17:00:29 #startmeeting Cloud WG weekly meeting 17:00:29 Meeting started Wed Nov 6 17:00:29 2013 UTC. The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:41 * rbergeron is here 17:00:59 * frankieonuonga is here 17:01:12 #chairs rbergeron frankieonuonga number80 17:01:18 #chair rbergeron frankieonuonga number80 17:01:18 Current chairs: frankieonuonga number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:01:23 ooh, a stahnma :) 17:01:28 oh hai 17:01:54 we're missing a bunch of folks, don't even have quorum right now 17:02:08 I think we give them two minutes 17:02:22 just to give them a chance to join 17:02:34 * geppetto is here 17:02:39 #chair geppetto 17:02:39 Current chairs: frankieonuonga geppetto number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:03:02 I'm will to make drastic statements and undercut all thought and protocol. Does that help? 17:03:04 s/will/willing 17:03:18 stahnma: we'd expect nothing less 17:04:19 #chair mattdm 17:04:19 Current chairs: frankieonuonga geppetto mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:04:27 hi 17:04:30 alright let's get started 17:04:35 #topic Roll call 17:04:36 yebo 17:04:44 first thanks for coming in guys 17:04:47 * samkottler is here :) 17:04:48 welcome to this weeks meeting 17:05:00 i'm at lisa at the booth so attention may be split 17:05:49 mattdm: no worries 17:05:53 #topic Announcements 17:06:04 anyone got anything to announce this weke? 17:06:05 week** 17:06:11 how's the PRD creation going? 17:06:40 yeah…i need guys to kindly get back to me on roles in the group . i need to work on that landing page as soon as possible 17:07:15 frankieonuonga: we might not initially have formal roles for everyone - is that blocking the creation of the landing page? 17:07:22 samkottler: not much 17:07:40 no no 17:07:46 though nearyd kindly shared with us personas written for openstack 17:07:48 i mean in terms of the group consists of 17:07:50 designers 17:07:54 ambassadors ...e.t.c 17:07:58 not exactly who 17:08:06 but just roles in the group. 17:08:16 it allows people to come in and say i would like to do ambassador 17:08:19 or developer stuff 17:08:41 I'm in favor of having roles and responsiblities but also want to make sure nothing falls on just one person 17:08:43 frankieonuonga: do you want to send out a mail about that to get feedback on what people want to work on vs. the needs of the WG? 17:09:01 i sent an email but guys have not responded 17:09:01 mattdm: +1 17:09:06 but I can send another one 17:09:30 #action frankieonuonga to bump his initial mail about roles + responsibilities 17:09:31 but in terms of what people want to work on that might limit it to officials 17:09:48 but let me see what to do about it 17:09:50 thanks 17:10:20 +1 for roles 17:10:42 ok cool. I will send it out . 17:10:42 one of the shorter term things we need done (due in 8 days IIRC) is to finish the PRD and send it to FESCo 17:11:01 what is PRD? 17:11:13 samkottler: No, the PRD is due in January 17:11:22 eight days from now is the Governance document 17:11:27 sgallagh: ah okay, so we've got more time than I expected 17:11:37 sgallagh: right, thanks 17:11:39 oh... I mean... yes. Get it to us in a week... :) 17:12:12 where does the governance document stand at this point? we voted on a few key points last week - has that stuff been writtne up yet? 17:12:53 rbergeron: got any input on that? ^^ 17:12:57 frankieonuonga: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD 17:13:20 frankieonuonga: it's the specifications that will define what are the goals of the future cloud product 17:13:30 wow! ok 17:13:46 but i think we should set a group deadline of december sometime 17:13:55 sorry. i am now back (phone rang) 17:13:59 cause once people go on xmas breaks ..well we all know how that goes 17:14:13 frankieonuonga: +1, it never hurts having a reviewing deadline 17:14:23 the PRD ... I haven't had time (vacation and all) but I should be able to make some decent progress at least on the marketing-ish portions of it. 17:14:34 proposal: put together a group of people to get the PRD into a final draft state by december 15th 17:14:34 I don't know if anyone's read through it and has questions or not regarding ... even if it makes sense, etc. 17:14:54 i am +1 sam's idea 17:15:00 dec 15 is perfect 17:15:06 samkottler: +1 17:15:12 rbergeron: I've read through it. I think it needs more content...less headings :) 17:15:17 i also will volunteer to assist 17:15:31 stahnma: heading flow into content :) 17:15:33 rbergeron: no, I'm reading it. I'll comment in a bit. 17:15:36 stahnma: yes, I agree at least about the content - it was mostly an outline and whatnot :) 17:15:50 like: is this even the format to use (though it's