:25 <franciscod> mbuf: i had sent all the 112 personal emails asking them to join the list and try and be present at the meet
07:05:33 <Pradipta> #agreed
07:05:38 <mbuf> franciscod, what list?
07:05:55 <franciscod> mbuf: i requested them to join the fedora-india list
07:06:04 <mbuf> franciscod, requested whom?
07:06:28 <franciscod> the 112 people listed on the fedora india ambassador page..
07:07:04 <mbuf> franciscod, you are to tell them to put their blog to the planet
07:07:53 <mbuf> coming back to the definition of FA, a person who is participating in atleast one Fedora sub-project alone should become an FA
07:08:06 <franciscod> mbuf: yes, i'm saying that i already requested each of them using a personal email to try and be preent at the meet here today, and to join the list.
07:08:10 <mbuf> it could be documentation, or packaging, or anything
07:08:20 <mbuf> franciscod, that is not what we discussed
07:08:43 <franciscod> mbuf: i did that 5 days back, anyway, lets continue the discussion..
07:08:46 <mbuf> franciscod, ok
07:09:12 <franciscod> #idea definition of an FA : person participating in atleast one Fedora subproject
07:09:27 <rakesh> mbuf: you are confused with what was discussed today and what franciscod did before the meeting, anyway I think resolved now. :)
07:09:31 <mbuf> and mentoring should be for six months, and a person who is new to Fedora or F/OSS should take atleast one year of participation before they can become an FA
07:09:50 <franciscod> mbuf: use #idea or #info please
07:09:51 <mbuf> rakesh, it was just out of context :)
07:10:04 <mbuf> franciscod, I thought the floor was open for discussions
07:10:21 <franciscod> mbuf: yup, itll make the log easier to read :)
07:10:37 <rakesh> mbuf: one is too much
07:10:49 <franciscod> +1
07:11:06 <mbuf> rakesh, the reason being that newbies these days have big distractions, and we want committed people
07:11:19 <franciscod> even an ambassador who does his work regularly is okay..
07:11:34 <mbuf> rakesh, there are no short-cuts in life, and there is no fast track
07:11:37 <franciscod> by his work i mean active blogging, and spreading the word etc.
07:11:49 <mbuf> franciscod, no
07:11:54 <franciscod> duties of an ambassador..
07:11:57 <mbuf> franciscod, that is exactly not what I meant
07:12:05 <mbuf> franciscod, I said participate in any of the Fedora sub-projects
07:12:06 <franciscod> mbuf: please clarify?
07:12:22 <rakesh> mbuf: I would say .. let admins decide based on activities shown by new comer .. rather then this prolonged time. That is what FA guidelines also say.
07:12:39 <franciscod> mbuf: a fedora ambassador is not necessarily a contributor to one of the subprojects.
07:12:54 <mbuf> franciscod, IMO, it should be like that
07:12:58 <franciscod> duties of an ambassador mainly revolve around spreading the word.
07:13:05 <franciscod> rakesh: ^ view?
07:13:05 <mbuf> franciscod, about what?
07:13:11 <franciscod> mbuf: about fedora :)
07:13:26 <mbuf> franciscod, if people are not participating in any sub-project, they will not know about working in the group
07:13:27 <franciscod> release fests, publications,
07:13:33 <mbuf> franciscod, and thus have nothing to talk about in the first place
07:14:02 <Acedip> ah, when is the fedora-india meet scheduled in #fedora-meeting?
07:14:09 <mbuf> franciscod, that will fall under 'Marketing'
07:14:48 <franciscod> #idea yeah, then i guess a fedora ambassador should *atleast* be an active part of the marketing team
07:14:53 <rakesh> mbuf: I agree with participating in a group ... but I think that should be recommended not mandated.
07:14:54 <franciscod> Acedip: its on..
07:14:55 <mbuf> franciscod, that is correct
07:15:07 <mbuf> rakesh, why so?
07:15:26 <Acedip> ohk.cool, but i cant see anyone talking there.
07:15:28 <Pradipta> Rakesh: #agreed
07:15:37 <franciscod> jdk2588 skbohra please join in the discussion :)
07:15:45 <franciscod> Acedip: its here :)
07:15:50 <mbuf> rakesh, we don't want to end up with people not working with the project, but, claiming themselves to be part of
07:15:51 <Acedip> ah..
07:15:55 <skbohra> #agreed
07:16:11 <skbohra> @ franciscod
07:16:37 <Pradipta> !
