18:00:44 <shaiton_> #startmeeting FUDCon EMEA 2012
18:00:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 18:00:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is shaiton_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:49 <shaiton_> #meetingname FUDCon EMEA Paris
18:00:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fudcon_emea_paris'
18:01:01 <shaiton_> #chair eseyman rbergeron misc
18:01:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: eseyman misc rbergeron shaiton_
18:01:03 <rbergeron> hidey ho!
18:01:10 * Southern_Gentlem 
18:01:19 * shaiton_ Kévin Raymond
18:01:28 * rbergeron is here
18:01:41 * Southern_Gentlem is here
18:01:45 * misc is here
18:02:10 <shaiton_> rbergeron: could you lead this one please? Not sure how to deal with the tickets ^^ (Or only the funding topic if you want)
18:02:48 * eseyman is here
18:04:14 <shaiton_> Ok, I'll start by giving some links
18:04:25 <shaiton_> #topic funding
18:04:28 <rbergeron> yeah, go ahead and give links. Or go over rest of agenda as well :)
18:04:36 <shaiton_> too late :)
18:04:38 <rbergeron> sorry, i was lookign at the list of requests
18:04:46 <shaiton_> no probs
18:04:54 <shaiton_> So, here are the requests:
18:04:56 <shaiton_> https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/query?milestone=Paris+2012%3A+Travel+Subsidies+Requested&group=status
18:05:24 <shaiton_> Here is our today budget
18:05:26 <shaiton_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Paris_2012_budget
18:06:05 <shaiton_> So we should have enough to approve all open tickets and more, still need to approve the requests
18:06:18 * rbergeron nods. does this list seem short to you?
18:07:01 <rbergeron> I guess I have question or two about the budget page, first - the 4k of budget - does that include hotel and airfare/train/other travel, or is that just airfare/travel?
18:07:17 <shaiton_> rbergeron: only the Trac list ;). We tried to write everything on this budget page. Only the point 6 needs update (it would be like 1k)
18:07:53 * rbergeron looks at a few other budgets for some reference....
18:08:00 * rbergeron meant the trac list of requets seemed short
18:08:04 <shaiton_> rbergeron: that was just a quick sum from the Trac tickets, it will grow of course
18:08:09 <shaiton_> sure
18:08:34 <rbergeron> okay. I think what we need to do is plan a final figure for how much we can actually spend, so we can prioritize tihngs.
18:08:36 <shaiton_> I think the CZ team (zoltan?) could ask for travel subsidies too (they only ask for hotel if I read correctly)
18:09:27 <Southern_Gentlem> !
18:09:34 <shaiton_> rbergeron: it would be $BUDGET - points 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6
18:10:01 <rbergeron> ie: what is the most we can possibly spend - even though the deadline has closed, i suspsect we may see more requets, and - for example - we have people from not-europe requesting subsidies, and we need to know how to prioritize that vs. possiblity of other emea folks applying
18:10:07 <rbergeron> Southern_Gentlem: go ahead
18:10:41 <Southern_Gentlem> i think it would be better if there was a spread sheet for each and every point
18:10:59 <Southern_Gentlem> like we did for Fudcon NA
18:11:51 <rbergeron> Southern_Gentlem: I think so too, and we'll get there, I think we're just looking at a basic list right now, and thinking about what else we might need before we get to a spreadsheet model where we can track it.
18:11:56 <shaiton_> I am sure that people sent me some examples, I can only find the LATAM one..
18:12:05 <rbergeron> I think the 4k is probably enough to start making some basic info.
18:12:18 <rbergeron> shaiton_: one thing I can think of here is badges/badge holders.
18:13:04 <shaiton_> rbergeron: sure. Adding it now
18:13:42 <rbergeron> We might also think about things like signage - especially since we'll be at a prominent open source event for a day (other than our own! of course) - what can we do to get more of those people involved and make sure they know where to go, etc.
