20:05:28 #startmeeting 20:05:29 Meeting started Tue Feb 9 20:05:28 2010 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:05:30 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:05:39 In the meantime, feel free to roll-call and suggest agenda items. 20:05:51 amilate? 20:05:52 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda 20:05:54 * rbergeron ishere 20:05:59 # Marketing#Release deliverables SOP review, scheduling, gameplan 20:06:00 * Survey software (rbergeron) 20:06:00 * Fedora Insight (mchua) 20:06:00 * Fedora-Tour (franciscod, rrix, Subfusc) 20:06:00 # Press materials status 20:06:02 * Linux.com distro blog, do we have enough people with access to spread the load? (mchua, stickster if around) 20:06:16 rrix: no, but I'm not sure everyone got the message to move to this channel. 20:06:27 oh, i can heard if necessary 20:06:30 herd* 20:07:40 rrix: if you could, that'd be awesome - #fedora-mktg and the mailing list are the two main places to ping, I'd say. 20:07:50 yup :) 20:07:53 Yallrighty, we're logging and I don't want to delay meeting start longer than needed, so. 20:07:59 #topic Deliverables SOP 20:08:09 other agenda item - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-February/011685.html 20:08:13 if we get to it :) 20:08:28 * mchua adds to ze agenda 20:09:21 Ok. So, I have to first apologize for the still-somewhat-sad state of SOPs - though I finally got things to the point where I'm chugging pretty steadily through them. I'm hoping to finish tonight, and what I have now should give you an idea of what I've been trying to do. 20:09:26 Erm. 20:09:28 #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-marketing-tasks.html 20:09:48 We've got 5 release deliverables; that link shows us when we're slated to tackle each one. 20:10:03 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing#Release_deliverables 20:10:09 lists our current release deliverables. 20:10:18 And... 20:10:20 #link http://blog.melchua.com/2009/12/24/whats-marketing-doing-for-f13-anyway-a-show-with-dancing-penguins/ 20:10:27 shows where this all fits into the grand scheme of things for this cycle. 20:11:01 So looking at that, you can see that our first deliverable sprint week is coming up quite soon. 20:11:11 Next week, actually. And it's choosing talking points. 20:11:16 next week? 20:11:17 yeah 20:11:21 what she said. 20:11:30 (which is, ironically, the last SOP I decided to write. Sigh.) 20:11:55 So our weekly meeting times between now and Beta are going to, for the most part, be "let's make $this_release_deliverable!" sprints. 20:11:58 so can we talk about it for a minute? :) idon't remember this from last cycle. 20:12:14 do we have wider participation than just marketing on the talking points? 20:12:33 rbergeron: Absolutely. Actually, I'd like to save that for the end, because it's something we should be pushing on lists anyway, so if we have to punt it to the list that's ok. 20:12:50 okeedokee. 20:13:15 Right now I'm trying to get a gauge on whether the way I've been structuring the release deliverables information is actually helpful. 20:13:26 * stickster notes he's here, a bit late. 20:13:29 If you look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing#Release_deliverables - the one for "release slogan" is probably the most illustrative. 20:13:54 Basically, trying to set things up so that a newcomer to marketing can grok what we're doing wrt release deliverables quickly, and help pitch in. 20:14:28 * rbergeron nods 20:14:30 and also so that other SIGs (and even projects outside Fedora) can see what our open marketing practices are, along the themes of "boy, wouldn't it be great if open source marketing was A Thing?" 20:14:36 * mchua waves at stickster 20:14:45 So, very quickly: basic layout is that there's a category for each release deliverable 20:14:46 * rbergeron throws stickster another shovel and some hand warmers 20:15:00 for instance 20:15:03 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan 20:15:16 (which redirects to the category of the same name) 20:15:27 and each deliverable of that type is listed under that category, so we don't have to manually list them. 20:15:41 And then each deliverable type has a SOP. For instance, in this example... 