16:34:47 <dgilmore> #startmeeting
16:34:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 13 16:34:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is dgilmore. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:34:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:34:54 <dgilmore> #meetingname releng
16:34:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'releng'
16:35:03 <dgilmore> #topic, roll call
16:35:20 * masta is here
16:35:26 <dgilmore> who is here?
16:35:38 * nirik is sort of here, but trying to catch up on the email flood.
16:37:15 <dgilmore> :)
16:37:49 * abadger1999 sorta here
16:38:09 * sharkcz is here
16:40:53 <dgilmore> okay lets get started
16:41:00 <dgilmore> #topic tickets
16:41:08 <dgilmore> #link https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/report/10
16:41:23 <dgilmore> there is no tickets marked for meeting this week
16:41:35 <dgilmore> is tehre any that people want to discuss?
16:42:33 <sharkcz> just FYI - I got the new infra for s390 builders (more memory & disk space), going to rebuild them in the next days
16:42:46 <dgilmore> sharkcz: awesome
16:43:17 <nirik> I was hoping to bring up rawhide compose improvements, but I am not really prepared. ;)
16:43:20 <dgilmore> i guess no tickets
16:43:40 <dgilmore> nirik: no problem lets have a quick chat about it in a bit
16:43:51 <dgilmore> #topic epel7
16:44:16 <dgilmore> so we have epel7 setup and nightly compoises running
16:44:21 <dgilmore> composes
16:44:42 <dgilmore> we are building for ppc64 and x86_64
16:45:01 <dgilmore> sharkcz: i did wonder if we could get a s390x builder and add epel
16:45:08 <dgilmore> add to epel
16:45:28 <dgilmore> would need at least one dedicated builder
16:45:33 <dgilmore> preferably two
16:45:34 <sharkcz> dgilmore: I think we could get one
16:45:49 <dgilmore> i dont know if there is the desire or value in doing it
16:46:21 <nirik> if the package set is the same on all, maintainers likely wouldn't care too much.
16:46:31 <dgilmore> yeah
16:46:32 <nirik> the problem in the past has been the package set differences. ;(
16:46:49 <dgilmore> I did talk to PM and they told me that they would fix the differences in package sets
16:46:49 <sharkcz> sometime people are asking about epel for s390, but who knows
16:47:10 <dgilmore> but im not sure they were not just trying to make me happy and in the end will do nothing
16:48:12 <dgilmore> we would need to build any arch specifc packages for s390 import and move along
16:48:40 <dgilmore> im doing daily signing runs
16:49:06 <dgilmore> largely this is all a FYI item
16:49:21 <dgilmore> does anyone have any questions on epel ?
16:50:26 <dgilmore> #topic SCM admins
16:50:53 <dgilmore> so one thing thats come up a few times lately and kinda came up again with epel7 is scm admins
16:51:07 <dgilmore> the people processing the requests for git branches
16:51:49 <dgilmore> right now it is controlled by some groups in fas and is largely only processed by two people witha  few others doing it at times
16:52:26 <nirik> dgilmore: if you are wanting to add more folks, I'll note we had a policy before only adding new people with a majority vote of existing members. ;)
16:53:05 <dgilmore> ive been thinking that it probably should be pulled into Release Engineering. and that we should invite those in cvsadmin to join releng and manage it all under the releng banner
16:53:46 <tflink> I assume that this meeitng is going to last longer than 10 more minutes or so?
16:53:49 <abadger1999> dgilmore: We could do that -- I brought htis up several years ago and we sorta brought it into the fedora-infrastructure (the SOPs for that group got documented in infra space)
16:53:56 <dgilmore> nirik: its all very adhoc today and really works but there is zero visability into it
16:54:08 <abadger1999> but other than the SOPs I think it is still independent enough to move to rel-eng instead.
16:54:39 <dgilmore> tflink: the meeting starts at 16:30 and goes for an hour, its documented in the wiki
16:55:08 <tflink> dgilmore: I thought fedocal was the new place to keep track of the meeting channels
16:55:16 <abadger1999> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/infra/docs/scmadmin.txt
16:55:24 <dgilmore> tflink: perhaps and i just missed the memo
16:55:34 <tflink> either way, we'll just use -2
16:56:34 <dgilmore> abadger1999: it is very independant, everytime there is questions about branching etc people come running to releng
16:56:43 <abadger1999> dgilmore: <nod>  Yep.
