18:00:43 #startmeeting Fedora Board 18:00:43 Meeting started Thu May 30 18:00:43 2013 UTC. The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:43 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:50 #meetingname Fedora Board 18:00:50 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board' 18:01:21 * mhayden slides into the meeting 18:01:32 hello 18:01:34 #chair mhayden 18:01:34 Current chairs: mhayden rbergeron 18:01:36 word 18:01:40 #chair rdieter 18:01:40 Current chairs: mhayden rbergeron rdieter 18:01:45 not here 18:02:02 #chair jreznik 18:02:02 Current chairs: jreznik mhayden rbergeron rdieter 18:02:07 * naegeli tickles EvilBob savagely 18:02:16 that was fast chair :) 18:02:26 jreznik: i excel at typing 18:02:42 accel! 18:02:44 * inode0 is here and there today 18:02:47 * rbergeron is also starving and wants to move onwards 18:02:50 #chair inode0 18:02:50 Current chairs: inode0 jreznik mhayden rbergeron rdieter 18:02:54 Yo 18:03:09 #chair gholms 18:03:09 Current chairs: gholms inode0 jreznik mhayden rbergeron rdieter 18:03:18 my dog does not want to let me meet today, she wants to play :D 18:03:22 * DiscordianUK is here 18:03:27 peter said he might be running a few min. late depending on commute 18:03:30 * gholms is attending from a mobile phone again :-\ 18:04:05 i 18:04:09 * Sparks is here 18:04:11 err. i'll try that again 18:04:14 DiscordianUK: hi 18:04:15 lol 18:04:24 #chair sparks 18:04:24 Current chairs: gholms inode0 jreznik mhayden rbergeron rdieter sparks 18:04:25 hi 18:04:29 #chair misc 18:04:29 Current chairs: gholms inode0 jreznik mhayden misc rbergeron rdieter sparks 18:04:43 * misc is gonna be late 18:04:47 okay, we're missing peter and nb, we'll see if they make it 18:04:52 misc: ack, we'll be here 18:05:02 #topic Agenda 18:05:06 HI GUYS! 18:05:18 So a few things on agenda for today 18:05:30 I'll just mention I poked tickets from 2013 as you likely noticed hoping to at least resolve those before the new Board. 18:06:12 #info Finishing up release names list; tickets; Flocky things; other businessish things to wrap up / check in on 18:06:22 and whatever else pops up within a reasonable time frame. 18:06:33 #topic Announcements 18:06:49 Couple of announcements: 18:07:39 [getting a link, sorry for sucking] 18:08:20 okay. 18:08:38 #info Flock CFP closes May 31 (tomorrow) at midnight ET. 18:08:43 #link http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/submit_proposal 18:09:05 is there any way to check who's proposing what talks? 18:09:23 -> #fedora-flock 18:09:28 thx 18:09:39 dan408: or check discussion on the flock ml 18:09:52 thank you 18:10:09 #info 11:59pm eastern is 03:59UTC on Jun 1, for those keeping track at home 18:10:29 assuming I did that math right... 18:10:44 #info So please get your proposals in :) 18:10:48 it surely doesn't end eastern time?! 18:11:13 Well, that's what the mail said. 18:11:19 Sorry, my fault. 18:11:21 ok 18:11:34 Moving onwards: 18:11:38 But since I doubt we'll bother looking at it until Monday, feel free to take a few bonus hours. :) 18:11:49 Other things: 18:12:43 #info F19 beta is out; please download, try, be awesome. 18:12:50 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2013-May/003161.html 18:12:56 * mhayden woots 18:13:08 * pbrobinson is here 18:13:28 Also (as a drive-by scan) - I know that myself, inode0, mhayden will be at Red Hat Summit in two thursdays (june 13) 18:13:51 is anyone else from the board going to be at that event - just wonering how attendance will be that week 18:13:52 also F19 beta for ARM is out (and thanks for announcement rbergeron) 18:13:52 rbergeron: i'll be presenting dwalsh with his shirt ;) 18:14:04 mhayden: Will there be pictures? 