17:00:48 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Join - 2019-01-08
17:00:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan  8 17:00:48 2019 UTC.
17:00:48 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:48 <zodbot> The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_join_-_2019-01-08'
17:00:55 <FranciscoD> #meetingname fedora-join
17:00:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-join'
17:01:13 <FranciscoD> #chair hellbanger[m] dhanesh95|m bt0 hhlp wa1em
17:01:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD bt0 dhanesh95|m hellbanger[m] hhlp wa1em
17:01:28 <FranciscoD> If anyone else is here, please let me know and I'll add you to the list too
17:01:30 <wa1em> well guess I can't run off now :(  j/k
17:01:52 <FranciscoD> #topic Roll call
17:01:52 <hellbanger[m]> wa1em:  lol
17:02:02 <hellbanger[m]> .fasinfo akarshanbiswas
17:02:03 <zodbot> hellbanger[m]: User: akarshanbiswas, Name: Akarshan Biswas, email: akarshan.biswas@gmail.com, Creation: 2018-11-28, IRC Nick: hellbanger[m], Timezone: Asia/Kolkata, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 123C 9751, Status: active
17:02:06 <zodbot> hellbanger[m]: Approved Groups: fedora-join cla_done cla_fpca
17:02:10 <wa1em> .hello linuxmodder
17:02:11 <zodbot> wa1em: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@gmail.com>
17:02:24 <hellbanger[m]> .hello akarshanbiswas
17:02:25 <zodbot> hellbanger[m]: akarshanbiswas 'Akarshan Biswas' <akarshan.biswas@gmail.com>
17:02:34 <FranciscoD> #info FAS:ankursinha, "FranciscoD": NeuroFedora/Package maintainer, classroom, join, etc
17:02:44 <wa1em> just less spammy for rollcalls hellbanger[m]
17:03:27 <FranciscoD> Let's wait for a bit for others to join
17:03:44 <wa1em> #info FAS:linuxmodder irc:wa1em|linuxmodder SIGs: Join,Respins,Infra-apprentice Interests: conferences and security (namely cyber/it)
17:05:05 <hellbanger[m]> #info FAS:akarshanbiswas, "hellbanger[m]":  SIGS:join Interest: Music, packaging, debugging.
17:06:06 <FranciscoD> #topic Announcements
17:06:38 <FranciscoD> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DNF_UUID: DNF UUID to collect stats on Fedora usage
17:06:58 <FranciscoD> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FlickerFreeBoot Flickr free boot
17:07:17 <FranciscoD> #info https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-elections-results/ results from the Fedora elections
17:07:26 <wa1em> note the dnf uuid one is empty FranciscoD
17:07:45 <wa1em> ref: There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page.
17:08:06 * hellbanger[m] almost forgot about mailing about flicker free boot on AMDGPU platforms. Opppssss...
17:08:23 <FranciscoD> wa1em: it's being discussed on the devel list---the implementation is not yet certain
17:08:30 <FranciscoD> Worth keeping an eye on
17:08:30 * hellbanger[m] will mail Hans tomorrow.
17:08:42 <FranciscoD> #info https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fpgm-report-2019-01/ : FPgM's first report of 2019
17:09:09 <FranciscoD> #info https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-council-december-2018-hackfest-report/ Fedora council's hackfest. Definitely worth a read
17:09:42 <FranciscoD> #info https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/neurofedora/overview/ -> NeuroFedora documentation is up
17:09:45 <FranciscoD> ;)
17:09:46 <FranciscoD> That's all from me
17:09:50 <FranciscoD> Anyone else got anything?
17:11:02 <hhlp> o/ talk about the last news of askfedora in discourse
17:11:14 <FranciscoD> hhlp: I'll do that in a separate topic :)
17:11:24 <hhlp> :) good
17:11:30 <FranciscoD> Moving on to next topic
17:11:39 <FranciscoD> #topic Fedora 29 classroom check
17:11:54 <FranciscoD> #info https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/94 -> Fedora 29 classroom tracker
17:12:10 <FranciscoD> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom/F29 -> F29 classroom schedule
17:12:13 <FranciscoD> In general, we're on track
17:12:31 <FranciscoD> I'll have the draft for L10N ready tonight. lailah sent me the required info
17:13:05 <FranciscoD> #info The selinux session was moved to the end of Feb as the instructor requested
17:13:17 * FranciscoD checks on Fedora badges
17:14:09 <FranciscoD> I have a draft ready for it too. Needs a few tweaks and will be submitted for review.