20:15:45 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP 20:15:55 ...also categorized the same way ([[Category:Release Slogan]] here). 20:16:24 ...uh, obviously the bottom of that page needs some cleanup, but you can see the listing of steps that someone would follow to go through making a release slogan. 20:16:29 even someone new to fedora, even someone from outside fedora. 20:16:48 That's pretty much it. Very simple documentation structure. 20:16:56 So my plan is to do that for all the release deliverables. 20:17:05 thoughts? patches? 20:17:13 * stickster just recategorized some feature stuff 20:17:21 Scathing critique of not particularly finished current SOPs? :) 20:17:29 * rbergeron notes that it would be nice to validate that these work when we are doing the deliverables 20:17:31 :) 20:17:39 Behold: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:In-depth_features 20:17:42 SOP on how to validate an SOP. muhaha! 20:17:54 #action mchua finish v.1.0 of deliverable SOPs and call for feedback on marketing list, planet 20:17:57 * mchua head spins from the meta 20:18:00 rbergeron: Yep, exactly. 20:18:19 I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to finish them all earlier - I've been... ah, mildly hosed lately. 20:18:28 * rbergeron hears that one. 20:18:39 (Not a good excuse, though. I'll clean up my act tonight. ;) 20:18:55 ...anyway, just wanted to run that structure by you folks to see if it was ok. 20:19:06 * rbergeron will be here if mchua will be here for all night finish up all this stuff sprint 20:19:13 :) 20:19:14 particularly folks doing marketing stuff for the first time, like yn1v. ;) 20:19:20 rbergeron: Sleep? What's that? 20:19:40 Anyway, didn't want to take up the whole meeting on tihs. 20:19:42 er, this. 20:19:44 So moving on... 20:19:50 I feel is a good guide, nice structure 20:19:54 * hiemanshu is late 20:20:06 yn1v: yay! validation! :) thanks. 20:20:10 hey hiemanshu! 20:20:12 Ok, moving on. 20:20:16 #topic survey software 20:20:19 rbergeron: how's it going? 20:20:40 so... i said last week I'd send out an email by the end of the week, and I haven't done that yet. 20:20:49 hence the, I'll meet mchua if she's around tonight online. 20:20:52 * rbergeron has been hosed :\ 20:21:23 :) 20:21:26 Yeah, I know how that feels. 20:21:27 and really, EOF. I've come to the conclusion that either one will work 20:21:32 #action rbergeron send out survey software update 20:21:33 limesurvey or phpesp 20:21:53 it's a matter of doing the "right thing" for us now and long term 20:21:54 so 20:22:02 Ayup. And ke4qqq says the latter is *far* easier to package, so... if that's what we go with for the "now," then so be it. 20:22:03 there we go. 20:22:06 indeed. 20:22:14 Anything else? 20:22:20 unfortunately, no. 20:22:21 rrix: You're up next on fedora-tour. 20:22:39 rbergeron: Thanks for your help with the survey app. 20:22:47 +1! 20:23:33 In the meantime, I'll do a Fedora Insight update... 20:23:36 #topic Fedora Insight 20:23:36 #info from the Fedora Insight side, we're setting up a weekly test cycle with FWN folks (thank you, pcalarco!) and have a nice rhythm going towards production. Special thanks to the Websites folks (hiemanshu, I'm looking at you - and sijis and gsieranski and others) who've been helping us get there. 20:23:41 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/logistics/2010-February/000378.html 20:24:00 So it's progressing nicely, we're still mostly sitting and waiting on that and thinking about content workflow if anything. 20:24:12 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Marketing 20:24:18 and 1 blocker bug that needs a little help and push 20:24:18 for those interested in helping. 