07:16:39 <franciscod> and hence having long lists of people doing fundamentally nothing
07:16:41 <mbuf> rakesh, and if they don't participate in the group, and don't get the experience of working with people, if they happen to do just plain marketing, they could convey meanings totally opposite to the objectives of the group
07:16:41 <franciscod> Pradipta: yes?
07:16:55 <skbohra> mbuf: I think marketing is a important part
07:17:10 <Pradipta> I think everyone sld be an active member of marketing team
07:17:15 <mbuf> skbohra, but, they should work with the marketing sub-project, under the guidance of mentors
07:17:27 <skbohra> mbuf: #agreed
07:17:29 <rakesh> mbuf: yeah agreed .. in most idle world. But mandating may hinder people who may want to be very less active to start with and may become a major active volunteer in future.
07:17:30 <mbuf> Pradipta, not necessarily; some people may not be good speakers
07:17:39 <skbohra> results should be visible
07:17:53 <franciscod> skbohra: +1
07:18:02 <jdk2588> mbuf: I agree with mbuf that contribution is important !! but marketing can also be done ...infact by anyone
07:18:13 <mbuf> rakesh, mandatory is done to avoid trespassers who cannot be committed to the project
07:18:27 <mbuf> jdk2588, marketing should be done by people who know the subject
07:18:39 <mbuf> rakesh, and not wasting the time of people who are committed
07:18:44 <franciscod> jdk2588: is their own way yes, what we are saying is that the sufficient criterion would be to be a markting team member
07:18:49 <franciscod> to be an FA
07:18:55 <skbohra> we can look into mozilla campus ambassdaor to get idea
07:19:00 <Pradipta> So you want to say you don't know anything about fedora????????
07:19:18 <franciscod> Pradipta: knowing and speaking are different things.
07:19:25 <mbuf> franciscod, even in marketing, they should work closely with people who have done it before
07:19:27 <franciscod> and please limit the punctuation :)
07:19:38 <skbohra> +1
07:19:42 <franciscod> mbuf: yes, until they learn what and how to do it..
07:19:44 <rakesh> mbuf: I would say make a nice proposal and send it for discussion and whatever be the result send it to FEMSco for approval :)
07:19:53 <mbuf> franciscod, the last thing you want is inexperience people conveying wrong messages to newbies; and avoiding that is more important; prevention is better than cure
07:20:06 <mbuf> *inexperienced
07:20:08 <Acedip> franciscod: sorry to catch up late but we also have an install fest lined up on 25th Nov.
07:20:10 <Pradipta> #agreed
07:20:16 <franciscod> #idea make a nice proposal and send it for discussion and whatever be the result send it to FEMSco for approval
07:20:27 <jdk2588> +1
07:20:33 <franciscod> Acedip: oh.. we can take that after the current discussion :)
07:20:42 <mbuf> the problem with newbies is that they are excited, but, they lack direction and focus and experience
07:20:47 <franciscod> +1
07:20:51 <franciscod> been there, done that :)
07:20:53 <Acedip> franciscod: sure.
07:21:02 <Pradipta> +1
07:21:12 <skbohra> the thing that worked here was, we set an example  ourself , people get attracted
07:21:23 <franciscod> mbuf: isnt compulsary mentoring already in place?
07:21:25 <jdk2588> +1 skbohra
07:21:35 <mbuf> franciscod, yes, it was good that it happened
07:21:40 <franciscod> skbohra: people get attracted to the "title" of FA, not the work they are supposed to carry out..
07:21:51 <mbuf> franciscod, #agreed
07:22:01 <rakesh> but you cannot do much about it. Giving a hand or pulling them in some direction without there volunteer decision does not show much results, that is the way I see it.
07:22:03 <franciscod> mbuf: that will help weed out "not so interested" people
07:22:04 <skbohra> I mean attracted by fedora people, how cool they are ;)
07:22:12 <franciscod> rakesh: +1
07:22:28 <franciscod> rakesh: if they arent interested themselves, we can drop them..
07:22:37 <mbuf> the problem is marketing and technical work are two ends of a spectrum, and it is hard for someone to scale from one end to another
07:22:40 <franciscod> and be able to say "he did not work"
07:22:57 <skbohra> we had all our events on fedora laptops and desktops,  giving example of how things work great on fedora
07:23:06 <franciscod> mbuf: so we can keep it separate, there are a lot of people who contribute by only spreading the word etc. not technically.