17:14:25 <FranciscoD> #info Once we have all the posts ready, we need to start planning for the F30 cycle
17:14:51 <FranciscoD> Not many people around, so let's quickly do an Askfedora update and close the meeting?
17:15:01 <FranciscoD> #topic Ask Fedora migration to Discourse update
17:15:03 <wa1em> FranciscoD, we might wanna make a date format note on the Classroom page:  Not everyone is used to dd/mm/yyyy euro model
17:15:41 <FranciscoD> wa1em: they can click the link to find the exact date/time in their timezone
17:15:53 <FranciscoD> I think it's fine. Surely people can infer that much
17:16:10 <wa1em> didn't know that had been integrated nvm
17:16:41 <FranciscoD> hhlp: here's the askfedora update!
17:17:08 <FranciscoD> #info mattdm said that the council had agreed that we could have a separate discourse instance for user-end troubleshooting (i.e., Ask Fedora)
17:17:29 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> Cool
17:17:36 <FranciscoD> This ensures that user-end troubleshooting and community discussion do not get mixed, and that we don't have users asking troubleshooting questions on discussion.fp.o
17:17:37 <hellbanger[m]> awesome
17:17:47 <hhlp> good news
17:18:02 <FranciscoD> #info mattdm also said that we could enable non FAS authentication methods if necessary
17:18:30 <FranciscoD> I think we could maybe start wtih FAS only---see how that goes, and if it really makes it hard for users to use the new instance, we can enable some commonly used login methods?
17:19:02 <hhlp> +1
17:19:49 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> FB,Google and GitHub are common +1 too
17:19:59 <wa1em> FB ?  god no
17:20:02 <FranciscoD> #info We've already agreed that we're moving to Discourse, not migrating: i.e., we're not going to move the database etc
17:20:20 <hellbanger[m]> FranciscoD:  For that FAS needs to get a facelift. Current one is not the easy for common people seeking troubleshooting I guess. I may be wrong though.
17:20:23 <wa1em> Proper non social media FIDO partners + FAS would be my recommend
17:20:42 <FranciscoD> hellbanger[m]: sure, but we don't have the cycles to give it a facelift, and neither does the infra team
17:20:49 <FranciscoD> they're overworked and understaffed
17:20:52 <wa1em> hellbanger[m],  enter fas3 which is still being worked on
17:20:58 <FranciscoD> If someone has the time to work on this, please help the infra team
17:21:12 <FranciscoD> wa1em: it is not much more than an idea at the minute---there's no code
17:21:16 <FranciscoD> or wasn't when I'd checked last
17:21:39 <wa1em> there is some code but mostly in deparate repos nothing central yet
17:22:04 <FranciscoD> Yes, TLDR: we can't wait for FAS3 or for FAS to get a facelift. We'll have to do with the current version
17:22:14 <wa1em> hellbanger[m],  plan for fas3 is to have built in openID/FIDO support + FAS/ipsolon
17:22:33 <FranciscoD> I know FAS isn't mobile friendly etc., but most people will be accessing it on their computers/laptops, so it'll be fine
17:22:33 <hellbanger[m]> wa1em:  cool
17:23:03 <FranciscoD> So, we need to plan the migration then.
17:23:10 <wa1em> or levereage the magic link for the mobile login once logged in on a laptop/desktop
17:23:11 <FranciscoD> What are the next steps?
17:24:05 <wa1em> I'm still rather rusty on discourse platform but will try to deep dive into it this month to help with migration
17:24:25 <FranciscoD> wa1em: we're not migrating, we don't need to "deep dive"
17:24:29 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> Export the rules of ask to a visible place in discourse
17:24:49 <FranciscoD> @bt0dotninja: what do you mean by "rules"?