20:24:29 hiemanshu: Yeah, let's put up a link to that bug... 20:24:33 * mchua finds 20:24:50 #link https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&keywords=%7Einsight&order=priority 20:24:53 for the entire queue 20:25:00 #link https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/85 20:25:27 #info ticket #85 is our last remaining blocker (according to the ticket queue). Help appreciated. 20:25:41 If rrix gets back, we can cover fedora-tour, but for now... moving onwards... 20:26:01 #topic linux.com distroblog 20:26:23 stickster set up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Maintaining_distroblog_area_on_linux.com instructions. 20:26:26 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Maintaining_distroblog_area_on_linux.com 20:26:52 mchua: And they've been tested too, but I'd like more feedback if anyone has trouble with them 20:26:58 and we should be spreading the load to whoever's interested, so if anyone would like to help out, follow those instructions - rbergeron, stickster, and myself can give you the privs. 20:27:05 mchua: I've added you and rbergeron to the admins for the feed source (fedoraldc.wp.c) 20:27:24 Yes, so not only do we have a currently spread load, but we also have a way to spread *spreading* the load 20:27:28 meta-spread woo! 20:27:38 #info if anyone wants to help with the linux.com distroblog, please contact stickster, rbergeron, or mchua 20:27:39 * rbergeron wonders if we should be having any agreement on what is important enough to want to post over? or if we have a list of things inthe meantime we should consider 20:27:46 (alpha announcements, etc) 20:27:50 rbergeron: I put some criteria on that page 20:27:56 (plus event notices... like scale) 20:28:00 I would consider release announcements for Alpha, Beta, Final to automatically qualify. 20:28:02 (me will learn to read... lol) 20:28:15 A good thing to note is that criteria for publishing things there will be useful when we figure out our publishing criteria for Fedora Insight. 20:28:17 * rbergeron just wants to make sure we're not double-posting, etc, as well. 20:28:22 rbergeron: No, really -- look at those critically and if you see something missing, please feel free to add! 20:28:45 rbergeron: The way the posting system works, it shouldn't be possible to double-post. 20:28:56 true. 20:29:00 Once a post is actually sent, it gets recorded in a cache in that fedorapeople.org area 20:29:08 So it shouldn't be offered again after that. 20:29:13 * mchua thinks of the linux.com distroblog as a sort of "Fedora Insight Beta" in terms of having us think critically about content. 20:29:18 So this is good, very good. 20:29:19 * rbergeron agrees on that 20:29:23 If you run into that problem, though, do say so on-list and we can get it fixed. 20:29:32 * stickster knows enough Python to be dangerous. Or stupid. Sometimes both. 20:29:50 sometimes posting things gets kind of grey-area-ish. 20:29:52 mchua: It's kind of a "training wheels" version of one aspect of Fedora Insight. 20:29:53 subjective :) 20:29:58 stickster: exactly. 20:30:20 rbergeron: If it's really hard to decide, I'd say, post it. When do we have too much PR? 20:30:32 #info the linux.com distroblog is like "training wheels" for one aspect of Fedora Insight - things we figure out for content criteria there will help us determine editorial policy for FI down the road. 20:30:39 mchua: Thanks :-) 20:30:49 * stickster glad he actually contributed something for this week :-) 20:30:55 stickster: is there a way to decide if a specific post to go? or the workflow is still being worked on? 20:30:58 #info if you're not sure whether or not to publish something on the distroblog, publish it. 20:31:12 well mchua answered it :) 20:31:25 (within reason!!!) 20:31:42 Hm. Maybe what we need is someone to volunteer to keep an eye on the linux.com distroblog for the next week or two - poke people to push stuff, see if the workflow/criteria are sufficient. 