07:23:23 <mbuf> franciscod, the point is, they shouldn't waste our time, and that is why one year is utmost good enough to learn to work with people, to get the experience, and be a test of their commitment, for newbies
07:23:41 <franciscod> mbuf: for example, the [in the news] trend on fedora-ambassadors list.
07:23:54 <rakesh> can everything be some goal based. Say an FA decides what he wants to do and then gives reasons for what he did and what he did not and why sort of ?
07:24:02 <mbuf> franciscod, the real question, is not telling people
07:24:05 <franciscod> rakesh: +1
07:24:18 <mbuf> franciscod, it is whether they follow it up, and people actually start using it
07:24:24 <jdk2588> we can set some target for a FA
07:24:29 <mbuf> franciscod, for us, the aftermath is more important than just conveying the message
07:24:38 <franciscod> mbuf: you mean results right?
07:24:44 <mbuf> franciscod, yes!
07:24:45 <franciscod> rakesh: view ^ ?
07:24:55 <franciscod> mbuf: +1 i agree with that part..
07:24:57 <mbuf> franciscod, if people end up using it, it is great!
07:25:09 <franciscod> jdk2588: +1
07:25:28 <franciscod> #idea set a goal template for a new FA to accomplish..
07:25:33 <mbuf> franciscod, but, one cannot also force F/OSS on to people; so there is a thin line to be drawn between the objectives
07:25:45 <jdk2588> and the targets should be met within that span of time
07:26:05 <franciscod> mbuf: no forcing, they need to do an install fest or two, increases awareness and atleast some people will stick :)
07:26:06 <mbuf> jdk2588, targets should not be defined; participation should alone be counted
07:26:10 <mbuf> jdk2588, we are not doing business here
07:26:15 <franciscod> +1 :D
07:26:17 * rakesh on call
07:26:29 <mbuf> franciscod, atleast make sure that some people follow the traditions
07:27:13 <Pradipta> #agreed
07:27:15 <franciscod> mbuf: out of the entire list of people attending, there will be some who will be interested
07:27:20 <mbuf> franciscod, there have been user groups that have become extinct, because the juniors were not interested, or the enthusiastic seniors have not made sure that things have continued to move on, over the years
07:27:32 <mbuf> franciscod, not a guarantee, but, a possibility
07:27:52 <franciscod> okay, lets take it this way,
07:28:19 <franciscod> if there's atleast even one person whose interested, "nuturing" him would be counted as an "accomplishment"
07:28:28 <mbuf> franciscod, sure
07:28:45 <franciscod> we cant really have hard fast rules for this,
07:28:50 <Pradipta> franciscod, sure
07:28:57 <mbuf> franciscod, because there is lot of 'free advice' in India, people tend to do marketing easily
07:29:09 <jdk2588> mbuf I agree not a business ..but if a responsibility has been taken then it should be fulfilled
07:29:09 <mbuf> franciscod, but, the problem comes, whether their content is right or not
07:29:12 <skbohra> +1 :D
07:29:35 <franciscod> hmm.. its about more newbies learning to be accountable
07:29:43 <mbuf> franciscod, and the real question is how do you measure a FA when working on a 'marketing' sub-project; other sub-projects can show code, spec files, or even documentation
07:29:54 <franciscod> so you can ask them "what have you been upto"
07:30:00 <mbuf> franciscod, sure
07:30:33 <skbohra> our mozilla firefox campus ambassador is one who never uses ff :(
07:30:40 <jdk2588> lol
07:30:46 <skbohra> this thing sucks
07:30:51 <franciscod> #idea give them a period of say 3-4 months, then  they submit a "what have i been upto" report to the list, and we vote?
07:31:02 <skbohra> #agreed
07:31:02 <jdk2588> +1 franciscod
07:31:03 <Pradipta> :-D
07:31:16 <franciscod> #idea the report *must* contain references/event reports
07:31:29 <franciscod> dont need to vote actually, the mentors can do the "marking"
07:31:32 <mbuf> franciscod, we are not the only people who should vote;
07:31:42 <franciscod> mbuf: ^ ? rakesh ^ ?
07:31:45 <mbuf> franciscod, the audience or the people receiving them should also give us feedback
07:32:11 <franciscod> mbuf: feedback doesnt have accountability..
07:32:21 <mbuf> franciscod, when it comes from different sources, yes
07:33:19 * rakesh back
07:33:21 <franciscod> please throw more ides in, and use the #idea tag :)
07:33:27 <mbuf> when it comes from different sources, it has accountability
07:33:30 * franciscod waits for rakesh to read up
07:33:44 <franciscod> mbuf: how would we implement that?
07:34:03 <franciscod> "#fedora-spy" ;)
07:34:16 <mbuf> franciscod, for every marketing event, a mentor has to be there to see how things are progressing
07:34:28 <mbuf> franciscod, and it has to be reviewed periodically
07:34:33 <franciscod> mbuf: dont you think that'll be *hard* on the mentors?
07:34:52 <mbuf> franciscod, as I said, prevention is better than cure
07:35:01 <skbohra> #idea video testimonials
07:35:08 <franciscod> #idea mentors assign people they "trust" folks who are nearby, and already proven contributors
07:35:15 <rakesh> it will be too hard
07:35:19 <franciscod> skbohra: whose testimonial is the problem
07:35:31 <franciscod> rakesh: +1 alternate idea?
07:35:32 <skbohra> its of the participants
07:35:53 <mbuf> franciscod, you seriously don't want newbies doing marketing presentations, talking out of context, and giving the wrong impression to other newbies
07:35:55 <franciscod> skbohra: my friends would tel you it was great even if i couldnt install a single machine
07:36:01 <mbuf> franciscod, we must avoid that at all levels
07:36:11 <franciscod> mbuf: yes
07:36:14 <skbohra> franciscod : :)
07:36:27 <mbuf> franciscod, that is why mentors with experience, should review the feedback from students, periodically
07:36:40 <mbuf> franciscod, that way, the students get the experience and become mentors
07:36:44 <franciscod> #idea before a newbie does an event, he goes through an unofficial "what are you going to say" review..,
07:36:50 <mbuf> yes, it helps us get more mentors over time, the right way
07:36:56 <skbohra> #idea: we can provide slides, videos to be used for presenation
07:37:01 <mbuf> skbohra, sure
07:37:05 <franciscod> skbohra: +1
07:37:24 <skbohra> it will increase level of presentation to some uniform standard
07:37:28 <franciscod> mbuf: how will mentors review feedback forms from students?
07:37:45 <franciscod> and which students? ie whose the source ?
07:38:13 <mbuf> franciscod, based on student participation in the Fedora sub-project, or they can write to the mentors or something like feedback@fedora-india e-mail address or something like that
07:38:22 <mbuf> franciscod, the attendees of the event
07:38:42 <franciscod> #idea make a wiki page to collect updated slides on installing etc for events
07:38:51 <mbuf> franciscod, sure, anonymous feedback will be ignored
07:38:58 <franciscod> mbuf: could be implemented
07:39:00 <rakesh> I am not sure ... whether this is a good idea to do any review here. We should just encourage the discussion around "what one is going to speak about and what one expects" rather then saying .. one cannot speak unless he passes a review. progress cannot be achieved via controlling things .. we should rather try to do and encourage progressive todo .. not sure whether I am clear
07:39:03 <skbohra> #idea provide a feedback url to be told after each event , for the participants to fill
07:39:37 <franciscod> rakesh: a little more clarity would help.. example?
07:39:46 <mbuf> rakesh, there is no 'passing' a review; it is just a measure to review whatever is proposed to be done
07:40:00 <rakesh> mbuf: then it is fine.
07:40:12 <skbohra> each event page must have a feed back url
07:40:20 <mbuf> rakesh, it could be as simple as sending an e-mail to fedora-india mailing list, asking people for comments
07:40:24 * rakesh missed lot of discussion so pardon me :(
07:40:45 <rakesh> mbuf: yeps right, +1
07:40:46 <franciscod> rakesh: thats why i was waiting for you to read up :)
07:42:06 <franciscod> #idea create a feedback channel
07:42:06 <franciscod> would just an email address be sufficient?
07:42:06 <mbuf> FAs should act as bridges between field work, and Fedora, while, still keeping the communication open to all on IRC and mailing lists
07:42:06 * rakesh is too lazy
07:42:06 <mbuf> but, these are only suggestions, IMO;
07:42:06 <franciscod> #idea regular meets
07:42:07 <franciscod> #idea on the IRC or list or physical presence (best)
07:42:08 <jdk2588> franciscod: +1
07:42:10 <rakesh> franciscod: once in 2 weeks
07:42:16 <rakesh> at least
07:42:25 <franciscod> rakesh: i had tried to implement that.. utter failure :(
07:42:44 <franciscod> but we can give it a better try this time, since we have work cut out for us.
07:42:44 <mbuf> franciscod, it takes time, and patience is required
07:42:51 <rakesh> yeah
07:43:01 <franciscod> #idea fedora-india meet every fortnight
07:43:11 <mbuf> franciscod, #agreed
07:43:30 <kishan_> #agreed
07:43:39 <franciscod> agenda will be to discuss with newbies and make them understand what to say at a fedora event etc?
07:43:48 <franciscod> folks views ^^ ?
07:43:57 <franciscod> that is apart from our work :)
07:44:21 <franciscod> informal questioning on an event, discussion of feedback received ?
07:45:05 <mbuf> IMO, when requesting for a Fedora event or organizing one at campus, it will be good to get Fedora people working in the Industry
07:45:21 <franciscod> please elaborate
07:45:33 <mbuf> it helps Management and faculty, that it is not just some students doing some work, and there is some visibility and scope for work as well
07:45:53 <mbuf> it has to be a collaborative effort between students, and Industry people
07:46:05 <franciscod> +1 but difficult to implement..
07:46:20 <mbuf> 1. it gives some branding 2. Management and faculty see some interest from outsiders
07:46:30 <mbuf> franciscod, why?
07:46:42 <skbohra> it may increase the cost of the event
07:46:46 <franciscod> whose going to be the industry person going down?
07:46:47 <skbohra> expenditure
07:46:47 <franciscod> skbohra: +1
07:46:54 <jdk2588> every time we organize where we will get industry people
07:46:58 <franciscod> +1
07:47:00 <mbuf> skbohra, have to look at people close to your place
07:47:01 <franciscod> mbuf: ^
07:47:01 <kishan_> +1
07:47:06 <mbuf> skbohra, where are you from?
07:47:10 <skbohra> Bikaner
07:47:19 * jdk2588 too from Bikaner
07:47:19 <mbuf> skbohra, you can work closely with #lug-jaipur people
07:47:34 * franciscod has only college folk in the LUG
07:48:16 <skbohra> yes we are
07:48:16 <mbuf> skbohra, and people from Delhi can easily come to your place
07:48:16 <skbohra> mbuf: there is no flight
07:48:16 <mbuf> skbohra, so what?
07:48:16 <skbohra> and it was tough for us to convince
07:48:16 <mbuf> skbohra, ok
07:48:16 <skbohra> we had some bad experience with tihis
07:48:16 <mbuf> skbohra, sorry to hear that
07:48:30 <franciscod> its difficult to have an "industry person" down every time..
07:48:37 <mbuf> franciscod, skbohra atleast once in a while it must be done
07:48:42 <skbohra> yes!
07:48:47 <jdk2588> +1
07:48:50 <franciscod> mbuf: you might be happy to do it but you cant expect everyone to feel the same..
07:48:57 <mbuf> franciscod, when you are within your college, you sometimes need to get exposure from outside
07:49:01 * rakesh needs to go now - brunch time =)
07:49:07 <skbohra> it can be doen when organizing a complete foss event
07:49:11 <franciscod> rakesh: we're going to go too.. :)
07:49:12 <skbohra> done*
07:49:20 <mbuf> franciscod, we will work that out
07:49:40 <franciscod> on the list maybe, see what mether sankarshan susmit have to say about it
07:50:09 <franciscod> okay, work first, who takes responsiblity of the feedback?? :)
07:50:37 <mbuf> franciscod, feedback for events, should come from interested people to the mailing list or on IRC
07:50:49 <mbuf> *from events
07:51:07 <franciscod> i mean whose going to put this up on a page or something? and inform people about its existence..
07:51:23 * franciscod thinks we'll need to discuss the idea on the list too..
07:51:26 <franciscod> before we begin
07:51:28 <mbuf> franciscod, sure
07:51:53 <franciscod> #action franciscod discussion thread on list regarding feedback
07:52:25 <skbohra> create a common template for this
07:52:28 <franciscod> all this can be done with the follow up to the meet on the list itself..
07:52:37 <franciscod> skbohra: meaning?
07:52:49 <skbohra> the feedback form  template ,
07:52:56 <mbuf> skbohra, template not required; leave it to the people giving feedback
07:53:02 <skbohra> ok !
