20:00:08 <rbergeron> #startmeeting marketing meeting
20:00:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 17 20:00:08 2010 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:14 <rbergeron> #meetingname Fedora Marketing
20:00:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing'
20:00:40 <rrix> Hey hey!
20:00:44 * jsmith is here
20:00:58 * rbergeron waves to all
20:01:04 <rbergeron> anyone else about?
20:01:06 * stickster 
20:01:23 * rbergeron will hold a minute and see who else pops in
20:01:31 <rbergeron> (while I pull up the release slogan SOP, lol)
20:02:07 <rrix> :)
20:02:25 * rrix 1/3 through f-a-b backwash... will flounder in that for a while
20:02:46 <rbergeron> rrix: trust me, it will be there after the meeting :)
20:02:53 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
20:03:02 <rrix> hehe, I know, I just don't have all after noon :P
20:03:15 <rbergeron> So - today is the day when we go through potential release slogans - pick out a few - and send them onwards for a final selection.
20:03:25 <rbergeron> And that is pretty much the agenda for today.
20:03:31 <rbergeron> #topic Release Slogan Selection
20:03:43 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP
20:04:07 <rbergeron> #info for anyone who is interested in figuring out who a release slogan is chosen, the referenced link is a great place to look at our process.
20:04:13 * stickster points to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP#Choose_a_release_slogan
20:04:23 <rbergeron> thanks, stickster!
20:04:38 <rbergeron> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan
20:05:03 <rbergeron> #info Release Slogans for F14 have been proposed by many people - thank you!
20:05:07 <rbergeron> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan#New_slogan_ideas
20:05:17 <rbergeron> #chair stickster jsmith
20:05:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith rbergeron stickster
20:05:53 <rbergeron> stickster: Last time - I think we went through this list and picked out some of the ones that really stood out and talked about them. How do you think that went?
20:05:58 <stickster> rbergeron: IIRC, last release, we encouraged input from participants, going around the meeting asking for people to give a list of their three favorites, and then using that we figured out if there was consensus on a few of them on which we could debate further
20:06:03 <stickster> Ha, *jinx
20:06:11 <rbergeron> no kidding - i was going to say - you really answered that fast :)
20:07:02 <rbergeron> Okay. Soooo - Just to recap - we're looking for a few things here:
20:07:37 <rbergeron> #info Slogan should be short - an active sentence, like a command - positive, and reflect the idea that Fedora helps the user achieve something great.
20:07:45 <rbergeron> #info Tying in with the themes from Artwork is great too.
20:08:11 <rbergeron> Stickster, jsmith, anyone else - would you like to point out 3 or 4 (since we seem to be lacking in humans here today) that you think are good?
20:08:34 * stickster is putting his list together right now
20:08:54 * rbergeron is too.
20:08:57 <jsmith> rbergeron: I'm putting my list together -- although it'll probably be more than 3 or 4
20:09:19 * rrix is considering a nap, folks, may not be too active :(
20:09:25 <rrix> coffee dind't really.. work >.<
20:09:34 <stickster> rbergeron: I like "Evolve" quite a bit
20:09:40 * rbergeron really likes - emerge - evolve -
20:09:42 <rbergeron> yes, I do too.
20:10:37 <rbergeron> I think it is fairly reflective os not just what we want users to do with Fedora - but also what Fedora does itself, continually.
20:10:49 <stickster> rbergeron: It's a tough list... not many that followed the guidelines, and fewer that caught the topic of "emergence"
20:11:00 * rbergeron nods
20:11:07 <jsmith> It is a tough list
20:11:20 <rbergeron> I think "emergence" was quite tougher to come up with strong words for vs. some of our previous themes.
20:11:24 * jsmith has narrowed it down to six that he really likes, plus a combination of two of those for a seventh
20:11:50 * stickster looks back at the previous slogans to make a point...
20:12:17 <stickster> The slogan generally involves a couple things -- *action* on the part of the user, and also a feeling of empowerment
20:12:29 * rbergeron likes the idea of breaking through, but not that particular working - maybe "break out," or "break the mold," etc.
20:13:06 <jsmith> rbergeron: Yeah... I tried "breaking down barriers", but I like "Break out" better
20:13:21 * rbergeron just doesn't want to wind up being a commercial for skin cream ;)
20:13:42 <stickster> "Break free" has a connotation of freedom.
20:13:45 * jsmith also combined two options into "Freedom defined; the future delivered"
20:14:05 <jsmith> stickster: Ooh, good one!  But I'm afraid they'll say "Fedora breaks free(dom)"
20:14:13 <stickster> jsmith: Fair point
20:14:14 <rbergeron> stickster: yeah - what jsmith said ;)
20:14:25 <stickster> "Be free"
20:14:36 <jsmith> What if we combine two...
