18:06:30 <kital> #startmeeting FAmSCo Meeting 2010-07-26 18:06:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 26 18:06:30 2010 UTC. The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:06:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:06:40 <kital> #topic RollCall 18:06:46 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi 18:06:50 <ke4qqq> David Nalley 18:06:52 <kital> Joerg Simon 18:06:55 <tatica> Maria Leandro 18:07:04 <kital> hi susmit good to see you ;) 18:07:13 <susmit> hi kital 18:07:16 <susmit> hi tatica 18:07:29 <tatica> susmit, hi :D 18:07:50 <susmit> for 4 people, the "worst case" handshake is of 12 rounds :) 18:07:58 <kital> agenda for today can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda 18:08:13 <kital> susmit: ;) 18:08:40 <kital> #topic Ambassadors FAQ 18:09:00 <kital> a lot good work is done by susmit 18:09:02 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_FAQ 18:09:35 <kital> any update susmit ? 18:09:50 <susmit> I have been unable to work on it last week, so it is in status quo. 18:10:14 <kital> ok so we keep it ongoing 18:10:18 <susmit> yes 18:10:21 <kital> thanks for the work already done!!! 18:10:48 <kital> any more to add here 18:10:49 <kital> ? 18:10:51 <kital> 3 18:10:55 <kital> 2 18:11:02 <kital> 1 18:11:08 <kital> #topic answers from the Mentors Survey 18:11:24 <kital> i collected the answers from the mentors survey here 18:11:32 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey 18:11:48 <kital> it is an interesting read and i see some quick wins 18:12:09 <kital> like get the Wiki Page done before contacting a Mentor 18:13:00 <kital> i was a bit wondering because only one NA Ambassdor answered the survey 18:13:19 <ke4qqq> what do you wonder about? 18:13:28 <kital> because only one NA Ambassdor answered the survey 18:13:45 <tatica> how many mentors get the survey? 18:13:55 <kital> s/Ambassador/mentor 18:13:58 <kital> tatica: all 18:14:09 <kital> and i sent reminders 18:14:13 <tatica> numbers, how many did answer and how many didnt? 18:14:18 * ke4qqq is fail and didn't answer it 18:14:26 <kital> 7 answers 18:14:31 * tatica was almost fail... thanks to kital reminder 18:15:05 <kital> 14 mentors overall 18:15:13 <tatica> so, half 18:15:49 <kital> ah no forgot one 15 18:16:03 <tatica> then, we only have to check if those mentors that didn't reply have been active for the last months 18:16:39 <Southern_Gentlem> tatica, i saw the survey didnt like the survey thus no report 18:17:34 <tatica> Southern_Gentlem, oki 18:17:42 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: that is ok but at least tell me that you do not like would be helpful - thanks for doing it now 18:17:42 <rbergeron> didn't like the survey? 18:18:03 <tatica> there could be 4 options: they just didnt't want to answer, they don't care, they where busy or they're not arround 18:19:16 <kital> i just wanted to point it out - i think that the NA Ambassadors are the healthiest <- is this english - regional group we have right now 18:19:20 <kital> so it is ok for me 18:19:29 <ke4qqq> what do we want to do with this info now that we haave it. 18:19:33 <kital> i think we have a good base on answers anyway 18:19:35 <ke4qqq> kital: what makes you say that? 18:20:03 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey 18:20:19 <tatica> Southern_Gentlem, why it didn't like you? 18:20:47 <kital> tatica: can we discuss this elsewhere please 18:20:51 <tatica> oh, oki 18:20:54 <tatica> sry 18:20:54 <kital> ;) 18:21:23 <kital> tatica: it is done anyway and deadline is closed maybe we can enhance next time 18:21:45 <tatica> one thing that I see was the most common 18:22:50 <tatica> was that mentors doesn't want more toold (apps) 18:22:57 <tatica> maybe just impprove what we have 18:23:19 <kital> ke4qqq: i see that for mentors who answered - the expectations were mostly considered fulfilled 18:24:09 <tatica> and also, mentors want to see ambassadors do something 18:24:15 <kital> ke4qqq: we know that feedback on the accountability and transparency is also ok 18:24:26 <ke4qqq> I know that's a misrepresentation of many in NA - a significant chunk think they are essentially another filter. 