19:03:56 <kital> #startmeeting fedora ambassadors mentors 2010-09-06
19:03:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep  6 19:03:56 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:23 <kital> welcome all to our "first" meeting
19:04:31 <kital> lets start with
19:04:37 <kital> #topic RollCall
19:04:53 <Southern_Gentlem> .fasinfo jbwillia
19:04:54 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: User: jbwillia, Name: Ben Williams, email: vaioof@yahoo.com, Creation: 2006-04-17, IRC Nick: Southern_Gentleman, Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5100572, GPG key ID: 295A4FBC, Status: active
19:04:58 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: Approved Groups: cla_fedora cla_done ambassadors gitcourses irc-support-operators freemedia
19:05:02 <kital> Joerg Simon
19:05:24 <tatica> Maria Leandro
19:05:27 * lcafiero is larry cafiero
19:05:31 <bochecha> Mathieu Bridon
19:05:47 <lcafiero> Larry Cafiero (sorry)
19:06:25 <lcafiero> should we do the fasinfo?
19:06:25 <kital> thanks to all of you to show up!
19:06:37 <kital> lcafiero: not necessary
19:08:00 <kital> as we learned from the mentors survey mostly all of the mentors
19:08:15 <kital> would like to meet regularly
19:08:38 <kital> the first short
19:09:03 <kital> #topic what are the best fedora ambassador meeting times
19:09:06 <kital> ?
19:09:30 <kital> do you think to meet once every two month is enough
19:09:46 * tatica says once a month
19:10:07 <kital> other voices on this?
19:10:30 <lcafiero> i can go either way -- once a month is fine, once every two months is ok too.
19:10:45 <lcafiero> monthly might make for shorter meetings, though.
19:10:55 <bochecha> I'm waiting on this one to see what we are discussing in those meetings, and thus make an opinion on the frequency ;)
19:11:59 <kital> i think of a not sooo much formal meeting - more of a gathering to have a place to meet an discuss freely without much meeting rules
19:12:27 <kital> but also to have the opportunity to discuss topics that concerns the mentoring improvement
19:12:58 <kital> so let us see what we achieve today and go from there
19:13:09 <bochecha> maybe we can go for once a month, and evolve from there?
19:13:15 <Southern_Gentlem> i can go either way
19:13:31 <Southern_Gentlem> or every odd month
19:13:32 <kital> bochecha: good lets do that
19:14:29 <kital> please have a look at the agenda for today
19:14:31 <tatica> maybe if we do make more distant meetings will be less confidents and fluently
19:14:34 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmbassadorMentors_agenda
19:16:06 <kital> #agreed to start with monthly mentors meetings to learn if this is satisfactory for the quorum
19:16:50 <kital> i choosed the 3 most important point - from my pov - for the today´s agenda
19:17:20 <kital> any other to add?
19:17:32 <lcafiero> none from me.
19:18:26 <kital> yn1v: hi Neville
19:18:34 <Southern_Gentlem> kital,  first item please
19:18:52 <kital> #topic CLA +1 for new Ambassadors?
19:18:56 <yn1v> sorry, I was held in a work meeting
19:19:13 <kital> yn1v: np we just started
19:19:28 <kital> we have discussed CLA +1 several times in informal meetings
19:19:44 <kital> and we got a lot pro and cons
19:20:12 <kital> if we look at the statistic for the current rates
19:20:17 <kital> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=fama.git;a=blob_plain;f=stats/ambassadors.png
19:20:19 <Southern_Gentlem> kital,  -1 from me
19:20:26 * bochecha doesn't view this as a necessary condition, though it's certainly an additional proof of commitment to / knowledge of the project
19:20:51 <Southern_Gentlem> i see ambassadors as a starting place in the community
19:20:59 <bochecha> kital, nice anomaly in the middle of two very similar growth :)
19:21:34 <kital> exactly
19:22:16 <kital> in this period with the fast grow we just checked for f-a-l and for a wiki-page because it was to much communication work for one person
19:22:20 <Southern_Gentlem> i would love to see lists of mentors for the other projects that we could use to forward people to after or during them going thru the ambassadors program
19:22:44 <yn1v> that anomaly was the FAS clear up? wasn't ??
