19:04:18 <roshi> #startmeeting
19:04:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 11 19:04:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is roshi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:23 <roshi> #meetingname Cloud WG
19:04:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'cloud_wg'
19:04:27 <roshi> #topic Roll Call
19:04:32 <roshi> .hello roshi
19:04:33 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
19:04:37 <dustymabe> .hellomynameis dustymabe
19:04:38 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dusty@dustymabe.com>
19:04:39 <jzb> .hellomynameis jzb
19:04:41 <zodbot> jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' <jzb@redhat.com>
19:04:50 <oddshocks> .hellomynameis oddshocks
19:04:51 <zodbot> oddshocks: oddshocks 'David Gay' <dgay@redhat.com>
19:05:26 <roshi> it's a decent turnout :)
19:05:40 <roshi> #topic previous meeting followup
19:05:50 <roshi> dustymabe will create a track ticket about systemd-networkd
19:05:55 <rtnpro> .hello rtnpro
19:05:56 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
19:06:13 <dustymabe> roshi: going to do that now
19:06:16 <roshi> sgtm
19:06:19 <dustymabe> will post link in here
19:06:25 <roshi> that's the only action item we had from last meeting
19:06:57 <roshi> thanks dustymabe :)
19:07:03 <mmcgrath> ..hello mmcgrath
19:07:11 <mmcgrath> .hello mmcgrath
19:07:12 <mmcgrath> sorry :)
19:07:12 <zodbot> mmcgrath: mmcgrath 'Mike McGrath' <imlinux+fedora@gmail.com>
19:07:22 <roshi> np :) we're easy to get along with
19:07:28 * oddshocks learns you can just use .hello
19:07:44 <roshi> zodbot and meetbot have some cool stuff
19:07:50 <roshi> .moar stuff oddshocks
19:07:50 <zodbot> here oddshocks, have some more stuff
19:07:52 <mattdm> .hello
19:07:54 <zodbot> mattdm: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
19:08:02 <mattdm> hmmm. :)
19:08:05 <roshi> welcome mattdm :)
19:08:08 <mattdm> .hello mattdm
19:08:09 <zodbot> mattdm: mattdm 'Matthew Miller' <mattdm@mattdm.org>
19:08:22 <oddshocks> mattdm: I had thought you had to type out "hellomynameis"
19:08:29 <roshi> ready to move onto the pending agenda items?
19:08:33 * oddshocks nods
19:08:41 <jzb> oddshocks: only if there's a name conflict
19:08:51 <roshi> #topic Maintaining docker images
19:08:54 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/97
19:09:16 <roshi> it would for sure be good to get this tested
19:09:34 <roshi> I hadn't looked at them at all since they aren't blocking and we had enough to test during that last run
19:10:38 <jzb> roshi: yes, yes it would
19:10:43 <roshi> we oughta be able to automate that check though
19:10:44 <jzb> roshi: so - I wanted to discuss this
19:10:49 <roshi> perhaps tunir?
19:11:03 <jzb> right now the docker image is "owned" by the base working group?
19:11:11 <roshi> I was just explaining why *I* didn't test it :P
19:11:23 <jzb> I think there's some confusion over who needs to "own" it
19:11:29 <roshi> aiui, yeah
19:11:29 <jzb> and we all dropped the ball for the alpha
19:11:40 <jzb> it's also not represented on any of the release pages.
19:11:47 <jzb> (nor release announcement)
19:12:14 <jzb> so - does anybody object to cloud "owning" testing and promoting the base image?
19:12:26 <jzb> if not, we add it to our tasks and need to make sure it's being produced.
19:12:29 <jzb> properly.
19:12:55 * jzb looks around
19:12:59 <roshi> the last part is the sticking point for me taking point on it
19:13:07 <mattdm> I don't object, but I we should maybe check with the Base people who said they want to own it?
19:13:12 <roshi> because I only have a passing knowledge of docker
19:13:29 <roshi> I figured jzb was wanting to get ducks in a row to take to them
19:13:29 <jzb> mattdm: yeah, but that's a bridge to burn once we decide we want to do it.
