06:04:28 <susmit> #startmeeting
06:04:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Mar 21 06:04:28 2010 UTC.  The chair is susmit. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:04:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:04:38 <susmit> #chair franciscod
06:04:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: franciscod susmit
06:04:49 <susmit> #rollcall
06:05:12 <susmit> #topic rollcall
06:05:19 <susmit> who is here?
06:05:24 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
06:06:00 <rtnpro> Ratnadeep Debnath
06:06:04 <yevlempy> Harsh Verma aka yevlempy
06:06:13 <AnujMore> Anuj More (just listening)
06:06:24 <franciscod> sorry,
06:06:26 <franciscod> am here
06:06:29 <franciscod> Ankur Sinha
06:06:41 <franciscod> #chair _sankarshan
06:06:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: _sankarshan franciscod susmit
06:06:44 <zer0c00l> Arun SAG
06:07:02 <susmit> anyone else?
06:07:08 <dash123> R dhushyanth
06:07:27 <susmit> dash123, nice to see you :)
06:07:35 <susmit> anyone else?
06:07:40 <franciscod> waiting two minutes for roll call, then we'll proceed to the main agenda :)
06:08:02 <susmit> franciscod, _sankarshan is a away...and don't wait..proceed. No point loosing time.
06:08:31 <franciscod> #topic FUDCon India
06:08:51 <susmit> franciscod, take over..you are the lead.
06:09:02 <franciscod> okay
06:09:16 <franciscod> some links that i'd request everyone to keep open before themselves, for refernce
06:09:20 <franciscod> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_design
06:09:30 <franciscod> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/Organization
06:09:52 <franciscod> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
06:10:02 <franciscod> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Proposal_Process
06:10:48 <franciscod> ill begin with the last link, since it ha the process in bullet form , easier to manage
06:11:03 <franciscod> we cant discuss much of it yet,
06:11:13 <franciscod> but we can decide on a list of cities for the event
06:11:16 <franciscod> any proposals?
06:11:23 <susmit> !
06:11:32 <franciscod> susmit: floors yours
06:12:32 <mether> I am here
06:12:43 <franciscod> mether: :)
06:12:54 <franciscod> #chair mether
06:12:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: _sankarshan franciscod mether susmit
06:13:47 <franciscod> susmit: here?
06:13:52 <yevlempy> franciscod, i think pune or banglore can be good option as far as cities for event are concerned.
06:14:03 * zer0c00l agrees with yevlempy
06:14:15 * zer0c00l prefers bangalore
06:14:29 <franciscod> yevlempy: noted, susmit has the floor, lets let him finish (start) ;)
06:14:41 <franciscod> #idea venue -> pune bangalore
06:14:54 <yevlempy> ok cool
06:15:08 * franciscod thinks susmit lost connection :(
06:15:54 <franciscod> he can speak when he gets here, lets continue
06:16:02 <mether> So let me add a few quick notes till Susmit returns
06:16:14 <franciscod> mether: floors yours
06:16:39 <mether> The biggest cost for any FUDCon can be a venue for the conference and travel
06:17:06 <mether> Typically we have arranged for venue with some college or educational institution willing to host us at zero cost.
06:17:10 <mether> or low cost
06:18:00 <mether> As far as travel is concerned,  Red Hat's engineering team is in Pune and it would help cut down on travel costs if Pune is the place
06:18:16 <franciscod> #agree
06:18:29 <franciscod> #agreed
06:18:29 <yevlempy> ok
06:18:37 <zer0c00l> mether: ok
06:18:55 <mether> If anyone here is suggesting Bangalore,  can you get us a venue without costing us a bomb? That is priority #1
06:19:33 <mether> If we are planning to invite international speakers, we need to plan atleast a quarter in advance.
06:19:44 * yevlempy agrees with mether
06:20:03 <mether> so we are looking at post June or July at the earlier
06:20:22 <mether> So with all that in mind, continue
06:20:22 <yevlempy> yup
06:20:32 <franciscod> the #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process#FUDcon_Team_General_Planning_Schedule
06:20:35 <franciscod> says 12 mo,
06:20:42 <franciscod> does that stand for 12 months?