20:31:48 from reading the distroblog, though, there is a wide-ranging bit of content 20:31:48 Think of it as a practice run for FI content, again. :) 20:32:02 * hiemanshu raises his hands 20:32:11 mchua: We might want to think in the long term about assigning people per day 20:32:11 hiemanshu: rockin'. 20:32:19 * rbergeron nods with stickster 20:32:25 hiemanshu: ^^ and that ball is officially in your court now. ;) 20:32:29 mchua: i.e., Tuesday stickster will take care of shuttling posts 20:32:41 stickster: I prefer weekly or something 20:32:43 Wednesday, ____ will do it 20:33:03 because most people forget about *daily* stuff 20:33:07 #action hiemanshu to run herd on our linux.com distroblog for the next week (ish) and check in next week on whether our workflow/criteria are sufficient. 20:33:07 * hiemanshu is one of those 20:33:17 hiemanshu: I'm pretty open, but given my personal experience in trying to keep up with it, I can tell you that getting things there every day for a week is difficult. 20:33:41 * mchua is guessing that a pretty decent amount can be culled from that week's FWN, actually. 20:33:44 stickster: with a few minutes to every 2 hours shouldn't be bad every enoguh 20:33:45 However, I yield the decision making. 20:33:47 Take points from there, expand into a fuller blog post. 20:33:47 enough** 20:34:07 * mchua defers to hiemanshu on this topic. 20:34:24 We can always tune that as people start doing it. 20:34:31 I think that, with hiemanshu at the helm, and the load-spreading worked out (hiemanshu, we should get you admin privs right after this meeting) we're pretty set. 20:34:36 the issue with weekly that i see is.... someone waiting till one time a week 20:34:37 and then 20:34:40 FLOOD O POSTS 20:34:56 We can always set the date for posts to be successive days in the future. 20:35:05 daily.... if someone is sick, or busy for a day, the next day's person can do it. 20:35:23 rbergeron: Right. 20:35:40 * hiemanshu nods 20:35:43 anyhoo, ball's in hiemanshu's court - anything else for this topic before we move on? 20:35:49 mchua: nope 20:35:58 next up is SCALE. 20:36:02 Oops! 20:36:13 ...though we may want to wait for Robyn to come back. :) 20:36:16 rbergeron got gone 20:36:16 Ah, connectivity. 20:36:24 welcome back, rbergeron. 20:36:25 Welcome back rbergeron, we waited for you :-) 20:36:28 #topic SCALE presence 20:36:30 wow. that sucked 20:36:31 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-February/011685.html 20:36:34 rbergeron: you're on. 20:36:40 * rbergeron was just passing this along from the list. 20:36:55 quaid: le ping! 20:36:58 do we have anything to add to this? 20:37:02 * stickster totally weirded out, because he didn't get this email in his Marketing folder and can't figure out why. 20:38:07 * rbergeron was thinking of going but is waiting on the boy to have "family decisions!" time 20:38:33 * mchua also didn't get that email, and is glad rbergeron linked to it. 20:39:14 i think it came an hour ago? 20:39:25 rbergeron: well, the first thing that makes me think is "hey, this is stuff we should write about on the linux.com distro blog, maybe we should ping quaid to add a few explanatory sentences at the top and push to the blog." 20:39:49 Oh, that might explain it, I haven't checked my email for about 2 hours. 20:39:55 hhminus the part about 20:39:57 err. 20:40:04 ...yep, there we go, it's in my inbox. 20:40:05 yay! 20:40:13 minus the part about "what am i missing, what is red hat planning around PR for this event" 20:40:15 ? :) 20:41:14 Well, that too, maybe... being participatory == good, if there's a way to quickly make that make sense. 20:41:26 hiemanshu, looks like you might have a first person to nag for this week's distroblog. :) 20:41:50 * hiemanshu is on a call 20:41:59 fancy! :) 20:42:25 jfalco: backlog at 20:42:30 mchua: :) 20:42:37 jfalco: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2010-02-09/fedora-meeting-1.2010-02-09-20.05.log.txt if you'd like it 20:42:42 (whoops, premature enter key.) 20:42:52 nice thank mchua , sorry I'm late 20:42:54 hiemanshu: *chuckle* 20:43:05 jfalco: no problem - my fault for sending out the wrong channel in the email. 