19:13:32 <roshi> not just take it
19:13:33 <jzb> roshi: +1
19:13:53 <jzb> mattdm: otherwise we go and say "why didn't this happen?" :-)
19:14:11 <dustymabe> I don't object to cloud owning the docker image
19:14:21 <mattdm> jzb +1
19:14:26 <dustymabe> I agree it does need some love
19:14:33 <jzb> dustymabe: yep
19:14:39 <jzb> OK
19:14:49 <jzb> #action jzb get with base working group on docker image.
19:15:11 <jzb> roshi: EOF for me.
19:16:13 <roshi> sounds good to me
19:16:18 <roshi> you going to update the ticket?
19:16:40 <roshi> #topic Dockerfile Husbandry
19:16:46 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/84
19:16:47 <jzb> roshi: done
19:17:04 <roshi> sweet
19:17:05 * roshi reads
19:17:44 <roshi> cool, that's good to have done :)
19:18:04 <roshi> #topic Checksums
19:18:10 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/93
19:18:33 <roshi> iirc, kushal was going to chase this one down with the systemd folks
19:20:05 <mattdm> yes, I think he's literally off at a conference doing that right now
19:20:23 <roshi> :D
19:20:29 <roshi> then we can move on
19:20:33 <jzb> oooh, right -yeah.
19:20:50 <roshi> #topic Atomic as a spin
19:20:53 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/96
19:21:13 <jzb> mattdm: you want to weigh in on this 1st?
19:21:31 <mattdm> sure
19:21:36 <roshi> +1
19:21:40 <mattdm> I definitely haven't _completely_ thought this through :)
19:21:56 <mattdm> Does everyone understand the basics of the possibilities I was suggesting?
19:22:01 <mattdm> Or should I explain myself better?
19:22:11 <roshi> I think B could use some explanation
19:22:27 <roshi> would that be a demotion of the Base image, or would we just equalize them?
19:22:46 <roshi> and we'd probably have to take this to fesco or someone to get it considered for blocker status
19:22:49 <mattdm> B would basically be a demotion of the base imge, yes.
19:22:50 <roshi> because right now, it's not
19:23:08 <mmcgrath> I don't fully understand the consequences (good or bad) at this point
19:23:32 <roshi> do we have any idea which of the two is used more by people in production?
19:23:44 <mattdm> Right now, almost certainly the base image.
19:23:53 <dustymabe> yeah atomic is brand new
19:23:58 <mattdm> But, we don't have good numbers at all.
19:24:12 <mattdm> Even worse than our ability to count anything else
19:24:20 <roshi> a fair point
19:24:20 <mattdm> since so many cloud instances won't check for updates
19:24:37 <mattdm> and so many others are going to be potentially thousands of instances behind one nat
19:24:51 <dustymabe> true
19:25:01 <roshi> is our infra even using it for anything?
19:25:08 <roshi> ooc
19:25:10 <dustymabe> roshi: it == ?
19:25:11 <mattdm> If it doesn't feel like we're ready to decide, then "C" might be the best for now.
19:25:24 <jzb> here's my thinking - if Atomic is a spin, it doesn't get as much love officially but it has more flexibility
19:25:24 <dustymabe> mattdm: my gut feeling is "c"
19:25:29 <roshi> +1 for C
19:25:49 <jzb> we have a second proposal from mmcgrath around doing 2-week sprint/releases
19:25:55 <mattdm> I'd _eventually_ like to have the cloud story be more straightforward -- less of an if-this-than-that situation.
19:26:08 <jzb> where we'd have a rapidly accelerated release cycle around the Atomic Host.
19:26:16 <jzb> I think that fits better with "spin"
19:26:25 <mmcgrath> and all I'm asking for there right now, is that every 2 weeks, whatever rawhide is at gets pushed to a mirror so we can link to it somehow on projectatomic.io
19:26:48 <mmcgrath> It gives us flexability on what we want to do WRT the stable releases.
19:26:50 <mattdm> mmcgrath and presumably that that thing is basically functional?
