18:05:25 <sochotni> #startmeeting 18:05:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 7 18:05:25 2010 UTC. The chair is sochotni. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:05:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:05:37 <sochotni> #topic Decide when/where we'll be meeting 18:06:04 <sochotni> we already discussed with akurtakov that perhaps Tuesdays 17-18:00 UTC would work 18:06:19 <akurtakov> every second week 18:06:29 <sochotni> oh, yes...almost forgot. Every second week 18:06:41 <orionp> good for me 18:06:57 <sochotni> bozhidar: how about you? 18:07:33 <bozhidar> sochotni: it should be fine for me 18:07:46 <sochotni> ok, we can move it later if need be.. 18:08:06 <sochotni> #agreed Meetings will be held on Tuesdays, every other week at 17:00 UTC 18:08:54 <sochotni> now let's move to tasks (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Java#Tasks ) 18:09:18 <sochotni> #topic Tasks for starting java-sig properly 18:09:50 <akurtakov> I don't think we can monitor all java packages 18:10:25 <akurtakov> maybe some kind of java-buildsys kind of group monitoring ant, maven, plexus, apache-commons 18:10:52 <sochotni> akurtakov: I would like to pull in all core java packages 18:11:02 <sochotni> so also junit, velocity etc 18:11:15 <akurtakov> yeah, that's what I was thinking of 18:12:14 <akurtakov> someone interested to join such group? 18:12:28 <sochotni> akurtakov: how about two of use create this list so that we can then ask for for batch watch-commits in rel-eng ticket? 18:12:34 <sochotni> *two of us 18:12:47 <akurtakov> sounds good 18:12:51 <sochotni> I'll prepare the base list 18:13:01 <sochotni> you can verify if nothing important is missing 18:13:07 <akurtakov> ok 18:13:22 <sochotni> #agreed sochotni and akurtakov prepare list of java packages that will be monitored for commits 18:13:45 <sochotni> #action sochotni and akurtakov prepare list of java packages that will be monitored for commits 18:14:12 <sochotni> we can skip maven3 update 18:14:24 <akurtakov> well, I prepare to not skip maven entirely 18:14:39 <akurtakov> maven is a big issue for us so we have at least 3 parts 18:15:00 <sochotni> ok, so this is current status: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MavenUpdate#Maven_3 18:15:07 <akurtakov> 1. fix all recent FTBFS which include migrating a number of packages to use newer libs 18:15:18 <sochotni> I am packaging mojo-parent (dependency of animal-sniffer) 18:15:36 <akurtakov> 2. consolidate dependencies plexus and etc. 18:15:55 <akurtakov> a lot of them has been moved around and are almost duplicated in different packages 18:16:03 <akurtakov> 3. get maven3 and deps installed 18:16:25 <akurtakov> any help with these tasks is more than welcome 18:16:30 <sochotni> yes, the whole plexus stack needs review 18:16:53 <sochotni> for example some packages have dependency on plexus-javadoc in pom.xml, but currently that is replaced by plexus-component-javadoc 18:17:43 <sochotni> I own most of plexus packages, so I guess noone else would know where to start with this (plus I did some recent work on lot of them) 18:18:43 <sochotni> I'll give myself a task for this, but this is gonna take some time 18:19:17 <akurtakov> you can try opening bug reports against so others can join 18:19:44 <akurtakov> it may be a bit of nonsense if noone helps but we can hope 18:19:53 <sochotni> #action sochotni will review plexus packages, which ones were replaced by which ones. Creating tracking bug for this (announced later) 18:20:33 <sochotni> FTBFS bugs are a priority right now, because otherwise we have non-working stack 18:20:57 <akurtakov> absolutely 18:21:27 <bozhidar> sochotni: excuse my ignorance, but what is FTBFS? 18:21:39 <akurtakov> bozhidar: failed to build from source 18:21:45 <sochotni> bozhidar: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FTBFS 18:22:07 <bozhidar> 10x, got it 18:23:03 <akurtakov> ok, next one is packaging guidelines 18:23:28 <akurtakov> this is smth sochotni, orionp and me should do 18:23:44 <sochotni> yes, I believe so 18:23:51 <sochotni> orionp: would you mind helping out here? 18:24:02 <orionp> Sure. What is needed? 