20:43:12 :) 20:43:16 Anyway, SCALE... any other questions/thoughts on SCALE? 20:43:24 not unless quaid has something to say. 20:43:28 i think they are doing fad goodness, too. 20:43:42 Good to know, good to keep an eye on in terms of "what event presences can look like" (what can we learn from this for the Summit, etc - for people going who can keep an eye out) 20:43:46 quaid: ^^^*ahem* 20:43:54 ...and good candidate for distroblogging this week. 20:44:10 Ok, last topic for the day. 20:44:23 * mchua is impressed with how quickly and smoothly we're moving through things. 20:44:31 * rbergeron laughs 20:45:18 * rbergeron was just informed by her son that b-o-x spells taco bell. 20:45:31 mchua: I can take over -tour if you like 20:45:41 hiemanshu: If you want to give a quick update, now's a great time. 20:45:44 #topic fedora-tour 20:45:51 ah Subfusc is her 20:45:55 sup peeps 20:45:55 here** 20:45:56 (and then we'll take questions on talking points until time runs out. ;) 20:45:59 Subfusc: go ahead 20:45:59 yo Subfusc, perfect timing! 20:46:10 sorry :) 20:46:14 what do you want to be updated on? 20:46:20 Subfusc: -tour :) 20:46:23 I just sent email to the list about scale 20:46:37 ah, I see, yes! 20:46:37 quaid: after the fedora-tour update, want to say a few words? 20:46:50 Status: the backend should be finnished about the 14th 20:46:56 only franciscods part missing 20:47:12 quaid: scott sawyer says "hi! drop me a note, damnit." 20:47:21 quaid: "and be sure that i said damnit" 20:47:22 the gui is still a design issue, but we have settled for making a simple text one the first time around 20:47:34 ala the one i made first 20:47:46 rbergeron: :D 20:47:56 The progress has been good these past weeks, with weekly meetings 20:47:58 Subfusc: Awesome. Do you know when you might be wanting help with content or testing? Anything we can help with this week? 20:48:11 * mchua also wonders when that fedora-tour update blogpost is coming. ;) 20:48:47 mchua: you actually have to talk to hiemanshu about that. He is the one making the Html -> clutter design 20:48:55 and its that part that needs most testing from you 20:48:56 =) 20:49:34 but i think we will be finished to test html docs in about a month or so 20:49:38 Awesome. 20:49:54 * mchua looks to see if we'll have the beta one-page release notes done by then to steal a bit of content from 20:50:04 I am waiting for franciscod to give me a crash course 20:50:13 I have a copy of the one-page release notes for F12 20:50:19 we can use content from that for *once* 20:50:27 Subfusc: That's also around the time of the Marketing FAD, so we might be able to make some stuff useful for fedora-tour content (since we're making brand books, and at least portions of that should be reusable.) 20:50:34 mchua: if you want an update on planet, i can write it. I just feel i have litle more than specs to give at the moment 20:50:37 =P 20:50:48 Subfusc: Fair enough - in that case, I think we're good then. :) 20:51:23 #info fedora-tour will likely be finished enough to test html docs in about a month, so we should see if there's anything we're doing for the Marketing FAD that can be repurposed/adapted for a first round of content for that. 20:51:26 if there is any questions, feel free to ask =) 20:51:32 Ayup. 20:51:38 That's all I had. 20:51:42 Anything else on fedora-tour from anyone? 20:52:00 * mchua looks around 20:52:12 ...I'll take that as an indication that it's time for quaid to say a few words about SCALE. ;) 20:52:17 #topic SCALE, now with quaid 20:52:17 * hiemanshu looks at mchua and goes "NO" 20:52:29 quaid: le ping? 20:52:54 * mchua does a little dance in the meantime. 20:53:02 * rbergeron throws mchua the tap shoes 20:53:06 o\-< 20:53:09 * hiemanshu sings 20:53:18 * Subfusc plays the guitar 20:53:26 * jfalco plays the banjo 20:53:33 oh yeah 20:53:39 * Subfusc gives mchua some marracas too 20:53:46 * hiemanshu gets ready with his drums 20:53:53 * mchua rolls out the keyboard (I'm actually a pianist in real life, so.) 20:53:58 The Marketing Band! 20:54:11 mchua: I am a singer and Drummer in real life too :) 20:54:17 I'll have to bring my guitar to the FAD. 20:54:21 hey, AamirBhutto! 