20:00:26 #startmeeting fedora marketing 20:00:26 Meeting started Tue Aug 10 20:00:26 2010 UTC. The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:26 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:33 * rrix stumbles in 20:00:41 * ke4qqq is sorta here 20:00:42 #meetingname fedora marketing 20:00:42 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing' 20:01:04 no excuses, i slept for 2 hours since 8am yesterday :) 20:01:16 * rbergeron peeks around for others 20:01:40 * rrix needs to hop in the shower real quicklike, gimme ten minutes 20:01:54 thanks for sharing :) 20:02:08 #topic Agenda 20:02:14 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda 20:02:37 Sooooo - I see that everyone got started on talking points last week - thanks for that :) 20:02:40 Yay! 20:02:51 * rbergeron notes we also need to kick off the F14 release slogan process this week. 20:02:58 #topic F14 Release Slogan 20:03:06 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan 20:03:24 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP 20:03:49 So - we need to do a few things wrt release slogan (which are quick, so I'm covering this before we get to talking points wrapup) 20:04:38 #1: We need to add some information into http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan under "Important Ideas" - themes, artwork, etc. 20:04:51 * rbergeron notes that she is realllllllly slow today, so plz forgive my slowness 20:05:25 #2: We need to do the call for release slogan ideas after #1 is done. 20:05:39 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP#Announce_a_call_for_release_slogan_ideas 20:05:49 luckily, we already have an email template for that. 20:06:34 * stickster adds some themes from the name choice of Laughlin 20:07:02 thanks, stickster :) 20:07:30 If we can add that stuff in by the end of the meeting - I don't think there is much to do there - I can shoot out the email, if someone else wants to blog about it that would be awesome. 20:07:36 * rbergeron pokes at ke4qqq since he's here ;) 20:08:22 orrrr anyone else - I can blog about it as well, it works out well if we have a few posts over a few days so that people eventually see it. 20:08:24 * stickster adds link to the art page for the F14 release 20:09:06 #action rbergeron to send out call for release slogan ideas 20:09:27 #info everyone, please blog about it - more eyeballs = more slogan ideas :) 20:09:27 rbergeron: I'll help you with that -- I'll microblog it and I may add a blog entry too 20:09:42 stickster: microblogging +1 20:09:49 thanks for noting that 20:10:06 rbergeron: I'll point to your blog entry, so feel free to poke me when it's up 20:10:35 * rbergeron notes that microblogging might be a good thing to add to the SOP for this as well as talking points if we didn't do that (I'm assuming someone did and is awesome) :) 20:10:47 #action rbergeron to poke stickster when her blog post is up 20:11:05 okay - I think that about wraps that up. 20:11:27 #topic F14 Talking Points 20:11:45 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_Talking_Points 20:12:04 * rrix saunters back in 20:12:16 * stickster added microblogging to TP SOP 20:12:33 it looks like we have a few things left to populate on the talking points. 20:12:50 >.< what's left? 20:13:17 KDE - libjpeg-turbo 20:13:26 sugar.90 20:13:43 * rbergeron isn't sure if those got added in later - looks like there have been some recent revisions 20:14:01 rbergeron: We've been lax about *removing* things from the desktop area for TPs' 20:14:14 As rrix and others noted last time... desktop is fairly light this release. 20:14:38 I suspect that's because many of the people creating upstream features are working this cycle on making sure they're hardened in RHEL6. 20:14:39 as in - things we'd normally put under spins are going under desktop :) 20:14:44 rbergeron: Right. 20:14:46 I'm still of the opinion that KDE shouldn't be a talking point, if we're going to stick to the "default desktop" idea.. 20:14:53 rrix: I have to agree. 20:15:16 not to say I agree with that idea, but we need a single focus in our marketig :) 20:15:20 So shall we move that stuff under spins, then? 20:15:41 rbergeron: i'll do kde release talking points like I did for 12 20:15:43 * rbergeron notes that there is some grammar type stuff that needs fixing as well 20:15:53 rbergeron: I can take a gander at the grammer. 20:15:56 er, grammar. 