16:57:24 <dgilmore> #action dgilmore to reach out and invite scmadmins to join releng
16:57:33 <nirik> I don't care who owns a process as long as it's well done, etc.
16:57:38 <dgilmore> since there is no objections ill get things moving
16:57:43 <nirik> my main concern in moving it to releng would be:
16:58:13 <nirik> we still need to make sure all the people in it/doing it are experenced packagers so they know what requests to not process.
16:59:40 <dgilmore> right, and in theory that knowledge should exist in releng members, I don't want to stop the people doing it today from doing it. just make things more visable, and when people come to releng with questions we can answer them rather than punt
17:00:08 <nirik> like that pending ticket? :)
17:00:12 <abadger1999> dgilmore: <nod>  And mrve the infra SOP over to a releng SOP.
17:00:27 <dgilmore> abadger1999: yep
17:00:33 <nirik> I don't know if limb is getting burnt out... he's been doing pretty much all of them for a while.
17:00:42 <nirik> I did pretty much all of them for a few years.
17:00:44 <dgilmore> we would need to move the process-git-requests script over as well
17:00:58 <abadger1999> Yeah -- we could look at addind and pruning people again.
17:01:15 <dgilmore> nirik: yeah. he is quite aggesively doing the epel7 requests also
17:01:23 <nirik> cool.
17:01:49 <dgilmore> but i don't want him to burn out
17:02:02 <nirik> yeah, so a rotation like signing/pushing might be nice.
17:02:03 <dgilmore> and i dont want them to silently stop being done
17:02:18 <dgilmore> yeah
17:02:53 <dgilmore> so ideally in the end all that would happen is things are more visable and transparent
17:03:02 <dgilmore> and no one has to do everything
17:03:06 <nirik> right, we should talk to existing scmadmins... anyhow...
17:03:19 <dgilmore> yeah. ill bring it up with them and get feedback
17:03:24 <dgilmore> see what they think
17:03:41 <dgilmore> if they reject it maybe we can get the same thing done some other way
17:04:00 * nirik is thinking of closing wontfix that one ticket, but hasn't gotten to it.
17:04:25 <dgilmore> nirik: the one about processing requests ?
17:04:52 <nirik> yeah, unless they can show it's some kind of widespread problem rather than toes stepped on over a year ago now
17:05:52 <dgilmore> yeah
17:06:01 <dgilmore> thats part of why i brought this up
17:06:35 <dgilmore> okay if noone has anything else ill reachout to the exiting cvsadmin members and follow up
17:06:44 <dgilmore> #topic rawhide changes
17:06:51 <dgilmore> nirik: what was your thoughts?
17:07:26 <nirik> so, there's lots of things we could improve on the rawhide compose... and might be a good way for folks to contribute.
17:07:31 <nirik> short/term:
17:07:54 <nirik> * report on pungify status in the daily email... ie, say if images failed or worked.
17:08:09 <nirik> * some later report on live/appliance composes.
17:08:34 <nirik> (ie, say what failed, perhaps sizes, etc)
17:08:47 <nirik> long term:
17:09:03 <nirik> we talked a while back about adding some gating to rawhide... we should discuss that more and come up with a plan.
17:09:40 <nirik> ie, detect problems and untag packages or do other things to make things like broken deps not land unless the maintainer is sure.
17:09:44 <dgilmore> short term id like to make and publish a tree of the lives/appliances and send a report on them
17:10:00 <nirik> we do have the dashboard thing threebean made.
17:10:06 <nirik> we could possibly improve on that too.
17:10:32 <dgilmore> some of the data is things i want in the composedb
17:10:33 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/releng-dash/
17:10:39 <dgilmore> which is a very large project
17:10:47 <nirik> yes.
17:11:20 <dgilmore> the gating of packages to rawhide could be doable with integration into automated qa
17:11:42 <dgilmore> it could break doing chainbuilds
17:12:07 <nirik> yeah, or we could add some tags...
17:12:12 <dgilmore> maybe we need something that says we are doing a chainbuild
17:12:15 <nirik> the buildroot doesn't have to be the same as the final tag
17:12:29 <tflink> if anyone comes in here looking for the qadevel meeting, we've moved to #fedora-blocker-review
17:12:40 <dgilmore> so they can get it to be built against and gated to be pushed pending some kind of check on teh set of packages
17:12:50 <dgilmore> tflink: okay
17:12:55 <nirik> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meetbot/meetbot/meetbot/teams/discussion_of_kojirawhide_automated_testing_plans/discussion_of_kojirawhide_automated_testing_plans.2013-07-01-17.05.html
17:13:05 <nirik> ^ former discussion a while back on this.