19:26:54 * roshi needs to read that thread closer
19:27:01 <dustymabe> jzb: I thought spin was a good option for atomic so it could get some "focused" attention and like you said flexibility
19:27:05 <mmcgrath> yes, though I know CI can't promise that today.
19:27:08 <dustymabe> did you see boyer's comments about spins though?
19:27:27 <jzb> my concern is if we have rawhide being targeted on PA something to point to PLUS the final release
19:27:43 <mattdm> Fundamentally, what *I* want is to have a simple, compelling elevator pitch when I'm talking about Fedora Cloud. Right now, I really have to have two separate ones.
19:27:45 <jzb> we are going to have a hell of a time explaining which to use, where to start, and fragment efforts a bit.
19:27:48 <mmcgrath> I don't think the PA site will link to final releases of atomic on Fedora
19:28:03 <mmcgrath> at least not on the basic "getting started" type pages.
19:28:07 * mattdm wonders where pennsylvania came into  it
19:28:16 <mmcgrath> ProjectAtomic.io :)
19:28:17 <jzb> mattdm: daaaamn
19:28:27 <mattdm> :)
19:28:28 <jzb> oh. I thought you were ... never mind.
19:28:32 <mmcgrath> #link http://www.projectatomic.io/
19:28:35 <mmcgrath> for the record
19:28:48 <roshi> is Atomic the Shining Path we ultimately want to walk down?
19:28:51 <jzb> mmcgrath: what we point to from PA is undetermined atm.
19:29:00 * roshi isn't against it or anything - just curious
19:29:01 <mattdm> roshi: yeah,that.
19:29:15 <mmcgrath> jzb: you're the content owner for that page, right?
19:29:27 <mattdm> I want https://getfedora.org/cloud/ to show the shining path
19:29:30 <jzb> roshi: while I'm all-in on Atomic, I'm not sure it's the right thing for Fedora to put all its attention on.
19:29:41 <roshi> that was my question
19:29:42 <jzb> there's still a huge use case for the base image
19:29:52 <dustymabe> jzb: I agree
19:29:58 <mmcgrath> mattdm: agreed on that, it's what Major would want :-D
19:30:02 <jzb> mmcgrath: yes, but we have a semblance of governace that makes that decision
19:30:03 <roshi> does our Fedora User base run a ton of containers or do they run more standard app stacks?
19:30:08 <jzb> heh
19:30:16 <jzb> mmcgrath: but I can push the bits
19:30:25 <mattdm> I don't think we should _ditch_ the base image.
19:30:36 <mattdm> roshi: well, let's also consider the user base we _want_
19:30:40 <roshi> I don't think people would set out to do that
19:30:40 <mmcgrath> jzb: k, lets figure that part out after the mtg then (I'm assuming it's a slightly different community over the Fedora community)
19:30:48 <jzb> mmcgrath: yes
19:30:55 <mattdm> because the cloud target is intended to be a growth area
19:30:56 <jzb> though significant overlap
19:30:59 <roshi> coming at this from a QA perspective
19:31:14 <roshi> if we make Atomic blocker, that's more testing resources we'll need
19:31:21 <roshi> criteria, testcases, etc etc
19:31:38 <roshi> cloud wg would be supporting two products that can block the whole release
19:31:54 <roshi> I can see it being pitched later to demote the base image from being blocker
19:32:05 <jzb> mattdm: I also, tbh, am still uncomfortable with Atomic having multiple release streams that are supported (e.g. f21, f22, f23)
19:32:17 <roshi> which, could lead to it being ditched, just by default
19:32:23 <jzb> as a top-level product we have to fit into that, as a spin, I don't think we do?
19:32:26 <mattdm> So, putting my Red Hat hat on for a second, I think the Atomic effort is important enough to Red Hat that Red Hat _wants_ it to be a release blocker in Fedora
19:32:46 <mattdm> and if lack of QA resources is a blocker for _that_, help me make the case
19:32:49 <jzb> mattdm: yeah, but we also have trouble fitting into the freezes.
19:33:03 <roshi> which is fine, but will we have people to do the testing and production and owners of it?