fairly close to a standard PRD format) 17:15:53 I know. :) 17:16:12 rbergeron: i re-read it, but i'm waiting that openstack personnas are finalized so we could fill in the user profiles/use cases parts 17:16:14 my opinion is for now we fill in all the topics…just to have things straight in..then later we will decide on what to send 17:16:29 this makes sure we are sure of what we want in terms of all parts 17:16:35 i could kickstart personnas, but the ones provided are quite good already 17:16:37 fwiw I like the approach of making an outline and filling in 17:16:53 number80: i think we may have things outside just the openstack personas that might work as well 17:16:57 mattdm: same, it makes figuring out what's gonna end up where much easier 17:17:47 but they could be a nice start, assuming the content is reusable under a nice license and such 17:18:28 who is interested on working on the PRD? 17:18:40 * rbergeron as previously noted :) 17:18:41 * frankieonuonga is in to work on it 17:18:45 samkottler: I am, but I don't realistically know how much time I'll have. 17:18:48 rbergeron: agreed 17:19:02 also, do we want to take a vote on the dec 15 proposal? 17:19:19 #info rbergeron frankieonuonga stahnma samkottler to work on the PRD 17:19:22 samkottler: i am 17:19:24 we have 8 chapters…three a week should not be hard…we should be done really fast 17:19:36 dec 15 +1 17:19:46 (sorry, i am answering a gazillion of urgent emails :) ) 17:19:58 +1 since I proposed it 17:20:01 i assume 8 because of what is on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD 17:21:08 makes sense 17:22:00 ok so we need other guys on the board to vote to proceed with this 17:22:41 +1 17:22:59 +1 to dec 15 17:23:13 +1 17:23:54 #info the goal for PRD completion is december 15th, the pace needed for that will be determined on the list 17:24:12 anything else that's overflow from last meeting that we want to bring up before we talk about tickets? 17:24:59 ok so lets proceed to next item on the list 17:25:13 #agreed the goal for PRD completion is december 15th, the pace needed for that will be determined on the list (+5) 17:25:20 sorry, still getting used to meetbot :) 17:25:55 #topic pending tickets 17:26:26 #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/1 17:26:46 so dgilmore has asked for someone to work with him on rel-eng tasks 17:26:50 is there anyone who is interested in that? 17:27:04 i was interested in rel eng as my primary role 17:27:08 in the group 17:27:11 dgilmore: How much time would that take, roughly? 17:27:19 geppetto: it will vary 17:27:31 geppetto: and some of that depends on what you want to deliver 17:27:33 but i needed to find out what is required . 17:27:43 geppetto: if its decided to do weekly update images etc 17:27:52 then likely quite a bit 17:28:04 frankieonuonga: If you want it, you got it :) … but if not I can probably do it, as I'm working with koji anyway atm. 17:28:22 we need a lot of tooling work to automate building and uploading of images etc 17:28:26 I'd be willing to help out after the PRD + the item on the list (GCE) are done 17:28:59 i think …em... 17:29:03 part of it will be to liason with me to make sure im kept updated on reqirement changes 17:29:19 part working on best practices to build and publish images 17:29:24 i think that if geppetto can assist me with learning koji i will take it up 17:29:30 part working on tooling to do things 17:29:43 koji is really a small part of it 17:29:47 and I would be humbled and pleased to do this 17:30:16 dgilmore:ok what else is required ? 17:30:25 do we have plans to upload images to clouds other than EC2? 17:30:30 I'd love to do it, but again, I'd probably promise more time than I really have. 17:30:49 dgilmore: yeah, there's already google compute in the works and might be others 17:30:49 frankieonuonga: well working on automating the upload of images to clouds we support 17:30:54 dgilmore: GCE is the next topic on the agenda 17:31:19 samkottler: right, so part of this will be making sure we can upload simply and easily to every cloud we plan to 17:31:23 dgilmore: it would make sense (rackspace should be the next one right after EC2) but only if someone helps you 17:31:24 frankieonuonga: ^ 17:31:24 dgilmore: if you can point me in the right direction ..i can do it 17:31:28 not a problem 17:31:30 dgilmore: mhm 17:32:00 some of the clouds have very specific tools so a lot of the job will be learning how all the different clouds deal with images, I imagine 17:32:23 well writing scripts to upload to them all 17:32:35 dgilmore: that too, of course 17:32:37 samkottler: would it make sense to have liaison with major cloud providers ? 