06:20:51 <franciscod> mether: ^ ?
06:20:58 <mether> Not sure about that.
06:21:28 <franciscod> okay, moving on
06:21:43 <franciscod> mether: what would the venue in Pune be?
06:21:45 <mether> The point about giving more time is to propose a budget and getting it approved from Red Hat.
06:21:56 <franciscod> mether: SICSR?
06:22:11 <mether> Symbiosis is one place to look at, yes. They are likely to be willing to host us
06:22:24 <franciscod> #idea venue Pune SICSR
06:23:04 <mether> It has the advantage of reducing travel for a good number of folks including me
06:23:18 <mether> If there are other potential venues, do let me know
06:23:42 <franciscod> #task all make list of potential venues
06:24:06 * yevlempy noted
06:24:07 <franciscod> mether: what else do we need to be aware of before discussing this at the TownHall?
06:24:10 <mether> The venue should include a few different rooms, not be far from city and should have wireless internet
06:24:24 <mether> MUST have wireless internet
06:24:38 <franciscod> good wireless internet :)
06:24:43 <yevlempy> mether, does SICSR has that?
06:24:53 <mether> yes
06:24:54 <franciscod> yevlempy: yes, we were there for GNUnify 2010
06:24:59 <susmit_> franciscod, did I miss anything?
06:25:03 <susmit_> please pm me
06:25:03 <yevlempy> cool
06:25:10 <franciscod> #link http://gnunify.in/
06:25:57 <zer0c00l> !
06:26:13 <franciscod> zer0c00l: yep?
06:26:50 <zer0c00l> Fudcon will be for 2days?
06:27:04 <zer0c00l> i mean , how many days its going to be?
06:27:06 <susmit_> !
06:27:20 <zer0c00l> i am sorry i didn't read the manual/wiki
06:28:05 <franciscod> susmit_: floors yours
06:28:07 <susmit_> I think you missed the point I raised..I got disconnected...let me paste it here.
06:28:10 <susmit_> look...at this point, nobody needs to think about the organizational stuffs..they are very easy to fix...venue/travel/lodging/food..they are trivial and will be well taken care off...instead focus on the topic..what is the _exceptional_ stuff that you want to do there...what is it that will make a difference inside and outside a fedora?
06:29:01 <franciscod> some activities need to be focussed around puling in new contributors
06:29:43 <susmit_> any concrete proposal?
06:30:03 <franciscod> cant say concrete yet
06:30:24 * yevlempy we can have bug fixing or hacking sessions.
06:30:32 <susmit_> franciscod, but you have something in mind...it is fine to tell is :)
06:30:38 <franciscod> the various teams will use the FUDCon to get together and work on projects that theyre doing at the  time
06:30:38 <susmit_> s/is/us
06:30:38 <mether> zer0c00l, to answer you. typically it is two or three days but there isn't a rigid rule about that
06:30:56 <franciscod> im sure the marketing etc teams will have stuff
06:31:05 * susmit_ wants a month long fudcon ;)
06:31:16 <AnujMore_> franciscod: Get college guys in. You can find a certain pop that hates Microsoft... Bugfixing and hacking sessions is a good idea.
06:31:30 <franciscod> susmit_: from the turnout at the RPM packaging at gnunify, i learnt that packaging isnt right as step 1 ;)
06:31:35 <franciscod> AnujMore_: noted
06:31:43 <franciscod> #idea get new people from various colleges
06:31:45 <susmit_> what is *hacking* session?
06:32:00 <franciscod> AnujMore_: yevlempy : please elaborate on hacking sessions,
06:32:06 <zer0c00l> mether: ok
06:32:06 <franciscod> with examples if possible
06:32:23 <franciscod> for those who are looking at potential venues, please add them here
06:32:28 <franciscod> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations#Asia.2FPacific
06:32:29 <AnujMore_> I think that is where you show how the system really works. We had a few (boring) hacking sessions during our college fest
06:32:34 <franciscod> the wiki has a separate page for it :)
06:33:02 <franciscod> AnujMore_: you'll need to elaborate on "how the system really works"
06:33:04 <AnujMore_> Our college loves RHEL for some reason. My college may co-operate (cant say, but there is a huge chance it will)
06:33:15 <franciscod> are you referring to the community structure and functioning? or the OS?