19:33:27 <roshi> we can help with the case for that, sure
19:33:33 <roshi> just want to make sure it's considered
19:33:42 <mattdm> Well we better have them or it won't work. Yes. Definitely needs to be said.
19:34:52 <mattdm> jzb: that's a key point too. If the Atomic $thing is primiarily rawhide-focused and has trouble lining up with release freezes, that argues that it's not ready yet
19:34:56 <roshi> the other option, if this is what's wanted by the WG and fedora as a whole, is we could just bite the bullet and ditch the base image as blocker and refocus stuff onto atomic
19:35:21 <mattdm> roshi: *super* all-in, that is :)
19:35:23 <jzb> mattdm: I mean, we *can* make it ready, but I think that may detract a bit
19:35:31 <jzb> if we're polishing old news.
19:36:09 <jzb> mmcgrath: how would hitting release targets *and* rawhide fit in with resources we have currently?
19:36:09 <roshi> exactly
19:36:24 <mmcgrath> jzb: it'd be almost identical to what it is today
19:36:36 <mmcgrath> I'm not totally clear how we do release targets today, but I'd imagine it doesn't have to change.
19:36:42 <roshi> in theory, updates testing for atomic images should be easier than for the base image
19:36:57 <mmcgrath> we already regularly build rawhide images (when the process works).  I just want to link to one of those rawhide images every 2 weeks.
19:37:15 <roshi> since it basically can't change, if I understand it correctly
19:37:36 <mattdm> mmcgrath Since _rawhide_ never freezes, that shouldn't be a problem
19:37:52 <roshi> providing we have a build working during that time
19:38:13 <roshi> it's not outside the realm of possible that we'd have two weeks of non-working rawhide builds
19:38:36 <mattdm> the issue is whether we should worry about polishing that up to be what's on the getfedora page as a numbered release
19:38:49 <mmcgrath> roshi: we're in that situation now actually
19:38:54 <roshi> well, and who's doing the polishing
19:39:07 <mmcgrath> I think the main thing here is the intention and goal.  We'll probably miss our goal from time to time.  Hopefully less and less over time.
19:39:09 <roshi> and the person with the refrectometer testing the level of polish
19:39:18 <roshi> and defining the word polish :)
19:39:27 <mattdm> So I'm actually leaning more and more away from "C". :)
19:39:35 <mmcgrath> and I'm also thinking fairly short term here, I know walters and dwalsh would like to focus more on a more stable fedora, we just don't have the tool chain to do so today.
19:39:41 <dustymabe> mattdm: and towards A?
19:39:59 <mattdm> I'm forgetting my own letters :)
19:40:04 <roshi> for F22, I don't think we can do anything but C
19:40:11 <jzb> mmcgrath: some of this boils down to upstreams we don't really control.
19:40:14 <dustymabe> roshi: agreed
19:40:16 <jzb> mmcgrath: e.g. k8s
19:40:21 <mattdm> If we _can_ satisfactorily answer all of the polish questions, I'm for making Atomic the main event.
19:40:30 <jzb> and that probably isn't going to settle down for some time.
19:40:41 <mattdm> If we can only do a halfhearted version of it, we're better off clearly separating it out
19:40:45 <mmcgrath> we don't control the upstream but we do have control on when those upstreams make it into fedora so there is some protection as long as we catch it early enough (CI will help there)
19:40:51 <roshi> is atomic on any other distros atm?
19:40:57 <mattdm> we could link to it from get.fpo but not necessarily put it in the spotlight there.
19:41:10 <mattdm> roshi: yes, released in rhel
19:41:13 <mattdm> and centos
19:41:14 <jzb> also, what happens if there's a security flaw in f21 k8s that's discovered in a few months?
19:41:26 <roshi> and debian based distros?
19:41:29 <jzb> do we have someone who will own backporting it to f21 k8s?
19:41:33 <mattdm> roshi: nope.
19:41:48 <roshi> plans to?
19:41:52 <roshi> or talks or anything?
19:41:56 <jzb> roshi: none I'm aware of.
