18:06:30 <kital> #startmeeting FAmSCo Meeting 2010-07-26
18:06:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 26 18:06:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:06:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:06:40 <kital> #topic RollCall
18:06:46 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:06:50 <ke4qqq> David Nalley
18:06:52 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:06:55 <tatica> Maria Leandro
18:07:04 <kital> hi susmit good to see you ;)
18:07:13 <susmit> hi kital
18:07:16 <susmit> hi tatica
18:07:29 <tatica> susmit, hi :D
18:07:50 <susmit> for 4 people, the "worst case" handshake is of 12 rounds :)
18:07:58 <kital> agenda for today can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
18:08:13 <kital> susmit: ;)
18:08:40 <kital> #topic Ambassadors FAQ
18:09:00 <kital> a lot good work is done by susmit
18:09:02 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_FAQ
18:09:35 <kital> any update susmit ?
18:09:50 <susmit> I have been unable to work on it last week, so it is in status quo.
18:10:14 <kital> ok so we keep it ongoing
18:10:18 <susmit> yes
18:10:21 <kital> thanks for the work already done!!!
18:10:48 <kital> any more to add here
18:10:49 <kital> ?
18:10:51 <kital> 3
18:10:55 <kital> 2
18:11:02 <kital> 1
18:11:08 <kital> #topic answers from the Mentors Survey
18:11:24 <kital> i collected the answers from the mentors survey here
18:11:32 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey
18:11:48 <kital> it is an interesting read and i see some quick wins
18:12:09 <kital> like get the Wiki Page done before contacting a Mentor
18:13:00 <kital> i was a bit wondering because only one NA Ambassdor answered the survey
18:13:19 <ke4qqq> what do you wonder about?
18:13:28 <kital> because only one NA Ambassdor answered the survey
18:13:45 <tatica> how many mentors get the survey?
18:13:55 <kital> s/Ambassador/mentor
18:13:58 <kital> tatica: all
18:14:09 <kital> and i sent reminders
18:14:13 <tatica> numbers, how many did answer and how many didnt?
18:14:18 * ke4qqq is fail and didn't answer it
18:14:26 <kital> 7 answers
18:14:31 * tatica was almost fail... thanks to kital reminder
18:15:05 <kital> 14 mentors overall
18:15:13 <tatica> so, half
18:15:49 <kital> ah no forgot one 15
18:16:03 <tatica> then, we only have to check if those mentors that didn't reply have been active for the last months
18:16:39 <Southern_Gentlem> tatica,  i saw the survey didnt like the survey thus no report
18:17:34 <tatica> Southern_Gentlem, oki
18:17:42 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: that is ok but at least tell me that you do not like would be helpful - thanks for doing it now
18:17:42 <rbergeron> didn't like the survey?
18:18:03 <tatica> there could be 4 options: they just didnt't want to answer, they don't care, they where busy or they're not arround
18:19:16 <kital> i just wanted to point it out - i think that the NA Ambassadors are the healthiest <- is this english - regional group we have right now
18:19:20 <kital> so it is ok for me
18:19:29 <ke4qqq> what do we want to do with this info now that we haave it.
18:19:33 <kital> i think we have a good base on answers anyway
18:19:35 <ke4qqq> kital: what makes you say that?
18:20:03 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey
18:20:19 <tatica> Southern_Gentlem, why it didn't like you?
18:20:47 <kital> tatica: can we discuss this elsewhere please
18:20:51 <tatica> oh, oki
18:20:54 <tatica> sry
18:20:54 <kital> ;)
18:21:23 <kital> tatica: it is done anyway and deadline is closed maybe we can enhance next time
18:21:45 <tatica> one thing that I see was the most common
18:22:50 <tatica> was that mentors doesn't want more toold (apps)
18:22:57 <tatica> maybe just impprove what we have
18:23:19 <kital> ke4qqq: i see that for mentors who answered - the expectations were mostly considered fulfilled
18:24:09 <tatica> and also, mentors want to see ambassadors do something
18:24:15 <kital> ke4qqq: we know that feedback on the accountability and transparency is also ok
18:24:26 <ke4qqq> I know that's a misrepresentation of many in NA - a significant chunk think they are essentially another filter.