19:22:56 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, there used to be an informal mentoring effort that was more general than the specific one we setup for ambassadors
19:23:10 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors this is a start
19:23:29 <kital> yn1v: yes after a clean up of a lot inactive accounts
19:24:11 <kital> #idea  lists of mentors for the other projects that we could use to forward people to after or during them going thru the ambassadors program
19:24:44 <bochecha> kital, I'm not sure we actually need such lists
19:25:06 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  i think every group should have sometype of a mentoring project
19:25:08 <kital> so from a quantity pov a CLA +1 seems not necessary to have healthy growth
19:25:35 <bochecha> we are mentoring people that *most of the time* are from the same area as we are, and there are basically people from every group in every region (yes, I'm oversimplifying)
19:25:51 <bochecha> as such, we all know some people next to us in most of the groups, people we could point newcomers to
19:26:00 <bochecha> without requiring formal lists
19:26:14 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, that's not really for ambassadors/mentors to decide, though
19:27:10 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  but it would help get and help retain more contributors in the long run
19:27:46 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: you mean it to have better interfaces/liasons ?
19:27:50 <bochecha> I never said the contrary
19:28:18 <Southern_Gentlem> all of the above
19:29:19 <kital> if i look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors this is not very good maintained
19:29:55 <kital> and we have also different joining processes for the certain groups
19:29:59 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  I think our jobs as mentors is to help our candidates through the ambassador process and hopeful during that time frame find out what else they may be interested in and start sending them on to the next group as well
19:30:24 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, I completely agree
19:31:09 <bochecha> I've mostly mentored french people, and I have contacts with people from l18n/packaging/... in France, to point newcomers to
19:31:11 <Southern_Gentlem> be it docs or they just want to help in #fedora
19:31:38 <kital> as i understand bochecha - he is more to use informal regional connections instead formal official lists - to build better relationships
19:32:13 <bochecha> kital, I'm not *more* in favor of this, I just said official lists are not *needed*
19:32:22 <kital> understood ;)
19:32:27 <bochecha> of course lists would be useful, we can't know everyone from everywhere :)
19:32:56 <kital> are we happy with http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors <-- as said not the newest one
19:33:02 <kital> ?
19:33:20 <kital> any other solution or action that we have to take ?
19:33:28 <bochecha> if the page is accurate, sure
19:34:01 <yn1v> if the page is up to date it is really usefull
19:34:14 <bochecha> although if I understood correctly, the design team is currently working on the redesign of the fp.o website, and one of the page will include informations on how to contribute to Fedora
19:34:29 <Southern_Gentlem> i dont see groups like bugzappers on it
19:34:30 <bochecha> maybe that would be a better place to build a list of contacts for each group?
19:34:43 <lcafiero> biab
19:35:13 <yn1v> maybe bring this page to their attention, so they can include some of the info or link to this page.
19:35:24 <kital> #idea redesigned fp.o website should include informations on how to contribute to Fedora
19:36:01 <kital> any volunteer to bring this to the website teams attention?
19:36:38 <bochecha> kital, redesigned fp.o *will* include informations on how to contribute to Fedora
19:36:58 <kital> bochecha: still better!
19:37:15 <bochecha> http://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/9/95/Wwwfpo-redesign-2010_7-community.png
19:37:19 <kital> lets remember the topic - Southern_Gentlem already voted -1 on CLA +1
19:37:46 <bochecha> adding contacts informations for mentors of each group over the might make sense
19:37:56 * bochecha is 0 on the topic
19:38:02 <kital> i think lets vote on it to have a impression
19:38:17 <kital> -1 from a growth pov from me
19:38:38 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
19:38:50 * inode0 is inclined to vote +1
19:38:54 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, weren't you -1 a few minutes ago? oO
19:39:12 <yn1v> +1
19:39:14 <Southern_Gentlem> -1 on cla +1
19:39:21 <kital> bochecha: i think it is a +1 to his already voted -1
19:39:28 <inode0> although CLA+1 doesn't really capture what I think is needed
19:39:48 <inode0> some serious involvement in the project somewhere else first
19:40:03 <kital> so maybe lets move to the next topic which is maybe a better alternative?
