18:00:38 #startmeeting 18:00:38 Meeting started Mon Feb 22 18:00:38 2010 UTC. The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:40 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:48 #chair spevack 18:00:49 Current chairs: kital spevack 18:01:05 #topic Roll Call 18:01:08 Susmit Shannigrahi 18:01:13 Maria Leandro 18:01:16 Joerg Simon 18:01:22 Max Spevack 18:01:30 Rodrigo Padula 18:01:59 welcome today's meeting 18:02:09 Agenda for todays meeting 18:02:22 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda 18:02:51 anyone has an topic that we should dicuss with an higher priority? 18:03:22 let's go down the list 18:03:31 #topic Make sure everyone was happy with the FAmSCo report 2010-01. 18:03:42 Should we continue to make the monthy report as html-report? 18:03:52 If so, (Susmit -- find a place to host the html reports) 18:04:15 anyone? 18:04:20 kital, I think I have been silly. The FAmA trac will suit the need. 18:04:39 Personally, I think wiki is fine for presentation. But I do not have strong feelings. I will spend my effort to make the wiki pages as complete as possible. 18:05:10 susmit: great - we agreed that as long susmit has the resourcess we will do it 18:05:16 otherwise we use the wiki 18:06:14 #agreed html-reports for monthly famsco reports are a additional and made as long as we have the ressources 18:06:15 I have nothing more to say other than I have read spevack's call for help, and I shall do that 18:06:27 perfect 18:06:32 next topic 18:06:45 #topic Mentoring 18:07:06 i just want to say i work on the points we have listed here 18:07:22 but i still need till 01.March 2010 to set it all up 18:07:41 we have the groupstatistic scripts working 18:07:46 thanks to fabian 18:07:49 http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=fama.git;a=blob_plain;f=stats/ambassadors.png 18:07:49 kital link please 18:07:52 thanks 18:08:19 ! (before we are finished with mentoring topic) 18:08:28 spevack: 18:08:35 Two questions 18:08:50 (1) I'm curious what we mean by the "fallback policy in case there be dispute among mentor and mentee." 18:09:07 (2) in the "new business" section, "Ben Williams requested Mentor Status for Paul Mellors" we should probably discuss that here. 18:09:10 EOF 18:09:16 to 2. +1 18:09:40 ! 18:10:10 to 1. there was a rejected a candidate who was not fine with what the mentor requested 18:10:42 hi 18:10:53 i investigated the case and from my pov it was all correct - but for future issues we should have an official way 18:10:59 susmit: 18:11:01 hi lfoppiano 18:11:04 spevack, fallback policy means creating a sop in case there be a dispute between the mentor and the mentee. 18:11:13 eof 18:11:18 just back from office 18:11:25 right. is there a problem somewhere, or are we just creating policy in case there is a problem someday in the future? 18:11:54 spevack, no. There was a big problem regarding this and was raised in the townhall meeting 18:11:58 ! 18:12:00 no problem is solved - it was a communication issue where people did not listen 18:12:06 tatica: 18:12:25 I'm more concern about what kind of people do we want/need as ambassador 18:12:47 ! 18:13:01 do we want people who is starting to use fedora and show other people they can, or we need people who knows how to handle fedora to show what others can do? 18:13:12 eof 18:13:35 tatica: this is something we may discuss on the mentoring townhall 18:13:39 or over the list? 18:13:44 oki, np 18:13:57 what do the others think about this ? 18:14:05 susmit: 18:14:08 spevack, kital, but there *was* a dispute whatever be the reason. So there may be so in future too. Murphy's law. :) 18:14:21 * spevack nods 18:14:53 If we think it will be a lot of works, we can procrastinate it, but that may not be a wise option. 18:14:54 eof 18:15:10 susmit: sure - therefore we should hear both sides - i can volunteer to take care and make a summary to famsco in new cases 18:15:27 ! 18:15:46 Is not is better to have a sop for the same? 18:16:06 sop ? single point of contact? 18:16:19 Standard Operating Procedure 18:16:22 no...standard operating procedure 18:16:37 is there a way to make that not only mentors give a feedback about the process but also the mentee? that way we will have both perspectives of mentors process 18:17:40 tatica: that is a good point - i hope that we can get the survey platform where the marketing folks work on right now 18:17:59 susmit: suggestion for the sop? 18:18:03 ! 18:18:08 mentee should send a message to fama? 18:18:10 inode0: 18:18:28 kital, I think I can work on a draft. 