17:24:55 <wa1em> I meant more what can/could/should be leveraged on discourse
17:25:04 <wa1em> the CoC of Ask FranciscoD
17:25:11 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> Yeah
17:25:26 <FranciscoD> That'll already be there. We'll have something similar to the CoC on discussion.fp.o
17:25:33 <wa1em> be civil, no openly stupid things, google first, no spamming,etc  <<< that
17:25:36 <FranciscoD> the usual links to the wiki and privacy policy etc will be there
17:25:44 <hellbanger[m]> There should be CoC along with an "Ask" template.
17:25:49 <hellbanger[m]> ?
17:26:05 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> That and what kind of questions are allowed
17:26:05 <wa1em> ?? hellbanger[m] ^^
17:26:15 <hhlp> there is a category for that (guidelines)
17:26:18 <wa1em> bt0,  indeed
17:26:59 <FranciscoD> #info We need a category for "Guidelines" that explains how to use the platform well
17:27:18 <FranciscoD> The first thing we must do is ask the council when we can have the new instance. Yes?
17:27:33 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> +1
17:27:34 <hhlp> +1
17:27:43 <hellbanger[m]> +1
17:27:47 <FranciscoD> Are we going to have a "soft move": as in will askbot and discourse both be up for some period of time
17:27:53 <wa1em> and as a 1a getting moderator/admin privs to it setup
17:28:16 <wa1em> if so FranciscoD i'd recommend no longer than 3 months
17:28:27 <FranciscoD> or a "hard move": we disable askbot, have a period where we set up discourse, and then enable discourse?
17:28:33 * hellbanger[m] brb
17:28:40 <FranciscoD> Noting of course that we need the URL "ask.fp.o"
17:28:44 <wa1em> have a assuming we get the instance by Valentine's day make a hard move date of Mid summer
17:28:52 <FranciscoD> so a "soft move" may not be doable
17:29:14 <FranciscoD> wa1em: 3 months is too long: we're not going to be able to pay for both instances for 3 months
17:29:20 <FranciscoD> I was thinking a week or so XD
17:29:40 <wa1em> how expensive is discourse ?
17:30:11 <FranciscoD> 300$/month or so
17:30:12 <hhlp> 300$
17:30:17 <FranciscoD> which goes from the community budget
17:30:30 <wa1em> lordy for something that appears to only be in the browser ??
17:30:49 <FranciscoD> you have apps etc too
17:30:54 <FranciscoD> I think
17:30:58 <dhanesh95|m> .hello dhanesh95
17:30:59 <zodbot> dhanesh95|m: dhanesh95 'Dhanesh Bhalchandra Sabane' <dhanesh95@disroot.org>
17:31:02 <wa1em> can't find any, surely not in the repos
17:31:02 <FranciscoD> anyway, that's not something we can work on
17:31:17 <FranciscoD> I propose the following:
17:31:30 <FranciscoD> 1. We find out when we can have the instance. Let's say it's on date X
17:31:52 <FranciscoD> 2. On date X, we start setting it up
17:31:58 <FranciscoD> 2a: admins/mods
17:32:01 <FranciscoD> 2b. guidelines
17:32:17 <FranciscoD> 2c. "sticky" questions: will have to be copied from askbot manually
17:32:21 <wa1em> I'd say we make 2a part of 1
17:32:39 <wa1em> so at date X it has admins/mods ( core intial team at least) in play
17:33:03 <FranciscoD> we're not going public yet, so it'll only be us, the team, working on it
17:33:40 <FranciscoD> I would think that the "handover" from the hosting to us will include a core set of admins/mods
17:33:41 <wa1em> then I'm +1 to your proposal
17:33:51 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> +1
17:33:53 <hhlp> +1 2d. install plug-ins
17:34:18 <FranciscoD> hhlp: we're not hosting, I expect we'll have to ask our hosting to install them
17:34:28 <wa1em> 2d. discuss plug-ins 2e. install said plug-ins
17:34:48 <FranciscoD> 2e. request hosting to install necessary plugins