19:40:34 <kital> #topic using the invitation Flag for Ambassador Group(Invite Only)?
19:40:37 <Southern_Gentlem> inode0,  so you dont want ambassadors to be the starting point in the community?
19:40:48 <inode0> no
19:41:35 <kital> just go ahead with discussion on - entry "barriers"
19:41:55 <yn1v> I think CLA ensure contributions remains on the project for most things people share
19:43:18 <kital> as most of you know we have the possibility to use a group invitation since two weeks
19:43:23 <inode0> one can't effectively represent a project one has just joined
19:43:49 <kital> so people who want to join have to got through mentoring before they apply to the Ambassador Group
19:43:58 <kital> s/apply/get invited
19:44:30 <inode0> the mentoring as we have it now has changed my mind about beginning with the ambassador group
19:44:38 <Southern_Gentlem> kital so how would this really change what is happening now
19:44:44 <yn1v> ambassadors have a double role... as event makers you don't really need to know much about the project. But the role a contact point to redirect people to the team that best suit the need or awser the questions at hand... is a long term learning process
19:45:50 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: the main problem mentors seems to have, that they get emails from people who want a mentor but stop communicate after the first email - right?
19:46:01 <inode0> not really
19:46:09 <Southern_Gentlem> kital,  then they arent that interested
19:46:23 <Southern_Gentlem> at times i use that a a test
19:46:26 <inode0> that happens a lot but the bigger problem is they are contacted by new people who know very little about Fedora
19:47:22 <kital> ok so using "invition only" for the group would not solve this problem
19:47:27 <kital> i see this
19:47:32 <yn1v> this is like a receptionist on a front desk ... you don't need to know the answers, but know which department handle that kind of questions. How do you do training to receptionist?
19:47:33 <inode0> it would help immensely I think
19:47:37 <Southern_Gentlem> kital imho no
19:47:57 <inode0> if Southern_Gentlem invited someone I am confident they are well suited
19:48:02 <yn1v> kital I don't think invitation only will help
19:48:09 <kital> yn1v: i see it more like a real Ambassador from a country
19:48:14 <inode0> by random self-application (like we have now) very few are well suited
19:48:27 <bochecha> how about the following: a candidate ambassador has to first hang out in events with local ambassadors, giving a hand, getting to know people in #fedora-ambassadors
19:48:28 <kital> if you are not a citizen how can you be a Ambassador for that country
19:48:45 <bochecha> after a while, an already ambassadors would remark the candidate, and invite him in the group, thus starting the mentoring process
19:48:48 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  -1 on having to have event time
19:49:04 * inode0 once suggested CLA+6 months ... which gives time to get to know people and how things work
19:49:06 <bochecha> the process would even be much simplified, given that the candidate would already have showed some work
19:49:17 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, that was an example
19:49:24 <Southern_Gentlem> inode0,  now that i agree with
19:49:34 <kital> bochecha: this is possible in Europe but we have countries or regions where they just start or are very poor and can only contribute on very small level
19:49:54 <kital> inode0: wow ;)
19:50:02 <bochecha> inode0, 6 months means they signed the cla 6 months ago, not that they have been active during those 6 months
19:50:24 <Southern_Gentlem> inode0,  or even +3 months would be helpful
19:50:26 <bochecha> kital, and? hanging around in #fedora-ambassadors, discussing with people, showing knowledge of the project and maturity, building trust,...
