18:01:25 <sochotni> #startmeeting #startmeeting Java SIG -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Java 18:01:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 23 18:01:25 2011 UTC. The chair is sochotni. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:29 <sochotni> #meetingname java-sig 18:01:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'java-sig' 18:01:38 <sochotni> #topic roll-call 18:01:43 <pingou> .fas pingou 18:01:43 <zodbot> pingou: pingou 'Pierre-YvesChibon' <pingou@pingoured.fr> 18:01:57 <akurtakov> .fas akurtakov 18:01:57 <zodbot> akurtakov: akurtakov 'Alexander Kurtakov' <akurtako@redhat.com> 18:02:07 <overholt> .fas overholt 18:02:08 <zodbot> overholt: overholt 'Andrew Overholt' <overholt@redhat.com> 18:02:10 <sochotni> .fas sochotni 18:02:13 <zodbot> sochotni: sochotni 'Stanislav Ochotnicky' <sochotni@redhat.com> 18:02:31 <sochotni> never thought of using this before :-) 18:02:34 <orionp> .fas orion 18:02:34 <zodbot> orionp: drchrishobson 'Chrid Hobson' <chris.hobson@orionhealth.com> - orion1979 'Alexey Rubinov' <orion1979@yandex.ru> - orionjob 'Orion McNyset' <orionjob@gmail.com> - orion 'Orion Poplawski' <orion@cora.nwra.com> - macabroso17 '' <orion_17889@yahoo.es> 18:02:57 <sochotni> hehe, long info 18:03:23 <sochotni> #info overholt akurtakov orionp pingou sochotni attending 18:04:16 <sochotni> #topic Changes to guidelines 18:04:44 <sochotni> I'd like to propose tweaking of current guidelines to have maven 3 in templates/recommendations 18:04:53 <sochotni> with maven2 as fallback in case of problems 18:05:08 <sochotni> and those problems should be filed as bugs against maven package 18:05:26 <sochotni> I already found one problem (maven-ant-tasks, yet to investigate) 18:05:42 <akurtakov> we should put this really strong that Maven 2 will not be supported soon so people can feel the need to move to maven 3 18:06:04 <sochotni> I can do the changes to draft guidelines, you can just verify them 18:06:06 <akurtakov> at least I don't plan any work on maven2 unless it causes troubles for maven 3 18:06:30 <akurtakov> sochotni: what about the macro changes? 18:06:39 <sochotni> well upstream doesn't seem eager to work on 2.X anymore either so it's natural.. 18:06:47 <akurtakov> it's good to get them in one go through the FPC 18:07:05 <sochotni> akurtakov: talking about %add_maven_depmap ? 18:07:30 <akurtakov> sochotni: yes, tweaking the guidelines every second month is not a good thing either 18:08:01 <sochotni> that is not in jpackage-utils yet, so I don't know...I don't think there is any other way to make it work easily 18:08:21 <akurtakov> overholt: would you please push dbhole to look at jpackage-utils(he is the maintainer) 18:08:47 <overholt> akurtakov: sure 18:08:50 <akurtakov> or he can give up maintainership which will effectively mean that we are forking jpackage-utils 18:09:05 * overholt assumed we had already forked it 18:09:13 <sochotni> it's bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658809 18:09:40 <akurtakov> overholt: well, we haven't but I think it's time to 18:09:58 <overholt> I'll speak with Deepak about it tomorrow 18:10:20 <sochotni> I am not gonna pretend I understand all of the jpackage history...but it sure would be nice to have ways to simplify work of packages easily 18:10:48 <sochotni> #action overholt discuss with dbhole about bug #658809 and possible "forking" of jpackage-utils 18:11:08 <akurtakov> sochotni: not knowing the history is a good thing because you will have a cleaner look at the situation :) 18:11:53 <sochotni> OK, I guess no one is agains us moving to maven 3...so I'll start working on draft changes 18:12:12 <akurtakov> the sooner maven2 dies the better 18:12:15 <sochotni> overholt: let me know what happens with jpackage and I'll possibly add that to the guidelines 18:12:20 <pingou> hm what's the target release for maven3 ? F15 or F16 ? 18:12:28 <sochotni> pingou: f15 18:12:32 <akurtakov> pingou: we have it in f15 18:12:41 <sochotni> but not as a replacement for maven2 18:12:46 <overholt> sochotni: yup 18:12:55 <sochotni> in f15 maven 3 actually depends on maven2 package 18:13:33 <akurtakov> sochotni: please also take a look at the other scripts in jpackage-utils and incorporating them in the guidelines 18:13:42 <sochotni> #action sochotni add changes to guidelines draft that use maven 3 as default 18:13:52 <akurtakov> e.g. clean-binary-files 18:13:53 <sochotni> akurtakov: that was my intention 18:14:39 <sochotni> #action add misc functions from jpackage into guidelines (clean-binary-files, verify jpackage_script macro etc) 18:14:48 <sochotni> #undo 18:14:48 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b025e9ff850> 18:14:53 <sochotni> #action sochotni add misc functions from jpackage into guidelines (clean-binary-files, verify jpackage_script macro etc) 18:15:06 <sochotni> love the python output :-) 18:15:30 <sochotni> I'd go to JNI problems now... 18:16:04 <sochotni> the guidelines need to be clarified, but I am not sure anyone of us actually understands ins and outs of 64/32bit Java differences 18:16:37 <sochotni> though bug #665576 provides good information 18:16:54 <sochotni> I was hoping zodbot would help here ... 