06:33:48 <yevlempy> susmit, franciscod  kinda getting things to work upon or to be particular fixing bugs fedora specific
06:33:57 <AnujMore_> franciscod: Its an engg college. They dont teach management. So it is OS.
06:34:18 <franciscod> yevlempy: so one would be bugfixing,
06:34:42 <franciscod> using these?
06:34:45 <franciscod> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StackTraces
06:34:45 <franciscod> etc?
06:34:54 <franciscod> how bugzilla functions, bugs life cycle etc?
06:35:27 <franciscod> AnujMore_: how would you like to go about teaching people how the fedora OS works?
06:35:29 <yevlempy> franciscod, and as you mentioned contributors can get there hands on packaging and stuff
06:35:48 <susmit_> AnujMore_, community structure is not related to management...there are so many teams behind for making fedora disk available..they have there own works, and each team can be asubject to a score of  fudcons..if not more. :)
06:35:49 <franciscod> yevlempy: okay
06:36:15 <franciscod> #idea possible workshops -> bug related, packaging,
06:36:28 <AnujMore_> start off with introduction... on how we can have substitutes for the prop softwares
06:36:42 <franciscod> AnujMore_: run the /whois command on my nice, youll see how many channels for the different teams im at
06:36:46 <franciscod> s/nice/nick
06:36:48 <susmit_> AnujMore_, fudcon is *not* an end user session...
06:36:50 <AnujMore_> Make people feel guilty that they use _stolen_ software
06:37:03 <franciscod> AnujMore_: thats not really the idea of a FUDCon
06:37:13 <susmit_> AnujMore_, it is more of a developer/contributor conference.
06:37:20 <yevlempy> franciscod, we can have hands on artwork too in fudcon
06:37:57 <franciscod> yevlempy: would it be better to categorize it as "provide base for different team members to work together physically"
06:38:01 <franciscod> susmit_: ^ ?
06:38:03 <franciscod> mether: ^ ?
06:38:04 <AnujMore_> susmit_: the topic somehow changed to reach in colleges. That is what I was talking about. I missed a part of the discussion to disconnection.
06:38:17 <susmit_> AnujMore_, oh..ok
06:38:25 <mether> While FUDCon is open for everyone, it is primarily a opportunity for existing contributions to get stuff done. Not squarely end user focused
06:38:36 <yevlempy> franciscod, yup cool
06:38:45 <AnujMore_> mether: noted.
06:39:04 <franciscod> its always good to get together with your fellow contributors and work together in one place,
06:39:10 <franciscod> even if its only for a few days
06:39:22 <franciscod> :)
06:39:47 <franciscod> #idea provide sufficient space for various teams to get their people together and work
06:39:53 <susmit_> would it be better if we lookout and list the things that need immediate improvement? That way we would know what to focus on..
06:39:55 <AnujMore_> So that college thing is more like the GNUnify stuff?
06:40:20 <franciscod> susmit_: yeah, please begin listing , we'll add
06:40:36 <susmit_> franciscod, the other way... ;)
06:40:40 * yevlempy agrees with susmit
06:40:44 <franciscod> AnujMore_: conferences on FOSS etc
06:41:06 <franciscod> even foss.in wasnt concentrated on end users and explaining foss, it was more about "getting work done" ;)
06:41:21 <franciscod> immediate improvement?
06:41:42 <franciscod> well, the package review queue is always looong, mether can comment more on that
06:42:10 <franciscod> susmit_: i saw your email to a potential ambassador who hadnt done the work, good to see the system in place :)
06:42:16 <susmit_> that would be nice....for fedora-medical, if we can get some packaging done as well..
06:42:20 <zer0c00l> franciscod: valid point , we have to do something about package review
06:42:37 <zer0c00l> Not just packaging
06:42:38 <susmit_> franciscod, on topic please.
