14:59:28 <sgallagh> #startmeeting Server Working Group Weekly Meeting (2014-05-20)
14:59:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 20 14:59:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:59:34 <sgallagh> #chair sgallagh mizmo nirik davidstrauss stefw adamw simo tuanta mitr
14:59:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw davidstrauss mitr mizmo nirik sgallagh simo stefw tuanta
14:59:37 <sgallagh> #topic roll call
14:59:44 <nirik> morning.
14:59:48 <mizmo> .hellomynameis duffy
14:59:50 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
14:59:53 * nirik is around, but still trying to catch up on emails, etc...
14:59:57 <mitr> Hello
15:00:01 <stefw> o/
15:01:15 <simo> \0/
15:02:44 <danofsatx-work> here
15:02:54 * sgallagh looks for adamw and tuanta
15:03:50 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Are you around? We're going to need to discuss logistics of release engineering
15:03:57 <sgallagh> I'd prefer not leaving you out of that :)
15:04:33 <sgallagh> Ok, we have enough people to begin.
15:05:00 <sgallagh> #topic Primary Work Projects for Fedora Server 21
15:05:40 <sgallagh> In the email I sent to the list earlier, I identified three major work projects that we need to complete ahead of the July 22nd Feature Freeze
15:05:59 <sgallagh> #info Work Project: Release Engineering
15:06:12 <sgallagh> #info Work Project: Branding / Project Identity
15:06:23 <sgallagh> #info Work Project: Server Roles
15:06:42 <sgallagh> These are the things we absolutely need to have in order to ship.
15:06:54 * danofsatx-work didn't see the email
15:07:15 <sgallagh> Arguably, Branding / Project Identity doesn't need to be ready for July 22nd, but I think the other two may depend on at least having a comprehensive vision in place here.
15:07:52 <sgallagh> stefw: I didn't include Cockpit on the list, as FESCo's ruling was that it could land after the freeze (although that will mean less testing time)
15:08:08 <stefw> understood
15:08:32 <sgallagh> First: have I missed any urgent work projects?
15:08:35 <mizmo> for branding / identity, ryan sent a list of q's to the list in like, nov or dec that we never put together answers for
15:08:42 <mizmo> that we kind of need now since we're diving into the logos / branding stuff
15:08:58 <sgallagh> mizmo: Yeah, we dropped the ball on that one.
15:09:00 <mizmo> i can link to the cloud wg's answers which might be good to see the q's and also a good format for answering them
15:09:11 <sgallagh> Please do
15:09:20 <mizmo> sec...
15:09:22 <sgallagh> #topic Work Project: Branding / Project Identity
15:09:28 <sgallagh> (might as well dive into this one first)
15:09:42 <mizmo> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3
15:10:22 <sgallagh> As I noted in the email, I'd like to have shepherds for each of these work projects. I was hoping to beg mizmo and tuanta (as designer and ambassador, respectively) drive this one.
15:11:00 <mizmo> should we just go thru the q's now?
15:11:47 <sgallagh> I'm fine with that. Any objections?
15:11:54 <nirik> sounds fine.
15:12:01 <mizmo> (1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence?
15:12:10 <mizmo> for cloud they said "Fedora Cloud provides a customizable base image and tools for developing
15:12:10 <mizmo> scale out applications on public and private clouds, as well as a small number of images pre-configured for specific uses."
15:12:16 <sgallagh> #info Q: (1) What problem does your product solve, in one sentence?
15:12:17 <mizmo> this is sort of the 'elevator pitch' for Fedora Server if you will
15:12:52 <mizmo> anyone? bueller? bueller?
15:12:53 <sgallagh> "Fedora Server simplifies the setup and deployment of infrastructure servers"
15:13:04 <sgallagh> </strawman>
15:13:34 <mizmo> does it simplify, or does it provide a simple to set up platform for deploying infra servers?
15:13:46 <mizmo> eg to what extent do we provide the infra bits vs provide tools for getting them
15:13:59 <sgallagh> mizmo: Well, both
15:14:10 <nirik> Fedora server provides easy to install, upgrade and manage infrastructure server roles?
15:14:17 <nirik> hum, thats not great.