20:14:41 <stickster> Then they could say "Fedora frees bees"
20:14:42 <jsmith> "Freedom defined; the future delivered"
20:14:48 <rbergeron> does "be free" tie back to emergence?
20:15:01 <rbergeron> stickster: can we get some fedora "freesbees" to throw around as swag, then?
20:15:05 <rbergeron> :)
20:15:17 <stickster> rbergeron: No, I'm off the list because it's pretty hard to find something that has an active voice
20:15:39 <stickster> jsmith: which I think is why I don't warm immediately to "Freedom defined; the future delivered"
20:15:41 * rbergeron agrees
20:15:51 <rbergeron> Delivering the Future would be more active
20:15:54 <leoboulton> Hi All... sorry I'm late.
20:16:05 <rbergeron> or Deliver the Future
20:16:18 * stickster points again to the idea of user empowerment
20:16:22 <rbergeron> hi leoboulton! glad you could join us.
20:16:25 <stickster> i.e. not glorifying Fedora as much as glorifying the user
20:16:29 * rbergeron nods
20:16:36 <jsmith> "Powering the Future"?
20:16:57 * stickster quails at gerunds
20:17:12 <leoboulton> How abou the thinking outside of the box?... as in use fedora to be outside of traditional Microsoft/Apple?
20:17:14 <rbergeron> gerunds?
20:17:15 * stickster never said he made this easy :-)
20:17:15 * nb is kind of around
20:17:23 <stickster> rbergeron: "-ing" words
20:17:36 <stickster> They reduce the activity of the verb to a noun
20:17:41 <rbergeron> stickster: ah - I thought you were typoing someone's name ;)
20:17:43 <jsmith> The other one I really liked was "Be more"
20:17:57 <jsmith> It's short, simple, and keeps with the "emerge" theme
20:18:00 <stickster> That's not bad
20:18:26 <stickster> I like the idea of having the materials say "Be more ____" with different possibilities for filling in that blank
20:18:31 <stickster> "Be more connected"
20:18:34 <stickster> "Be more productive"
20:18:38 <stickster> "Be more artistic"
20:18:51 <jsmith> Be more blank!
20:18:52 <rbergeron> stickster: yes.
20:18:58 * jsmith likes it
20:18:58 <leoboulton> how about just "Be more"
20:18:58 <rbergeron> jsmith: I can do that :)
20:19:08 <nb> stickster, +1
20:19:21 <leoboulton> I like the Be More approach... opens many doors.
20:20:21 <jsmith> I think I like it better than anything else that's been discussed so far
20:20:41 <leoboulton> My vote goes to "Be More"....
20:20:50 <stickster> Let's start playing devil's advocate and see what's bad about this one.
20:21:17 <stickster> How might you twist this slogan into something negative? Is it easy to do that?
20:21:35 <stickster> And I don't mean filling in the blank with something negative -- of course that's easy.
20:21:47 <stickster> Maybe we should state that explicitly: Negatives include "Be more busted."
20:21:49 <jsmith> The only thing I can think of is that Baltimore sometimes gets shortened to BMore...
20:22:34 <leoboulton> "Be more"... or "Be more..." with the dot dot dot?.... without it, it may lack meaning
20:22:43 * rbergeron was trying to think of things that rhyme or sound similar or silly - all i came up with is seymour - which is invoking little shop of horrors songs in my head
20:22:50 <rbergeron> I think it would be simply "Be More."
20:23:15 * rbergeron notes that someone could have the connotation of weight - Fedora is heavy, bloated, etc could be certainly twisted that way.
20:23:19 <leoboulton> I can't find a negative twist to it....
20:24:36 <rbergeron> anyone else?
20:25:02 <stickster> Really, it's all about filling in the blank
20:25:21 <rbergeron> stickster: what do you mean
20:25:40 <stickster> rbergeron: I'm just saying, that the context is all about how you fill in the "Be more _____" sentence.
20:26:07 <stickster> It's easy to fill it in with a negative and be snarky... but it's also very flexible for a positive message too.
20:26:16 <rbergeron> stickster: so - are we proposing that Be More ____ is the slogan?
20:26:20 <rbergeron> or just "Be More" ?
20:26:28 <stickster> No blank.
20:26:34 <rbergeron> okay, that's what i thought.
20:26:42 <stickster> The blank is just a tool for the things that we produce like one-page release notes, where we can put the slogan to better use.
20:26:57 <leoboulton> it's also about the "being more than something"... so I don't think it's just about filling the blank.
20:26:57 * rbergeron nods
20:27:18 * stickster is thinking even more than before, as he mentioned to rbergeron and Marketing in the previous release, that changing slogans every release may not be our most successful strategy.
20:27:24 <leoboulton> THe fact that the word 'more' is there, means it is big, encompassing many things, full of possibilities.