18:24:32 <kital> more tooling is not needed
18:25:12 <ke4qqq> yeah I like transparency - even if it's not always the best - we saw that recently with comments from mentors on a specific ticket.
18:25:17 <kital> freedom to the mentor is something that can not match with the whish for more common sense how to value new candidates
18:25:23 <kital> this is something to improve
18:25:56 <kital> ke4qqq: it was transparent - it could have done without ticket without event notice to anyone
18:26:09 <kital> ;)
18:26:11 <ke4qqq> are you saying we need to add more requirements for mentors to check?? or am I misreading that.
18:26:20 <ke4qqq> kital: yes - and I thought that was awesome IMO
18:26:40 <kital> ke4qqq: no - this is was one or two answers want to have
18:26:55 <kital> s/was/what/
18:27:41 <kital> regional covering showing weaknesses in LATAM and India
18:27:57 <ke4qqq> yeah - I personally don't think we should add more requirements - we trust the people in place to make good decisions - nothing stops them for talking to the mentors who do have lots of requirements and adopting some or all of them.
18:28:11 <kital> ke4qqq: yes!
18:28:43 <kital> ke4qqq: more answers could have pointed this out with a clear quorum
18:28:49 <ke4qqq> is India really a weakness?? aren't there three people there - and some pretty heady requirements to begin with.
18:29:20 <kital> rahul stepped back from mentoring
18:29:25 <susmit> yeah
18:29:28 <ke4qqq> ahhh I missed that
18:29:46 <kital> i see mbuf as the perfect candidate if he is willing to do so
18:29:47 <ke4qqq> could kushal or someone else help there?
18:29:56 <kital> but this is another topic
18:30:04 <ke4qqq> yep - sorry for getting off track
18:30:14 <tatica> LATAM needs one more
18:30:21 <kital> yes ke4qqq kushal is a mentor for india only - but i meant APAC not india only sorry
18:30:32 <ke4qqq> tatica: we await your nomination.
18:30:43 <susmit> APAC can have a few more...yes
18:30:45 <ke4qqq> :)
18:30:51 <tatica> but neither Neville and I have seen anyone; there are some great guys but I personaly want to see them helping notonly Brazil, but also the rest of latam
18:30:51 <kital> yes and LATAM needs a new in Brazil - Rodrigo removed hisself from mentoring as well
18:31:07 <tatica> there are a couple of guys that are helping with the magazine, and I think we can have a start there
18:31:22 <tatica> either if they get a nomination or they train / recruit a new member
18:31:34 <ke4qqq> k
18:31:38 <tatica> is good to see the group being so active right now
18:32:07 <ke4qqq> what action items do we need to take from the survey?
18:32:44 <tatica> 1.- mentors MUST have time to be mentors
18:32:46 <kital> another point is that all considered it a quality improvement for ambassadors to have mentoring
18:33:30 * ke4qqq doesn't think our rate has changed - and I don't know what to think of that.
18:34:19 <kital> ke4qqq: rate means growing?
18:34:22 <tatica> maybe is not the quality at first
18:34:26 <ke4qqq> yes rate of growth
18:34:27 <tatica> but the will to be better
18:34:36 <kital> or rejects ?
18:35:20 <ke4qqq> rejects don't bother me so much other than it frustrates and demoralizes the mentors
18:35:40 <kital> so this is what i wanted to take out from the survey
18:36:02 <kital> let me search
18:36:20 <susmit> right...and I almost never get any reply after my first mail
18:36:32 <tatica> :\
18:36:41 <ke4qqq> susmit: same thing happens here.
18:36:49 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 susmit
18:37:01 <tatica> not with me :S
18:37:14 <tatica> my problem is not the reply; is what they write to me
18:37:18 <ke4qqq> tatica: you're prettier than the rest of us.