18:24:26 <sochotni> orionp: current practice is a bit different from official packaging guidelines for java 18:24:37 <sochotni> I know there were some drafts for new guidelines 18:24:50 <akurtakov> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Java 18:24:52 <sochotni> also jar_repack magic should be mentioned somewhere 18:25:03 <sochotni> and a lot of other things 18:25:13 <sochotni> basically they need review 18:25:29 <akurtakov> does someone know what is the procedure for getting a draft reviewed 18:25:36 <orionp> Not familiar with jar_repack magic, maybe others. 18:25:53 <orionp> File a ticket with the packaging comittee 18:26:00 <sochotni> orionp: that's why there would be more of us doing the review 18:26:23 <orionp> Is there a new packaging draft page yet? 18:26:25 <akurtakov> I can try putting new draft 18:26:34 <akurtakov> and ask you to review it 18:26:47 <sochotni> akurtakov: ok, you start and me and orion will review the draft and spice it up 18:27:08 <sochotni> #agreed akurtakov will prepare new packaging guidelines draft for java. orionp and sochotni will review 18:27:21 <sochotni> #action akurtakov will prepare new packaging guidelines draft for java. orionp and sochotni will review 18:27:33 <akurtakov> ok, we can get it reviewed in 2 weeks on the next meeting and open a ticket for updating it officially after that 18:28:10 <sochotni> if you can make it until next meeting, I guess so 18:28:16 <sochotni> moving on? 18:28:30 <akurtakov> yes 18:28:53 <sochotni> we can revert positions 18:29:07 <sochotni> I can prepare specialized java review template 18:29:23 <sochotni> akurtakov and orionp can review it? 18:30:01 <sochotni> anyone can pitch in of course 18:30:06 <akurtakov> maybe bozhidar will be a nice beta tester if he reviews his own package using your template and we find a problem after that smth is broken with the template 18:30:12 <akurtakov> or anyone else 18:30:18 <sochotni> akurtakov: good idea 18:30:23 <bozhidar> yep 18:30:43 <bozhidar> I was planning to beta test the new packaging guidelines as well 18:30:59 <sochotni> #action sochotni will prepare new java review template and will test it with bozhidar 18:31:15 <akurtakov> cool 18:31:20 <sochotni> tips & tricks for packaging java... 18:31:35 <sochotni> basically list of common problems and how to fix them 18:31:53 <sochotni> I already started something so I'll just move it to SIG common space and maintain it there 18:32:18 <sochotni> anyone who comes across some fix that could be generalized is welcome to improve it 18:32:25 <akurtakov> basically maven and eclipse problems/fixes because we don't have enough similarity in the rest of the stack to get something common out of it 18:32:43 <sochotni> yes, true 18:33:06 <orionp> I'll go through some of my recent packages to see what might be helpful 18:33:15 <sochotni> orionp: great 18:33:17 <bmahe> what about ivy packages? 18:33:40 <akurtakov> well, I'm missing any ivy experience 18:33:48 <sochotni> me too 18:33:53 <akurtakov> do we have packages build with ivy ? 18:34:00 <sochotni> I was going to ask that too 18:34:33 <bozhidar> isn't ivy just an ant extension to manage deps in a fashion similar to maven? 18:34:40 <bmahe> I didn't see anything returns by --whatrequires 18:34:53 <orionp> basically yes 18:34:54 <bmahe> bozhidar, yes 18:34:58 <akurtakov> bmahe: but if you have something to add like ways to tell ivy to not download jars and look for them somewhere it will be wellcome on such page 18:35:12 <orionp> I looked at hadoop at one point that used it.... 18:35:32 <sochotni> bmahe: just keep an eye on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Java the link will appear there (probably tomorrow) 18:35:56 <akurtakov> I'm pretty sure that we have smth that uses ivy 18:35:56 <bmahe> akurtakov, I am no ivy expert and was looking at some projects