17:13:42 <nirik> anyhow, I have no concrete proposal, but if we could all do some thinking on it and come up with a plan to present fesco that would be great.
17:13:46 <nirik> I think we can make it better. ;)
17:14:11 <dgilmore> nirik: im sure we can
17:14:42 <nirik> I'd like to keep improving rawhide, as I expect we will see a influx of rawhide users in the next months.
17:14:53 <dgilmore> ive been contemplating making full trees for rawhide
17:15:07 <dgilmore> so that the products can get early testing
17:15:29 <nirik> sure, although what those will be exactly is still not clear
17:15:36 <dgilmore> right
17:16:18 <dgilmore> we are likely going to have to produce things that the products may not really want to deliver what they do want
17:16:34 <dgilmore> Cloud for instance will need an install tree to make cloud images from
17:16:43 <dgilmore> even though they likely only want the images
17:17:11 <dgilmore> i think making what we will have to do will help them to shape what they want
17:17:24 <dgilmore> anyways its food for thought
17:17:29 <dgilmore> anything else?
17:18:29 <nirik> nope, just wanted to bring that up and ask people to think about it
17:18:34 <dgilmore> #topic todo list
17:18:50 <dgilmore> so one thing that some of the above leads onto is a todo list
17:19:04 <dgilmore> need to document all the things needing worked on
17:19:26 <dgilmore> and have a list of easyfix items so people can jump in and get involved in helping
17:20:03 <dgilmore> the easiest way for people to get involved in releng is in development of tooling, composedb etc
17:20:36 <nirik> yep.
17:20:38 <dgilmore> i think the best way is likely tickets in trac, can anyone think of a better way?
17:20:41 <nirik> trac tickets?
17:21:23 <dgilmore> #info please file tickets in trac for things that need doing
17:21:29 <abadger1999> dgilmore: Speaking of easyfix, there's an infra ticket that is rel-eng related to throw in the easyfix queue if you don't have work done on it already.
17:21:36 <abadger1999> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3358
17:21:46 <abadger1999> migrate the file upload hash algorithm from md5 to sha256
17:21:57 <dgilmore> abadger1999: yeah, i have some patches for it
17:22:07 <dgilmore> its not totoally easyfix
17:22:11 <dgilmore> some of it is
17:22:19 <abadger1999> Yeah.
17:22:39 <dgilmore> but we will need to go though the history and hardlink everything from their md5sum to sha256sum
17:22:45 <abadger1999> If you were to get those patches onto the ticket tracker, we could get people working on the remaining pieces.
17:22:50 <abadger1999> Yep.
17:24:33 <dgilmore> :) it needs doing
17:25:54 <dgilmore> #topic open floor
17:26:04 <janeznemanic> hi, I would like to join rel-eng team as I said a few days ago and I'm happy to work with python, so how do I get started
17:26:06 <dgilmore> does anyone have anything they want to bring up?
17:26:17 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: welcome
17:26:42 <janeznemanic> with small steps of course
17:26:51 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: right now the best way is to look at trac and find tickets that interest you and work to resolve them
17:27:33 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: we are trying to do better at enabling people to get involved
17:27:40 <janeznemanic> ok but what about access to machines etc
17:27:55 <dgilmore> so please have patience as we add tickets that can be easily fixed etc
17:28:33 <dgilmore> just reminded me of something i wanted to bring up
17:28:49 <dgilmore> #topic places for releng work
17:29:32 <dgilmore> releng owns fedpkg, rpkg, koji, fedora-packager, dist-git etc
17:29:49 <dgilmore> some of these have not had much work in awhile
17:30:11 <dgilmore> i know nirik said over the weekend that we need to look at upgrading gitolite
17:30:19 * nirik nods.