18:37:19 <Southern_Gentlem> but that tells me they dont want to be a ambassador in the first place
18:37:35 <susmit> ke4qqq, :)
18:37:39 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey#Can_you_think_of_any_other_improvements.2Fsuggestions_we_should_focus_in_the_future_to_have_aetter_Membership_experience.3F
18:37:44 <tatica> most of the people that contact me doesn't even help fedora, and a lot are just new users that want a @fp.org
18:37:51 <kital> let us check the 4. point on that link please
18:37:56 <tatica> ke4qqq, lol, I doubt of that reason
18:38:03 <kital> Upon applying, FAmA send the candidates pre-mentoring steps which are easy to follow and onlly upon successful completion of these steps within 14 days, the candidate move to the mentoring phase.
18:38:05 <susmit> kital, ok
18:38:58 <kital> so FAmA has to pre-approve them for mentoring in the ticket system
18:39:03 <ke4qqq> kital: that's just a different person checking to see if the pre-mentoring steps are complete - does FAMA really have the bandwidth to do that
18:39:13 <kital> yes i have
18:39:23 <kital> and rsc is able to support
18:39:23 <susmit> kital, yes, I proposed that...but will not that create another filter?
18:39:40 <susmit> kital, I am also able to do that
18:39:49 <susmit> if you need :)
18:39:57 <kital> susmit: it is a filter but is not so much work and will filter out the people who will not reply the first mail
18:40:33 <kital> susmit: i know you are a part of FAmA ;)
18:40:42 <kital> susmit: thanks for that
18:40:42 <susmit> we can ask the mentors how they feel about it
18:40:56 <kital> yes this is the next proposal i want to make
18:41:12 <kital> all mentors who replied thought it is good to meet
18:41:14 <susmit> we can modify the diagram that you have..and send it over for review
18:41:19 <kital> so i will call them for a meeting
18:41:30 <susmit> ok...a meeting will also do
18:41:35 * ke4qqq is ambivalent about the idea - but I am not doing the work - so I'd defer to susmit and kital's judgement.
18:41:46 <kital> aggregate - and interpret the answers in the invitation
18:41:51 <Southern_Gentlem> ?
18:42:04 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: go ahead
18:42:25 <Southern_Gentlem> anyway we can make the 14 days like 21 days
18:43:00 <Southern_Gentlem> give the candidates time to start absorbing more of the information we are throwing at them in the joining pages
18:43:02 <tatica> +1
18:43:03 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: for the prefilter?
18:43:25 <kital> or for the mentoring period?
18:43:37 <kital> the mentoring period can as long as you wish
18:43:41 <Southern_Gentlem> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_explore_fedora
18:43:53 <Southern_Gentlem> prefilter
18:44:00 <kital> but if you say in the most cases 14 is a too short period anyway we should change that!
18:44:14 <Southern_Gentlem> that is alot of info for them to start digesting in 2 weeks
18:44:29 * ke4qqq has had no one who has made it in 14 days, but even still that's a very small sample set to judge from.
18:44:52 * tatica neither
18:45:07 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: i add that to the survey
18:45:18 <tatica> I think the only people that get approved before the 14 days is because is already a well known contributor
18:45:22 <kital> and will keep it as a discussion point in the mentoring meeting
18:45:30 <Southern_Gentlem> tatica, +1
18:45:42 <tatica> and those that we ask to join the ambassadors group
18:45:46 <tatica> beside that... nop
18:46:57 <kital> so is famsco ok with my proposal? so i will call mentors for a meeting aggregate - and interpret the answers in the invitation -  with the goal to discuss the survey and possible pre-filter
18:47:02 <kital> ?
18:47:10 <tatica> +1
18:47:13 <ke4qqq> +1 from me
18:47:32 <Southern_Gentlem> kital i see people seeing the link i posted and 14 days and saying the hech with it
18:47:39 <Southern_Gentlem> k
18:47:59 <susmit> kital, ok
18:47:59 <kital> hech means hell ? or something like that
18:48:06 <Southern_Gentlem> heck
18:48:14 <ke4qqq> kital: yes
18:48:15 <Southern_Gentlem> nice way of saying hell
18:48:43 <tatica> lol
18:49:04 <kital> ;) so we want to make sure this people get prefiltered through FAmA and Mentors can concentrate on candidates who are promising
18:49:38 <susmit> I want that...but will wait for other mentors
18:50:20 <kital> are you ok when i post the outcome of this survey to the Ambassadors list and blog about it - or is it too controverse for this?