20:16:00 Maybe the speling too. 20:16:02 ;-) 20:16:05 hehe 20:16:22 * stickster just added microblogging to the release slogan SOP page. 20:16:44 * rbergeron wonders - if we shouldn't have KDE - then what about sugar, meego? 20:17:02 at least in the desktop section, that is 20:17:15 I think the desktop section should touch on the Desktop release 20:17:33 MeeGo is a revamped/new spin 20:18:24 Feel free to edit that stuff as we go. 20:18:45 So in the past we've broken out spins into their own section. I'm hearing that we want to continue that trend? 20:19:09 +1 20:20:17 stickster, jsmith - yes? 20:20:34 * rbergeron suspects stickster is moving stuff around on the wiki - not sure if she should go in and edit over him or not 20:20:36 Yes 20:21:04 rbergeron: Yikes, before you save -- copy your text buffer some place safe 20:21:19 stickster - i haven't started :) 20:21:32 * rbergeron just reloaded and saw she fouled up the capitalization there on the wiki page 20:21:37 rbergeron: Ah, then you're safe to do it now -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_talking_points 20:21:40 * stickster fixed 20:21:56 I think it was wrong on the Marketing page, I'll fix that quicklike 20:23:29 Fixed 20:23:52 * rrix has to jet, sorry :( 20:24:06 * rbergeron waves to rrix 20:24:15 bbl 20:24:16 Bye rrix, thank 20:24:18 *thanks 20:24:26 rbergeron: The libjpeg-turbo needs some material, I can add that too. 20:25:01 indeed, it does 20:25:30 so - rrix indicated he'd be doing a separate talking points for KDE - should I delete that altogether? 20:25:38 rbergeron: Yes, for now 20:25:43 * rbergeron can't remember what happened last time around 20:25:55 okay, i'm editing / moving stuff real quicklike. 20:26:04 * stickster is working on libjpeg-turbo 20:26:39 I lied, here for another 30 or so 20:26:53 rbergeron: I applied to TP SOP to the KDE SIG :) 20:27:38 rrix: you rock 20:27:45 no u 20:27:54 heh 20:28:22 * rbergeron hugs rrix, i owe u pizzatime 20:28:30 okay, i've moved the spins 20:28:38 mmm 20:29:41 OK, done with libjpeg too 20:29:49 yay 20:30:01 rbergeron: So can I take a moment to talk about the overall talking points themes? 20:30:13 I said something about this in the last meeting, but I figured you'd want to hear it too 20:30:19 sure. 20:30:27 * rbergeron scrolled up through the last meeting but wasn't around 20:30:29 * jsmith pays close attention too 20:30:50 I was talking about this to jsmith earlier as well. Basically, we know that this time around we're a little light on desktop features. That's to be expected since GNOME 3, part of the default offering, was pushed back to March 2011. 20:31:34 Also, a substantial number of Fedora contributors working directly on upstream desktop-related projects happen to be very involved with RHEL 6 right now. 20:32:08 * rbergeron nods, i've heard about this RHEL 6 thing around the house :) 20:32:28 So whereas we've had a succession of releases chock-full of *lots* of desktop features -- this release is more about some of the "under the hood" improvements. 20:32:50 * rbergeron nods 20:33:02 Didn't we say that about 12 too? 20:33:10 (honest question) 20:33:36 Probably... 20:33:43 Big desktop changes are happening less and less often 20:33:48 (which is a good thing, imho) 20:33:50 rrix: Actually we had quite a few big changes in F12 too -- PackageKit enhancements, NetworkManager enhancements, Ogg Theora video, and deltarpm 20:33:55 those were all desktop related 20:34:05 This is true 20:34:17 * rrix doesn't remember the days of Yore so well :P 20:34:45 rrix: just sub "13" or "12" in for "14" in the talking points wiki ;D 20:34:51 But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the whole point behind putting newer stuff into Fedora early helps people participate in the FOSS feedback loop -- trying things out, filing bugs and enhancements, and then getting the fruits of that labor back fairly quickly 20:34:56 lol 20:35:11 stickster: +1 20:35:22 So in media like our one-page release notes, we don't need to kick out every single desktop thing listed there just because it's not brand new this release. 