19:42:09 <jzb> roshi: first likely victim, er distro, would be openSUSE
19:42:11 <mattdm> jzb: that's _already_ what the maintainer has signed up for in maintaining the package
19:42:18 <jzb> mattdm: OK
19:42:36 <roshi> I just worry that if we're the *only* distro that doesn't have a vanilla cloud image, that might get us losing mindshare on the "should I run fedora in the cloud?"
19:42:53 <roshi> like Digital Ocean, who puts our stuff up on their service
19:42:55 <mattdm> I think we do need to continue with the vanilla cloud image.
19:43:11 <dustymabe> +1 for vanilla cloud image for a while
19:43:33 <roshi> I might even say "Until even workstation apps run all in containers"
19:43:36 <mattdm> and practically speaking, I don't think that there are very many cases where that image would be blocked but the atomic one isn't.
19:43:55 <roshi> probably not - but I'd want to know the intent in case it did
19:44:04 <mattdm> So my preference for B would be to ask for the base image to be a release-blocking spin
19:44:22 <dustymabe> so base image becomes a "spin" now?
19:44:29 <roshi> can a spin, by definition, block?
19:44:33 <mattdm> KDE does.
19:44:35 <dustymabe> just want to make sure I understand
19:44:56 <roshi> I guess I still see KDE as the Workstation product with a new face
19:44:58 <mattdm> That's the suggestion, yeah.
19:45:07 <mattdm> roshi: yeah, except that dream was not realized
19:45:13 <mattdm> nor shared by everyone on both teams
19:45:21 <mattdm> leading to the lack of realization, I guess :)
19:45:22 <mmcgrath> So then is atomic to be a spin that can block a release?  or did I misread that?
19:45:34 <roshi> other way around
19:45:38 <roshi> is the proposal
19:45:48 <roshi> base becomes a spin, atomic becomes fedora cloud
19:45:52 <roshi> aiui
19:45:54 <mattdm> So, the status Quo is that Fedora Cloud has two outputs, one, the release-blocking base image, and two, the non-release-blocking atomic
19:46:07 <roshi> and docker, and vagrant
19:46:12 <roshi> at least that's the plan
19:46:25 <mmcgrath> nod
19:46:36 <mattdm> was the plan to put vagrant on get.fpo cloud section?
19:46:47 <mattdm> (if so, that's cool, just missed that)
19:46:56 <jzb> mattdm: it's there
19:47:22 <jzb> mattdm: https://getfedora.org/en/cloud/prerelease/
19:47:25 <mattdm> oh why so it is, in the prerelease
19:47:28 <mattdm> nifty
19:47:38 <roshi> we've got plenty of stuff that we're "producing" atm
19:47:38 <jzb> though somehow we don't have the base cloud image, just Atomic.
19:48:06 <jzb> It occurs to me we might have wanted Adam to weigh in more thoroughly as well.
19:48:07 <mattdm> jzb: wait, so that vagrant image there is atomic only?
19:48:11 <mattdm> oh so confusing.
19:48:14 <jzb> mattdm: correct
19:48:15 <jzb> mattdm: yes
19:48:20 <jzb> mattdm: a twisty maze of images...
19:48:35 <roshi> that's for sure
19:48:36 <jzb> mattdm: which is why I'm sort of in favor of focusing on rawhide and not six-month releases.
19:48:36 <mattdm> hmmm fundamentally vagrant is being treated as a download format, then, not really a special target
19:48:54 <mattdm> jzb: and moving atomic offa there _entirely_?
19:49:13 <jzb> mattdm: and having its own spin page and being linked from ProjectAtomic.io, yeah.
19:49:27 <roshi> we can bring adam in if you want - afaik, he hasn't been following much if anything about cloud
19:49:29 <jzb> mattdm: sort of in favor. I realize there's tradeoffs
19:49:51 <mattdm> Which is what I'd labeled Option A.
19:50:03 <jzb> mattdm: yes
19:50:11 <jzb> roshi: he +1'ed the concept (A)
19:50:27 <jzb> but that was a drive-by comment, I'd like to get more of his thinking there.
19:50:54 <jzb> so maybe we move (back) to the mailing list and take a vote next week?
19:51:07 <jzb> we've been pretty good with getting consensus, and I think we can do so with this.
19:51:12 <roshi> on list?
19:51:17 * roshi didn't see it
19:51:20 <mattdm> (I think if we did A, we could put a shiny atomic logo in the right column in the get.fpo page and point to it there)
19:51:25 <jzb> roshi: discuss on list, maybe take a vote during the meeting.
19:51:35 <roshi> I mean adams input
19:51:35 <dustymabe> so we are leaning towards A ?
19:51:38 <jzb> roshi: yes
19:51:53 <jzb> dustymabe: quick (non-binding) poll?
19:52:06 <roshi> oh, you mean adam miller
19:52:10 <roshi> not williamson
19:52:17 <jzb> roshi: ahh, I see the confusion. Yes. :-)
19:52:21 * roshi was confused - thought you meant more QA input
19:52:26 <roshi> nvm
19:52:27 <jzb> roshi: pfft, who needs that?
19:52:29 * jzb ducks
19:52:48 <mmcgrath> :)
19:52:53 * roshi lets jzb wander in the untested darkness with nary a warning, perhaps we'll see him again :p
19:52:57 <oddshocks> Is A atomic as its own spin?
19:53:04 * oddshocks can't pull up the list
19:53:09 <dustymabe> oddshocks: yeah
19:53:12 <mattdm> yes, let me reiterrate them...
19:53:15 <jzb> oddshocks: yes
19:53:16 <roshi> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/96
19:53:23 <oddshocks> While I don't know much about the consequences of all this of course, I did like the sound of A
19:53:39 <mattdm> A) atomic as own spin, maybe linked from get.fpo but not presented as "Fedora Cloud"
19:53:48 <dustymabe> the only thing I didn't like about A was what boyer said
19:53:56 <mattdm> B) Atomic as the main Fedora Cloud, with the base image as a (release-blocking?) spin
19:54:02 <mattdm> C) as is for now.
19:54:26 <mattdm> Right, spins basically only get the amount of love and attention that the people working on the spins put into it and out
19:54:41 <mattdm> they're _not_ the main Fedora focus
19:54:49 <mattdm> (although I try to talk them up wherever appropriate)
19:55:17 <oddshocks> I strongly dislike B, but A sounds good
19:55:27 <oddshocks> I don't think it's time to make Atomic the "main" release yet
19:55:30 <jwb> if you move atomic to a spin, would that spin primarily be atomic host?
19:55:38 <jzb> mattdm: in theory we would be putting quite a bit of promo into the spin via Project Atomic, though I ack that it's not as well-known as Fedora, of course.
19:55:42 <roshi> with A, atomic keeps it's non-blocker status, right?
19:55:51 <jzb> roshi: yes
19:55:56 <oddshocks> Rad
19:55:58 <roshi> also going to want to file tickets with the design group as well
19:56:08 <mattdm> jwb atomic host as opposed to?
19:56:11 <roshi> +1 C for F22, +1 A for F23
19:56:21 <jwb> mattdm, as opposed to the current atomic cloud image
19:56:25 <dustymabe> roshi: yeah. I think it's too late for F22
19:56:29 <jzb> agreed
19:56:30 <dustymabe> agreed
19:56:32 <oddshocks> ^ I don't see anything wrong with roshi's feelings either
19:56:37 <mattdm> jwb the current atomic cloud image _is_ atomic host
19:56:39 <jzb> +1 C for f22, +1 A for F23
19:56:45 <oddshocks> oh yeah at this point I suppose we're headed for F22 beta huh :P
19:56:53 <oddshocks> I'm with roshi and jzb then
19:56:53 <roshi> I would presume you'd have two images for the atomic spin: cloud based atomic and bare metal based atomic
19:57:05 <jwb> mattdm, what roshi just said
19:57:10 <jzb> roshi: also vagrant boxen.