18:14:29 <suehle> and what kind of signage OWF will let us post
18:14:32 <rbergeron> shaiton_: does the hotel include breakfast at all, or is that separate
18:14:34 <rbergeron> suehle: yes
18:15:11 <shaiton_> #action shaiton_ to see about OWF signage
18:15:37 * rbergeron thinks that's all she has offhand, unless we want to consider trying to figure out some additional media to give out to people who might be coming from OWF - perhaps we can find some additional supplemental budget for that these days now that the budget is moved over to new hands
18:15:48 <shaiton_> rbergeron: it should be separated (breakfast)
18:16:32 <rbergeron> shaiton: so another tought is at least having coffee (if we can) at the facility, just because people tend to not stop and take a super long break if they know coffee is going to be located where they are going :)
18:16:50 <shaiton_> since this is few weeks before the F18 release (hopefully), we can ask all ambassadors to bring their media, and share them at the end of the event
18:16:57 <Southern_Gentlem> +9000 on coffee
18:17:10 <shaiton_> rbergeron: yes, that's included in point 3
18:17:27 <rbergeron> ah, okay
18:17:33 <shaiton_> #action local team to detail a bit more :) see ^
18:18:12 <Southern_Gentlem> shaiton_,  coffee is the one thing i had people complain about
18:19:10 <rbergeron> okay. so... re: funding...
18:19:33 <shaiton_> Southern_Gentlem: we will ;)
18:19:41 <rbergeron> if we think we're not missing anything on budget - though starting to move to a spreadsheet to help track it would be useful - anyone intersted in setting that up? i can send a few examples to the fudcon-planning list of past budget sheets
18:19:53 * rbergeron ha sto go throw a credit card at her sig0, hang on 1 minute
18:20:32 <rbergeron> okay, back
18:21:25 <shaiton_> in fact we started on the wiki as we don't have open source alternative on the WEB..
18:21:52 <shaiton_> I agree it's not really easy for spreadsheet..
18:22:01 <Southern_Gentlem> shaiton_,  google docs
18:22:08 <rbergeron> shaiton_: yeah, I think we have mostly just given up and gone to google docs.
18:22:10 <shaiton_> Southern_Gentlem: that's not Open
18:22:15 <Southern_Gentlem> example spreadsheet  http://noname.math.vt.edu/FUDCon/FUDCon%20Blacksburg%20Budget.ods
18:22:34 <Southern_Gentlem> shaiton_,  about as open as we are going to get
18:22:35 <rbergeron> while it's not open, wiki also doesn't do a very good job of handling math.
18:22:43 <shaiton_> rbergeron: I could set up one with your examples, we could at the and submit on a static wiki page for record
18:23:04 <shaiton_> (one, gdoc I agree..)
18:23:05 <rbergeron> shaiton_: yep, it's good to have the numbers on the wiki as well, or at lesat to snapshot them once in a while.
18:23:42 <shaiton_> #action shaiton to set up a spreadheet doc to handle budget. Would then be reported to the wiki.
18:23:45 <rbergeron> and I tihnk at least the google doc still does help provide transparency, even if it's not as open sourcey as we'd wish :)
18:23:52 <shaiton_> thanks Southern_Gentlem
18:24:00 <misc> shaiton_: the good thing with using gdoc, is that you could no longer delegate to me the edition :p
18:24:15 <rbergeron> okay, ready to talk about funding individuals?
18:24:20 <shaiton_> misc: oh, I would still be able to ask you for quotes :p
18:24:29 <shaiton_> rbergeron: +1
18:25:20 <rbergeron> okay :)
18:25:43 <rbergeron> so - a few things to note with regards to funding subsidies (or granting them, whatever):
18:26:45 <rbergeron> Normally we want to do that in a well-announced meeting, so that nobody can claim that "they didn't know we were making decisions and they would have shown up to give their input and they disagree about _______" - not that that happens, but I think we should at least give fair warning. So maybe targeting a special meeting not during hte regular meeting is the best thing to do.
18:26:51 * rbergeron hopes that didn't get cut off
18:27:05 <misc> (didn't cut off)
18:27:31 <rbergeron> second: We should probably go through the tickets and make sure that applicants have actually said something about what they are going to do, or plan to do, what they are going to accomplish.
18:28:23 <rbergeron> "I plan to run a session on ____" or "I am going to work with this team on this new project" is different from requesting funding for "I want to come and meet people and learn," usually... though it's of course your call, in the end.