18:14:18 mhayden: awesome 18:14:41 gholms: Gunnar Hellekson (sp?) told me that dan is bringing a camera 18:14:43 rbergeron: too far away for me :) 18:14:46 I won't be at summit this year :( 18:14:51 if not, we'll see how "proceeding as planned" goes and note a few ppl being unavailable 18:14:59 anyway. 18:15:00 * gholms will be at Eucalyptus's all-hands meeting then 18:15:05 Other announcements? 18:15:08 gholms: so i hear 18:15:45 going once, twice.... 18:15:53 Election stuff happening soon - we have lots of candidates 18:16:02 three tiiiiiimes a lady 18:16:05 Indeed. 18:16:21 #info Fedora 19 Change Deadline is on Jun 18 - last chance to do anything for this release without the need for Freeze Exception 18:16:32 And I did not have to run! 18:16:53 Yay? :P 18:16:55 #info Election nominations wrapped up; questionnaires due imminently, town halls start week of June 10 18:17:03 jreznik: thanks for the heads up :) 18:17:09 there were no questions submitted 18:17:12 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections 18:17:14 Were there any... 18:17:16 Yeah, that. 18:17:16 no 18:17:16 there were no questions submitted so the questionnaire will be very easy this time 18:17:19 Oh. 18:17:20 No kidding. 18:17:28 it's somewhat disappointing 18:18:00 the past few elections a small number of people added questions so there would be some 18:18:02 jwb: Feel free to answer the same pointless questions that were asked previously 18:18:10 very disappointing 18:18:12 it hasn't had any community interest in several cycles 18:18:36 lol 18:18:37 inode0, right. that's the disappointing part 18:18:42 not the questions themselves. 18:18:49 jwb: yeah, I think people tilted a bit towards that in lieu of town halls, and then it seems like perhaps we tilted back (or perhaps away from all - I guess we'll see in a few weeks) 18:19:16 Anyhoo. 18:19:32 jreznik: thanks for the update/reminder re: freeze 18:19:51 And now. We'll move onwards 18:20:01 #topic Release name candidates 18:20:09 woo! 18:20:25 * gholms gives rbergeron a basket of #accepted and #rejected directives ;) 18:20:47 * jreznik tried to fill it in - at least a few but gave up after 1000th kick off from etherpad and repeating the same sentence over and over 18:20:48 So we hashed through a crapton of these last week, and still have some left. I went through and did a bunch - though there are a few I'd like some second opinions on..... 18:21:01 jreznik: hoooooooray etherpad 18:22:03 rbergeron: got a url? 18:22:14 pbrobinson: http://openetherpad.org/p/ReleaseNames 18:23:23 so - the whole "skeptical crow" one is one where I'd love moar opinion; also, Green Clover is one where I'm sort of on the fence 18:23:35 link is tenuous, and um... googling for it is not recommended. 18:23:40 or at least clicking on the link. 18:23:42 virus is definitely a bad idea 18:23:51 --> Eyjafjallajökull <- well played 18:23:57 DONT SAY I DIDNT WARN YOU, for those of you who just googled for green clover. 18:24:04 green clover software seems to exist 18:24:06 rbergeron: bad choice for image search? 18:24:29 oh am i looking for the green ones? 18:24:40 so basically, stuff without text hasn't been checked yet? 18:24:53 rbergeron: I personally think "skeptical crow" is too like F18 18:24:57 we stopped at vegas I think 18:24:59 20th anniversary gift is platinum... ;) 18:25:00 poltergeist is a movie.. 18:25:02 inode0: ah - that makes it far easier - I didn't get it 18:25:23 please, can you go through them one at a time? otherwise it will be mayhem 18:25:46 Sure. 18:25:56 Let's start with: 18:26:07 * Sparks has a very laggy connection... 18:26:15 #topic Quantum Suicide 18:26:22 wow 18:26:31 suicide doesn't give me that warm/fuzzy feeling 18:26:40 same link - as for spherical cow - experiment 18:26:50 and suicide - well, not sure about it 18:26:52 bad 18:26:59 Yup. Same link. 18:27:19 #info quantum suicide - nack - same link as F19 18:27:29 agreed 18:27:30 #topic Secret Alien Artifact 18:27:37 lol 18:27:50 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_20 18:28:03 thanks rbergeron, just looking for it 18:28:06 Schrödinger's cat is an instance of high technical sophistication and so is a secret alien artifact. 