17:32:38 #link https://git.fedorahosted.org/git/cloud-image-service.git 17:32:46 dgilmore: ok got it. will take it up . 17:33:10 and I am on liaison with cloudstack 17:33:14 so we do say ./upload-image-to-clouds.py and it automagically goes to all and puts the into into the tree for all clouds like i manaully put into the AMI file today 17:33:19 and at work we are building our own thing 17:33:23 so it should help 17:33:49 #info frankieonuonga will work with dgilmore and others in rel-eng to communicate about WG plans and help automate different processes 17:33:59 number80: I think that makes sense 17:34:07 number80: mattdm has been doing that for a while I know 17:34:37 ok great.so dgilmore will def mail you tomorrow to see the way forward with this 17:34:52 frankieonuonga: cool, please join #fedora-releng 17:35:03 excellent, thanks frankieonuonga! 17:35:05 wait, are we all on teh same page here about "images for a public cloud" vs. "images for different types of IaaS" ? 17:35:23 rbergeron: we want both :) 17:35:31 cool. sure 17:35:34 ideally they are the same 17:35:40 vs. "having a tool that people can also use to make an image and directly upload it into their own public cloud" 17:35:41 or "all" depending on your worldview 17:36:08 dgilmore: i agree, the scope of what was discussed here seems to be all over the place and i was just making sure we were all talking about apples and apples 17:36:58 rbergeron: well, i think the scope is that we make the images like we do today, which works in public clouds and IaaS 17:37:18 so to clarify, we're talking about official fedora images that rel-eng produces for AWS and other public clouds right now, was well as private clouds, is that right rbergeron? 17:37:20 rbergeron: but expand to upload to more public clouds than amazon 17:38:16 We should be able to test images at least on both eucalyptus and openstack on infra cloud 17:38:17 samkottler: rel-eng produces & (uploads to public clouds) + (makes available for private clouds) 17:38:49 and: tooling so people can make their own images and deploy them as needed (AIUI diskimagebuilder may be standalone?) 17:39:28 rbergeron: the job of building tools to make things easier for people who want to build their own images feels outside the scope of this role to me 17:39:46 rbergeron: all the tooling we use should be documented so people can do as we do 17:39:48 guys…i am sorry but i feel like we are really going into detail of something that can be discussed on email . can we do other tickets then if we have time come back to this ..but this is just me ..i might be very very wrong 17:40:27 okay, fair enough - we can move onwards 17:40:27 * samkottler thinks this is important to sort out and will be easier in real time 17:40:34 we've got one other ticket 17:40:41 oh, that's it? 17:40:46 #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/2 17:40:50 well - my point was mostly to make sure we were talking about the same things was all :) 17:40:55 since i was seeing references to both 17:41:09 mattdm rbergeron and I have been talking with the google compute engine folks 17:41:20 rbergeron: well I want to be able to deliver sanely everything that the WG wants 17:41:31 and they're interested in seeing fedora images on the platform 17:41:38 that is nice 17:41:39 rbergeron: so to me the role of liason is to help me do that 17:41:47 * nirik can answer questions about the fedora infrastructure private cloud if there are any. 17:41:52 GCE is still private beta, you need some gold or whatever metal account to get access to it 17:42:01 UNOBTAINIUM 17:42:07 sorry, had to be said 17:42:15 rbergeron: :) 17:42:17 rbergeron: ;) 17:42:39 number80: that's not true anymore 17:42:39 nirik: welcome man..did not know you were here…but seriously dude, do you ever sleep? 17:42:44 you can just signup now AFAIK 17:42:45 rbergeron: i want to make sure all doors and options are open 17:42:45 nirik: which IaaS are deployed on infra and could we get access keys for our testing purposes ? 17:42:48 samkottler: awesome 17:43:00 dgilmore: fair enough, and that is appreciated :) 17:43:19 so re: GCE, there's an agreement that everyone who wants to work on the images has to sign 17:43:21 number80: openstack 17:43:26 number80: openstack folsom is what we have currently. yes, we could create accounts for people if there was a list of them or whatever. 17:43:47 okay - do we want to move on? I think maybe we are all on the same page here, minus the "tools to do things" and if that's in our scope or not but ... maybe that's a thing the PRD can sort out as well 17:44:06 yeah we need to move on..dont have much time 17:44:13 yup 17:44:35 samkottler: next :) 17:44:49 google compute 17:45:14 as I said before, people who want access to the image building tools need to sign an agreement with google 17:45:31 that gives you access to more advanced tools 17:45:52 so for those of us who are way across the globe…what happens? how do we sign ? 