18:28:42 <rbergeron> the more applicants for subsidies we have, the more we need to think about how to prioritize the requests, and that is one way to help.
18:28:56 <rbergeron> so making sure people have done that (and encouraging them to be more specific if they haven't) is usually useful.
18:29:26 <misc> is there some kind of template for such request, maybe that should be added by default there for next time ?
18:29:42 <misc> ( cause that's useful indeed)
18:30:18 <rbergeron> Also: Checking tickets to make sure people have specified amounts - for example...
18:30:34 <rbergeron> https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/338 doesn't say anything about how much plane tickets are, etc.
18:30:45 <rbergeron> Which makes it hard to say yes, without us doing the work to research their tickets.
18:31:13 <rbergeron> misc: the funding request page tha tpepole visit before filing a ticket is pretty specific.
18:31:16 <rbergeron> https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/wiki/FundingRequest
18:31:26 <rbergeron> Remember to be specific about your goals for the event. Tell us what you're going to accomplish by being at FUDCon. Preference is given to people who are coming to FUDCon with a goal to make Fedora better, and a plan for doing it.
18:31:31 <rbergeron> Simply "meeting with people" or "talking about ways to do something" are not specific to FUDCon. Ideas can be discussed on mailing lists, after all. And although meeting face to face is a wonderful thing, that doesn't necessarily result in getting anything done.  <quote from page>
18:32:52 <rbergeron> That said: I think if we set a meeting for perhaps monday next week (I leave tuesday to go to venezuela, if you want my help, I can't guarantee that I'll be available after monday for a week or so)
18:33:22 <rbergeron> Though you're welcome to do it without me, espeically if you find people who have done subsidy grant meetings before - they might be willing to help you out / guide you.
18:33:35 <rbergeron> (or participate, at least!)
18:34:03 <rbergeron> And we don't have to do all the money in one meeting - we can set an amount we're comfortable with, meet for an hour, and then come back in another week or two and do another round.
18:34:12 * misc already did such meeting for another project but since that was for 1 single person, this may not be relevant
18:34:32 <shaiton_> ok, I thouth that would be this meeting but as you said, we didn't explained it clearly :)
18:35:14 * shaiton_ +1 for next Monday
18:35:22 <eseyman> +1 here too
18:35:31 <misc> during the amba meeting ?
18:35:53 <shaiton_> misc: which amba meeting?
18:36:38 <rbergeron> No, though you coudl advertise it during the ambassador meeting
18:36:51 <misc> shaiton_: french one
18:36:57 <misc> or a separate meeting ?
18:37:04 <rbergeron> Oh, i meant emea ambassador meeting.
18:37:07 <shaiton_> separated one is better ;)
18:37:10 <rbergeron> I would do a SEPARATE, not ambassador meeting.
18:37:16 <shaiton_> the EMEA one is on Wednesday
18:37:52 <shaiton_> misc: eseyman we can drop our next meeting, or do this one after (like 20UTC)
18:38:06 <misc> shaiton_: as you wish
18:38:32 * shaiton_ would prefer to have a long day at work.. later is better for me this time
18:38:34 <misc> (except that I usually sit at $pizzeria at that time of the day :/)
18:38:39 <shaiton_> :p
18:38:41 <eseyman> doing it after gets my vote
18:39:02 <shaiton_> so we agreed for 20:00 UTC, rbergeron fine with you?
18:39:04 <misc> who would be invited ?
18:39:07 <rbergeron> which day?
18:39:19 <shaiton_> On Monday (If I read correctly your proposal)
18:39:24 <misc> monday the 20th
18:39:35 <rbergeron> misc: usually it's "anyone who wants to show up and give input" - usually other ambassadors will come, just because we can't expect that we all know every single person who is asking for funding, or know about all projects
18:40:28 <misc> rbergeron: is there a process for difficult call ? ( cause I imagine that simple one are easy to deal )
18:41:41 <misc> forget, found the page on the wiki
18:41:50 <misc> ( like, just at the center of my current screen :( )
18:42:18 <misc> #url https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sponsoring_event_attendees
18:43:02 <rbergeron> misc: well, not really. voting sometimes works (+1, etc); sometimes we go back and ask people if, since they said they were willing to take a partial subsidy, if we can arrange that further to accommodate others, etc.