18:24:32 <kital> more tooling is not needed 18:25:12 <ke4qqq> yeah I like transparency - even if it's not always the best - we saw that recently with comments from mentors on a specific ticket. 18:25:17 <kital> freedom to the mentor is something that can not match with the whish for more common sense how to value new candidates 18:25:23 <kital> this is something to improve 18:25:56 <kital> ke4qqq: it was transparent - it could have done without ticket without event notice to anyone 18:26:09 <kital> ;) 18:26:11 <ke4qqq> are you saying we need to add more requirements for mentors to check?? or am I misreading that. 18:26:20 <ke4qqq> kital: yes - and I thought that was awesome IMO 18:26:40 <kital> ke4qqq: no - this is was one or two answers want to have 18:26:55 <kital> s/was/what/ 18:27:41 <kital> regional covering showing weaknesses in LATAM and India 18:27:57 <ke4qqq> yeah - I personally don't think we should add more requirements - we trust the people in place to make good decisions - nothing stops them for talking to the mentors who do have lots of requirements and adopting some or all of them. 18:28:11 <kital> ke4qqq: yes! 18:28:43 <kital> ke4qqq: more answers could have pointed this out with a clear quorum 18:28:49 <ke4qqq> is India really a weakness?? aren't there three people there - and some pretty heady requirements to begin with. 18:29:20 <kital> rahul stepped back from mentoring 18:29:25 <susmit> yeah 18:29:28 <ke4qqq> ahhh I missed that 18:29:46 <kital> i see mbuf as the perfect candidate if he is willing to do so 18:29:47 <ke4qqq> could kushal or someone else help there? 18:29:56 <kital> but this is another topic 18:30:04 <ke4qqq> yep - sorry for getting off track 18:30:14 <tatica> LATAM needs one more 18:30:21 <kital> yes ke4qqq kushal is a mentor for india only - but i meant APAC not india only sorry 18:30:32 <ke4qqq> tatica: we await your nomination. 18:30:43 <susmit> APAC can have a few more...yes 18:30:45 <ke4qqq> :) 18:30:51 <tatica> but neither Neville and I have seen anyone; there are some great guys but I personaly want to see them helping notonly Brazil, but also the rest of latam 18:30:51 <kital> yes and LATAM needs a new in Brazil - Rodrigo removed hisself from mentoring as well 18:31:07 <tatica> there are a couple of guys that are helping with the magazine, and I think we can have a start there 18:31:22 <tatica> either if they get a nomination or they train / recruit a new member 18:31:34 <ke4qqq> k 18:31:38 <tatica> is good to see the group being so active right now 18:32:07 <ke4qqq> what action items do we need to take from the survey? 18:32:44 <tatica> 1.- mentors MUST have time to be mentors 18:32:46 <kital> another point is that all considered it a quality improvement for ambassadors to have mentoring 18:33:30 * ke4qqq doesn't think our rate has changed - and I don't know what to think of that. 18:34:19 <kital> ke4qqq: rate means growing? 18:34:22 <tatica> maybe is not the quality at first 18:34:26 <ke4qqq> yes rate of growth 18:34:27 <tatica> but the will to be better 18:34:36 <kital> or rejects ? 18:35:20 <ke4qqq> rejects don't bother me so much other than it frustrates and demoralizes the mentors 18:35:40 <kital> so this is what i wanted to take out from the survey 18:36:02 <kital> let me search 18:36:20 <susmit> right...and I almost never get any reply after my first mail 18:36:32 <tatica> :\ 18:36:41 <ke4qqq> susmit: same thing happens here. 18:36:49 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 susmit 18:37:01 <tatica> not with me :S 18:37:14 <tatica> my problem is not the reply; is what they write to me 18:37:18 <ke4qqq> tatica: you're prettier than the rest of us. 18:37:19 <Southern_Gentlem> but that tells me they dont want to be a ambassador in the first place 18:37:35 <susmit> ke4qqq, :) 18:37:39 