17:34:50 <FranciscoD> rather
17:35:06 <hhlp> we'are not hosting but we can get access to the server
17:35:15 <FranciscoD> I highly doubt it
17:35:28 <FranciscoD> the whole point is that they manage the server etc. We simply use it
17:35:40 <FranciscoD> Like the current askbot setup: we don't have access to the server
17:35:53 <FranciscoD> by "hosting", I mean "managing the infra
17:35:56 <FranciscoD> "
17:35:58 <FranciscoD> not just providing hosting space
17:36:18 <FranciscoD> the manage everything from updates to space
17:36:23 <FranciscoD> s/the/they/
17:36:46 <FranciscoD> So we're going to be limited to whatever functions the web interface provides
17:37:18 <FranciscoD> 3. we (core team) test the setup for a week
17:37:19 <wa1em> it runs in docker so we should be able to get the admins/mods to be added like we do for respins tbh
17:37:41 <FranciscoD> No, the whole point is that we pay them to manage the infra completely
17:37:49 <FranciscoD> we're not going to tinker with that bit
17:38:51 <FranciscoD> 4. if tests pass:
17:39:03 <FranciscoD> 4a. transition ask.fp.o (the URL) to discourse
17:39:09 <FranciscoD> 4b. turn off askbot
17:39:23 <FranciscoD> 4c. announce discourse
17:39:45 <FranciscoD> should we make the announcement in phases? first to the community on commblog, and then to users on magazine etc?
17:40:14 <wa1em> sure
17:40:21 <hhlp> yes phases is better
17:40:34 <FranciscoD> OK:
17:40:43 <FranciscoD> 4cI: announce to community first
17:41:03 <FranciscoD> 4cII: announce publicly the week after (or so)
17:41:15 <FranciscoD> does this outline make sense, somewhat?
17:41:33 <hhlp> yes +1
17:41:49 * dhanesh95|m has no idea what's happening.
17:41:49 * FranciscoD is thinking hard
17:41:54 <hellbanger[m]> yes
17:42:01 * hellbanger[m] is back
17:42:05 <hhlp> take care about anaconda and fedora page itself where askfedora are anounced
17:42:29 <FranciscoD> dhanesh95|m: you've missed a few meetings: it'll take you some time to catch up. Maybe go through the recent logs?
17:42:49 <FranciscoD> hhlp: hrm, we're keeping the url the same, hopefully: so what do we need to change?
17:43:05 <FranciscoD> that is, it'll still remain ask.fedoraproject.org. At least that's what I think/hope
17:43:22 <hhlp> anaconda has a slides in the instalation process where askfedora have an anounce
17:43:43 <FranciscoD> yeh, but all it says is "ask.fedoraproject.org", no? So that'll still be OK
17:43:52 <hhlp> ok
17:44:14 <FranciscoD> I'll add this as an item, though
17:44:37 <FranciscoD> 2f: check where askfedora has been mentioned and update information/links where needed
17:45:00 <FranciscoD> What about categories/tags?
17:45:20 <hellbanger[m]> I have a question.
17:45:24 <FranciscoD> hellbanger[m]: go on
17:46:31 <hellbanger[m]> How different is ask.fb.o different from discussions.fb.o?
17:46:43 <FranciscoD> you mean askbot vs discourse?
17:46:47 <wa1em> s/fb/fp/g
17:46:59 <hellbanger[m]> Fedora discussion
17:47:02 <hhlp> 1.- Announcementes 2.- Meta.- Q&A 3.- Tips 4.- Guidelines
17:47:23 <hellbanger[m]> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
17:47:37 <wa1em> I will have to catch up in logs, as I have to run
17:47:40 <FranciscoD> yes, but are you asking how the two webapps are different (askbot and discourse)
17:47:55 <FranciscoD> or why we are thinking of two different instances?
17:48:00 <FranciscoD> or something else?
17:48:10 * wa1em is now heading out and will catch up later via logs/email list
17:48:20 <FranciscoD> wa1em: sure thing
17:48:42 <hellbanger[m]> FranciscoD:  Please continue the meeting I have to get some doubt cleared afterwards.