06:42:41 <franciscod> fedora-medical should definitely have *at least* one session
06:42:58 <franciscod> #idea fedora-medical - getting work done
06:43:13 <franciscod> susmit_: what tasks does medical require?
06:43:22 <franciscod> 1- packages
06:43:23 <susmit_> mostly packaging..
06:43:39 <zer0c00l> what is fedora-medical ?
06:43:41 <franciscod> susmit_: is it going to have special artwork? logos et all?
06:43:43 * zer0c00l googles
06:44:10 <franciscod> zer0c00l: /join #fedora-medical, see /topic
06:44:24 <susmit_> franciscod, yes, if people steps up, then that will be fine too
06:44:50 <franciscod> #idea artwork for fedora-medical
06:45:05 <franciscod> hiemanshu isnt here, he could pitch in about the security sig too
06:45:20 <franciscod> Shrink: dorrie at FUDCon?
06:45:39 * franciscod would like to have some sort of session on fedora-tour, depending on what stage the project is at
06:45:42 <franciscod> #idea fedora-tour
06:45:50 <franciscod> #link fedorahosted.org/fedora-tour
06:46:06 <franciscod> susmit_: mether : is dates worth discussing?
06:46:08 <Shrink> franciscod, sure. :-)
06:46:12 <franciscod> rather date period?
06:46:12 <susmit_> yes...
06:46:21 <franciscod> summer/winter?
06:46:32 * yevlempy thinks fudcon can be far better than foss.in as far as "getting work done" goes
06:46:56 <franciscod> Shrink: what would you like to do at FUDCon with dorrie? ie what sessions?
06:47:11 <mether> Not sure he is here. I don't have any specific dates in mind
06:47:21 <Shrink> franciscod, talk + hack-session
06:47:23 <Shrink> ?
06:47:23 <susmit_> franciscod, look..it takes ~6 months to organize fudcon...so may be in winter..
06:47:39 <Irumbu_Moideen> anything for the end user ?
06:47:40 <yevlempy> winter will be a cool choice though
06:47:59 <franciscod> susmit_: winter would be preferred, not sure how outsiders will handle the indian summer ;)
06:48:09 <franciscod> Irumbu_Moideen: please propose something?
06:48:36 <Irumbu_Moideen> Something like papercuts
06:48:51 <Irumbu_Moideen> get end users to list top 20 cribs they have with fedora
06:48:56 <franciscod> elaborate? floors yours, please <EOF> when done
06:48:59 <Irumbu_Moideen> and fix it at fudcon ?
06:49:04 <mether> Irumbu_Moideen, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fit_and_Finish
06:49:16 <_sankarshan> !
06:49:39 <franciscod> so a feedback sesion?
06:49:44 <franciscod> _sankarshan: yes?
06:50:04 <susmit_> Irumbu_Moideen, nothing for end users officially, but if they care to come in and want to participate, probably he can get involved with some cool projects..
06:50:07 <Irumbu_Moideen> yes a feedback session
06:50:13 <Irumbu_Moideen> umm
06:50:16 <_sankarshan> I was reading the scroll-back and realized that the question "Why do we want to have a FUDCon ?" hasn't been asked or, discussed
06:50:16 <franciscod> #idea feedback from end users
06:50:30 <susmit_> _sankarshan, first thing I did
06:50:45 <susmit_> you have not scrolled up higher ;)
06:50:56 <_sankarshan> Possibly susmit_ - my mistake
06:51:16 <Irumbu_Moideen> hmm my mistake . bye all.
06:51:20 <franciscod> _sankarshan: apart from many other reasons, pulling in more contributors & getting existing contributors in one place
06:51:50 <franciscod> #idea preferred time would be the winter
06:52:58 <susmit_> but franciscod what are many other reasons...and as I asked before..what do we want to achieve out of it?
06:53:27 <franciscod> susmit_: like i said, the different on going projects at their stages at the time will benifit
06:53:48 <franciscod> im not sure what the scenario will be in 6 months time
06:54:16 <franciscod> once we submit a bid etc and announce it, im sure a *lot* of teams will come forward requesting time and space
06:54:29 <franciscod> susmit_: mether : _sankarshan : ^ ?
