18:06:31 <kital> #startmeeting famsco-meeting 2010-06-21
18:06:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 21 18:06:31 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:06:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:06:47 <kital> #chair spevack susmit
18:06:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital spevack susmit
18:07:03 <kital> welcome fellows
18:07:18 <kital> #roll call
18:07:20 <spevack> hi kital
18:07:23 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:07:24 <kital> #topic roll call
18:07:27 <spevack> .fas mspevack
18:07:27 <kital> sorry
18:07:27 <zodbot> spevack: mspevack 'Max Spevack' <fedora@spevack.org>
18:07:30 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:07:30 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:07:48 * Sparks_too lurks in the back
18:08:01 <kital> Agenda for today https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
18:08:29 <spevack> I have some general updates that I'd like to share, but I can do it any time
18:08:44 <kital> there are not so much points because we decided on the last meeting to work on the current items
18:09:09 <kital> so i propose to start with updates from spevack
18:09:23 <kital> #topic general updates from spevack
18:09:30 <spevack> Well, there's a few Fedora-related topics that I should discuss.
18:10:09 <spevack> First of all, my attention continues to be stretched thin -- kital knows this, as do others.  Outside of budget stuff, I haven't had much public-facing time to do things in Fedora lately.  But there are several areas that I am trying to get work done in:
18:10:22 <tatica> hello, sry for the delay
18:10:25 <spevack> (1) More resources for community affairs in EMEA, India, and LATAM if possible.
18:10:33 <spevack> (2) Making sure we keep spending money where it is needed.
18:10:41 <kital> hi tatica  we are at topic general updates from spevack
18:10:42 <spevack> (3) Giving support to FUDCon organizational teams.
18:11:06 <spevack> Those are the areas that I personally feel are most important, and the places where my Fedora time will be spent.
18:11:12 <spevack> hi tatica !
18:11:25 <tatica> hello, sorry all for my recent absence
18:11:27 <spevack> I think that some of those things fall into stuff FAMSCO cares about, so I mention it here
18:11:30 <spevack> EOF
18:12:46 <spevack> Other things that our team is working on @ RH include:
18:12:54 <spevack> * Education --> especially mchua working on POSSE
18:12:56 <kital> spevack: more resources sounds good - do you also have a way to distribute them ? or will you the single person who is accountable
18:13:16 <spevack> kital: we will distribute them, still working on credit cards for community worldwide.  I do *not* want a single person accountable
18:13:19 <spevack> especially not me :)
18:13:36 <kital> spevack: ;) understood
18:13:43 <spevack> so the plan is for as much distribution as possible, which fits in the FAMSCO theme of regional accountability and leadership
18:14:20 <kital> short ways is something really needed - if i think of the idlelo money transfer
18:14:28 <kital> ;P
18:14:57 <spevack> yeah...
18:15:36 * ke4qqq is here sorry for my tardiness
18:15:53 <spevack> once again, EOF from me :)
18:15:55 <kital> giving fudcon support to orga teams - i can only speak for emea - Gerold and me commited us to support fudcon zurich with all ressources we have to make it a success
18:16:33 <kital> i am in contact with santa fe tex to produce the fudcon shirts wonderfull designed by tatica
18:16:52 <kital> gerold is looking for the social program around the event
18:17:08 <kital> i will keep sure all the banners are there and so on ...
18:17:13 <kital> anyway ;) eof
18:17:30 <susmit> we are also discussing a fudcon next year
18:17:48 <susmit> let's see how that goes
18:17:59 <kital> susmit: super!
18:18:20 <susmit> eof
18:18:24 <ke4qqq> spevack: is there anything we can do to share the load with you?
18:18:30 <kital> as i did not heared something about foss.in this year this could be the place to make something similar happen
18:19:03 <susmit> it's too early for foss.in :)
18:19:06 <spevack> well, the fact that everyone else on famsco is able to be closer to the regional ambassadors is a huge, huge help.
18:19:23 <kital> ke4qqq: i should reduce my ping timeouts to spevack
18:19:35 <kital> ;)
18:21:03 <kital> i think that we are very effective with the instruments we use - we slowed a bit down since we started this year
18:21:54 <kital> besides that we are not communicating too much - do you think famsco is still in good shape
18:21:55 <ke4qqq> in some ways I think that is natural - beginning of the year is right after release - so as we draw close to a release we have a ton of responsibilities elsewhere
18:21:58 <kital> ?