18:43:18 <rbergeron> we usually can't get everyone, particularly people not from the region.
18:43:49 <rbergeron> it's really hard to justify spending 1500-2000 on one person's expenses when it's 5-10% of the total budget for an event that has 100, 200, 300 people.
18:44:22 <misc> yup, agree
18:46:18 <shaiton_> rbergeron: works for you monday the 20th at 20:00?
18:46:38 <rbergeron> yes.... I think, lemme double check
18:46:46 <rbergeron> yes, that works
18:47:38 <shaiton_> #info We are going through all subsidies request on next Monday, the 20th at 20:00UTC. Please join and comment your ticket if needed.
18:47:57 <rbergeron> #info If your ticket doesn't have specific $ amounts, please update!
18:48:10 <misc> can someone post on a few relevant ml ?
18:48:19 <shaiton_> should we send a reminder to the fudcon planning mailing list only?
18:48:25 <shaiton_> misc: you?
18:48:27 <shaiton_> :)
18:48:49 <Southern_Gentlem> shaiton_,  i would put it on ambassadors and the devel list
18:48:53 <misc> shaiton_: I am not subscribed to many ml
18:49:41 <shaiton_> #action shaiton to post the reminder to few ML at least by Monday..
18:49:53 <shaiton_> Please don't rely to much on me guys.. :)
18:50:13 <rbergeron> :)
18:50:28 <rbergeron> I will try to do a blog post, and it's good to do it to ambassadors too.
18:51:10 <shaiton_> ok, so it's enough for this topic actually
18:51:36 <rbergeron> :)
18:52:10 <shaiton_> #topic hotel
18:53:08 <shaiton_> I think some people are waiting for the ticket before booking the hotel..
18:53:13 <shaiton_> If you have any other questions...
18:53:21 <misc> the ticket ?
18:53:42 <rbergeron> it's possible, yes.
18:53:50 <shaiton_> #info Keep in mind that you would be able to cancel your reservation for FREE until the Dday-1!! (even the Dday before 6pm i think)
18:53:57 <rbergeron> Do you have a list of how many rooms are booked?
18:53:57 <shaiton_> misc: Trac
18:53:59 <rbergeron> Or who has booked them?
18:54:33 <shaiton_> rbergeron: I had one (3 rooms 10 days ago).
18:54:43 <shaiton_> We have a bit more actually https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Paris_2012#Pre-registration
18:55:16 <rbergeron> shaiton: i meant - from the hotel itself, sometimes they will provide that
18:55:17 <shaiton_> #info if you are waiting for a roomate, please fill it on the the table ^
18:55:29 <shaiton_> rbergeron: yes. 3 when I called them.
18:55:41 <shaiton_> But I won't call them every weeks
18:56:01 <shaiton_> I will provide more data at the end of August
18:56:03 <shaiton_> (or should)
18:56:13 <rbergeron> ohhhh, i see
18:56:22 <rbergeron> shaiton_: so yeah, i think a lot of people are just booking through the website
18:56:30 <rbergeron> since it'sthe same price as the fedora rate
18:56:48 <shaiton_> yep..
18:57:43 <shaiton_> next topic
18:58:07 * rbergeron nods - i am going to have to shift over to marketing meeting with suehle in a minute or two
18:58:14 <shaiton_> #topic design
18:58:18 <shaiton_> no probs rbergeron
18:58:27 <shaiton_> https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/233
18:59:03 <shaiton_> Still nothing really defined, but the last update was nice (but the flag ^^)
18:59:07 <shaiton_> next topi
18:59:09 <shaiton_> +c
18:59:36 <shaiton_> #other tasks
18:59:42 <eseyman> !
18:59:48 <shaiton_> > eseyman
19:00:27 <eseyman> I'm thinking of putting up an anti-harassment policy
19:01:00 <eseyman> (based on some truly horrifying things I've read over the past few weeks
19:01:01 <eseyman> )
19:01:53 <eseyman> options are a) discuss it (planet ? mailing-list ?) b) start working on it now c) drop the whole thing
19:02:06 <eseyman> what do you guys recommend ?