18:18:36 suggested SOP: any affected party may contact fama and it will mediate disputes as they merit :) 18:18:59 inode0: thanks ;) 18:19:36 inode0, yes, looks like a good idea. 18:19:40 #action susmit works on a draft for "fallback policy in case there be dispute among mentor and mentee" to add to the join page 18:20:18 the other point that max suggested move forward is 18:20:40 #topic Ben Williams requested Mentor Status for Paul Mellors 18:21:04 i asked for some arguments from Ben 18:21:21 18:42 I dont think he has been able to physically go to the EMEA events and really wants to build the Ambassador program in the UK areas 18:21:24 18:44 I have seen him be compassionate and help motivate others even when they were depressed and on the verge of walking away from the Fedora project as a whole 18:22:05 * inode0 can confirm that last point 18:22:14 i also asked the most active emea mentor and he told me his concern that Paul has nearly no Event expirience 18:22:31 so this are the arguments 18:22:38 anyone? more to add 18:22:38 I think we need to help get Paul to an event. We don't do much in the UK, and we need to do more. 18:23:11 so should we start to make him mentor special for UK ? 18:24:20 My opinion -- yes, and also go out of our way to give the UK more funding, with him as the point person. 18:24:30 no answer? then can i have you vote please for Paul as a Ambassador Group Member 18:24:33 ? 18:24:34 +1 18:24:41 +! 18:24:58 spevack: i take this as a +1 18:25:03 lol 18:25:03 0 18:25:10 not a clue... 18:25:18 yes 18:25:21 lfoppiano: i take this as a 0 18:25:24 yes 18:25:25 not sure. I guess sending him to some event first will help. 18:25:31 abstaining 18:25:39 susmit: also a 0 18:25:44 well it is a tie..so 0 18:25:56 rodrigo_padula: ? 18:26:35 rodrigo_padula: can we have your vote please 18:26:39 +1 18:27:03 spevack: now i need your help ;) 18:27:05 3/3 :) 18:27:19 sorry I received a call during the meeting 18:27:49 you need my help to do what, kital ? 18:27:54 ! 18:28:00 spevack: we have a 3/3 18:28:25 inode0: 18:28:51 inode0: move on 18:28:56 Given Paul's activities that I have personally seen and the fact that those he would mentor likely would be not engaged in big events either, I don't think the event inexperience is such a drawback 18:29:26 I think it's +3, and three +0, but no -1. I think we should approve, and it's OUR JOB to get him some event experience. 18:29:34 rsc as emea mentor something to this? 18:29:59 but I am not the lead for the mentoring, so I only make suggestions :) 18:30:15 spevack, why can not we sponsor him to some event first? 18:30:22 I'm wondering why we not simply delay that until he's some event experience? 18:30:24 But Paul is a good guy, with smart and thoughtful blog posts, and let's EMPOWER HIM to do stuff. 18:30:33 So let's empower him. I don't care what we call it :) 18:30:48 #action spevack get paul mellors to an event, and talk to him about what we can do in the UK. 18:31:07 great 18:31:33 great from my side too 18:32:40 should we move on 18:32:44 ? 18:32:47 yes 18:32:49 please 18:33:06 #topic "bad" booth behavior has to be "fixed" - do we need a guide? 18:33:23 i think this closing statement from paul is enough to this 18:33:56 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-February/013745.html 18:33:58 ! 18:34:02 spevack: 18:34:26 I know there were some disagreements at FOSDEM about what sort of behavior we should have at the booth. 18:34:30 And *in general* 18:34:35 I believe that it is up to the event owner. 18:34:45 Sometimes we want to have a very formal event with no laptops other than the demo ones. 18:34:53 Sometimes an event is a bit less formal, and people do have laptops. 18:35:17 The general rule is that we should be professional, and there should always be some people who are paying attention to what is going on AROUND THE BOOTH and not to a computer screen. 18:35:30 Paul's point is also valid -- people should have some fun ;) 18:35:46 spevack: this was my point - paul just gave his amen 18:35:51 ! 18:35:53 be prepared, responsive, kind and levelheaded - and maybe dressed proper ;) 18:35:56 > Most important - have fun!!! 18:36:01 I think that if the booth is busy and things are crowded, the Ambassadors at the booth have a responsibility to put their computers down and do a good job presenting Fedora 18:36:16 tatica: 18:36:22 if no one is around, of there are 5 people at the booth, I don't have a problem is one or two people look at their laptop while the others handle the presentation, and trade off. 18:36:26 LET THE EVENT OWNER DECIDE :) 18:36:27 EOF 18:36:44 there are many ways to solve this kind of situations. One is to get a meeting before the event (personal or IRC) and organize what is going to do everyone at what time 18:36:58 and provide ambassadors with videos to show on their laptops 18:36:59 +1 18:37:05 tatica: great points 18:37:07 so they won't be chatting all time 18:37:15 because they will show "something" 18:37:27 but if they don't organize first... they will go to "say hi to their friends" 18:37:38 and not help people 18:37:38 eof 18:37:40 i think this is all discussed in that thread - 18:37:59 ! 