15:14:24 <mizmo> the lady in the elevator doesnt know what a server role is
15:14:36 <nirik> yeah
15:14:36 <simo> Fedora Server provides a set of tools focus on infrastructure services simplifying their installation and management
15:14:43 <simo> *focused
15:14:57 <danofsatx-work> I like simo's
15:15:14 <sgallagh> "Fedora server provides a set of tools to simplify the installation and management of network infrastructure services" (Just wordsmithing simo's)
15:15:21 <mizmo> what im struggling with, with these straw men - are we tools, and not the actual server? are we the actual server and provide tools too? are we the actual server and the infrastructure bits on top and tools on top
15:15:25 <simo> sgallagh: +1
15:15:40 <sgallagh> mizmo: the latter
15:15:42 <mizmo> okay Fedora server provides tools, but that doesn't tell me what it is
15:15:44 <mizmo> is it a toolbox?
15:15:47 <simo> mizmo: is a distribution with customized tools that ...
15:16:08 <simo> s/distribution/Operating System/
15:16:16 <mizmo> was about to type that
15:16:25 <mizmo> s/Operating System/Operating System for servers ?
15:16:51 <sgallagh> "Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides a set of customized tools to simplify the installation and management of network infrastructure services"
15:17:14 <mizmo> maybe network-based infrastructure services?
15:17:18 <mizmo> just network infrastructure makes me think of routers
15:17:19 <stefw> :: /a set of /d
15:17:41 <stefw> s/to simplify/for/
15:18:27 <mitr> s/that provides a set of customized tools to/that makes it simple to/ + grammar changes?
15:18:37 <simo> I would remove 'network'
15:18:42 <sgallagh> "Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides customized tools for the installation and management of infrastructure services"
15:18:50 <simo> I think it is clear that these days everything is networked anyway
15:18:51 <mizmo> Strawman #43  "Fedora Server is a server operating system that makes it simple to install and manage network-based infrastructure servers."
15:18:53 <sgallagh> mitr: No, we want to call out that there are additional tools
15:19:12 <sgallagh> At least, I think so
15:19:22 <sgallagh> Those tools are a big part of our value
15:19:27 <mizmo> Strawman #44  "Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides customized tools for the installation and management of network-based infrastructure servers."
15:19:28 <simo> I do not like 'customized'
15:19:37 <mizmo> rich set of tools?
15:19:41 <sgallagh> s/customized/enhanced/
15:19:42 <mizmo> task-oriented tools?
15:19:48 <mizmo> ultra mega tools?
15:19:48 <simo> it is true we are building them, but not sure we should call out they are always "our own private thing"
15:20:02 <mizmo> what do we want to say about the tools
15:20:08 <mizmo> are they standardized?
15:20:10 <sgallagh> simo: I don't plan on making them Fedora-exclusive.
15:20:23 <mizmo> innovative?
15:20:24 <sgallagh> They should theoretically work on any system running systemd and firewalld IMHO
15:20:28 <mizmo> unqiue?
15:20:37 <sgallagh> unique == NIH == bad
15:20:40 <mizmo> integrated with linux?
15:20:46 <simo> 'specialized' ?
15:20:57 <sgallagh> "Specialized" works
15:21:00 <mizmo> working on any system running systemd/firewalld makes me think 'integrated'
15:21:05 <mizmo> specialized makes me think specific to fedora
15:21:36 <mizmo> "standardized" makes me think generally relevant and not Fedora specific
15:21:52 <mizmo> altho i think it also implies a level of standardization maybe that doesnt exist yet
15:21:57 <sgallagh> I don't know that we can claim standardized without other distros :)
15:22:26 <mizmo> "generalized" / "general" doesn't imply standardization but implies not Fedora specific
15:22:58 <sgallagh> I'm beginning to think we should drop the adjective entirely
15:23:02 <danofsatx-work> but it doesn't convey much in the impression of "goodiness"
15:23:23 <mitr> “improved” then?  There’s not hing that special about them except that they are better?  Or “new and better than the non-existent previous ones” is perhaps what we mean
15:23:40 <danofsatx-work> generalized sounds too much like generic, and that's what we don't want to be
15:23:43 <mizmo> Strawman #45  "Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides a new set of integrated tools for the installation and management of network-based infrastructure servers."