18:22:29 <susmit> nah, I don't think we are in good shape
18:22:41 <ke4qqq> susmit: what would/could we do to improve?
18:22:54 <kital> susmit: why do you think is that so?
18:23:31 <tatica> routine?
18:23:56 <susmit> kital, there is no argument going on anywhere...everything is calm....there seems to be no issues with ambassadors..etc etc
18:24:08 <susmit> :)
18:24:49 <ke4qqq> there are discussions going on (such as those for prereqs for ambassadors from famna) that I feel I have been absent from - and we've largely been silent on.
18:25:26 <ke4qqq> but I fear activity for activity's sake - esp from a "governing body"
18:25:45 <kital> if we look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_tasks do you think we do fulfil this tasks?
18:25:58 <spevack> i think the question to ask is "what conversations do we need to be part of, that we're not?"
18:26:01 * spevack looks
18:26:28 * spevack waits to see what others say
18:26:40 <kital> if we would know that ;) ...
18:27:21 <susmit> kital, mostly yes. Except the regional meeting for APAC.
18:27:54 <kital> spevack: do you think of liasonship to other groups?
18:28:11 <kital> or conversation inside Ambassadors - Ambassador Business
18:28:21 <susmit> spevack, there is no interesting discussion on the FAL at all..that's what worries me.
18:29:18 <spevack> susmit: what worries me is that ambassadors list seems to have only two settings -- silence or GIANT ARGUMENTS
18:30:08 <ke4qqq> ironically - silence worries me more than arguments
18:30:14 <kital> if i think of the Fedora Ambassadors Africa discussion - very less African Ambassadors stepped up in this discussion
18:30:18 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014784.html
18:30:58 <tatica> maybe the best way to measure what a region does is not a list or meetings
18:31:10 <tatica> maybe to see events and projects would be better
18:31:28 <susmit> kital, yes, that is a good one.
18:31:31 <ke4qqq> though my real concern is that we seem to have a lack of inertia (and not just within ambassadors) almost as if we have lost purpose.
18:31:36 <kital> tatica: i agree to a certain level - and i saw some numbers in F13 Event Reports
18:31:57 <tatica> also, perhaps the recent release has everyone expenting the resoults of their local efforts
18:31:58 <susmit> ke4qqq, exactly my point
18:32:09 <tatica> that can  also be a "possible why"
18:32:27 <tatica> (sry, my english is worst than ever :\ )
18:32:32 <kital> tatica: ;)
18:32:53 <kital> if we take ourself
18:33:11 <ke4qqq> so how would we fix it susmit??
18:33:26 <kital> we agreed to proceed our discussion about  Additional Restrictions on Ambassadors Membership - on the famsco mailing list
18:33:29 <kital> and we don´t
18:33:41 <kital> or is it dont
18:33:48 <kital> ;)
18:33:51 <ke4qqq> yes, thats my fault - I brough it up  and didn't follow through.
18:34:29 <ke4qqq> brought even
18:34:36 <tatica> maybe, the words we are using doesn't like the people we represent
18:34:42 <kital> do we really need new candidates to step up to rework the Ambassadors Conduct Page
18:34:43 <tatica> haven't you think in this idea?
18:34:45 <kital> ?
18:34:45 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014721.html
18:34:47 <susmit> ke4qqq, I don't really know how to fix it, but I know that we need to fix it.
18:35:21 <tatica> restrictions can be substituted by 'features' or things like that (maybe spanish translation doesn't help me too much)
18:35:27 <ke4qqq> kital: IMO that task is firmly in our plate
18:35:43 <kital> ke4qqq: +1
18:35:53 <tatica> just like the planet thread
18:35:57 <kital> thats the reason why it is a topic today
18:36:27 <kital> susmit: i do not agree that it is on us to fix it
18:36:37 <susmit> ke4qqq, another of my concern is if we do everything ourselves, how do we identify the next leaders...that's why I always search for people who can come forward and do things. Sometime that works...sometimes not
18:36:41 <susmit> kital, ^
18:37:26 <kital> susmit: i can think of shrink and hiemanshu for india as the next regional leaders
18:37:32 <kital> from my humble pov
18:37:46 * tatica goes with yn1v :)
18:37:48 <kital> or Pierros and Robert in EMEA
18:37:55 <kital> tatica: +1
18:38:05 <kital> but this people are already the leaders
18:38:07 <tatica> he has helping me a lot in this moments
18:38:21 <tatica> while I do the artwork and aprove ambassadors he takes care of events and supply
18:38:33 <tatica> the leaders will show up with 2 reasons:
18:38:36 <kital> s/leaders/catalyts/
18:38:49 <tatica> 1.- somethings must be change to keep everything working... and they know how to do it
18:38:51 <tatica> or
18:38:53 <kital> s/catalyts/catalysts/ aahh
18:38:55 <ke4qqq> so I think the problem is growing apathy - here and elsewhere - we have a situation where things are changing - there is an uneasiness about the future and direction of the project, and people seem less interested in investing themselves. others fear the loss of community ideals.....