20:27:54 <stickster> We often come up with great slogans, that I don't doubt. I don't know if jsmith agrees with me overall about sloganeering.
20:28:16 <jsmith> stickster: I pretty much agree with you
20:28:50 <rbergeron> I'm just not hot on anything we have here - I like the "be more" idea, but I'm not, you know, jumping up and down about it.
20:29:02 <stickster> Some interesting things about "Be More":
20:29:04 <stickster> 1. it's open to interpretation
20:29:11 <stickster> 2. it's fairly positive in tone
20:29:16 <stickster> 3. it's a verb phrase
20:29:23 <stickster> 4. it's not release-specific
20:29:56 <leoboulton> 5. It's short and catchy too
20:30:04 <stickster> Point (1) is also, unfortunately, a potential minus
20:30:10 * rbergeron agrees
20:31:07 <stickster> But I think there are plenty of ways previous slogans could be misconstrued or twisted.
20:31:47 <jsmith> What if we assume for a second that "Be More" doesn't work -- are there two or three others you like as alternates?
20:31:55 * jsmith plays devil's advocate
20:32:06 * rbergeron still likes Evolve quite a bit.
20:32:14 <rbergeron> and emerge.
20:32:46 <stickster> rbergeron: the only problem I have with "Emerge" is that the 'emerge' command is well known as a core command for Gentoo Linux
20:33:06 <rbergeron> stickster: excellent point.
20:33:18 <stickster> So I think that would get a lot of head scratching and ??? printing.
20:33:25 <stickster> "Evolve" I still like.
20:33:38 <stickster> Frankly, I don't find anything else on the list that really turns me on.
20:33:48 <stickster> I don't even like my own!
20:34:46 <stickster> jsmith: What does your list look like, you didn't publish the whole thing
20:35:04 <jsmith> Be more
20:35:05 <jsmith> Future delivered
20:35:05 <jsmith> Freedom defined
20:35:05 <jsmith> (combine into "Freedom defined, the future delivered"?)
20:35:05 <jsmith> Community Delivered, Community Supported
20:35:08 <jsmith> Breaking down barriers
20:35:09 <jsmith> Breaking through
20:35:11 * jsmith floods the list
20:36:08 <stickster> So clearly, "Be more" is one we all fairly agree on.
20:36:17 * rbergeron thinks of thesaurus words for emerge - dawn, arrive, surface, rise....
20:37:14 * stickster thimking
20:38:01 * stickster finishes thimking.
20:38:15 <stickster> "Be more" has enough positives that we can weather any negatives, I think.
20:38:36 * rbergeron needs to learn how to thimk better :)
20:38:37 <leoboulton> How about "Call one forth".... the play of words? Or are we going against play of words?. I still ike "Be more" better. But given that we are discussing alternatives.
20:38:54 <stickster> "Call one forth" seems very obtuse to me
20:39:21 * jsmith doesn't like it
20:39:34 <stickster> "Call a Fedora forth?" That clashes with the proper use of "Fedora," because you can't have "a Fedora."
20:39:54 <leoboulton> just call one forth...
20:40:04 <stickster> leoboulton: But call one what?
20:40:45 <stickster> Yeah, it seems like a stretch to me.
20:41:18 * stickster can't in good conscience advocate any others on the list. The least objectionable alternative IMHO is "Get Connected," and that seems so general as to not be very Fedora-ish.
20:41:25 <leoboulton> stickster: Not sure... outside of the catchy play of words (14). It shows some "step outside", or get outside of the pack...
20:41:44 <stickster> Yeah, too obtuse.
20:41:45 * jsmith still half-likes "Break through"
20:41:50 <stickster> I don't think anyone will get it.
20:41:59 <leoboulton> I'm stretching it. Just brainstroming. It has so many negative connotations in my opinion.
20:42:02 <stickster> Sure
20:42:39 * stickster has no more to offer. jsmith, it's really down to you and rbergeron to approve something at this point.
20:42:58 <jsmith> rbergeron: Comments?  Suggestions?
20:43:12 * jsmith passes rbergeron the microphone
20:43:23 * ke4qqq offers rock, paper and scissors up to jsmith and rbergeron :)
20:43:24 <rbergeron> Let me ask this: Do we have anything critical hinging on selecting a release slogan TODAY - is it possible for us to sit on these thoughts for another day or two?
20:43:37 <rbergeron> I like "Be More" - I like "Evolve" - that is what is jumping out at me.
20:44:03 <jsmith> We need to get the slogan(s) approved by RH legal
20:44:06 <ke4qqq> is anything going to change your thoughts (it's supposed to be fast initial thoughts, not what you stew on right?)
20:44:17 * jsmith would have to look at the schedule to see when the hard deadline is
20:44:22 <leoboulton> Do we select only one? or a few?
20:44:33 <leoboulton> and then send them to legal?