15:24:01 <simo> wfm
15:24:14 <sgallagh> mizmo: +1 to #45
15:24:31 <sgallagh> Ah, one correction
15:24:40 <sgallagh> s/infrastructure servers/infrastructure services/
15:24:48 <mizmo> whoopsie, fixed
15:24:51 * nirik likes that one.
15:24:58 <mitr> nice
15:25:03 <mizmo> Strawman #46 "Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides a new set of integrated tools for the installation and management of network-based infrastructure services."
15:25:09 <mizmo> okay so next we got
15:25:17 <mizmo> (2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence?
15:25:22 <mizmo> here's how cloud wg answered:
15:25:28 <mizmo> "Developers creating scale out applications on top of public and private
15:25:28 <mizmo> clouds."
15:25:29 <sgallagh> #info A: (1) Fedora Server is a server operating system that provides a new set of integrated tools for the installation and management of network-based infrastructure services.
15:26:03 <mizmo> here's our personas https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Personas
15:26:17 <sgallagh> "System administrators building a stable environment to support their users and applications"
15:26:21 <mizmo> we have a mix of cto, devops, sysadmins, app devs, and meta (server role creator)
15:27:14 <mizmo> that honestly works for me
15:27:21 <danofsatx-work> target: the people that run the network.  !target: the people that use the network.
15:27:30 <nirik> sgallagh: +1
15:27:31 <mizmo> how about
15:27:32 <stefw> sgallagh, +1
15:27:51 <mizmo> Strawman #50: " "System administrators building and maintaining a stable environment in support of users and applications"
15:28:19 <sgallagh> I could go either way on the phrasing.
15:28:29 <nirik> stable might be a bit overloaded there...
15:28:53 <nirik> I mean people could read more into that than we intend.
15:29:08 <sgallagh> nirik: stable environment != stable OS
15:29:17 <mizmo> i removed "their" bc the possessive introduced that maybe the admins own the apps or the users own the apps
15:29:24 <nirik> sure...
15:29:30 <sgallagh> Or the users own the admins :)
15:29:47 <mizmo> an environment that is stable?
15:29:47 <mizmo> hehe
15:29:49 * danofsatx-work works for coffee, and beer
15:30:07 <mizmo> functional?
15:30:15 <simo> stable
15:30:18 <mizmo> non-baby-eating
15:30:19 <mizmo> okay
15:30:25 <mitr> both of the above are fine with me
15:30:32 <nirik> "System administrators building and maintaining a rich set of server applications in support of users" ?
15:30:43 <simo> no
15:30:47 <sgallagh> -1
15:30:58 <mizmo> i dont know that the infrastructure is viewed as apps tho
15:31:01 <sgallagh> That implies a developer
15:31:01 <nirik> ok.
15:31:18 <mizmo> lets go with strawman #50
15:31:22 <mizmo> and move on :)
15:31:28 <sgallagh> +1
15:31:29 <mizmo> (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target
15:31:30 <nirik> ok
15:31:30 <mizmo> audience you are after.
15:31:32 <sgallagh> (for 50)
15:31:54 <sgallagh> #info Q: (2) Who is the target audience for your product, in one sentence?
15:32:00 <mizmo> cloud went with, various popular AMIs (CentOs, Ubuntu, Amazon), BitNami, PaaS (Heroku, Engine Yard, OpenShift), Docker, Windows Azure
15:32:06 <sgallagh> #info A: (2) System administrators building and maintaining a stable environment in support of users and applications
15:32:18 <sgallagh> #info Q: (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target
15:32:47 <mizmo> at least 5 means if there are more we can list more
15:32:49 <danofsatx-work> RHEL, Windows Server
15:32:54 <sgallagh> RHEL, CentOS, Scientific Linux, Oracle Enterprise Linux, Windows Server
15:33:09 <sgallagh> SUSE
15:33:10 <simo> SLES
15:33:22 <simo> Ubuntu LTS ?
15:33:22 <mizmo> is there an ububu one
15:33:30 <sgallagh> AIX? (Successfully...?)