using ivy that would be nice to package. So I am looking into it but was also wondering if we have any policy/experience with ivy 18:35:57 <sochotni> #info sochotni will move his common maven problems to SIG namespace and others will improve it 18:36:30 <akurtakov> bmahe: so we can talk and define some guidelines 18:36:38 <bmahe> akurtakov, yes 18:37:16 <sochotni> bmahe, akurtakov: want that as an official action? Or will you just get in touch unofficially for now? 18:37:37 <bmahe> either way is fine for me 18:37:49 <akurtakov> I believe we will have to document just a few ivy properties so it doesn't fetch jars 18:38:15 <akurtakov> let's not make it official unless we have smth to speak for 18:38:17 <bmahe> probably adding resolvers and stuff like that 18:38:33 <sochotni> ok, let me know when you know what needs to be done 18:39:10 <akurtakov> bmahe: ping me when you have some package so we can get smth out of it 18:39:23 <sochotni> yes, that would be ideal 18:39:38 <bozhidar> guys, I have to leave now, but I'll read the rest of the discussion later. If you've got some tasks that I might be helpful with - don't be afraid to mention me 18:39:48 <akurtakov> bozhidar: sure, thanks 18:39:55 <sochotni> bozhidar: I'll add you to documentation/FAQ update ok? 18:40:00 <sochotni> like we said before 18:40:36 <bmahe> akurtakov, I actually do :) 18:40:45 <akurtakov> bmahe: cool 18:40:58 <akurtakov> bmahe: let's talk about it after the meeting 18:41:02 <bmahe> akurtakov, still working on it, but something we can use to work on. 18:41:04 <bmahe> sure 18:41:30 <sochotni> #info akurtakov and bmahe will be looking into packages using ivy to get ideas for guidelines 18:41:41 <sochotni> "Add ability to query java-only package reviews in BZ" 18:42:30 <sochotni> I guess we could ask for special keyword to add to review if it's java based? 18:42:31 <akurtakov> creating a packages pending review section somewhere in the java sig space 18:42:49 <akurtakov> and expecting people to add their packages there 18:43:14 <sochotni> hmm, that would work too without involving rel-eng, but needs more work day-to-day from reviewers/packagers 18:43:15 <akurtakov> anyway we will require something additional from submitters to do 18:43:27 <sochotni> akurtakov: that's true 18:43:37 <sochotni> ok, incorporate it in guidelines 18:43:43 <akurtakov> ok 18:44:01 <akurtakov> we should count the java provenpackagers/sponsors 18:44:04 <orionp> Seems this is close: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&longdesc=java&component=Package%20Review&longdesc_type=allwordssubstr&product=Fedora&classification=Fedora 18:44:32 <sochotni> #action akurtakov will include need to add java packages for review into special Java SIG namespace 18:45:00 <akurtakov> orionp: this is a nice starting point 18:45:00 <sochotni> damn that reads wrong...well, you'll know what it means :-) 18:45:16 <akurtakov> we shouls definitely put this link on the page 18:45:25 <akurtakov> so who is a sponsor? 18:45:47 <orionp> After that it would be up to someone to add a keyword or whiteboard entry 18:45:49 <sochotni> #info link for seeing most of java package reviews: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&longdesc=java&component=Package%20Review&longdesc_type=allwordssubstr&product=Fedora&classification=Fedora 18:46:18 <akurtakov> orionp: ? 18:46:27 <akurtakov> aren't you a sponsor? 18:46:44 <orionp> I am a sponsor, yes. 18:47:12 <akurtakov> ok, so it is just orionp and me for new packagers 18:47:38 <sochotni> akurtakov: I can help out by pre-screening 18:47:50 <sochotni> doing unofficial reviews and handing you almost clean packages 18:48:00 <akurtakov> sochotni: thanks 18:48:07 <akurtakov> we definitely need it 18:48:20 <akurtakov> provenpackagers - anyone ? 