06:55:03 * yevlempy agrees with franciscod
06:55:39 <franciscod> as far as end users are concerned, we will have media and swag at least
06:55:47 <susmit_> so you mean we decide the measure of success, ask each person to define input/output, and finally take responsibility of the results?
06:56:20 <susmit_> I mean finally ask them to take responsibilities of the result?
06:57:02 <franciscod> susmit_: well, at the FUDCon, is there a way of you taking responsibilty for what everyones going to be upto?
06:57:19 <susmit_> no..
06:57:40 <_sankarshan> but there is before a FUDCon. Having a set of goals and working towards it should be a good place to start
06:57:41 <franciscod> i assume (hopefully correctly) that contributors taking time out to attend it will be there for serious work, and not sight seeing
06:58:28 <franciscod> _sankarshan: wouldnt that be better discussed with the entire community? the limited number of people cannot be aware of everything thats going on
06:58:37 <franciscod> s/people/people here/
06:59:08 <franciscod> we can decide up a pretty wide/ambigous goal, but i really cant think of how to get it down to specifics
06:59:27 <franciscod> any ideas?
06:59:29 <franciscod> yevlempy: ^ /
06:59:30 <franciscod> ?
06:59:49 <susmit_> franciscod, let's start with the people here..we will think about the other people latter in the mailing list.
06:59:59 <franciscod> okay
07:00:02 <franciscod> ill start
07:00:16 <yevlempy> _sankarshan, franciscod i that case we need to put the things well on mailing list and ask people for ideas
07:00:31 <yevlempy> s/i/in
07:00:39 <franciscod> 1. fedora-tour, depending on its stage, get in more people to work with it, getting feedback on it
07:01:12 <franciscod> discussion with various teams on functions etc
07:01:37 <franciscod> 2. packaging, an easy way to get people started, (easier than a font packaging session)
07:01:40 <franciscod> 3. bugs
07:01:52 <franciscod> getting people aware of how their bug can be fixed,
07:01:59 <franciscod> that reporting and forgetting is useless
07:02:20 <yevlempy> franciscod, there are people among us only who are not aware of whole things like fedora-medical, fedora-tour i only just came to know
07:02:22 <franciscod> someone from the triaging team can take a session and pull in more traigers
07:02:38 <susmit_> franciscod, you don't have to do it right away...ask on the mailing list and start putting input/output to a wiki page...incluiding where are the scope for involvement for new people...and roadmap to fudcon for that particular item.
07:03:07 <susmit_> yevlempy, that's because you probably don't follow mailing list or planet fedora.
07:03:08 <yevlempy> susmit, +1
07:03:11 <franciscod> #idea potential list of things to be done AT the fudcon
07:03:19 <franciscod> #idea potential list of things to be done AT the fudcon -> wiki page
07:03:40 <franciscod> since i wrote 3 already,
07:03:42 <franciscod> ;)
07:03:51 <franciscod> 4. getiing people more interested in testing
07:04:12 <franciscod> for example, everyone has webcams nowadays, but the webcam test day dint have much feedback
07:04:34 <franciscod> 5. rpmfusion -> not sure what, but something wrt them should be there at the FUDCon
07:04:54 <susmit_> franciscod, wait a minute...
07:05:03 <franciscod> susmit_: yup?
07:05:28 <yevlempy> susmit, may be that i missed it but as far as getting new contributers involvement is concerned, putting these things in fudcon will be good idea
07:05:48 * franciscod waits on susmit_ 's comment
07:06:07 <susmit_> while it is fine to put in ideas, it is not worth when there is no one to work at...Let people propose on their own...you, yourself won't be able to do so many things at fudcon.
07:06:24 <susmit_> would you?
07:06:34 <franciscod> susmit_: yeah, i know, but this is only listing, i can take quite a few, but not all of it
07:07:01 <franciscod> im hoping the others around here would be happy to get involved in the above mentioned things (if theyre not already there) ;)
07:07:06 * franciscod looks at everyone :P
07:07:35 <yevlempy> susmit, but things can be divided and contributers can take responsibility on specific stuff
07:07:54 <franciscod> susmit_: the FUDCon needs everyone to work together, two or three people just *cannot* manage an event at such a scale
07:08:07 <susmit_> yevlempy, we _can_ do many things..but that is not the point...what do _you_ want to do?