18:17:04 <sochotni> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=665576 "build-classpath swt" fails on 64bit 18:17:11 <pingou> bug #665576 18:17:26 <sochotni> bad zodbot, bad 18:17:44 <akurtakov> I still think that using _jnidir is better than _libdir/name 18:18:32 <akurtakov> but we have to define _jnidir to be _libdir/java 18:18:40 <akurtakov> not /usr/lib/jave as it is now 18:20:25 <akurtakov> anyone having smth against it ? 18:20:53 <sochotni> I'd have to think about this properly and do some tests to REALLY understand what these changes mean 18:21:08 <pingou> + makes it a bit more readable - it's one more macro 18:21:42 <pingou> but using libdir would seem logical (although I know nothing about the 32/64 differences in java) 18:22:15 <akurtakov> ville's option B from this bug 18:22:25 <sochotni> we currently install jni libs into %{_libdir}/%{name} which is not java VM specific but host arch specific 18:22:27 <akurtakov> is what I propose 18:23:10 <sochotni> currently _jnidir is always /usr/lib/java right? 18:23:20 <pingou> %_jnidir %{_prefix}/lib/java 18:23:26 <sochotni> yup 18:23:48 <akurtakov> overholt: opinion ? 18:24:05 <overholt> akurtakov: I think it need to be fixed 18:24:11 <overholt> but I'm not sure what the best solution is 18:24:46 <sochotni> change the macro to be %{_libdir}/java is the first step, but as is said in the bug...this will require rebuild of packages using JNI 18:24:56 <sochotni> plus there are runtime configurations as well.. 18:25:15 <akurtakov> and this will match what we do in eclipse :) 18:25:20 <pingou> pity we didn't do it before the rebuild 18:26:00 <akurtakov> sochotni: pingou: it wouldn't require that much rebuilds because most packages using native parts don't use jpackage scripts due to them not working in this case 18:26:03 <sochotni> pingou: too late to cry over spilled milk I guess :-) 18:26:10 <overholt> :) 18:26:16 <akurtakov> but yes we will break a few applications :) 18:26:40 <sochotni> I am willing to do that in rawhide, but it would be good to have "preemptive" list 18:27:01 <pingou> sochotni: I was just thinking loudly, sorry :) 18:27:23 <sochotni> pingou: but you were right! 18:28:23 <sochotni> actually rationale section in our guidelines provide hints to what needs to happen 18:29:26 <sochotni> and it seems to be a bit more complicated.. 18:30:24 <akurtakov> well, the best scenario is described there 18:30:30 <akurtakov> we can not get everything at once 18:31:47 <akurtakov> just fixing the location and jpackage scripts will give a lot better handling of the situation even without autofinding jni 18:31:56 <sochotni> I don't think there are that many jni packages so hopefully nothing will break beyond repair 18:32:35 <pingou> (isn't rawhide there to be broken ? :)) 18:32:47 <sochotni> So I guess give green light for B) handling of #665576 ? 18:32:53 <akurtakov> +1 18:32:56 <sochotni> and we'll look after possible breakages 18:32:57 <pingou> +1 18:33:02 <sochotni> +1 from me as well 18:33:14 <pingou> overholt: ? 18:33:21 <overholt> sorry, I haven't read it recently but I'm sure you're all right 18:33:38 <akurtakov> :) 18:34:07 <sochotni> #agreed give green light for B) handling of #665576 18:34:07 <akurtakov> sochotni: please announce it on java list for comments first 18:34:33 <akurtakov> though it still depends on the jpackage-utils 18:34:36 <sochotni> #action sochotni announce changes to JNI fixes on java ML 18:34:47 <sochotni> #undo 18:34:47 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b025e9ff350> 18:34:54 <sochotni> really...depends on dbhole :-) 18:35:15 <akurtakov> moving? 