15:33:39 <mitr> I'd count RHEL+clones as ~1 item :)
15:33:41 <danofsatx-work> yes, there is an Ubuntu Server distro
15:33:56 <sgallagh> Hard to define "successfully" though
15:33:58 <simo> sgallagh: if you want to list vintage I can give you a crpload of names :)
15:34:02 <sgallagh> Ubuntu Server doesn't have much market penetration
15:34:25 <mizmo> competitors dont have to be good
15:34:27 <mizmo> :)
15:34:32 <danofsatx-work> no, it doesn't. HPUX and Solaris have more market share then Canonical, at least in the server world
15:34:38 <sgallagh> mizmo: The question specifically asks "successfully"
15:34:53 <mizmo> ohh thats true
15:34:53 <mizmo> okay
15:35:05 <danofsatx-work> successfully, IMO, is RHEL, Windows Server, and Oracle
15:35:07 <mizmo> well listing unsuccsesful is okay in terms of looking at what not to do :)
15:35:19 <sgallagh> I'd go with RHEL+clones, Windows Server, SLES, HPUX, Solaris, AIX
15:35:44 <mizmo> wfm
15:35:58 <mizmo> oh and remember this is target the same audience
15:36:00 <mizmo> so seriously
15:36:00 <mitr> I’ll just say it, IMHO Windows should be definitely listed first
15:36:03 <mizmo> this doesn't have to be servers
15:36:06 <danofsatx-work> I'd stay away from AIX -it requires IBM hardware
15:36:10 <mizmo> it can be like, bawls or thinkgeek.com or something
15:36:13 <simo> do you want to add Mac OS Server ? for the luls ?
15:36:16 <mizmo> or das keyboard lol
15:36:20 <mizmo> (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem.
15:36:26 <mizmo> ^^ i think you guys are answering this now actually
15:36:36 <mizmo> lulz are good
15:36:38 <mitr> simo: their _integration_ is actually rather impressive
15:36:46 <sgallagh> #info A: (3) Windows Server, RHEL+clones, SLES, HPUX, Solaris, AIX
15:36:52 <simo> mitr: I agree, the quality though ...
15:37:25 <sgallagh> mizmo: I think (4) is the same question, given our defined target audience
15:37:30 <mizmo> sgallagh, it's not
15:37:44 <mizmo> one is asking, what do these people like that reaches them well
15:37:46 <mitr> RHEL+clones hasn’t been really doing this for example
15:37:50 <mizmo> the other is asking, what products are trying to do the same thing
15:38:01 <mizmo> eg
15:38:15 <sgallagh> So appliances for example?
15:38:34 <mitr> This just might be the right place to list OS X server
15:38:37 <sgallagh> #info Q: (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem
15:38:52 <mizmo> if you're marekting a deodorant for teenage girls, the answer to #3 might be, god i dont know anymore, maybe justin bieber or whatever. and #4 would be like, secret or teen spirit
15:39:14 <mizmo> yeh OS X server is a good one for #5
15:39:33 <mizmo> because i think they try to provide more tooling / workflow than a bucket of legos
15:40:08 <sgallagh> Synology DiskStation Manager?
15:40:31 <mizmo> is that for #3 or #4
15:40:50 <sgallagh> Hard to say :)
15:40:57 <sgallagh> I still can't really perceive the difference.
15:41:26 <sgallagh> DSM focuses mostly on infrastructure file-server stuff, but it can also host a Database
15:41:28 <mizmo> #3 is more about what the target audience likes, whether or not it's a direct competitor.
15:41:29 <danofsatx-work> Q4 who is doing it; Q5 who wants to do it
15:41:33 <mizmo> #4 is basically direct competitors
15:41:35 <mizmo> danofsatx-work, no
15:41:41 <nirik> does webmin/cpanel fit in here? or thats too isolated a level?
15:42:00 <sgallagh> mizmo: Then I guess closer to 3, except that it could directly compete with a fileserver role.
15:42:37 <mizmo> is synology diskstation manager a really popular / well-liked product for sysadmins?