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey#Can_you_think_of_any_other_improvements.2Fsuggestions_we_should_focus_in_the_future_to_have_aetter_Membership_experience.3F 18:37:44 <tatica> most of the people that contact me doesn't even help fedora, and a lot are just new users that want a @fp.org 18:37:51 <kital> let us check the 4. point on that link please 18:37:56 <tatica> ke4qqq, lol, I doubt of that reason 18:38:03 <kital> Upon applying, FAmA send the candidates pre-mentoring steps which are easy to follow and onlly upon successful completion of these steps within 14 days, the candidate move to the mentoring phase. 18:38:05 <susmit> kital, ok 18:38:58 <kital> so FAmA has to pre-approve them for mentoring in the ticket system 18:39:03 <ke4qqq> kital: that's just a different person checking to see if the pre-mentoring steps are complete - does FAMA really have the bandwidth to do that 18:39:13 <kital> yes i have 18:39:23 <kital> and rsc is able to support 18:39:23 <susmit> kital, yes, I proposed that...but will not that create another filter? 18:39:40 <susmit> kital, I am also able to do that 18:39:49 <susmit> if you need :) 18:39:57 <kital> susmit: it is a filter but is not so much work and will filter out the people who will not reply the first mail 18:40:33 <kital> susmit: i know you are a part of FAmA ;) 18:40:42 <kital> susmit: thanks for that 18:40:42 <susmit> we can ask the mentors how they feel about it 18:40:56 <kital> yes this is the next proposal i want to make 18:41:12 <kital> all mentors who replied thought it is good to meet 18:41:14 <susmit> we can modify the diagram that you have..and send it over for review 18:41:19 <kital> so i will call them for a meeting 18:41:30 <susmit> ok...a meeting will also do 18:41:35 * ke4qqq is ambivalent about the idea - but I am not doing the work - so I'd defer to susmit and kital's judgement. 18:41:46 <kital> aggregate - and interpret the answers in the invitation 18:41:51 <Southern_Gentlem> ? 18:42:04 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: go ahead 18:42:25 <Southern_Gentlem> anyway we can make the 14 days like 21 days 18:43:00 <Southern_Gentlem> give the candidates time to start absorbing more of the information we are throwing at them in the joining pages 18:43:02 <tatica> +1 18:43:03 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: for the prefilter? 18:43:25 <kital> or for the mentoring period? 18:43:37 <kital> the mentoring period can as long as you wish 18:43:41 <Southern_Gentlem> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_explore_fedora 18:43:53 <Southern_Gentlem> prefilter 18:44:00 <kital> but if you say in the most cases 14 is a too short period anyway we should change that! 18:44:14 <Southern_Gentlem> that is alot of info for them to start digesting in 2 weeks 18:44:29 * ke4qqq has had no one who has made it in 14 days, but even still that's a very small sample set to judge from. 18:44:52 * tatica neither 18:45:07 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: i add that to the survey 18:45:18 <tatica> I think the only people that get approved before the 14 days is because is already a well known contributor 18:45:22 <kital> and will keep it as a discussion point in the mentoring meeting 18:45:30 <Southern_Gentlem> tatica, +1 18:45:42 <tatica> and those that we ask to join the ambassadors group 18:45:46 <tatica> beside that... nop 18:46:57 <kital> so is famsco ok with my proposal? so i will call mentors for a meeting aggregate - and interpret the answers in the invitation - with the goal to discuss the survey and possible pre-filter 18:47:02 <kital> ? 