18:28:26 hmm tenuous 18:28:37 So i wil be blunt: I have no idea why a secret alien artifact is ... of high technical sophistication 18:28:38 I'm not even convinced that that link is true. 18:28:43 -1 18:28:44 or schrodinger's cat for that matter 18:28:46 rbergeron: me neither 18:28:51 * mhayden doesn't see the link 18:29:03 bad link, yeah 18:29:09 okay. 18:29:11 bad link but good name :/ 18:29:26 #agreed bad link for secret alient artifact; nack'd 18:29:30 #topic Infinite Monkey 18:29:51 wiki says there is an infinite monkey studios 18:29:55 secret alien artifact (since you'll know where it is if it exists, it can prove existence of... the rest under login) 18:29:59 but it seems more like.... advertising.... 18:30:09 ok link 18:30:11 Schrödinger's Cat is an animal theoretically mistreated by scientists, and so is Infinite Monkey. 18:30:22 Link here, again, is .... 18:30:22 bad link 18:30:28 boo 18:30:37 that link is a 404, not a 302 18:30:37 tempted to say nack, no idea what infinite monkey means 18:30:42 Space Monkey was a significant Photoshop release name if that bothers anyone. 18:30:49 is there some reference Im missing? 18:30:52 and again it's theorem/experiment 18:30:57 monkey typing infinitely at the keyboard 18:31:02 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem 18:31:03 it's a theorem 18:31:06 rdieter: that is how I feel about many of these 18:31:07 * gholms nods 18:31:12 jreznik: that's not th elink presented though 18:31:15 link is ok with me 18:31:16 submission should include that, imo. :-/ 18:31:19 the link is animal theoretically mistreated 18:31:33 rdieter: yep, i think we should just say "no" if there isn't reference 18:31:33 explanation, links, etc... 18:31:41 misc: +1 18:31:43 I think there is a language issue there - arguably mistreated maybe 18:31:46 i guess i do get the link now 18:31:59 with added data, Im ok with this one. 18:32:02 fter all, our goal is not to have a maximum of names, but a minimum :) 18:32:18 do we have any other direct conflicts as far as name goes? 18:32:38 (other than ruth's citation of space monkey) 18:32:39 http://software.bootblock.co.uk/?id=infinitemonkeys 18:33:39 * rbergeron supposes there is chaos monkey as well, but i think one word isn't quite enough 18:33:47 * rdieter ack's this one 18:33:53 misc: IMO your goal should be to give the "community" the greatest number of choices possible from the suggestions presented. 18:34:09 inode0: do you suppose that's enough? It seems old and unused :) 18:34:13 inode0: I think this one is more fun - not a real software and I'd say no sue could come from author :) 18:34:21 if software by the same name is ok then I'm ok with this one 18:34:26 i think it's a good name i cant find any thing trademarking it 18:34:28 EvilBob: people can have the choice, provided they follow the process, and give enough information 18:34:56 and in case of big issue, legal is going to block it definitely, so why not ack 18:35:02 other ack's? 18:35:10 +1 18:35:13 ack for me 18:35:15 GEFM 18:35:24 #agreed Infinite Monkey is ack'd 18:35:37 #topic Maxwell's Demon 18:35:39 EvilBob: and inside me, there is a little voice asking for a application that force people to give enough information :p 18:36:05 name of a game 18:36:11 misc: Why give the "community" a vote at all? 18:36:42 So this note is here - This name was rejected for Fedora 19 by Peter Robertson, because it collides with a computer game 18:36:56 than nack 18:37:05 EvilBob: most of the "community" don't even bother to vote 18:37:11 I'm not sure who that is. ? 