19:50:39 <bochecha> that's all possible even if you are the first in your country
19:50:49 <kital> bochecha: regarding event time with a local Ambassador
19:50:59 <bochecha> kital, again, that was an example
19:51:10 <yn1v> I can take some one in my country under my wing for 6 month to help him/her to be confident for becoming ambassdor, but that will not help for countries where there ir no ambassadors
19:51:20 <bochecha> I'm more interesting in the proposed process than the actual requirements
19:52:09 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  i see nothing wrong with the process we have now
19:52:33 <Southern_Gentlem> they apply then go through ambassadors mentoring
19:52:48 <kital> lets remember the "higher level" of the discussion - it is about maintaining the rate of growth we already have by pre-filter the candidates without demotivating them and route the "motived" to the Mentors
19:53:00 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, that doesn't mean it can't be improved, and some people must see something wrong with it, or else why are we even discussing it? :)
19:53:09 <Southern_Gentlem> though like inode i think they really could use more time so cla + sometime limit
19:53:16 <yn1v> do we need a entry level like apprentice? and mentorship is more like a companionship for some longer term ?
19:54:21 <Southern_Gentlem> yn1v,  as mentor as soon as they become a ambassador they are on the same playing field as we are, just they know they have someone they can come discuss things with
19:55:01 * kital is really about rethinking the CLA +1 as a alternative, which ensures the candidate is knowing the Fedora Project :S
19:55:12 <inode0> bochecha: you are right but the vast majority of failures are people who sign the CLA and join ambassador the same day or the next
19:55:13 <yn1v> yes, but not all come back witk questions... most of them do!
19:55:29 <bochecha> kital, it ensures the candidate knows one specific group
19:55:51 <Southern_Gentlem> kital and what happens when every group does cla +1
19:55:58 <inode0> the problem with the time delay is that it can dampen enthusiasm
19:56:02 <Southern_Gentlem> how does a new person get involved
19:56:09 <kital> Southern_Gentlem: +1
19:56:14 <bochecha> inode0, exactly
19:56:44 <Southern_Gentlem> i agree that cla +some time limit would be the best
19:56:48 <inode0> bochecha: that is something I can live with if their enthusiasm often only lasts two weeks anyway :(
19:57:16 <bochecha> but having the candidate feel a part of the group (by participating in #fedora-ambassadors, spending time with local ambassadors, etc...) could actually build their enthusiasm?
19:57:27 <bochecha> (as I was proposing above)
19:57:27 <inode0> I think any of these three choices would be an improvement
19:57:52 <inode0> CLA+1, invitation, CLA+"some time delay"
19:57:58 <kital> but this is something we do not need to enforce - this is a freedom that any mentor has anyway
19:58:38 <inode0> right, and I do the invitation method with most existing contributors now really
19:58:40 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  in your area that may work, i have people they are the only ambassador in their state
19:59:06 <inode0> most of them are also CLA+1 and CLA+delay already too though
19:59:11 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  our states are larger than some other ocuntries
19:59:13 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, again, that doesn't prevent them to get to know people (and let themselves known!) in #fedora-ambassadors
19:59:29 * yn1v really hates to leave, but has a work meeting :(
19:59:40 <kital> yn1v: thanks for
19:59:46 <kital> ok he is gone
19:59:49 <bochecha> just by being there and chatting, they could show how well they know the project, build some relationships, or even have others build trust in them
19:59:57 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  certain times of the year it could
20:00:19 <bochecha> well, that's at least something :)
20:00:31 <kital> bochecha: right but do we need to write this down as a "rule"? or is it enough to give that freedom to the mentor?
20:00:53 <bochecha> CLA+delay really just means candidates have to sign the CLA a while before they contact a mentor
20:01:06 <inode0> I'd rather not see mentor shopping based on this within a region
20:01:30 <kital> inode0: shopping means contact multiple mentors?
20:01:35 <inode0> CLA+delay means they didn't get bored in a week and leave
20:01:39 <bochecha> kital, if we are free to do as we please, then we continue the status quo. That's perfectly fine for me, but then we probably don't need to go on discussing this ;)
20:01:59 <bochecha> kital, no, it means you'd contact the laxer mentor ;)
20:02:02 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  exactly so they want to be part of the community and they want to make that first step the ambassadors they have had time to think aobut it first
20:02:20 <kital> bochecha: we are discuss if a common pre-filter is needed to save mentors time
20:02:29 <inode0> if one mentor in NA required CLA+1 and another didn't which would you choose if you were CLA?