17:49:10 <FranciscoD> ok, let's discuss that after we finish the meeting
17:49:17 <FranciscoD> hhlp: +1
17:49:50 <FranciscoD> under Q&A, should we have different sub-categories: workstation, server, atomic, community and so on?
17:50:04 <hellbanger[m]> Silverblue as well
17:50:10 <FranciscoD> oh, here's something we hadn't discussed: different languages on discourse?
17:50:29 <hellbanger[m]> +1 ^^
17:50:31 <hhlp> Franciscod, it was a multilingual site
17:50:39 <FranciscoD> hellbanger[m]: silverblue, atomic, sort of similar etc
17:50:54 <FranciscoD> hhlp: ah, graeat---that simplifies things a bit
17:51:10 <FranciscoD> hhlp: do we have to specify what languages are available?
17:51:31 <FranciscoD> because we'll have to have mods that speak each language that we make available, like in askbot
17:51:40 <hhlp> yes
17:52:12 <FranciscoD> 2g. enable languages that we can solicit moderators/admins for
17:52:36 <hhlp> I think the site are in english and the category (English, Spanish, Russian, etc)
17:52:45 <hhlp> like mandriva does
17:53:21 <FranciscoD> ok, I see there's a "language" setting in the profile bit
17:53:39 <hhlp> yes
17:53:59 <FranciscoD> hhlp: should we put the plan on a wiki page, and think it over for a week till the next meeting? Then we can start creating action items?
17:54:36 <hhlp> yes of course let's do it
17:54:36 <FranciscoD> that'll give us time to add things we may have missed. We can also inform mattdm etc and get their feedback
17:54:54 <hhlp> +1
17:55:05 <FranciscoD> hhlp: would you be able to take the plan from the logs and put it on a wiki page please? I have a really busy week this week :/
17:55:24 <hhlp> yes i take care
17:55:36 <FranciscoD> Lovely. Thanks very much!
17:55:45 <hhlp> you're welcome
17:55:48 <FranciscoD> #action hhlp will take the plan outline from logs and put it on a wiki page
17:56:06 <FranciscoD> #idea we will update the wiki page with anything that we missed today
17:56:07 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> Awesome
17:56:19 <FranciscoD> #idea we will inform other stakeholders of the wiki page and solicit feedback
17:56:21 <FranciscoD> phew
17:56:39 <FranciscoD> this is already quite a bit of work. I can't imaging how we would've managed moving the database etc!
17:56:56 <FranciscoD> Ok, 4 minutes for open floor :D
17:57:00 <FranciscoD> #topic Open floor
17:57:08 <FranciscoD> #info Happy new year!
17:57:14 <FranciscoD> that's my contribution to the open floor XD
17:57:15 <dhanesh95|m> Happy new year to all!
17:57:21 <hellbanger[m]> Happy new year 2019 :d
17:57:28 <hellbanger[m]> lol
17:57:33 <dhanesh95|m> That's my contribution to the meeting! :P
17:57:40 <hhlp> Happy new year 2019 , I wish all your dreams come true
17:58:03 <dhanesh95|m> hhlp: Even the ones which are unrealistic?
17:58:14 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD update next meeting page
17:58:17 <hhlp> yes dreamer is free
17:58:18 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD send out logs
17:58:38 <dhanesh95|m> hhlp++
17:59:14 <tg-fedjoin> <bt0dotninja> :)
17:59:15 <dhanesh95|m> Wake up zodbot! Give him a cookie!
17:59:21 <dhanesh95|m> hhlp++
17:59:37 <hellbanger[m]> hhlp++
17:59:38 <FranciscoD> dhanesh95|m: unless this nick is the one you have in FAS, zodbot doesn't know who you are
17:59:46 <FranciscoD> so no cookies from you
17:59:49 <hellbanger[m]> zodbot is a naught bot
17:59:51 <hellbanger[m]> :P
17:59:58 <FranciscoD> hhlp++
18:00:03 <dhanesh95|m> That is so not cool!
18:00:04 * FranciscoD has already given hhlp cookies this release
18:00:11 <hhlp> he is in holidays don't return yet
18:00:28 <FranciscoD> OK, closing. It's time
18:00:30 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting