18:00:34 <kital> #startmeeting FAmSCo Meeting 2010-05-03
18:00:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May  3 18:00:34 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:44 <kital> #topic Roll Call
18:00:47 <susmit> susmit shannigrahi
18:00:48 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:01:40 <kital> #chair susmit spevack
18:01:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital spevack susmit
18:02:01 <spevack> how's everyone doing?
18:02:23 <susmit> spevack, fine..thank you. how are you doing?
18:02:24 <kital> spevack: busy with F13
18:02:26 <kital> ;)
18:03:20 <kital> we wait a bit - i pinged ke4qqq
18:03:21 <spevack> I'm busy with expense reports :)
18:03:44 <kital> ping tatica
18:04:13 * ke4qqq is here
18:04:15 <ke4qqq> sorry
18:04:34 <kital> np ke4qqq still roll call
18:04:55 <susmit> :)
18:06:00 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
18:06:29 <kital> #topic current action items
18:07:12 <kital> anyone willing to add something here?
18:07:30 <kital> i saw that susmit addressed the call for Release Party
18:07:43 <susmit> yes
18:07:46 <kital> and it was introduced also during the regional meetings by the certain famsco members
18:08:17 <kital> thanks susmit !
18:08:18 <kital> http://susmit.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/call-for-fedora-13-release-events/
18:08:28 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_release_events
18:08:29 <susmit> the number/response is below expectation so far
18:08:51 <susmit> I hope it will increase as the release approaches
18:08:57 <kital> maybe we should re-post it?
18:09:38 <ke4qqq> are we offering the same prize as last release?? or did we deicde to do away with that
18:09:59 <kital> we have the EMEA Africa Meeting this Wednesday and i suggest to try to make it a goal for African Contributors
18:10:04 <kital> who attend this event
18:10:07 <spevack> !
18:10:10 <kital> s/event/meeting
18:10:24 <kital> spevack: no need for meeting rule with 4 people only
18:10:57 <spevack> So in the past, we offered sponsorship to FUDCon to the "best" release party.  I'd like to know what others think about doing this again.  My opinion...
18:11:16 <tatica> o/
18:11:18 <spevack> is that it was ok.  We had two winners last time.  One was unable to go to FUDCon, but we'd sponsor him in the future
18:11:22 * tatica excuses for her delay
18:11:38 <spevack> The other was an ambassador in APAC, and while we didn't sponsor FUDCon, we sponsored a trip to the Linux Foundation Summit.
18:11:55 <spevack> It was a good trip for him and Fedora, but a giant pain from a money point of view.  It took several months to get him all the funding back.
18:12:01 <spevack> So administratively it was a pain in the ass
18:12:05 <spevack> But overall, probably a good thing.
18:12:06 <spevack> EOF
18:12:14 <kital> hi tatica we discuss - Release Parties - and if we want to offer a price sponsorship FUDCon to the "best" release party
18:12:24 <susmit> !
18:12:26 <tatica> oh, oka
18:12:30 <kital> susmit: goon
18:12:32 * ke4qqq can't honestly comment on the perception of the 'prize' - esp from a non-NA perspective
18:13:32 <susmit> I don't think we need to go for prizes..however, it is nice when some contributor earns his trip doing some good work
18:13:39 <susmit> his/her
18:14:17 <kital> will offering a price motivate them more to make a Release Party
18:14:18 <kital> ?
18:14:36 <kital> how is the effect on the others who will not win?
18:14:45 <kital> i am a bit unsure about tis
18:14:46 <kital> this
18:14:48 <susmit> kital, bad, of course
18:14:51 <ke4qqq> yeah - I can't imagine it's a huge motivation - though perhaps the being sent to nonfudcon
18:15:27 <kital> because i know that spevack and we all will do anything to help a deserved contributor to come to a fudcon anyway
18:15:32 <ke4qqq> ie - instead of reward it looks like more/better responsibility - the winner becomes $representative and $major event
18:15:41 <ke4qqq> kital: +1
18:16:05 <tatica> hmm
18:16:16 <tatica> I don't think that a release party prize should be a trip
18:16:25 <ke4qqq> tatica: what should it be?