20:02:41 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, or... open an account, set a reminder 6 months later, stop thinking about it until the BIP
20:03:08 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  most will not apply at that point
20:03:31 <inode0> I can imagine the problems we see are a bit different and maybe CLA+delay would work well in NA but not be necessary somewhere else
20:03:38 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, I really have no definitive idea on that, but 've been doing this for much less that you all
20:04:04 <kital> inode0: already pointed 3 choices 21:57 < inode0> CLA+1, invitation, CLA+"some time delay"
20:04:07 <bochecha> inode0, sometimes you'd even want to make it as fast as possible
20:04:40 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  what is fun is when you are contacted and they have not even applied to the ambassadors group
20:04:46 <inode0> I can't imagine fast as possible is ever wanted when the applicant signed the CLA today
20:04:56 <bochecha> let me rephrase that: sometimes the delay would be just an unnecessary pain for both the mentor and the candidate
20:04:58 <kital> is one of them helpfull as a common pre-filter to the mentorship process or does it make more harm than good?
20:05:14 <bochecha> (as fast as possible doesn't make sense, not native english, ...)
20:05:38 <inode0> how about one of the three? any one of them makes you ok?
20:06:15 <bochecha> invitation makes more sense to me, especially if all ambassadors can invite rather than only mentors
20:06:15 <Southern_Gentlem> i m -1 on cla +1 but i am +1 cla + some time
20:06:40 <inode0> would either of those be ok with you?
20:06:43 <Southern_Gentlem> and i am negable on the time
20:06:44 <bochecha> that means the initial filtering is distributed among all ambassadors, rather than having mentors be the first few swamped
20:07:19 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  its not about us getting swamped but us getting good ambassador in the end
20:07:45 * kital tents to recommend that from case to case the mentor should choose CLA+1, invitation, CLA+"some time delay"
20:07:52 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, yes, but leave the filtering to the ambassadors, and you can spend your time helping candidates become better ambassadors
20:07:55 <inode0> so at the point of application FAMA checks if the applicant is (a) CLA+1 OR (b) invited OR (c) signed the CLA at least X days ago?
20:08:46 <kital> if that would help you - yes FAMA would check this for the mentors
20:09:07 <bochecha> inode0, oh, I didn't see you proposed « OR »
20:09:26 <bochecha> inode0, that might be worth a try, yes
20:09:28 <inode0> (b) could move anything through the process ASAP
20:09:38 <inode0> move anyone I mean
20:09:46 <Southern_Gentlem> a or b would
20:10:06 <inode0> yeah, if they even knew enough to join a group with no requirements
20:10:37 <kital> #idea FAMA checks if the applicant is (a) CLA+1 OR (b) invited OR (c) signed the CLA at least X days ago
20:10:37 <Southern_Gentlem> X>30?
20:10:39 <bochecha> rather than simple invitation, I'd like to see a short recommandation
20:10:40 <inode0> even that suggests to me they know something about how Fedora works
20:10:55 <bochecha> and I'm +1 on the (a) OR (b) OR (c)
20:11:08 <kital> #undo
20:11:08 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Idea object at 0x1ca29850>
20:11:26 <kital> #idea FAMA checks if the applicant is (a) CLA+1 OR (b) invited/recommended OR (c) signed the CLA at least X>30 days ago
20:12:08 <bochecha> does FAS make it easy to know *who* invited someone in a group? if so, invitation is enough and mentor can contact the invitor (is that the correct word?) if he has some doubts...
20:12:40 <jds2001> bochecha: you can see applied and approved dates
20:12:43 <jds2001> and who approved them
20:12:55 <bochecha> jds2001, does invitation mean approval?
20:13:03 <kital> #action kital rework the welcome message and the join process till 2010-09-10
20:13:05 <inode0> this is a new thing
20:13:21 <jds2001> bochecha: not really, it's who clicked the "sponsor" button
20:13:35 <jds2001> which in theory should be the same person that invited them, I'd hope :)
20:13:47 * inode0 likes calling it recommendation or nomination rather than invitation maybe
20:14:02 <bochecha> jds2001, but if I invite someone on a group, is he automatically approved? or will it simply make him a candidate to the group that someone must then approve?