18:35:19 <sochotni> I'll comment on the bug and I'll make sure it gets announced in right time 18:35:24 <sochotni> yu[ 18:35:30 <sochotni> yup that is :-) 18:35:36 <sochotni> #topic Tomcat 5->6 18:36:03 <sochotni> 8 packages left 18:36:28 <akurtakov> sochotni: do you have a list? 18:36:33 <sochotni> akurtakov: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=640397 18:37:23 <akurtakov> most of them are insignificant 18:37:36 <sochotni> #info tomcat5 packages to go: kawa, castor, jakarta-taglibs-standard, struts, tomcatjss, gdata-java, freemaker 18:37:45 <akurtakov> we(eclipse) still haven't moved too 18:37:46 <sochotni> actually 7 because 8th is tomcat5 itself 18:38:31 <sochotni> orionp: how is your time lately? It's your bug after all :-) (although we all agree tomcat5 needs to go...) 18:40:12 <sochotni> I could look into one package at least I guess..maybe tomcatjss. Most moves are quite simple 18:41:47 <orionp> I really have no time. 18:42:06 <akurtakov> omajid is going to look into freemarker 18:42:14 <sochotni> I guessed so, reviews have stalled too :-) 18:43:00 <sochotni> OK, well...It'd be great to have it in F16 :-) 18:43:49 <sochotni> F15 is frozen anyway so I guess strange things could happen if we moved things too much 18:44:25 <akurtakov> F-15 is done deal we can not drop packages anymore 18:44:31 <akurtakov> so there is no point pushing for it 18:44:38 <sochotni> yup, exactly 18:45:11 <sochotni> Because of this I'll guess there is no reason to start tomcat 7 discussion for now? 18:45:23 <akurtakov> well, we need someone to spend time on it 18:45:28 <akurtakov> and there is no volunteer 18:45:35 <akurtakov> so let's skip 18:45:37 <sochotni> yup, and there are other things... 18:45:59 <sochotni> #info tomcat5->6 migration finalisation will wait until F16 18:46:14 <sochotni> #topic Java SIG tracker bug status 18:46:25 <sochotni> there are mostly package reviews 18:46:57 <sochotni> some of them stalled(more or less) on packager 18:47:19 <akurtakov> yep, most 18:48:08 <sochotni> what is the DEADREVIEW time? 2 weeks without response? 18:48:19 <pingou> I think a bit more 18:48:24 <akurtakov> well, I'm not sure there is some set 18:48:24 <pingou> first ping once 18:48:45 * pingou refers to tibbis' scale 18:48:53 <akurtakov> I usually close when I review my bugs and there was no response for more than 2months 18:48:56 <pingou> tibb's* 18:49:48 <sochotni> akurtakov: 2 months is quite a long time, but I am OK with that 18:50:05 <pingou> sochotni: ping after 2/3 weeks, 3/4 weeks later close 18:50:29 <sochotni> pingou: I am doing something similar I guess 18:51:03 <pingou> 2 weeks is short, some people have holidays :) 18:51:04 <sochotni> #info most SIG bugs are stalled package reviews. Try to ping packages in a few weeks, close bugs after a few more without reponse 18:51:32 <sochotni> pingou: that was with ping in middle I believe... 18:51:40 <akurtakov> there are also few FTBFS 18:51:41 <pingou> ah ok 18:52:00 <akurtakov> java-gnome doesn't work with lates libs 18:52:08 <akurtakov> work is supposed to happen upstream 18:52:51 <akurtakov> intellij-idea and jps are playing games with javac and this time there only savor is to use ecj for the build 18:53:12 <sochotni> there is hint how to solve it in intellid-idea bug 18:53:20 <sochotni> yup, ecj 18:54:14 <akurtakov> it's up to the maintainer in this case 18:54:38 <sochotni> yup, we might ping them later during f15 phase if nothing happens I guess 18:54:43 <sochotni> #topic open floor 18:55:18 <sochotni> I just wanted to let you know I am slowly starting work on packaging sonatype-tycho 18:55:31 <overholt> that's great news, sochotni 18:55:50 <sochotni> I asked for bundling exception from FPC, seems it won't be a problem 18:56:12 <sochotni> #info https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/59 sonatype-tycho bundling exception bug 18:56:28 <sochotni> that was supposed to be #link but oh well... 18:57:22 <sochotni> overholt: well....really just starting so I guess it will take me a while to get it to build properly... 18:57:34 <overholt> sochotni: understood 18:58:22 <akurtakov> sochotni: you may start pushing the additional deps for review and let us(eclipse) know what is needed from our side 18:58:58 <sochotni> akurtakov: I think there will only be 1 or 2 packages we don't yet have so I should have one of them ready on Friday hopefully 18:59:09 <akurtakov> that's cool 18:59:18 <sochotni> it was that xml-parser thingy 18:59:20 <sochotni> de.something 19:00:14 <akurtakov> I'm more concerned about the way it uses p2 repos 19:01:17 <akurtakov> because we don't ship p2 for bundles outside of eclipse-platform 19:01:18 <sochotni> yes, that's what I'll have to look into...it's quite possible we are looking into another custom resolver similar to maven/maven2 packages 19:01:38 <sochotni> and things I haven't even though about I am sure 19:02:30 <sochotni> ok, I guess that's enough 19:02:40 <sochotni> thanks for participating everyone 19:02:43 <sochotni> #endmeeting