18:16:31 <tatica> anyone can do a release party, but that happens only 2 a year
18:17:04 <susmit> tatica wants one release/month ;)
18:17:07 <tatica> maybe send something to encourage them to set them as a team
18:17:37 <ke4qqq> such as?
18:17:54 <kital> maybe we should award all of them that provide a Report with pictures and a text?
18:17:58 <kital> with something
18:18:27 <tatica> special t-shirts, a fedora bubble pillow... a coffee cup
18:18:36 <susmit> that would be a good idea.. but that has to be cost effective.
18:18:41 <ke4qqq> what about a netbook?
18:18:53 <tatica> hmm neither
18:18:58 <kital> or base caps as example i volunteer to organize the prizes if we have budget spevack?
18:19:01 <tatica> I'm against unique prizes
18:19:10 <tatica> I think that's what I'm trying to say :\
18:19:21 <ke4qqq> ahhh so you are saying - rarely is it just one person
18:19:24 <kital> unique means?
18:19:24 <tatica> a release party must be done by a group
18:19:27 <ke4qqq> yet we are focusing on rewarding one person
18:19:33 <spevack> we have budget for whatever FAMSCO wants to do.
18:19:51 <ke4qqq> famsco wants ponies and fudcon in HI :)
18:19:54 <kital> ;) good but not easier hihi
18:20:05 <spevack> the idea of a "prize" is to motivate people to do two things -- (1) to organize a nice release party which spreads Fedora in their area and (2) to reward them in a way that also encourages continued contribution
18:20:08 * tatica needs a bubble pillow... now
18:20:50 <kital> ke4qqq: netbook for all?
18:21:12 <ke4qqq> at 200-300 each 0 we could give a winning team each a netbook
18:21:25 <ke4qqq> and still likely be cheaper than a trip somewhere
18:21:33 <kital> but this is demotivating to the loser teams
18:22:10 <ke4qqq> but someone has to win - right??? how do we not demotivate?
18:22:24 <kital> in my opinion - i would feel bad if i had but efforts in it and see others win such a great prize - which really would be motivating this is for sure!
18:23:00 <kital> ke4qqq: as said provide a prize to all who provide a Event Report with Pictures on Fedora Planet - maybe?
18:23:19 <tatica> and if we send something to engourage organization? like SFD do?
18:23:24 <tatica> can be that possible?
18:23:26 <ke4qqq> kital: if we don't announce it
18:23:37 <kital> could be a spezial T-Shirt - exclusive "i am a Release Event Winner"
18:23:37 <ke4qqq> otherwise I am putting on an event just to get a netbook or $prize
18:23:49 <kital> Event Report with Pictures
18:24:31 <susmit> my proposal is we sponsor a team lunch for every team who provide an even report (upto a certain limit)..that should not cost much and we can cover every team. I don't know how that sounds.
18:24:47 <tatica> ooohhh
18:24:49 <tatica> I like that one!
18:24:55 <tatica> lunch +1
18:25:21 <tatica> but still... I want a fedora bubble pillow u_U
18:25:28 <ke4qqq> spevack: does the overhead from that sounds like it's worse/better than what we did last release
18:25:35 <kital> +1 - unannounced to have it as a surprise afterwards
18:25:47 <spevack> sounds fine to me.
18:26:02 <spevack> kital: unannounced except for anyone who reads these meeting logs :D
18:26:06 <susmit> :)
18:26:08 <kital> exactly
18:26:14 <ke4qqq> spevack: no one reads this right?? :)
18:26:25 * ke4qqq sets about planning his release party :)
18:26:29 <susmit> ke4qqq, no. I know a few people who does
18:26:32 <kital> sankarshan does!