18:48:51 <sochotni> not yet :-/ 18:48:59 <orionp> I am 18:49:02 <akurtakov> I'm asking so we can get an idea for the people able to help in mass fixes 18:49:39 <akurtakov> I know that mbooth and mefoster are provenpackagers too but they are not very active lately 18:49:58 <akurtakov> #info sponsors: orionp and akurtakov 18:50:34 <akurtakov> #info provenpackagers: orionp, akurtakov, mbooth, mefoster 18:50:57 <akurtakov> overholt will definetely join us when he gets back 18:51:33 <sochotni> ok, shall we move on? 18:51:49 <akurtakov> we should add this info to the sig page so people know who to query when there is need for someone with more permissions 18:51:54 <akurtakov> yes, let's move 18:52:16 <sochotni> ok, "Look after Java and Eclipse release notes" 18:52:24 <sochotni> akurtakov: you added that I assume? 18:52:37 <akurtakov> I don't think so 18:53:15 <akurtakov> anyway, for eclipse we have nice New and noteworty pages which are just referenced 18:53:20 <akurtakov> not much more we can do 18:53:38 <akurtakov> and I\m not volunteering to work on smth like that 18:54:20 <akurtakov> next ? 18:54:30 <sochotni> I guess so 18:54:55 <sochotni> Improving Java and Java/FAQ pages 18:55:13 <sochotni> bozhidar agreed to review them for basic problems/misinformations 18:55:33 <sochotni> and update as necessary. I'll be watching changes and review them 18:55:43 <akurtakov> this is a nice task for someone else to join too 18:56:02 <sochotni> cspike: want to pitch in by any chance? 18:56:27 <orionp> I've got to go - anything pressing for me? 18:56:44 <sochotni> not from me 18:56:55 <akurtakov> orionp: thanks for joining 18:57:11 <sochotni> orionp: yeah, thanks. just read the minutes if you have time 18:57:12 <orionp> I'll do what I can. Busy though :-) 18:57:13 <akurtakov> once we get this started we will make meetings shorter 18:57:24 <orionp> bye 18:57:28 <sochotni> yeah, first meetings are touch 18:57:36 <sochotni> *tough 18:57:58 <akurtakov> so we have open floor now, right? 18:58:05 <sochotni> #action bozhidar will fix up Java and Java/FAQ pages. sochotni will review them 18:58:09 <akurtakov> anyone wanting to ask smth? 18:58:26 <sochotni> akurtakov: there was also autoqa thing 18:58:41 <sochotni> akurtakov: let's postpone it for now 18:58:48 <agajania> I work for a small college. I would like to maintain a package for BlueJ. 18:59:35 <akurtakov> agajania: submit your package for review and we will start the process 18:59:48 <akurtakov> agajania: or you want us to help you with packaging? 19:00:03 <akurtakov> we can answer questions 19:00:13 <agajania> akurtakov, I have been packaging for a few years but I'm sure that I will need help with the guidelines 19:00:22 <sochotni> agajania: there is almost always someone at #fedora-java willing to help out with packaging 19:01:00 <agajania> sochotni, ok 19:01:14 <sochotni> agajania: best way to learn is to submit package for review and we'll guide you through process 19:01:28 <agajania> I think that there are issues with BlueJ having to do with bundled libraries 19:01:44 <sochotni> agajania: yes that is common problem with java libraries 19:01:49 <agajania> theres something called AppleJavaExtensions.jar 19:02:08 <agajania> ok, I'll submit a package for review 19:02:37 <sochotni> if nothing else, I'll end the meeting 19:02:42 <akurtakov> one more thing 19:03:05 <akurtakov> it would be nice if we can get ant, maven and eclipse spec templates added to rpmdevtools 19:03:21 <akurtakov> this should be an easy task once guidelines are updated 19:03:54 <sochotni> cspike is having dinner now...but I guess we can give him this task ? 19:03:55 <akurtakov> we are looking for someone to join us on this task 19:04:08 <akurtakov> he is not here so let's do it :) 19:04:50 <sochotni> #action after new guidelines are finished create ant, maven and eclipse package templates and include them in rpmdevtools 19:04:55 <sochotni> eh 19:05:19 <akurtakov> that's enough for today :) 19:05:19 <sochotni> #undo 19:05:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x12f8bd50> 19:05:29 <sochotni> #action cspike: after new guidelines are finished create ant, maven and eclipse package templates and include them in rpmdevtools 19:05:43 <sochotni> #endmeeting