18:37:24 pbrobinson: Not relevant 18:37:28 No idea who that Robertson guy is 18:37:30 this meta argument can come later - I'd love to get this done 18:37:33 EvilBob: the community already decide what it propose for name, I do not think that's silencing the community to ask to people to do their homework and provides enough context, the community decide in the end 18:37:57 okay - there are games (multiple) by same name 18:38:00 given the previous one had a game named after it too... ack +1 18:38:01 (albeit very simple) 18:38:21 is it copyrighted? 18:38:27 pardon the dumb question, but what was the link f18->f19 again? 18:38:29 none seeming to be owned by ... anyone 18:38:33 or trademarked i mean 18:38:45 rdieter: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/History_of_Fedora_release_names ..... 18:38:54 Schrödinger's cat corresponds to a theoretical thought experiment. 18:39:06 danke 18:39:07 Spherical Cow is something that has never been observed, and may also therefore be considered as a theoretical thought experiment. 18:39:25 +1/-1? 18:39:36 +1 18:39:55 and this is just another thought experiment with the is-a faked up a bit 18:40:02 so +1 :) 18:40:08 Heh 18:40:19 anyone else? 18:40:22 that's the same link for me 18:40:35 -1 18:40:36 pretty much is the same link in reality 18:40:55 weak -1 due to same link 18:40:57 sorry, getting pulled away... afk for a bit. 18:41:05 rdieter: thanks :) 18:41:12 * inode0 follows the precedent of accepting just about any link 18:41:22 -1 18:41:44 Anyone else? 18:42:13 inode0: But misc says you should have a minimum number of names. 18:42:19 * rbergeron is -1 but hoping to not be tiebreaker 18:42:20 * gholms counts +2, -2 18:42:53 -1 18:42:59 if i get a vote here 18:43:08 * inode0 would have been -1 from the game connection but wouldn't be consistent since being talked into approving infinite monkey 18:43:38 okay, I guess we're -1, barring other board votes 18:44:02 #agreed maxwell's demon - nack, barring other board votes 18:44:03 -1 18:44:06 #topic The Doctor 18:44:25 what's the link? 18:44:53 no is-a given 18:44:54 Schrödinger's Cat is in a box and is related to time and space, the Doctor is in an (blue) box and is related to time and space. 18:44:58 If it's related to Dr Who I suspect it's a NACK due to various BBC copyrights etc 18:45:12 pbrobinson: yes, that's it related 18:45:19 other conflicts exist as well 18:45:23 They are both in boxes and related to time and space 18:45:35 (and both are imaginary creature) 18:45:37 I think we're all more or less in agreement here on conflicts at the bare minimum 18:45:41 The "time and space" bit is quite a stretch. 18:46:06 there are other conflicts - nack 18:46:08 #agreed Collisions with trademarks of well-known shows, collisions with software - nack'd 18:46:18 #topic Penrose 18:46:56 What'a the link here? 18:47:10 So apparently this is the name of some red hat product acquired moons ago; 18:47:13 nack, software name conflicts 18:47:23 I see several conflicts, nack 18:47:24 http://sourceforge.net/projects/penrose/ 18:47:27 nack 18:47:29 Schrödinger's Cat is a paradox, and so are Penrose objects (a penrose triangle or staircase) 18:47:41 Dang, you're right. 18:47:47 #agreed nack, conflicts with software projects, products 18:47:56 #topic Poltergeist 18:48:49 "they're heeeere" 18:49:16 Poltergeist - A PhantomJS driver for Capybara 18:49:25 * inode0 isn't seeing anything on this one 18:49:47 there is a github project, and also it's just ... an antipattern 18:50:05 inode: They're ghosts so I'm not surprised ;-) 18:50:08 and a video game. 18:50:22 probably a movie too 18:50:27 Recently released. 18:50:47 * jreznik is looking for link 18:50:53 * inode0 doesn't care much about those things 18:50:57 1982 and one in dev according to imdb 18:51:04 so I'm Schrödinger's cat is a mysterious creature between life and death and so is a poltergeist. 