20:44:33 <rbergeron> I don't think it has any dependencies.
20:44:38 <jsmith> I think it would be wise to select a primary and secondary choice
20:44:44 * rbergeron wonders if "Be More" has been used by anyone else
20:44:45 <stickster> jsmith: rbergeron: If it were me, I would send the short list you think we could live with to RH Legal.
20:44:58 <jsmith> That way, if the primary gets rejected, they can automagically look at the next without a round-trip
20:45:08 <jsmith> stickster: That's gonna be an awfully short list :-)
20:45:17 <stickster> With the knowledge that you could end up with the least pleasant choice on that list
20:45:18 <jsmith> OK, here's what I propose for the list:
20:45:26 <jsmith> "Be more"
20:45:29 <jsmith> "Evolve"
20:45:31 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: the only thing that could change my thoughts is playing around with some of the strong words to see if something better pops up.
20:45:35 <jsmith> "Break through"
20:45:46 * stickster notes that nothing *forces* us to pick a slogan, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
20:45:58 <jsmith> rbergeron: I'm willing to sit on them for 24 hours, if you think it'll help
20:46:11 * rbergeron isn't hot on "break through" - after some thought - I feel like using the word Break is just asking for trouble
20:46:13 * jsmith doesn't think 24 hours will help him
20:46:26 * stickster thinks, pull the trigger.
20:46:27 <jsmith> OK, so we're down to two entries on the list
20:46:47 <jsmith> "Be more" and "Evolve"
20:46:56 <rbergeron> I think "Be More" is probably our guy.
20:47:14 <jsmith> Right... "Be More" is definitely in the lead
20:47:20 <jsmith> with "Evolve" as the backup
20:47:26 * stickster thinks jsmith should go ahead and send both to Legal. Clearing two is as easy as clearing one, and there's no sense in an extra wait if neither clears.
20:47:31 * rbergeron nods
20:47:34 <jsmith> OK...
20:47:40 <rbergeron> +1 - I don't think I'll come up with anything.
20:47:44 <jsmith> #action jsmith to send top two choices to RH Legal
20:48:12 <stickster> rbergeron: What else is on the docket for today?
20:48:14 <rbergeron> uestion - we haven't really talked about the RH Legal part here before in this meeting - do we wait on them before making an announcement?
20:48:57 <stickster> rbergeron: That's correct
20:49:12 <stickster> rbergeron: We don't have that in the schedule, actually -- poelcat was asking about this a little earlier today
20:49:37 <jsmith> Right... I just noticed that
20:49:39 <rbergeron> stickster: mchua is on the hook to me for wrangling pbrobinson and szdiallas into a Sugar talking point, so we can call that point done - she promised to get it to me very, very soon ;)
20:49:45 <stickster> rbergeron: But we got a note from Pam some time ago, and I believe it was on the list, saying that Legal needed to clear it like they clear our release name.
20:49:57 <jsmith> stickster: I was just looking for that email.
20:50:06 <rbergeron> yeah - I seem to recall in the past that we had announced it almost immediately - of course I lost most of my memory cells in labor ... :)
20:50:17 <rbergeron> so that memory thing doesn't work so well for me :)
20:50:28 <stickster> rbergeron: We did
20:50:39 <rbergeron> ohhhhhh
20:50:40 <stickster> rbergeron: Pam's mail was sometime in the last couple of months IIRC
20:50:44 * rbergeron reads everything you've written
20:51:10 <rbergeron> how much time do they need?
20:51:41 <rbergeron> just for future reference - so we can add that to the schedule
20:52:08 <jsmith> stickster: That's what I thought, but I still can't find it :-(
20:52:30 <rbergeron> stickster: she sent a mail on "Fedora Buzz" some time ago
20:53:51 * stickster has to take a phone call, brb
20:54:10 <rbergeron> anyway: this was all I had on my docket today - iirc, mchua had something she wanted to bring up - but I don't see her
20:55:08 <rbergeron> #action jsmith to send "Be More" and "evolve" as first and second choices for F14 release slogan to RH Legal.
20:56:07 <rbergeron> #topic Other Schedule Items
20:56:23 <rbergeron> stickster, jsmith: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-14/f-14-marketing-tasks.html <--- "Meet w/Creative to schedule videos."
20:56:38 <jsmith> We met w/ Creative, and talked about videos
20:57:33 <rbergeron> Is this stuff that we would be expecting to hear about on the marketing list since it's on our schedule? :)
20:58:38 <rbergeron> I know it's on the FPL schedule as well - I'm just wondering if there is some responsibility Marketing specifically has here - or if we should just ignore it... or what
21:00:15 <rbergeron> jsmith, stickster: ^^ let me / list know :) plz
21:00:26 * rbergeron will call the meeting in 87 seconds unless someone else has anything. :)
21:02:01 <rbergeron> #endmeeting