20:35:31 and i htink we should not make people think we do not care about desktop 20:35:31 NetworkManager *still* kicks butt. 20:35:38 (for example) 20:35:40 * rbergeron nods 20:36:12 And there *have* been some improvements in a lot of areas that were the "new shiny" features in previous releases 20:36:16 and i'm sure we are still continuing to add things like - more printers for automatic installation - more webcam support, etc 20:36:18 Something that I suggested to Jared and that we're going to suggest to the Red Hat Creative team is that we do a sort of retrospective on all the amazing stuff that happened between Fedora 10/11 and 14 20:36:35 but we can't really call "even more webcam support" a feature in every release 20:36:41 rbergeron: Agreed 20:36:48 but it's probably good to highlight once we get to one-page release notes time. 20:37:10 Yeah, we don't want to just laze around on that stuff. But we also want to make sure people who didn't see anything about the last release, can still appreciate all the good stuff that Just Works in *this* release too 20:38:24 * rbergeron nods. 20:38:53 But that stuff is going to stay in with one page release notes - not going into Talking Points, which are features from feature list, essentially. 20:38:59 rbergeron: Right 20:39:12 who's on first? :) i think we're all on the same train here. 20:39:52 And I think where jsmith is going to be interested in this is that interviewers will probably ask him questions about that -- like, "Hey, I noticed you're light on desktop features." And it's important for us to give some context around that. 20:39:53 lol 20:41:21 * rbergeron agrees 20:41:57 That was all I had :-) 20:41:58 eof 20:42:58 rbergeron: What's next for TPs then? 20:43:13 Other than grammar love - 20:43:46 * rbergeron must be tired - she was looking at F13 talking points for a second there 20:43:58 hah 20:44:06 The sugar spin point needs love - it's empty. 20:44:20 Maybe we can get pbrobinson to help with that 20:44:37 * rbergeron notes that sdake thinks the gdb-heap feature sounds awesome 20:44:50 mchua_afk is on leave right now, but she might be able to add a few sentences there to help us out 20:45:15 It is pretty awesome 20:45:18 indeed, she is 20:45:20 * stickster doesn't understand it, but OK! :-D 20:45:20 also fedora-developed :) 20:45:27 * rbergeron applauds mchua_afk for not being on when she's on leave :) 20:45:31 * stickster reads the point... and now he understands! 20:46:04 that's what the talking points are for - turning them into english :) 20:46:19 rrix: indeed :) 20:46:47 so - other than sugar, and some grammar love, which I can apply tonight - I think these are about set. 20:46:51 * stickster is going through and correcting style/grammar where he can 20:47:05 ipmiutil still doesn't make sense 20:47:09 GNUstep is a reimplementation of the NextStep environment. It's a GUI framework based of the Objective-C programming language which is part of the gcc. It is also available n other Linux distribution like Debian or Gentoo Linux. Programm packages are easyly portable. 20:47:10 Maybe ke4qqq can help with that one. 20:47:15 * rbergeron has eyes to poke out there 20:47:20 what can I help with? 20:47:28 ke4qqq: ipmiutil 20:47:30 stickster: ke4qqq said that the ipmi one takes a lot of prior knowledge.. I couldn't grok it even after he explained it ;P 20:47:55 So we can't add like a sentence that says, "Here's what IPMI does"? 20:48:09 yeah - I gotta say I find it very hard to explain well without referring to long multipage explanations. :( 20:48:20 * stickster consults 20:48:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPMI 20:48:42 just copypasta the first sentence? ;) 20:49:11 I tried to update that section 20:49:13 * stickster tried somethin' 20:49:17 Obviously I didn't do a very good job :-( 20:49:19 jsmith: Oops 20:49:26 I can try to explain it here, if that helps 20:49:36 jsmith: Did I just overwrite you, or was that an earlier change you made? 20:49:43 * stickster just changed the page, try this out: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_talking_points#ipmiutil 20:49:43 I made the change last week 20:49:47 ke4qqq: is it something like nagios or such, then? 20:49:58 Nope 20:49:58 nagios is more like an alert system I think 20:50:01 Let me explain 20:50:03 rrix: no- though nagios can query it 20:50:20 Many modern server-class machines have what's called a "baseband controller" 20:50:32 HP calls it iLO, Dell calls it DRAC 20:50:56 Oracle, nee Sun calls it LOM 20:50:56 it's a management standard for monitoring hardware information. Monitoring hardware resources on a motherboard, etc. It uses a bus to allows the hardware on a