18:26:53 <susmit> and a few other people too.
18:27:18 <tatica> lol
18:27:18 <susmit> ok..if it is settled, we can move.
18:27:27 <susmit> kital, spevack ?
18:27:49 <kital> #agreed to have team-lunch as prize for every Release Event Team with an detailed Event Report
18:27:51 <spevack> ok
18:28:03 <kital> #topic April Report
18:28:42 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2010-04
18:28:59 <kital> thanks to Max for setting it up and all who worked on it -
18:29:16 * spevack takes a look
18:29:21 <kital> i would say ready for release or can you think on any
18:29:23 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2010-04#General_accomplishments_or_decisions
18:29:27 <kital> ?
18:29:33 <kital> what i missed for April
18:30:20 <kital> maybe our decission on Campus Ambassadors "it is not in famsco scope"?
18:30:31 <susmit> yes
18:32:08 <kital> searching
18:34:04 <kital> * Subsequent to Davids research we have no actionable items for FAmSCo, and consider it outside our purview.
18:34:26 <spevack> the regional section is pretty light...
18:34:31 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2010-04#General_accomplishments_or_decisions
18:34:34 * spevack searches for the Texas Linux Fest reports to add
18:34:37 <spevack> I know there were some of those
18:34:46 <kital> Latam and india - yes
18:34:59 <ke4qqq> yeah - I couldn't find blogs - and they weren't on the page
18:35:40 <spevack> ke4qqq: i'm adding them now
18:35:54 <kital> i also sended swag to praque for Marek but got no event report
18:36:03 <kital> s/sended/sent
18:36:37 <ke4qqq> kital: that's been a problem in NA as well - though things are much better this month.
18:36:55 <ke4qqq> spevack: thanks
18:37:08 <spevack> ke4qqq: done
18:38:22 <kital> marek told me he will write on about praque
18:38:32 <kital> so should we release it or wait
18:38:41 <susmit> yes. we have had the same problem here too
18:38:52 <kital> tatica: all the flisol events had a lot reports
18:38:54 * tatica needs to do her report urgent
18:39:06 <spevack> Let's give tatica 24 hours to get FLISOL stuff in, then release it.
18:39:15 <tatica> thank you, really
18:39:26 <kital> ok!
18:39:30 <spevack> If there are not reports from India, perhaps Susmit could add a line saying "this is empty because we're not seeing event reports.  Let's do better!"
18:39:30 <susmit> ok
18:39:46 <spevack> It would be a real shame to release the April report without the FLISOL stuff that we know exists.
18:39:50 <spevack> There were lots of FLISOL blogs
18:39:54 <spevack> it's important to include them
18:40:00 <ke4qqq> +1 - and perhaps call it out at regional meetings - I complained last month at the NA meeting and it seems to have gotten substantially better
18:40:00 <spevack> tatica did a huge amount of work
18:40:09 <susmit> no, there was no event for this month. I was referring to earlier instances where people has not submitted report.
18:40:42 <kital> we really have to address - no Report no SWAG ;)
18:41:08 <ke4qqq> and explain why it's important
18:41:23 <kital> +1 yes
18:41:32 <kital> much mir important ;)
18:41:38 <kital> s/mir/more
18:42:47 <kital> #agreed new deadline for April FAmSCo Report 23:00 UTC 2010-05-04
18:42:55 <kital> next we have
18:43:03 <kital> #topic open floor
18:43:22 <kital> anyone anything?
18:43:26 <spevack> yeah
18:43:45 <kital> go on
18:44:02 <spevack> I don't necessarily think there's a decision to be made, but I spend a lot of time worrying, and watching, the general level of anger/annoyance/flames in Fedora going up.
18:44:09 <spevack> I know that last week's EMEA ambassador meeting had some tension
18:44:27 <spevack> There was an email from Kevin Kofler on devel-list about his frustrations at a FESCO member.