15:43:00 <sgallagh> Pretty popular in the SOHO crowd
15:43:05 <mizmo> what is SOHO
15:43:12 <sgallagh> Small-office/home-office
15:43:13 <mizmo> (guessing not south of houston)
15:43:14 <mizmo> okay
15:43:27 <simo> mizmo: not the place in NYc :)
15:43:31 <mitr> mizmo: #4 isn’t limited to the same target audience
15:43:42 <mitr> ….. as written at least
15:43:44 <mizmo> mitr, that's right, it could solve the same problem for a different person
15:43:58 * sgallagh feels like we keep arguing about the meaning of "the"
15:44:35 <sgallagh> Let me ask a different question: do we need to answer these questions exactly as written, or is the discussion around the questions ultimately more valuable?
15:44:38 <mizmo> the point of the exercise is to help the design team evaluate / research brands that appeal to the target audience and also how products that do the same thing position themselves
15:45:10 <mizmo> so i mean... if there's a carbonated beverage that people in our target audience really really like, that is something worth looking at for 3
15:45:35 <mitr> sgallagh: I wouldn’t bet on the design team spending much time analyzing these meeting minutes.  There will be information loss, and the better we fit what we mean into those few sentences, the less information loss there will be.
15:45:46 <sgallagh> mizmo: At that point, I think this is too technical a group to answer (3) the way that the design team really wants
15:45:47 <mizmo> +1 mitr
15:45:50 <danofsatx-work> How granular do we want to be? theoretically, Windows Home Server fits into Q4
15:45:57 <mizmo> sgallagh, but it's not, how does a designer know what sysadmins like
15:46:11 <sgallagh> mizmo: Better to ask sysadmins than mostly engineers :)
15:46:40 <mizmo> i think for #4 this would be an appropriate list:
15:46:45 <mizmo> "Successful: "RHEL+clones, Windows Server, SLES, HPUX, Solaris, AIX""
15:46:56 <sgallagh> ok
15:46:56 <mizmo> "Not as successful: OS X Server, Ubuntu Server"
15:47:00 <mizmo> and we can talk more about #3
15:47:02 <mizmo> does that work?
15:47:08 <sgallagh> Alright, let me amend the minutes.
15:47:09 <sgallagh> #undo
15:47:09 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by sgallagh at 15:38:37 : Q: (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem
15:47:12 <sgallagh> #undo
15:47:12 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by sgallagh at 15:36:46 : A: (3) Windows Server, RHEL+clones, SLES, HPUX, Solaris, AIX
15:47:19 <sgallagh> #undo
15:47:20 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by sgallagh at 15:32:18 : Q: (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target
15:47:29 <sgallagh> #info Q: (4) List at least 5 products that try to solve the same problem
15:47:43 <sgallagh> #info A: (4) Successful: "RHEL+clones, Windows Server, SLES, HPUX, Solaris, AIX"
15:47:52 <sgallagh> #info A: (4) Not as successful: OS X Server, Ubuntu Server
15:48:03 <sgallagh> #info Q: (3) List at least 5 products that successfully target the same target
15:48:12 <sgallagh> (out of order, but that's okay since I've been numbering them)
15:48:17 <mizmo> okay
15:48:19 <mizmo> for #3
15:48:30 <mizmo> we have synology diskstation manager as a suggestion
15:48:46 <sgallagh> PuTTY
15:48:47 <mizmo> i would suggest, potentially, o'rielly publishing - their books are pretty well respected by sysadmins no?
15:48:53 <sgallagh> mizmo: YES
15:49:11 <mizmo> where do sysadmins get their news from these days? i am guessing not slashdot anymore
15:49:20 <sgallagh> Similarly: StackExchange
15:49:22 <danofsatx-work> arstechnica
15:49:23 <simo> I think we are spending a little bit too much time on these q.s to be honest
15:49:57 <mizmo> maybe - usenix as a brand they trust / respect?
15:50:13 <sgallagh> LISA?
15:50:16 <mitr> simo: when we end up listing our favorite websites, yes
15:50:32 <sgallagh> Ah right, LISA is a usenix conference
15:50:48 <sgallagh> mizmo: Do you have enough to work with there?
15:50:55 <mizmo> need one more
15:51:00 <mizmo> and then we're done
15:51:57 <mizmo> maybe a security-related product?