18:38:08 i think it is important how we raise up such things and we have 2 thread to the same issue 18:38:17 and from my pov it made more harm that good 18:38:34 maybe we can add a functional wiki page with all the resources 18:38:49 http://tatica.fedorapeople.org/fedora-videos/ <== example 18:39:33 are there any action items we need to set? 18:39:37 so i think if we want to be excellent to each other we should encourage the people to applaud instead to always grumping around 18:39:43 like a wiki page with "things to show on your laptop at the booth" 18:39:47 as tatica suggests 18:40:05 I can take care of that 18:40:19 #agreed famsco decided to not set up a policy LET THE EVENT OWNER DECIDE - be prepared, responsive, kind and levelheaded 18:40:31 #action tatica wiki page for "things to show on your laptop during an event" 18:41:10 we move on 18:41:19 #topic Continue discussion on opening of trac instance, if necessary 18:41:33 Did we ever have a decision on this? 18:41:45 any news on that - as wrote before fesco has a closed list as well as the board ... 18:41:57 so lets have a vote now 18:42:02 -1 from my side 18:42:12 kital: what is your reason? 18:42:21 let's have a bit of discussion -- not much, but a little bit -- before we vote 18:42:41 +1 sure that will help. 18:42:49 For instance -- if I go through every ticket we have ever had, and ask Fedora Infrastructure to delete any tickets with personal information, can we then open it up? 18:42:58 because I would like to vote +1 18:42:59 I meant discussing will help 18:43:05 because to go through the tickets and ensure that now private data are in it keeps us from important work 18:43:20 kital: i can do it in 1 hour before i fall asleep one night 18:43:22 we only have 50 tickets 18:43:30 RodrigoPadula: go on 18:43:38 spevack, that should not be necessary to ask infra, I, as an admin can also delete tickets...let me check 18:43:48 yes, I can 18:43:53 susmit: well there we go 18:44:35 So that's my proposal -- Max will go through tickets and identify any with personal information. Susmit can delete them, then we can open the trac instance to the public. That is my proposal. 18:45:17 EOF 18:45:17 +1 18:45:29 spevack, you can also delete them. You are also a admin. go to https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/admin/ticket/delete/ 18:45:33 susmit: ok 18:45:40 and eneter the ticket id...that simple :) 18:45:42 that makes it easier 18:45:50 susmit: even i can handle that :) 18:45:56 :) 18:46:06 * spevack actually wrote code last weekend :P 18:46:34 Anyone else want to comment on my proposal? +1/-1 18:46:46 so we have no place where we can find a consense first in case we ever have a hot discussion ;) 18:47:21 and where do we propose to keep the account info? Mail only? 18:47:21 kital: i don't think we'd use trac as a place to have a private debate anyway 18:47:41 if we have people that can do it, I think is no a vote issue 18:47:43 we should try 18:47:51 i go with the quorum 18:47:53 susmit: well, PayPal addresses are no problem. Bank account info, we can ask people to email privately to the FAMSCo budget manager. 18:48:03 spevack, fine 18:48:23 I shall like to raise a budget issue here if permitted 18:48:33 kital? 18:48:35 susmit: sure 18:48:46 kital: your point is a separate one. Now that famsco's list is open, where would we discuss a very private matter that we don't want archived? And I think the answer is "we paste 7 email address into the To: field and have a private thread" 18:48:58 +1 for spevack first..I forgot 18:49:28 #action spevack delete old tickets with private info, then open famsco's trac instance to the public 18:49:32 spevack: this is cheating ;) - but ok ;))) 18:49:40 :) 18:50:05 not that i hope that we need it 18:50:15 susmit: go on 18:50:17 i agree. 18:51:29 spevack, fedora-bd has not got their reimbursement yet...should I tell them to send the receipts to Harish if not already done? Is is possible to reimburse in a few days? 18:52:06 susmit: oh, crap! If there is a PayPal address, I can do it TODAY. If not, then we need Harish's help. 18:52:48 spevack, ok.. I shall send you the bills and the address (if there) by tomorrow. 