20:14:03 <jds2001> either way, the concept is the same :)
20:14:11 <kital> bochecha: let us do it this way the person who invites just add the person to the group
20:14:14 <inode0> existing ambassador is endorsing the candidate from personal knowledge
20:14:22 <kital> bochecha: or sends a short message to fama
20:14:32 <jds2001> bochecha: you have to be a sponsor to invite someone (i.e. add a member other than yourself to a group)
20:14:35 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  your recommendation sends them through the mentor process
20:14:44 <jds2001> but you still need to click the sponsor button
20:14:56 <bochecha> ok, so we're not talking about the fas « invitation » mechanism
20:14:59 <bochecha> thanks jds2001
20:15:12 <jds2001> bochecha: i think it's the same way with invite-only groups
20:15:27 <jds2001> i've not yet sponsored someone in one of those
20:16:12 <kital> 22:14 < Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  your recommendation sends them through the mentor process
20:16:31 <kital> so we have to point this out somewhere
20:16:51 <bochecha> kital, « recommandation » and « mentoring process » are concepts related to the mentoring, I was asking about the technical implementation in FAS, which seems to be different
20:17:33 <Southern_Gentlem> bochecha,  i think this would be in the trac instance not fas
20:17:48 <bochecha> Southern_Gentlem, after jds2001's explanation, that's what I'm thinking as well
20:18:10 <kital> i think a invitation in the fama track instance would be the way to go then
20:18:17 <bochecha> instead of kital opening a ticket after a candidate apply, someone would open a ticket recommending a candiate
20:18:23 <kital> bochecha: +1
20:18:41 <bochecha> in the case of (b) above, kital would still open tickets for (a) and (c)
20:18:52 <kital> +1
20:18:55 <Southern_Gentlem> yes
20:18:56 <bochecha> seems like we're finally agreeing on something ^^'
20:19:14 <kital> bochecha: ;)
20:19:30 <Southern_Gentlem> kital or someone  yes
20:19:56 <Southern_Gentlem> kital might say i am tired and burned out say tag your it
20:20:05 <kital> say tag your it
20:20:12 <kital> ? no idea ;)
20:20:19 <kital> but yeah we are 20 minutes over time
20:20:47 <bochecha> kital, then let's keep the last item for next meeting, maybe?
20:20:50 <kital> so let me work it out like i wrote in the action item - i will inform the other famsco members and mentors as well
20:21:08 <kital> bochecha: yes we make it next time
20:21:25 <kital> thanks to you all for sharing your valuable time with us
20:21:52 <kital> in last item ?
20:21:58 <kital> if not we end
20:22:00 <Southern_Gentlem> i propose next meeting on october 9 th
20:22:17 <kital> this is a Saturday?
20:22:18 <bochecha> on a saturday?
20:22:24 <Southern_Gentlem> tuesday
20:22:38 <Southern_Gentlem> ops
20:22:47 <kital> october 12th
20:22:48 <Southern_Gentlem> 10/12
20:23:02 <Southern_Gentlem> monday meeting sux
20:23:05 <bochecha> that's fine for me
20:23:16 <bochecha> monday is already the meeting day for Fedora-Fr
20:23:52 <Southern_Gentlem> i propose our meeting be the second tuesday of every month
20:24:01 <kital> #agreed mentors meeting once a month the first tuesday - next meeting  october 12th
20:24:12 <kital> #undo
20:24:12 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x16f38590>
20:24:16 <bochecha> kital, 12th is not the first tuesday :)
20:24:22 <kital> #agreed mentors meeting once a month the second tuesday - next meeting  october 12th
20:24:46 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
20:24:53 <kital> cool
20:24:58 <kital> big thanks to you all
20:25:08 <kital> lets end?
20:25:25 <bochecha> yup, gotta go anyway
20:25:31 <kital> #endmeeting