17:30:45 <dgilmore> need to get together a comprehensive list of all the bits we need to maintain
17:31:00 <dgilmore> that will give us more things for people to work on
17:31:14 <dgilmore> I know i need to review a bunch of patches to rpkg
17:31:20 <dgilmore> and some for fedpkg
17:31:59 <janeznemanic> is the code for these apps on github
17:32:08 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: no
17:32:13 <janeznemanic> ok
17:32:15 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: its all in fedorahosted
17:32:39 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: I personally refuse to use github so they wont be moved there
17:32:50 <janeznemanic> no problem
17:33:23 <dgilmore> its another area for documentation and people to work on
17:33:50 <janeznemanic> I'm not that good at English so sorry
17:34:08 <dgilmore> there is a lot of ares people can contribute to releng without doing composes, signing packages  and pushing updates
17:34:16 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: thats okay
17:34:35 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: what is your native language?
17:34:43 <janeznemanic> Slovene
17:34:59 <dgilmore> okay, no one i know anything of
17:35:17 <dgilmore> okay I think thats it from me for today
17:35:23 <dgilmore> #topic open floor again
17:35:35 <dgilmore> does anyone else have anything or is it a wrap?
17:36:02 <janeznemanic> what about access for newbies to relevant systems
17:36:35 <masta> I'm chipping away at the mkbranch script
17:36:45 <masta> that looks to be in gitolite
17:36:56 <janeznemanic> I'm part of infra team but that's probably not enough
17:37:04 <masta> probably need to better understand what you mean by upgrade gitolite
17:37:43 <janeznemanic> expect for apps
17:37:47 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: there really is no access needed
17:37:58 <janeznemanic> ok
17:38:26 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: the releng only systems are kinda sensitive, and everything can be developed and tested outside of them
17:38:31 <masta> janeznemanic: I'll shoot you a link to the git of our scripts, so you can see them and start digesting the info
17:38:37 <nirik> upstream is at v3.5.3.1... fedora and epel packages are at: 2.3.1. We may not be able to update epel, but first step would be working with maintainer to get packages updated. Then we need to see what to adjust in our setup for v3 (it's a lot different)
17:39:06 <janeznemanic> masta:that's great
17:39:19 <dgilmore> I know Jesse work with upstream a lot as we developed distgit
17:39:28 <dgilmore> but we have left it laregly stagnant since
17:40:03 <nirik> yep.
17:40:13 <nirik> upstream was very very helpful and great to work with
17:40:18 <dgilmore> yes they were
17:41:12 <dgilmore> janeznemanic: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/releng is the releng git repo
17:41:18 <masta> cool, I just google gitolite, look nice...
17:41:49 <janeznemanic> dgilmore:thank you
17:41:53 <masta> ok so I'll start wrapping my head around the gitolite upgrade...
17:42:03 <nirik> oh, side note: gitolite work might coordinate with pkgdb2 work...
17:42:09 <nirik> or I guess it could just be later.
17:42:10 <masta> nod
17:42:54 <masta> nirik: I'll sync-up with you  later to fully fleshout my understanding of problem statement, and impact statements on this regard.... gitolite
17:43:08 <nirik> cool.
17:43:11 <dgilmore> nirik: pkgdb2 is wanted to be deployed sooner rather than later correct?
17:43:26 <abadger1999> dgilmore: correct.
17:43:27 <nirik> dgilmore: yeah... it's close to ready. just needs some deps to be finished up.
17:43:34 <dgilmore> cool
17:43:37 <abadger1999> I think that pingou considers the server code pretty much finished.
17:43:57 <abadger1999> But we need to get client code running -- it uses openid for auth and that's something we don't support clientside yet.
17:44:09 <dgilmore> okay
17:44:18 * abadger1999 has some sample code in a sample branch but it needs a lot of cleanup to be considered a stable API)
17:44:21 <dgilmore> and after the weekend auth is kinda critical to work
17:44:30 <abadger1999> yeah
17:44:34 <nirik> http://209.132.184.188/
17:45:03 <tyll_> The is a gitolite3 packge it EPEL btw
17:45:09 <tyll_> *in
17:45:36 <nirik> oh, so there is. ;) thanks for noting that tyll_
17:46:35 <masta> cool
17:46:52 <masta> was just noticing there was not a package installed on the server
17:47:07 <dgilmore> tyll_: since you are here now anything you want to bring up before we finish?
17:47:36 <tyll_> dgilmore: no, thank you
17:48:11 <dgilmore> okay cool,
17:48:27 <dgilmore> well if nothing else ill close the meetingin 10
17:48:44 <dgilmore> #endmeeting