15:52:12 <mizmo> or  a gadget of some sort
15:52:14 <sgallagh> Cisco?
15:52:18 <sgallagh> (routers)
15:52:19 <nirik> yubikey?
15:52:20 <nirik> :)
15:52:21 <mizmo> yeh that works
15:52:34 <mizmo> okay the list i have for #3 is
15:52:40 <sgallagh> mizmo: Mind summarizing in an info tag?
15:53:03 <mizmo> #info (3) A: USENIX/ LISA, O'Reilly books, StackExchange, ArsTechnica, Cisco
15:53:28 <mizmo> thanks guys
15:53:32 <sgallagh> Ok, so that's the last of the questions, yes?
15:53:34 <mizmo> yeppers
15:53:45 <sgallagh> And we're five minutes from the top of the hour.
15:53:50 <mizmo> let me know if anybody has any thoughts abut the brand for server in general
15:54:35 <sgallagh> #topic Work Project: Server Roles
15:54:56 <sgallagh> As noted in the email, I'm going to be driving this one. I wouldn't mind a cohort though.
15:55:32 <sgallagh> (Basically just to help make sure we maintain focus0
15:56:07 <sgallagh> #info sgallagh to shepherd the Server Role effort
15:56:17 <sgallagh> #topic Work Project: Release Engineering
15:56:52 <sgallagh> nirik: Can you please act as our resident nag on making sure we have our ducks in order for release engineering?
15:57:17 <nirik> sgallagh: I can try and do so yeah. We decided already what products we want right? (netinstall and a standalone image)
15:57:58 <sgallagh> Yeah, though last I checked we hadn't settled firmly on what the netinstall was
15:58:17 <nirik> ok. I can look back thru emails for that...
15:58:20 <sgallagh> thanks
15:58:38 <sgallagh> #info nirik to shepherd the Release Engineering effort
15:58:43 <sgallagh> #topic Open Floor
15:59:04 <nirik> we also wanted to do some anaconda customization/spoke? what was the status on that?
15:59:06 <sgallagh> I know we're technically out of time, but does anyone have any business for Open Floor?
15:59:36 <sgallagh> nirik: I've been looking into it, but I think it may not be the right approach for F21
15:59:45 <nirik> ok. fair enough.
15:59:56 <sgallagh> I've got some ideas I've been talking about with the systemd folks on how to do firstboot work for setting up the roles.
16:00:25 <sgallagh> We always planned that role setup would be kickstart-only for F21, so that's probably fine.
16:00:39 <sgallagh> So I think we can defer a new spoke until F22
16:01:40 <sgallagh> Any other topics?
16:01:49 * nirik has nothing
16:01:51 <sgallagh> If not, I'll close the meeting in two minutes
16:02:02 * simo has nothing
16:02:07 <simo> and I have to go
16:02:11 <simo> bb
16:02:18 <mizmo> i have a minor thing
16:02:29 <mizmo> this meeting takes a 2 hour slot on the calendar, can it be changed to 1?
16:03:06 <danofsatx-work> with deadlines approaching, we may need 2 hours soon
16:03:17 <danofsatx-work> I say keep the slot until GA
16:03:19 <mizmo> in my tz it's lunch time and i can't skip it
16:03:26 <mizmo> i'm in the office at 7 am, going 6 horus without eating is hard
16:03:41 <mizmo> so i will basically never be able to make it
16:03:44 * danofsatx-work snacks during the meetings ;)
16:03:56 <sgallagh> I scheduled the time slot to ensure that we didn't have conflicts if we ran over
16:04:44 <sgallagh> Does having it scheduled for extra time cause problems?
16:05:16 <mizmo> for me it does, but i guess its not that big a deal. i just cannot do an extra horu then, so if theres an expectation it'd be better to move the meeting back
16:06:09 <sgallagh> mizmo: For now, I'm just going to leave it blocked out with the expectation that we probably won't use it
16:06:38 <sgallagh> Anyway, go have lunch. (Me too)
16:06:44 <mizmo> yep enjoy
16:06:49 <sgallagh> Thanks everyone for participating.
16:07:33 <sgallagh> #endmeeting