18:39:01 <tatica> 2.- they like the structure and want to be part of it
18:39:35 <kital> ke4qqq: new elections?
18:39:36 <ke4qqq> people feel powerless to in that change, and thus stop caring.
18:39:55 <ke4qqq> kital: I am not talking about a famsco specific problem.
18:40:02 <ke4qqq> or even something I think we can solve sadly
18:40:15 <tatica> all community
18:40:27 <tatica> for example... design only has like 3 or 4 ideas for a theme
18:40:36 <spevack> susmit: and next regional leaders in india are specifically important with you moving to the USA :)
18:40:36 <tatica> we SHOULD have near 10-15 in this dates
18:40:38 <kital> ok then please all first lets answer the question - do we need to change something in famsco in a short term?
18:40:45 <susmit> kital, to be very honest, Here in India I am not so sure about the people you mentioned...I don't see them doing a lot of ambassadorial work. Anyway..we will see.
18:40:49 <ke4qqq> yep - anyone seen the feature list??
18:40:55 <ke4qqq> or lack thereof
18:41:20 <kital> susmit: pm you about hiemanshu presenting fsl in new delhi if possible
18:41:32 <susmit> kital, ok
18:42:19 <kital> ke4qqq: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features
18:42:20 <kital> ?
18:43:02 <susmit> ke4qqq, a few are in the list, but it is for them to come forward and take charge. Let's see how that goes.
18:43:10 <kital> spevack: i settle over to india then ;)
18:43:30 <susmit> kital, nice idea :)
18:43:36 <ke4qqq> kital: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/14/FeatureList
18:44:05 <kital> ke4qqq: ups, short
18:44:31 <ke4qqq> and feature deadline in 3 weeks
18:44:41 <ke4qqq> anyway, sometihng we can't solve
18:45:02 <kital> but we should care about it
18:45:34 <ke4qqq> yes, we all should.
18:46:12 <kital> famsco related we should not forget that a lot marketing things we have done just by the way are now changed to marketing
18:46:37 <spevack> ke4qqq: regarding features (which obviously is not a famsco thing) I think that people are just exhausted after the last release.
18:46:49 <kital> a lot of strategical discussion which happened on the ambassadors list now happens on the marketing liust
18:46:59 <kital> s/liust/list
18:47:15 <spevack> And Red Hat engineers probably don't have a lot for F14 since RHEL6 is their main focus
18:47:19 <ke4qqq> hopefully
18:47:30 <kital> ke4qqq: i felt the same for F13
18:47:33 <spevack> so I think that a short release plus RHEL distractions makes it sensible to predict lighter features?
18:47:45 <ke4qqq> spevack: probably so
18:47:51 <susmit> spevack, indeed
18:48:43 <kital> sensible?
18:50:07 <kital> ok - do we need a action item for something on this?
18:50:26 <kital> is there a conclusion?
18:51:24 <kital> can we agree that we as famsco are able to still do our work? and that we like what we do?
18:51:57 <spevack> sure, i think that's definitely a given
18:52:08 * ke4qqq agrees with spevack
18:52:12 <kital> ke4qqq tatica susmit ?
18:52:14 <susmit> The first one, yes. The second one is also yes
18:52:44 <kital> ok ;)
18:52:51 <kital> puh
18:53:21 <tatica> ok
18:53:26 <kital> ok lets have short look at the current action items
18:53:36 <kital> #topic current action items
18:53:46 <kital> spevack: any news on famsco trac
18:53:50 <spevack> Mine are what I described earlier -- budget stuff as we get deeply in to Q2
18:53:56 <spevack> FUDCon stuff, which isn't really famsco but is related.