board to talk to each other - messages for reset, get the temperature of the chip, set the fan control speed, etc - all in a standard way. 20:51:02 The baseband controller allows you to do things like query the motherboard sensors, reboot the machine, even have remote access to the console 20:51:10 20:51:14 IPMI is the protocol used to query the baseband controller 20:51:41 In times past, it was difficult (nigh unto impossible in some cases) to actually interact with the controller in a meaningful way 20:51:50 (lots of complicated switches, no sane defaults, etc.) 20:51:59 ipmiutil makes it much much easier 20:52:47 Clear as mud yet? 20:52:49 * rbergeron notes that sdake talks much faster than she can type, and also used to work with the guy who wrote openipmi when he was at mvista 20:53:06 jsmith: makes more sense, I think 20:53:11 can we copypasta you? :) 20:53:21 rrix: CC-0 20:53:28 rrix: If I say it in IRC, it's yours! 20:53:33 hehe 20:54:56 okay - so is ke4qqq or rrix under the bus for this one? :) 20:55:06 * rrix points to david and runs 20:55:12 Naw... I can if he doesn't want to :) 20:55:37 I can help a bit too -- making sure what you write is technically accurate, etc. 20:55:38 feel free to ask me 20:55:45 task 20:55:48 typing fail 20:56:23 #action ke4qqq to put ipmiutil into english with more information about what IPMI actually is, etc 20:56:44 rbergeron: ke4qqq I applied some language there already if you want to look at it/build on it/whatevah 20:57:04 * rbergeron reloads 20:57:09 * stickster KISS 20:57:18 stickster puts the second S in KISS 20:58:38 Anything else on this bit? 20:58:52 stickster: i'm totally lost 20:58:57 about the KISS thing 20:59:11 "keep it simple, stupid" 20:59:28 ohhhhh 20:59:35 yeah, i'm slow today. :) 20:59:37 It's OK, we can move on :_) 20:59:41 ohhh I thought it was 'keep it simple, stickster' :) 20:59:42 * rbergeron notes the time 21:00:23 so - ke4qqq, if you want to add anything, do so - I will revisit the grammar this evening after I take a nap - We need to ping probinson or mchua about the sugar TP. 21:00:37 Anyone else see anything glaring that needs love? 21:00:43 ok - I'll get my changes committed sometime tonight 21:00:48 Not here 21:01:31 awesome. 21:01:35 rbergeron: jsmith: *: One general thing to think about -- the summary sentence at the end of a TP should concentrate on "How can you be awesome using this TP?" 21:01:43 As opposed to "We have this thing now." 21:02:11 stickster: are you referring to the part that is italicized? 21:02:17 rbergeron: Exactly. 21:02:27 that's what i thought. 21:02:52 #action rbergeron to wrap up grammar tonight 21:03:09 Example: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_14_talking_points&diff=191826&oldid=191825 21:03:17 #action rbergeron ping pbrobinson / mchua for sugar spin TP notes 21:03:47 I'll email the list tonight when I'm done - and hopefully we can get some info in on Sugar - and we can have this wrapped in a few days, or as soon as we have the Sugar notes in. 21:04:14 #info I'll email the list tonight when I'm done - and hopefully we can get some info in on Sugar - and we can have this wrapped in a few days, or as soon as we have the Sugar notes in. 21:06:07 anything else? 21:06:22 * rbergeron will close out the meeting if not. 21:06:32 rbergeron: Who's attending release readiness meeting from Marketing? 21:06:41 (if anyone) 21:06:47 stickster: i'm guessing that would be me :) 21:06:57 Okey doke 21:07:00 is there an email list for that? 21:07:13 meeting reminder somewhere? 21:07:23 rbergeron: I think it goes out to people individually and maybe to logistics too 21:07:42 stickster: have you gotten a meeting reminder yet? 21:08:00 rbergeron: Not that I saw 21:08:09 rbergeron: I'll check on that for you. 21:08:11 Our go/no-go meeting is tomorrow -- last I heard there's a substantial chance we'll end up with a slip. Too many things are still fluxy on the most recent RC. 21:08:19 If that happens, the meeting may be postponed. 21:09:12 stickster: thanks 21:09:22 * rbergeron hasn't seen anything - does that come from poelstra? 21:09:35 traditionally I get such an invitation and didn't. I see poelcats notice to devel-announce 21:12:26 hrmmm 21:12:39 yamlino 21:13:43 okay. /me is going to end the meeting :) 21:13:48 * rbergeron counts backwards from 87 21:13:53 44 21:13:55 12 21:13:56 8 21:13:58 3 21:13:59 2 21:14:04 #endmeeting