20:54:29 :) 20:54:47 ...well, quaid seems to have disappeared temporarily, so... will ask on list, I suppose. 20:54:47 btw is this quaid function new in SCALE? 20:54:53 looks like quaid has "I love to run away when I am needed most" Syndrome :P 20:55:25 Subfusc: it's the first time quaid (Karsten) has keynoted at SCALE, iirc - which is a happy thing for Fedora exposure and all that good stuff. 20:55:50 #action mchua to followup on SCALE on-list with quaid et al. 20:56:03 #link http://iquaid.org/2010/02/02/cranking-up-to-scale-8x/ 20:56:12 * stickster thrilled to see non-FPLs keynoting for Fedora. 20:56:15 * Subfusc reads about SCALE 20:56:39 The "one famous person per distro community" syndrome is poisonous and silly. 20:56:40 * rbergeron wonders if stickster is delighted to not be on zee plane :) 20:56:48 stickster: +1 20:56:55 rbergeron: After my trip Down Under, nothing seems like that big a deal :-) 20:57:08 * mchua musing on cloning something like geekspeakr.com for Fedora speakers, but that's a topic for another day. 20:57:29 Anyhoo. 20:57:32 stickster: we got Linus Thorvalds ;) 20:57:36 #topic Questions on Talking Points? 20:57:54 I believe that's the last thing we had to discuss - and it's something we'll be finishing up on list anyway. 20:58:02 so are we going to wikify / push out on emails / blogs on this? 20:58:08 invite to pitch in? or how does this get narrowed down? 20:58:17 it seems... like it could be a contentious topic :) 20:58:22 Yep. 20:58:29 * stickster would like to make sure that we are clear about criteria, given the post-F12 concerns some people had about what they were 20:58:44 I remember sending a long email about it, if it's helpful I'll dig up the URL 20:58:47 I think the talking points will be our hardest deliverable to reach consensus on SOP-wise. 20:59:30 rbergeron: So, yes - we will be shouting-out about this deliverable once we agree on a SOP, because talking points + community participaiton == yay. 20:59:37 * rbergeron nods 20:59:50 coming up with something that people can agree with on how things get narrowed down - that might be a toughie. 20:59:56 and it seems like something that might take more than a week to get concensus. 20:59:59 Right. 21:00:03 err. consensus? 21:00:10 ew. bad spelling is not like me. 21:00:27 But we need to start the process next week, because talking points are a dependency for so many other marketing deliverables for a release... 21:00:48 * rbergeron nods 21:00:52 ...so if we get *most* of the way the first time, and then revise to make things better in a second round (possibly still within the f13 cycle), then I'm ok with that. 21:01:24 Here's what I'd like to suggest, given the time running out in this meeting. 21:01:55 Let's wrap the actual marketing meeting up now, and then whoever's interested in talking about talking points can move back to #fedora-mktg, and we'll pull out any notes/concerns we have about it so we have those links to send to list to start that convo. 21:02:29 * rbergeron agrees 21:02:33 I'll take it on myself to get that conversation as far as possible before next week's meeting, when we need to freeze a snapshot of the SOP and start running with it (while the SOP continues to improve in the background). 21:02:37 I'll need a lot of help. 21:02:44 mchua: You can count on me. 21:02:56 Because this is a potentially tough convo to have, and the time pressure doesn't help. :) 21:02:59 yay! 21:03:25 So if that sounds all right to all those present, I propose we adjourn and migrate to #fedora-mktg to continue this topic. 21:04:04 * mchua hears no objections. :) 21:04:07 All righty. 21:04:13 5... 21:04:15 4... 21:04:16 3... 21:04:18 2.. 21:04:22 1... 21:04:27 0.5... 21:04:29 Thanks, everyone! 21:04:31 #endmeeting