07:08:20 * franciscod threw lots of ideas in the pit,
07:09:05 <franciscod> yevlempy: what out of the above would you be interested in? if i missed out something, please mention it
07:09:16 <franciscod> jdk2588: here?
07:09:36 * franciscod notices mbuf couldnt make it.
07:09:46 <franciscod> kital: anything?
07:09:59 <zer0c00l> I want to be in Fedora security spin stall, want to package metasploit
07:10:13 <franciscod> kital: you got lots of exp at this, we'd love to hear from you
07:10:24 <franciscod> zer0c00l: you want to wait 6 months to package it?
07:10:29 <zer0c00l> franciscod: nope
07:10:44 <zer0c00l> franciscod: but its kind of  a tricky stuff
07:10:55 <franciscod> i thought so, why not do start this week?
07:10:57 <yevlempy> susmit, i currently am working on sugar stuff and can help people/new contributres  with it
07:11:12 <franciscod> #idea sugar spin
07:11:18 <franciscod> yevlempy: okay ^ ?
07:11:26 <zer0c00l> franciscod: well i already started it, you can check the sec spin  trac
07:11:29 <susmit> yevlempy, no..you don't have to help new people at fudcon..you have to accomplish some wrok there...
07:11:38 <zer0c00l> Got carried away by otherwork :(
07:11:48 <susmit> like zer0c00l said..I want to package n number of packages there
07:11:52 <yevlempy> susmit, that was also what i meant
07:11:58 <franciscod> btw, #idea, #link, #agreed can be used by everyone in the channel, not just chairs
07:12:08 <franciscod> please use them, makes logs prettier :)
07:12:15 <_sankarshan> 'u' in fudcon is for users,what about them
07:12:57 <franciscod> _sankarshan: we've said, quick fixes, feedback (RFEs etc), please add?
07:13:21 * franciscod adds as 2nd prio -> media, swag
07:14:38 <franciscod> _sankarshan: the bugs category could have a session where we teach users to submit bug reports
07:14:58 <franciscod> that comes under converting users to contributors
07:15:32 <_sankarshan> showing them to install/upgrade?
07:15:41 <franciscod> and they can interact with existing contributors, which again, helps in conversion to contributors
07:16:03 <franciscod> #idea show users how to install and upgrade, and other tips and tricks
07:16:16 <Morpheuss> zer0c00l; PM ?
07:16:38 <franciscod> _sankarshan: would FUDCon be a good place to tell users etc how to get help etc better?
07:16:48 <franciscod> ie increase awareness on "Communication"
07:17:11 <franciscod> like people said, they werent aware of fedora-tour, inspite of it being discussed in various lists and blogs
07:17:24 <franciscod> susmit_: ^ ?
07:18:14 <susmit_> if people are not reading lists, how do you want to increase the communication?
07:18:52 <susmit_> we have a twitter channel which sends out each post on the planet
07:19:00 <susmit_> we have a identica channel too
07:19:02 <franciscod> susmit_: its not so much reading lists as them being aware of so many lists , i think
07:19:13 <zer0c00l> Morpheuss: yes
07:19:22 <susmit_> what about the planet posts?
07:19:26 <franciscod> susmit_: yeah, im saying that inspite of all the infra and everything, people still arent aware of their existence
07:19:48 <franciscod> we could work on that, telling them what facilities are in place so they know exactly whats going on in every sector of the community?
07:20:01 * franciscod would like to mention FWN at this point
07:21:04 <franciscod> i think we're done for today? does anyone have anything to add? otherwise ill call for close
07:21:40 <franciscod> ending meet
07:21:41 <franciscod> 5
07:22:19 <franciscod> 4
07:22:36 <franciscod> 3
07:22:46 <franciscod> 2
07:23:10 <franciscod> 1
07:23:13 <franciscod> #endmeeting