18:51:18 interesting 18:51:22 ack +1 18:51:29 movies are ok I'd say, the github project seems to be a small one, ack I'd say 18:51:38 +1 18:51:42 I think the "released video game" thing (it's a game for That Other Platform) 18:51:54 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AQF345C 18:51:56 there is one for megadrive too 18:52:23 Honestly, I wonder if it isn't generic enough already. +1, let's see what legal thinks. 18:52:28 mhh no, not the same name 18:52:40 okay, fair enough 18:52:45 agreed 18:52:50 #agreed Ack'd - Poltergeist 18:53:01 #topic Fairytale 18:53:24 Schrödinger's Cat experiment did't happened in the real life, so is a fairytale. 18:53:52 (there's a fairytale studios that does ios apps) 18:54:01 I do'nt know that the link is .... valid 18:54:06 perhaps as a restrutured sentence 18:54:17 can be restated I think 18:54:24 it's not a link really, it's a description of the name 18:54:28 If reworded it makes sense. 18:54:45 both are something that didn't happen in real life 18:54:54 ... is a fiction ... 18:55:01 afk for a moment 18:55:03 * gholms nods 18:55:07 okay, so it sounds like the is-a link is valid (enough) - collisions? 18:55:23 Fairytale is a song, a movie. 18:55:28 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119095/ 18:55:31 a manga 18:55:39 fairytale is a common word and will be found connected to anything 18:55:40 Justin Bieber - Fairytale 18:55:41 +1 18:55:52 Only software matters, though. 18:56:08 * inode0 especially likes its connection to New York 18:56:10 the fairytale studios think is first google hit for "fairytale + software" 18:56:15 http://fairytale-studios.com/ 18:56:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairytale_of_New_York 18:56:33 i think have to -1 nack 18:56:38 best holiday song ever 18:57:00 fairytale-studios.com - software for iOS 18:57:02 * inode0 digresses 18:57:26 * rbergeron is -1 ... looks for other votes 18:57:32 inode0: most over played holiday song ever 18:57:36 +1, same reason as before 18:57:55 pbrobinson: well, in your part of the world maybe :) 18:58:05 gholms: name of a company, not a game? 18:58:23 Doh! 18:58:32 -1 due to conflict 18:58:34 -1 18:58:43 * rbergeron is ust suggesting, not saying as The Law 18:58:47 inode0: I went to Cairo for work the week before christmas... a bonus was I never heard it once! 18:58:48 Then I have no choice. 18:58:53 -1 18:59:03 -1 18:59:13 #agreed fairytale nak'd - conflicts with companies of SW nature 18:59:30 #topic Eyjafjallajökull 18:59:47 fails is-a test 18:59:47 a what? 18:59:51 * rdieter predicts no conflicts here. 18:59:54 What the heck is that? 18:59:58 Schrödinger's Cat is great umlauted name for Fedora release, and so is Eyjafjallajökull. 19:00:05 -1 19:00:06 as Eyjafjallajökull is not the name for a Fedora release 19:00:15 Eyjafjallaj�kull is a glaciar 19:00:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull 19:00:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull 19:00:31 Anything is potentially a name for a release. 19:00:39 nix\: neat, thanks 19:00:45 -1 19:00:48 i think it's just swell, +1 ack 19:00:57 :) rdieter 19:01:03 it needs to need be generally pronounceable across multiple languages 19:01:04 Nice 19:01:11 +1 19:01:19 +1. The link only works once anyway. :) 19:01:27 pbrobinson: we should probably add that criteria :) 19:01:40 inode0: even with rewording slightly? 19:01:51 is a bit complicated for pronunciation: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull-bjarmason.ogg 19:01:57 (is a great potential name) 19:02:09 hey, we have icelandic peaks as meeting room names - democracy and elections :) 19:02:24 we already had that basic link with beefy miracle part 2 didn't we? 19:02:49 * rdieter listed to that ogg file 6 times, still no idea 19:03:06 inode0 has a point, about recycled link 19:03:11 indeed 19:03:14 * rdieter changes to -1 19:03:16 Close but this one wasn't on 19's list. 19:03:17 +1 19:03:38 So it can't be the same link. 19:03:42 +1, -1? 