18:54:00 <spevack> Credit cards
18:54:52 <kital> spevack: so this is a ongoing task - i remove it from the current action item - it is covered by https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_tasks#Budget anyway
18:54:58 <spevack> kital: and famsco trac is something I will JUST DO :)
18:55:04 <spevack> ok
18:55:19 <ke4qqq> spevack: can someone else (I'll volunteer) do that for you?
18:55:28 <spevack> sure! :)
18:56:00 <ke4qqq> ok, I'll try and start working on that tonight or tomorrow.
18:56:29 <kital> #action ke4qqq volunteers on Deletion of old tickets with private info, then open famsco's trac instance to the public.
18:56:53 <kital> susmit news on FAQ and Release Events
18:56:59 <kital> ?
18:57:33 <susmit> release events are going great, you all must be reading the reports....FAQ will be done by tomorrow.
18:57:52 * tatica will keep doing what she does, help with artwork, and help people to organize their events, project and stuff
18:58:16 <susmit> once the release events are done, I shall compile the complete list and pass it to the lists..
18:58:18 <susmit> eof
18:58:25 <kital> susmit: lfoppiano susmit announce 2010-June-30 as the final deadline for F13 Release Event Reports
18:58:30 <kital> is this happened?
18:58:54 <susmit> APAC people know that...I shall blog that right away...sorry
18:59:15 <kital> can happen - i also miss things
18:59:56 <susmit> yes, but embarrassing anyway :)
19:00:06 <kital> from myself i stepped back to bring the Mentors Survey on limesurvey or something and just sent an email to all mentors and will aggregate the answers
19:00:14 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2010-June/000205.html
19:00:42 <kital> famsco members who are not sponsors are welcome to answer anyhow
19:01:44 <kital> as noticed before the last EMEA-Africa meeting as one chance to discuss milestones for F14 Release did not happened next chance this wednesday EMEA Meeting for me
19:02:11 <kital> thank ke4qqq for the FAMNA Feedback on Schedule
19:02:23 <kital> s/thank/thanks
19:02:43 <susmit> kital, blog done
19:02:45 * ke4qqq didn't do much - others drove that conversation I believe - rbergeron and herlo
19:02:57 <tatica> new ambassadors in latam comes with an old ambassador recomendation this days
19:03:09 <tatica> has been great
19:03:46 <kital> tatica: any feedback from your side on officila ambassadorial schedule for F14
19:03:58 <kital> s/officila/official
19:04:15 <tatica> latam right now has 2 targets, central and south
19:04:34 <tatica> south is just taking care about fudcon, and central is on a tour guided by neville spreading
19:04:58 <tatica> between brazil, venezuela and argentina guys are packaging some apps
19:05:08 <kital> tatica: very promising
19:05:09 <tatica> but I'm having some troubles finding sponsors for them
19:05:24 <tatica> dgilmore has been helping a lot
19:05:48 <ke4qqq> tatica: could you detail some of this in a blog post - or if it's happened I have missed it completely
19:05:57 <tatica> sure
19:06:14 * tatica doesn't like to go on f-planet, but will do it
19:07:11 <kital> this is another sad story where community health was not working
19:09:13 * ke4qqq needs to depart - sorry for coming late and leaving early - have a short $dayjob meeting to attend
19:09:36 <tatica> ke4qqq, :)
19:10:24 <kital> ok lets end the meeting for today
19:10:41 <kital> the other new topic is something we all have to work on
19:10:41 <susmit> no, it is late already for us too...we are over one hour..should we be going? I have noted five tasks..FAQ/Official Schedule/Mentoring Survey/Membership Restriction/Ambassador Conduct
19:11:33 <kital> susmit: this are still current tasks yes
19:11:52 <susmit> I shall finish my part by tomorrow.
19:11:58 <kital> do we want discuss Ambassadors Conduct now?
19:12:08 <spevack> kital: thanks for leading the conversation here today.  it's a difficult meeting
19:12:31 <kital> i felt we lost a bit focus in that meeting and dont wanted to use too much force
19:14:46 <susmit> kital, I  think we should stop today..let's see if we can get it going on the list :)
19:15:07 <susmit> I sincerely hope we will be able to :)
19:15:24 <kital> susmit: i will try
19:15:32 <kital> ok folks lets end meeting
19:15:44 <susmit> kital, thanks for leading the meeting
19:15:57 <spevack> agreed, thank you kital and everyone for participating
19:16:03 <kital> thanks all for attending - btw - i´ve got a email from fugolini - he told me he is back!!! ;)
19:16:08 <spevack> yay!
19:16:18 <kital> #endmeeting