18:52:50 susmit: do you know if there is a PayPal address we can use? 18:52:56 spevack, no 18:53:39 spevack, if you can do it in a couple of days, that would be nice. eof 18:53:51 susmit: ok -- send me the email with BIG CAPITAL LETTERS :) 18:54:00 SURE :) 18:54:24 susmit: solved? 18:54:29 solved 18:54:32 as much as it can be in this meeting 18:54:49 ok we move on 18:55:09 #topic Cleaning up ((Category:Ambassadors)) pages: "Mercilessly" delete some pages, reduce information overhead, improve organisation and presentation. 18:55:17 spevack ? 18:55:26 I did a little bit of this. 18:55:42 mostly by cleaning up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors 18:56:02 and because there are so many pages in Category:Ambassadors 18:56:28 I kind of said to myself "I'm only going to worry about what's on the main Ambassadors page, the Events page, and the things that link from those pages" 18:56:53 I'm pretty happy with the way the main Ambassadors page looks. 18:57:11 If someone else wants to do more triage of the Category:Ambassadors, there is plenty of work to do :) 18:57:16 * sspreitzer just informs that luca foppiano is unable to connect to the meeting and therefor cannot attend 18:57:25 EOF 18:57:28 sspreitzer: thanks 18:58:00 spevack: maybe we should add it as a every week action item - as a review item 18:58:04 ? 18:58:48 kital, let's triage 20 pages each week. That won't be hard and will be a good progress. 18:59:04 susmit: +1 18:59:14 so we all do three pages a week :) 18:59:57 For example 19:00:00 look here -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Ambassadors 19:00:07 #action triage 20 pages each week from Category:Ambassadors 19:00:11 all of the subcategories can be ignored, for now. The "Ambassadors from XXXX" 19:00:12 next 19:00:20 goodness 19:00:35 We just start with each letter/number, and say as a group "what do we need to do with these pages?" Ignore them, delete them, or fix them? 19:00:44 it's not HARD -- it just takes time :) 19:00:46 next topic! 19:00:51 #topic # Creating an Ambassadors FAQ like this. 19:01:16 any volunteers? 19:01:21 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sankarshan/Questions 19:01:32 this is great. A lot of this information is already on the wiki. We just need a Cheat Sheet that makes it easy for people to see everything they need in one place. 19:01:40 yes 19:01:59 it should replace 19:01:59 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/FAQ 19:02:05 and rename it Ambassadors FAQ 19:02:30 s/replace/update 19:02:38 spevack, +1 19:02:44 +1 19:02:45 If I take the action, it will get done EVENTUALLY, but not fast. 19:03:07 #action spevack builds https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/FAQ 19:03:12 ok 19:03:22 man, that hour went by fast 19:03:23 kital, let's not do it all by ourselves 19:03:46 susmit: i think once the skeleton is in place, we send it to the mailing list and let peopl ehelp 19:03:56 susmit: so should we do a call for action to the list 19:04:04 ah spevack good ;) 19:04:05 what I suggest is: send this to the list asking for volunteers. it will be a good work for new contributors..we will then review 19:04:15 #undo 19:04:16 Removing item from minutes: 19:04:43 #action spevack make call for building the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/FAQ 19:05:06 * spevack has to go in a few minutes... what else do we need to discuss in this meeting? 19:05:13 spevack: yes 19:05:29 how can famsco help to maintain a healthy symbiosis between all contributing parties 19:05:34 Media general ordering and distribution process 19:05:46 i think sspreitzer is here for the last item 19:05:58 or you are out sspreitzer ? 19:06:05 Here's the plan for that: 19:06:09 for each region: 19:06:12 (1) List the media we want. 19:06:17 (2) Make sure we have an ISO and artwork. 19:06:20 (3) Get a quote. 19:06:23 (4) Pay for it. 19:06:27 (5) Ensure it is shipped. 19:06:52 So for each region we need to have: 19:06:57 (1) A media production company 19:07:03 (2) A main point of contact to that company 19:07:12 (3) A payment process that works 19:07:18 * spevack will wiki-fy all of this 19:07:19 #topic Media general ordering and distribution process 19:07:26 ! 19:07:29 spevack, one more thing before we close, you need to ping the dns guys once more https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/31 19:07:41 susmit: i just saw that. I will ping again. 