18:47:10 <tatica> +1 18:47:13 <ke4qqq> +1 from me 18:47:32 <Southern_Gentlem> kital i see people seeing the link i posted and 14 days and saying the hech with it 18:47:39 <Southern_Gentlem> k 18:47:59 <susmit> kital, ok 18:47:59 <kital> hech means hell ? or something like that 18:48:06 <Southern_Gentlem> heck 18:48:14 <ke4qqq> kital: yes 18:48:15 <Southern_Gentlem> nice way of saying hell 18:48:43 <tatica> lol 18:49:04 <kital> ;) so we want to make sure this people get prefiltered through FAmA and Mentors can concentrate on candidates who are promising 18:49:38 <susmit> I want that...but will wait for other mentors 18:50:20 <kital> are you ok when i post the outcome of this survey to the Ambassadors list and blog about it - or is it too controverse for this? 18:50:41 <ke4qqq> kital: blog away/post away - no controversy that I can see 18:51:05 <kital> great 18:51:25 <kital> should we move on? 18:51:28 * ke4qqq wants to be sure - I don't think we are/should delegate the pre-filter decision to mentors - I think that's a purely famsco decision - but I'd like input on what those filters should be both from fama and mentors. 18:51:40 <kital> ke4qqq: +1 18:51:44 <susmit> +1 18:51:48 * ke4qqq works for moving on. 18:52:20 <kital> we have two more topics Our Ambassador Conduct needs some love ? and Private information in famsco trac? 18:52:29 <kital> i would like to close Private information in famsco trac? 18:52:43 <ke4qqq> +1 18:52:56 <kital> because we learned we need a place where all famsco members can see payment informations? 18:52:58 * ke4qqq will be happy to send out that email if no one else wants to 18:53:14 <kital> and that it is a problem if they are only stored on one persons computer 18:54:03 <susmit> yes, it is going nowhere...we can not see a way it can be opened to public. Let's accept it and close the issue. 18:54:25 <ke4qqq> +1 susmit 18:54:50 <kital> #agreed to close the topic "Private information in famsco trac" 18:55:07 <kital> #topic Our Ambassador Conduct needs some love ? 18:55:21 <kital> i think this is something we have to work on long-term 18:55:28 <ke4qqq> are we going to send out a notice to f-a-l to that effect 18:56:11 <kital> there was already a post on Ambassadors 18:56:12 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014721.html 18:56:40 <ke4qqq> sorry was referring to private trac topic 18:56:44 <kital> but i understood this is something that famsco should be in charge 18:57:11 <kital> ke4qqq: this decission will be posted with the monthly report as a achievement 18:57:15 <kital> or decission 18:57:17 <kital> ;) 18:57:20 <ke4qqq> ok 18:57:38 <kital> i think this is transparent and will not raise another new long discussion 18:57:52 * ke4qqq needs to depart, I apologize for leaving early. 18:58:59 <kital> so what do you think how can we can get our conduct in a better shape 18:59:20 <kital> we have two minutes left anyway ke4qqq - thanks for being around ;) 18:59:34 <susmit> kital, obviously someone needs to work on it :) 19:00:09 <kital> my problem is Max put the "need some love" up here 19:00:22 <kital> and i would like to know what is wrong with it 19:00:31 <kital> so should we ask him next meeting 19:00:32 <kital> ? 19:01:01 <tatica> yup 19:01:20 <tatica> maybe this topic needs all involved to have a proper feedback 19:01:20 <susmit> well, for a start, it is unreadable and poorly formatted 19:02:08 <susmit> also it does not have enough points to cover all that is expected from an ambassador 19:02:27 <susmit> EOF. 19:02:45 <kital> if i read "we suggest to wear our hat" it is already made worse with so-called corrections 19:03:18 <susmit> :) 19:04:18 <kital> susmit: i think we need some points in the conduct which are vital how we interact and that we represent Fedora in a way that makes it impossible to claim his own opinion in public 19:04:43 <kital> i know this is horrible english sorry 19:05:11 <susmit> no problem, we are getting the idea 19:05:30 <kital> own opinion in public if they act as Ambassadors 19:06:56 <susmit> how do you want to go for it? 19:07:00 <kital> can we agree to think over this topic till next meeting 19:07:07 <susmit> yes, please 19:07:50 <kital> ok then i would tend to close for today ? 19:07:55 <susmit> yes 19:08:01 <kital> tatica: any topic from your side 19:08:14 <tatica> not for this meeting 19:08:30 <kital> #endmeeting