18:50:41 <ke4qqq> kital: blog away/post away - no controversy that I can see
18:51:05 <kital> great
18:51:25 <kital> should we move on?
18:51:28 * ke4qqq wants to be sure - I don't think we are/should delegate the pre-filter decision to mentors - I think that's a purely famsco decision - but I'd like input on what those filters should be both from fama and mentors.
18:51:40 <kital> ke4qqq: +1
18:51:44 <susmit> +1
18:51:48 * ke4qqq works for moving on.
18:52:20 <kital> we have two more topics Our Ambassador Conduct needs some love ? and Private information in famsco trac?
18:52:29 <kital> i would like to close Private information in famsco trac?
18:52:43 <ke4qqq> +1
18:52:56 <kital> because we learned we need a place where all famsco members can see payment informations?
18:52:58 * ke4qqq will be happy to send out that email if no one else wants to
18:53:14 <kital> and that it is a problem if they are only stored on one persons computer
18:54:03 <susmit> yes, it is going nowhere...we can not see a way it can be  opened to public. Let's accept it and close the issue.
18:54:25 <ke4qqq> +1 susmit
18:54:50 <kital> #agreed to close the topic  "Private information in famsco trac"
18:55:07 <kital> #topic Our Ambassador Conduct needs some love ?
18:55:21 <kital> i think this is something we have to work on long-term
18:55:28 <ke4qqq> are we going to send out a notice to f-a-l to that effect
18:56:11 <kital> there was already a post on Ambassadors
18:56:12 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014721.html
18:56:40 <ke4qqq> sorry was referring to private trac topic
18:56:44 <kital> but i understood this is something that famsco should be in charge
18:57:11 <kital> ke4qqq: this decission will be posted with the monthly report as a achievement
18:57:15 <kital> or decission
18:57:17 <kital> ;)
18:57:20 <ke4qqq> ok
18:57:38 <kital> i think this is transparent and will not raise another new long discussion
18:57:52 * ke4qqq needs to depart, I apologize for leaving early.
18:58:59 <kital> so what do you think how can we can get our conduct in a better shape
18:59:20 <kital> we have two minutes left anyway ke4qqq - thanks for being around ;)
18:59:34 <susmit> kital, obviously someone needs to work on it :)
19:00:09 <kital> my problem is Max put the "need some love" up here
19:00:22 <kital> and i would like to know what is wrong with it
19:00:31 <kital> so should we ask him next meeting
19:00:32 <kital> ?
19:01:01 <tatica> yup
19:01:20 <tatica> maybe this topic needs all involved to have a proper feedback
19:01:20 <susmit> well, for a start, it is unreadable and poorly formatted
19:02:08 <susmit> also it does not have enough points to cover all that is expected from an ambassador
19:02:27 <susmit> EOF.
19:02:45 <kital> if i read "we suggest to wear our hat" it is already made worse with so-called corrections
19:03:18 <susmit> :)
19:04:18 <kital> susmit: i think we need some points in the conduct which are vital how we interact and that we represent Fedora in a way that makes it impossible to claim his own opinion in public
19:04:43 <kital> i know this is horrible english sorry
19:05:11 <susmit> no problem, we are getting the idea
19:05:30 <kital> own opinion in public if they act as Ambassadors
19:06:56 <susmit> how do you want to go for it?
19:07:00 <kital> can we agree to think over this topic till next meeting
19:07:07 <susmit> yes, please
19:07:50 <kital> ok then i would tend to close for today ?
19:07:55 <susmit> yes
19:08:01 <kital> tatica: any topic from your side
19:08:14 <tatica> not for this meeting
19:08:30 <kital> #endmeeting