19:07:49 spevack, thanks 19:07:54 * spevack is going through all his tickets this week 19:09:23 #topic how can famsco help to maintain a healthy symbiosis between all contributing parties 19:09:30 #action spevack make next week's agenda and send out this week's meeting log. 19:09:39 RodrigoPadula: 19:09:39 #action spevack make sure the february report is getting finished. 19:09:41 sorry 19:09:48 * spevack just making notes 19:10:06 we are not using the IRC protocol today ? 19:10:13 eh..? 19:10:14 hehe, thanks kital 19:10:14 20:09 < kital> RodrigoPadula: 19:10:19 my fault 19:10:34 bout budget for latam and specially yo brasil 19:10:34 re 19:11:30 we will have to find another way because we will not to use local expsense reports to receive budget from max 19:11:49 does anyone in LATAM have paypal? 19:11:54 spevack, how we will pay by resources now 19:11:59 I have and use it constantly 19:12:13 spevack, yes, almost all have 19:12:13 RodrigoPadula: then why haven't we been using that for YEARS? 19:12:18 tatica: you have it also? 19:12:32 yeap 19:12:40 because paypall dont add found in accounts in latam 19:12:49 the credit is added only in the credit cards 19:12:55 But... 19:13:08 I can send money to you or tatica in PayPal, and you can spend it, then send me receipts? 19:13:08 but we still can use those founds on paypal to several things 19:13:21 ex: fedora-ve website is on a private hosting that I have 19:13:31 tatica: for example, with flisol -- can we use PayPal for this? 19:13:45 spevack, I can send you receips, but of the money I spend 19:13:51 not the us$ of the reimbursment 19:13:57 right 19:14:01 in the local currency 19:14:05 we can covert it 19:14:16 that's one of the things I want to talk with you for flisol 19:14:19 :) 19:14:24 we will have to use it a lot in Chile 19:14:37 Like when I reimburse folks in EMEA -- I tell PayPal to reimburse 100 EUR and it charges me $10,000 USD :) 19:14:51 O_O 19:14:52 the question is if the local people will have the money to spend with fedora 19:15:06 we have that money 19:15:15 we have almost 3 years using our money 19:15:27 I am ready to send money via PayPal to anyone in LATAM who needs it for Fedora work. 19:15:36 wont be bad to get some reimbursement in us, knowing the problems that countries live .ve has with those 19:15:51 great, we can make a "test" with flisol 19:15:52 all I need back is receipts and blog posts/activity reports :) same as anywhere in the world. 19:15:56 is a near event, and we need help 19:16:04 tatica: how much budget do we need? 19:16:05 almost all countries of latam 19:16:16 last year for FISl I spent like US$6K from my pocket to realize the FUDCon and later I received the reimburement from red hat 19:16:18 tatica: tickets are set in famsco trac? 19:16:30 I know what Venezuela and Mexico need, but I can do a research this week and make a complete request 19:16:39 kital, not yet, only mx has an open ticket 19:16:54 tatica: anything you need, i will do my best :) 19:16:54 I want to discuss with max first because I need help 19:16:59 tatica, remember the wiki page created by you last month ?-) 19:17:04 tatica: let's continue the discussion after the formal meeting is over. 19:17:11 kital: what else for this meeting? 19:17:25 mom 19:17:37 the current topic is 19:17:38 how can famsco help to maintain a healthy symbiosis between all contributing parties 19:17:58 eof 19:18:01 this was raised during the townhall 19:18:14 and pointed out by cwickert 19:18:14 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-February/013639.html 19:18:16 that is a pretty broad topic :) 19:18:32 kital,, if everyone agrees, we can have another meeting this week and clear all the backlogs. 19:18:35 So when it comes to the question: "What can FAmSCo do to support the 19:18:35 spins community?" I have to say: Not much, because the problems exist 19:18:35 throughout nearly all groups in Fedora. The only thing that FAmSCo can 19:18:38 do is take care of the spins media, but this is not supporting the spins 19:18:41 community but their very own ambassadors. 19:18:56 this is a quote from cwickerts email 19:19:26 look -- the simple fact is that part of the frustration Christoph has is *my* fault, and it would have been fixed last week except I had a family emergency, so I will fix it this week. The rest of it is Larger than Just FAMSCO. 19:19:56 EOF 19:19:59 +1 clear words thanks 19:20:06 than we have it! 19:21:02 good meeting, everyone 19:21:59 RodrigoPadula: go ahead 19:22:14 kital, do we close for today? We are one and a half hours down. :) 19:22:20 #endmeeting