18:45:09 <spevack> I worry, especially as we are starting the process of finding our next FPL -- and I know that I am just an old dinosaur -- but I worry about what is changing, or has changed, in Fedora
18:45:18 <spevack> where contribution is less fun, less rewarding, than in the past.
18:45:24 <spevack> Another example is Chitlesh and FEL.
18:45:39 <spevack> I know this is a dumb topic for a meeting -- since the 4 of us aren't going to change anything
18:45:42 <spevack> today
18:45:51 <spevack> but I worry a lot about what seems to be a lot more anger in Fedora than some years ago...
18:46:01 <spevack> And what we, as at least one leadership group, can do about it.
18:46:02 <spevack> EOF
18:46:45 <kital> spevack i think as Ambassadors we have more responsibility to follow our Conduct as all others because we have to present them to the public
18:47:41 <kital> i think it might be good to address this as a FAmSCo Reminder to the Ambassadors List
18:47:51 <kital> ?
18:48:19 <susmit> well, I am not too sure
18:48:23 <kital> i have drafted something already for another case maybe we can take and reshape it for the list
18:48:26 <kital> With over 600 Ambassadors contributing to Fedora - we developed together our way of meritocracy, rules, structures and our code of conduct and our culture. In our Ambassdors Code of Conduct we agree to have "some important rules to follow" to have the freedom to contribute in a peacefull and respectfull way!
18:48:32 <kital> And "Like any friends, we occasionally disagree on details, but we believe in finding an acceptable consensus to serve the interests of
18:48:35 <kital> advancing free software."
18:48:38 <kital> as example
18:48:43 <kital> there is only positive things in it
18:49:05 <kital> eof
18:49:22 <ke4qqq> I worry that frustration stems for a sense of lack of control or input - FEL strikes me that way - at least perception wise - regardless of what the facts are (because perception is reality)
18:49:45 <ke4qqq> at least with volunteers
18:49:56 <ke4qqq> which is the vast majority of our community
18:51:01 <ke4qqq> I actually think we've done a good job of decentralizing things - and that we need to continue to do that- when people feel control/ownership/that their input is valued they tend to be less frustrated,  even if they don't get their way.
18:51:15 <ke4qqq> but I am just rambling.....
18:51:37 <ke4qqq> the we, btw, in the above sentence is ambassadors
18:52:33 <ke4qqq> that and we prolly need to grow beyond shoving out 2 releases a year as far as purpose goes - iterating that is bound to frustrate if it's not part of something bigger
18:53:04 <susmit> true
18:53:09 <susmit> very true
18:53:38 <kital> suggestions?
18:55:10 * spevack is out of things to say right now
18:55:40 <susmit> We need more interaction within the teams..that is minimal at this point of time. That is also a cause for frustration.
18:55:40 <ke4qqq> that we are empowered as a body to implement?? - I think spevack is very right about that. leading by example - asking for input - etc. I am always struck at how spevack, for instance, constantly goes around the room and asks people, esp new people for their opinion. I don't know if that's conscious decision on his point, or just natural.
18:57:03 * ke4qqq is again blathering....
18:57:07 <kital> i am biased today because - my example was accused not relevant ;)
18:57:30 * tatica already send her report, now goes to the wiki
18:57:53 <kital> clarify - my try to lead by example was accused not to be relevant
18:58:42 <ke4qqq> kital: I don't know that it fits in that particular situation - I was referring to the larger frustration spevack was talking about - I'd actually argue it's the reverse in that particular situation
18:58:52 <kital> so let stay it as a monition or puzzle from max to have something we can think over
18:59:15 <ke4qqq> +1
19:00:07 <susmit> yes
19:00:37 <kital> ok - should we end then?
19:00:44 <kital> all ok with that?
19:01:09 <tatica> I really can't give an oppinion in this topic
19:01:30 <susmit> yeah
19:01:35 <kital> ok - then thanks all for coming ;)
19:01:39 <kital> #endmeeting