19:03:46 -1 19:03:52 -1 19:04:12 * gholms remains +1 19:04:17 -1 19:04:38 #agreed -1 eyja__________ nack'd - recycled is-a link 19:04:50 * rbergeron notes that when she's saying agreed she's meaning "vote went this way" 19:05:02 (for the sake of time, i'm not closing my eyes, ppl can read logs) 19:05:03 * gholms nods 19:05:03 I thought recycled link only applied to the actual final release names 19:05:05 too bad really, that one had potential 19:05:28 * naegeli herfs a thick shit on the flood "splud, thup, rhup, tharp" 19:05:50 naegeli: there will be no herfing of thick shits in board meetings. thanks! 19:06:24 Viking-Ice: true, it's not a black or white issue. those of us voting -1 feel it's too close or similar 19:06:42 Viking-Ice: the F....17-f18 (when beefy miracle won) link is the question here 19:06:46 (speaking for myself at least) 19:07:04 #topic Wanderlust 19:07:22 (vikin-ice - not changing topic on you, just trying to move on at least with hte names) 19:07:41 Schrödinger's cat is a concept with a German ring to it that contains an immanent intention of breaking free and getting away. So is Wanderlust. 19:07:56 what? 19:07:58 pretty obvious your goal then is not to have too many release name option for the community to vote upon and it any release name being hard to pronounce is subjective to which country and language you speak ( english might just as well be hard to pronounce ) 19:08:14 tenuous link :-/ 19:08:16 Viking-Ice: misc already covered that 19:08:19 weak (too long) link, conflict with emacs/email client software, nack -1 19:08:47 ( Eyjafjallajökul has been proposed several times before not by me btw I just threw it in for fun ) 19:08:48 rdieter: other collisions - (LLC in florida of software company, wanderlust travel software/service, etc) 19:08:52 link makes no sense to me 19:08:54 * jreznik would vote for Viking-Ice but was afk, already voted for meeting rooms (in the other building;-) 19:09:04 inode0: same here, no sense 19:09:07 Viking-Ice: they stated "our goal is not to have a maximum of names, but a minimum" 19:09:09 -1 19:09:16 EvilBob: I stated 19:09:18 Viking-Ice: i don't think anyone voted against it due to pronunciation (I didnt at least) 19:09:23 evilbob: "we" and "misc" are not the same 19:09:26 EvilBob: but that's only my opinion 19:09:27 my goal is to ack all names that pass the requirements 19:09:34 inode0: +1 19:09:37 inode0: +1 19:09:38 Wanderlust is: a song of R.E.M and Bj�rk, and a movie directed bye David Wain 19:09:46 by* 19:09:51 So it's misc's goal, not "our" goal 19:09:53 EvilBob: and my goal is to not overload legal team because i think they already have enough work 19:10:21 until they complain I'm not worried about that 19:10:21 An a Email program http://email.about.com/cs/linuxclientrevs/gr/wanderlust.htm 19:10:25 inode0: as is mine. if we get to a point where we have enough original names then we might "pare things down" but given that everyone and their mother has an iphone app these days those items are dwindling 19:10:57 So many good names historically have been denied for Bogus reasons at best, why change that? Right misc? 19:11:00 we should just use "20" 19:11:09 I'm pretty sure we're going to have a concise list anyhow based on just folowing rules 19:11:11 * rdieter waits for "Fedora 20" 19:11:19 ^^^!!! 19:11:20 err "fedora twenty" 19:11:22 * rbergeron moves onward 19:11:22 Wanderlust is a software for iPhone. 19:11:26 EvilBob, kinda beets it purpose gathering release names from the community hence we might just as well finally drop the release names. I'm pretty sure the release name survey never mentioned release names being limited to x number 19:11:31