19:02:14 <misc> what do you mean by "b)" ?
19:02:14 <rbergeron> eseyman: i think we've had the discussion before
19:02:32 <rbergeron> eseyman: and I think it's proably a project-wide decision, not just a "for this one event" because it sets some precedents
19:02:58 <rbergeron> and personally i'm not much in favor of it, but suppose i could be swayed
19:03:05 <eseyman> misc, taking the current templates availible (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_anti-harassment_policy)
19:03:22 <misc> eseyman: ok, because to me, discuss of it is also "working on it" :)
19:03:34 <eseyman> so this is a Board thing ?
19:03:59 <shaiton_> we already have http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
19:04:03 * rbergeron doesn't think that having a policy is going to make people who are assholes... not assholes
19:04:05 <eseyman> true
19:04:16 <misc> yup
19:04:32 <eseyman> but it sends a message
19:04:41 <misc> so what about a statement saying that we do not have a specific policy because we have the code of conduct ?
19:05:12 <rbergeron> I think if we want to consider it, we might talk to the board.
19:05:13 <misc> and then, instead of a policy, give practical information, and make sure we have proper training for the staff on how to react and so on ?
19:05:40 <eseyman> rbergeron, works for me
19:05:47 <rbergeron> IMO: anything beyond that is us guaranteeing people that nothing will happen to them (we can't actuallypromise that, because things happen), and there are laws in most countries against assaulting people, etc.
19:06:07 <rbergeron> And we usually do provide practical information inteh pamphlet, and encourage us to always do that.
19:08:01 <misc> some people have pledged to not come if there is no policy
19:08:26 <eseyman> yes, I've seen this in the Perl community
19:08:32 <misc> seen in python community
19:09:28 <rbergeron> well, like i said: if we want to make a project decdision on it, the board can probably look at it. but we shouldn't adopt it for one event and not another, etc.
19:10:17 <eseyman> that sounds reasonable
19:10:58 <rbergeron> and yes, some people will say they won't come if there isn't a policy; i suppose that's their right, and perhaps adding a policy would make that better, but i don't think we should be beholden to meet every demand to cater to every single group out there, either.
19:11:12 <rbergeron> i coud see not coming if we had a track record of horrible things happening. but that's not the case.
19:12:08 <rbergeron> anyway. :)
19:13:13 <rbergeron> open a board ticket would be my recommendation
19:15:16 <misc> #action open a ticket to the board to ask for the topic of policy for event ( global policy, not just for 1 event )
19:15:30 <shaiton_> misc: you forgot your name oO
19:15:32 <shaiton_> :)
19:16:06 <misc> so, next topic ?
19:16:12 <misc> #topic other tasks
19:16:29 <misc> (cause the topic was not changed first)
19:16:50 <shaiton_> oh, I probably added a blank space..
19:16:52 <shaiton_> :(
19:17:08 <shaiton_> #topic Open Floor
19:17:10 <shaiton_> :)
19:17:28 <eseyman> nothing to add here
19:17:34 <shaiton_> I am looking for the way to share the google spreadsheet..
19:17:41 <shaiton_> To record the link here
19:18:49 <shaiton_> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An1TeHVqOhP6dHAyX1ZYUUtFc2c1VnJhaHRJam9sZGc
19:19:08 <shaiton_> I've started it, ask me guys if you need write access. I should fill more things tonight
19:19:32 <shaiton_> gonna close the meeting if a minute if nothing more to add..
19:19:44 <misc> ok for me
19:19:54 <eseyman> same here
19:21:25 <rbergeron> shaiton_: there should be a button in the upper right corner of the sheet
19:21:41 <rbergeron> where you can add individuals (or ust make it world-readable, or world read/write)
19:21:50 <shaiton_> rbergeron: check the above link, I found it ;)
19:22:22 <eseyman> bye all
19:22:43 <shaiton_> eseyman is starving ^^
19:22:47 <shaiton_> Ok thanks guys
19:22:49 <shaiton_> #endmeeting