17:46:14 frankieonuonga: it's not an actual signature, just the click of a button to say you agree 17:46:28 samkottler: what exactly are the image building tools? and what is the license of them? 17:46:29 oh…ok 17:46:36 * frankieonuonga feeling stupid 17:46:53 dgilmore: I haven't looked too closely, but they're all proprietary to the google cloud AFAICT 17:46:58 so that's fun 17:47:05 samkottler: for ec2 uploading we use euca2ools and not amazons tools because we have a requirement of everything being open source 17:47:05 one more q…is this a black box 17:47:07 frankieonuonga: naw, I wasn't clear about it :) 17:47:13 GCE client API are also fun to use ... 17:47:30 samkottler: so we will need an open tool to use 17:47:37 i would sign if i know exactly what I am running on my machine. 17:48:18 #action samkottler to do more research into the actual tools and their licenses that are required to build GCE images 17:48:28 sorry, I was afk 17:48:29 dgilmore: AWS is rewriting their tools as FOSS (AFAIK MIT), aws-cli is on my TODO (i still have to fix packaging for dependencies) 17:48:42 number80: that would be awesome 17:48:44 if you need help/people to talk to, etc for GCE, I know people :) 17:48:57 dgilmore: i'll look to push this soon :) 17:49:09 number80: i want to have HVM images but to date ive not been able to upload and register them right 17:49:28 stahnma: this should be interesting . cool! thanks 17:49:37 we work them quite a bit 17:49:51 so assuming there are open tools, which I will find out today, who is interested in working on those images? 17:49:56 gcutil is open 17:50:02 stahnma: can you kindly mail me so we can follow this up 17:50:10 stahnma: it has bundled libs IIRC :( 17:50:16 samkottler: boo 17:50:23 samkottler: we have some other code that interfaces with GCE 17:50:28 I'll check licenses 17:51:04 stahnma: thanks - if I'm wrong and gcutil is "packageable" then I can do that this weekend 17:51:19 just as a comment …i dont think guys will run stuff that interfaces with a tool. people can be paranoid about their stuff running…like I personally am paranoid 17:51:20 it's in ubuntu ;) 17:51:39 frankieonuonga: no, interfaces with their API, not the tool 17:51:50 stahnma: that might be fighting *against* your case :) 17:52:07 stahnma: If it's not in debian too, that probably means it's bad. 17:52:17 geppetto: heh, yeah exactly 17:52:58 mostly FOSS bundled library, it should be ok 17:53:03 samkottler: I think I just keep on trolling all day 17:53:13 i could give a shot to packaging 17:53:16 stahnma: just to be clear, so it interfaces with what is used to build the images right? 17:53:48 frankieonuonga: hmm. I'll have to check. I was talking more about working with images. So, I might be orthoginal 17:53:55 frankieonuonga: we can figure that out later 17:53:58 we've only got 7 minutes left 17:54:14 ok next 17:54:14 number80: that'd be great, let me know us know if you need help or a review 17:54:21 #topic open floor 17:54:21 samkottler: ok 17:54:28 stahnma: lets talk on email please 17:54:34 #info hguemar looking to package gcutil 17:55:15 since nirik kindly offered us to give us account on fedora cloud, who needs one for testing images on openstack ? 17:55:44 * samkottler has one already 17:55:55 note however that uploading images still takes admin I think... at least I don't know what privs are needed for that off hand. 17:56:19 * stahnma has other openstacks available 17:56:37 nirik: it should be possible to give away image uploading priviledges 17:56:53 * number80 has devstack instances 17:57:03 yeah, it's a matter of figuring it out. ;) 17:57:18 here a stack, there a stack, everywhere a stack stack 17:57:35 old mac donald had a stack? ;) 17:57:44 never mind the stacks :) 17:57:53 number80: that is a great shirt :) 17:57:53 rbergeron: I assume you'll be performing your little ditty at the next flock? 17:58:02 samkottler: i have the overalls to go with it 17:58:19 oh god :P 17:58:30 I hope I can make it to net flock..hopefully can save enough for it 17:58:53 frankieonuonga: there's sponsoring if you need it 17:59:03 frankieonuonga: there's also sponsorship :) 17:59:09 what number80 said 17:59:13 number80: oh. well that would be nice 17:59:20 okay, anything else people have got? 17:59:21 samkottler: cool 17:59:41 samkottler: i'm done for my part :) 18:00:01 I don't have anything just yet 18:00:22 but if guys want to reach me apart from meeting i am all open. 18:00:32 even cell phone number..e.t.c e.t.c 18:00:48 3....2..... 18:01:07 ciao guys 18:01:08 #endmeeting