07:53:07 <mbuf> skbohra, let them write however they want;
07:53:14 <franciscod> mbuf: may be sort of a guide, what we would like to know ?
07:53:16 <mbuf> skbohra, it should be honest
07:53:29 <mbuf> franciscod, nah! we shouldn't hint
07:53:35 <skbohra> :P
07:53:36 <franciscod> not mandatory template, just a page saying, please include this etc?
07:54:03 <franciscod> actually, the feedback form announcement itself will be good enough..
07:54:04 <mbuf> franciscod, sometimes it is left best for people to describe what they feel
07:54:12 <franciscod> +1
07:54:27 <skbohra> FA's must be smarth enough uh !
07:54:34 <franciscod> haha..
07:54:50 <franciscod> okay.. i think we've discussed out some good points that ill present to the list shortly,,
07:54:53 * skbohra need to fix his keyboard
07:55:01 <franciscod> Acedip: still here?
07:55:03 <sm|CPU> Not smart enough, just smart enough to know that there is much to learn
07:55:45 <franciscod> Acedip: if you are, we could take 5 mins to read about your event plans?
07:56:05 <franciscod> sm|CPU: have you been reading the entire discussion? any comment?
07:56:17 <kushal> franciscod, ask sankarshan :)
07:56:26 <kushal> oh , he is here
07:56:45 <sm|CPU> franciscod: I was reading through the scrollback. I'd wait for the points to be on the mailing list
07:56:50 <franciscod> kushal: you dint say anything about the FA thing?
07:56:53 * sm|CPU had a general observation though
07:57:00 <franciscod> sm|CPU: sure, ill have ti up there by tonight..
07:57:15 <franciscod> sm|CPU: general observation = ? :)
07:57:28 <kushal> franciscod, never read all the things here (busy with cooking )
07:57:37 <sm|CPU> The FAs who had organized release parties or install fests during F11, might also want to think of how to go beyond just these activities
07:57:49 <franciscod> kushal: okay, we'll wait for your comments on the list then..
07:58:13 <franciscod> sm|CPU: you mean FADs etc?
07:58:38 <sm|CPU> franciscod: Yes. It should mean more involvement and engagement
07:58:38 <kushal> franciscod, can you just tell once more what is FA thing ?
07:59:36 <franciscod> kushal: we're trying to find a way to make sure people who sign up as FAs do some work which we can measure as progress, rather than just join up because its very cool :)
07:59:53 <sm|CPU> :)
08:00:13 <franciscod> sm|CPU: fads etc require a certain involvement, uhm "level" if you want to call it, from the audience too..
08:00:16 <kushal> franciscod, oh :)
08:00:27 <franciscod> thats a hurdle..
08:00:35 <kishan_> +1
08:00:43 <kushal> brb
08:00:54 <franciscod> basically why im stuck on install fests here..
08:00:55 <sm|CPU> franciscod: Indeed. But if there have been events during the F11 cycle, that should have given a ~6 month window
08:01:25 <franciscod> its like what mbuf said, difficult to keep there excitement going,
08:01:43 <sm|CPU> It is just a thought, I see a lot of good install fests never turning into sustained activities - the "I am working on this" stuff blogs or mails
08:01:57 <franciscod> +1
08:02:19 <sankarshan> It is something that we need to look into and plan for.
08:02:24 <franciscod> difficult to find people who'd do stuff on their own once you give them a fedora systm..
08:02:37 <sankarshan> Not today perhaps. But keeping this at the back of the mind to work upon should keep the issue open
08:02:57 <sankarshan> :) I realize that. That is why I said, it was a general observation, not a gripe.
08:03:09 <franciscod> #idea discussion of "It is just a thought, I see a lot of good install fests never turning into sustained activities - the "I am working on this" stuff blogs or  mai
08:03:17 <franciscod> :)
08:03:29 <franciscod> anyway, anyone else have another agenda? else i can close :) ?
08:03:51 * franciscod waits for 3 mins
08:03:51 <sankarshan> !
08:03:59 <franciscod> sankarshan: hehe.. yes..
08:04:34 <sankarshan> I'd like to thank you for calling this meeting and, shepherding it through. That is most appreciated. I just wanted to record that. <EOF>
08:04:57 <franciscod> sankarshan: ah, my pleasure, thank you :)
08:05:24 <franciscod> #endmeeting