19:57:22 <jwb> mattdm, i guess i was equating "atomic host" with "bare metal iso" thing
19:57:35 <roshi> atomic host != atomic image, to me
19:57:38 <mattdm> jwb: oh I see. no. :)
19:57:53 <roshi> but again, with our labrynthian image set we currently have
19:57:57 <mattdm> Atomic Host is the thing that hosts containers, running in virt or bare metal
19:57:58 <jwb> mattdm, bummer.  i could get walters' f22 atomic host iso working.  i couldn't get the f21 cloud image to work
19:58:14 <mattdm> they're both Atomic Host
19:58:21 <jwb> s/f21 cloud image/f21 atomic cloud image
19:58:37 <roshi> I don't think the line is clear out in the wild though mattdm :)
19:58:41 <dustymabe> f21 atomic cloud image should work
19:58:59 <dustymabe> at least it's hosting my website :)
19:58:59 <mattdm> I think the spin would consist of both an image _and_ the bare metal installer
19:59:08 <jwb> dustymabe, it booted.  i couldn't get the metadata iso thing to work, so i couldn't actually do anything with it
19:59:14 <dustymabe> mattdm: +1
19:59:15 <jwb> anyway, i don't want to derail your meeting
19:59:21 <jwb> mattdm, yay
19:59:24 <roshi> jwb, last I checked it works fine with testcloud
19:59:40 <roshi> that makes the most sense, I think for the spin
20:00:02 <jwb> roshi, no idea what that is.  i don't really care about _cloud_ in this aspect.  i wanted to try atomic, and the iso worked great for my purposes
20:00:26 <jwb> so, not that my opinion counts for anything, but making it its own spin away from cloud seems nice
20:00:37 * mmcgrath notes time check
20:01:21 <mattdm> in the straw poll, I'm for either A or B, depending on what people are excited about actually doing. The decision should be based on that.
20:02:00 <roshi> at least in my case, it has less to do with excitement and more to do with time and resources
20:02:19 <roshi> I think A is about what we can reasonably accomplish
20:02:38 <mmcgrath> A) would give Atomic the ability to diverge a bit more too right?
20:02:43 <roshi> aiui
20:02:51 <jzb> mmcgrath: yes
20:02:59 <dustymabe> I think B is a little too aggressive.. just an opinion
20:03:06 <jzb> mmcgrath: the only question in my mind is how much
20:03:10 * dustymabe selfishly still likes the cloud image for some things
20:03:17 <oddshocks> Also, people would be able to involve themselves in a specialized group for the spin, in case they don't care much about cloud in general but are particularly interested in atomic
20:03:22 <mmcgrath> which I think in some ways is what Dan and Colin want.  I think they'd love to use the F22 spin, and put the rawhide versions of their packages on it.
20:03:22 <jzb> dustymabe: yes we definitely need it for lots of users.
20:03:31 <mmcgrath> I have no idea how to do that yet, but I know they'd like to see it.
20:04:04 <jzb> we're +1 hour now, shall we continue discussion on the list?
20:04:23 <Corey84> mmcgrath, not too hard id have half of rawhid eon 21
20:04:25 <roshi> that seems best
20:04:34 <roshi> we have one more ticket, and I had something for open floor
20:04:39 <mmcgrath> Corey84: good to hear
20:04:42 <mmcgrath> +1 to the list
20:05:11 <mattdm> roshi: sure, sure, excitement, practical reality, whichever :)
20:05:26 <roshi> :p
20:05:48 <roshi> if only I could find a way to trim down my "this is cool and I want to play with it" list :p
20:06:18 <roshi> #agreed Discussion on ticket 96 to move to the mailing list
20:06:24 <roshi> #topic Updated images
20:06:31 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94
20:07:09 <roshi> oddshocks: got anything for this?
20:07:17 <roshi> since you're kind point man for this bit :)
20:07:33 <oddshocks> Mhm
20:07:53 <oddshocks> Like my last comment says, Dennis says there's been some sort of progress on this
20:08:12 <oddshocks> in the form of (1) him updating the images (2) writing a script of some sort to help facilitate that, I guess?
20:08:29 <oddshocks> That's it :P
20:08:56 <oddshocks> also, that ticket I link to is relevant, apparently
20:09:02 <oddshocks> https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/6098#comment:6
20:09:13 <roshi> looks like it, thanks for tracking this one
20:09:19 <oddshocks> tl;dr I think releng still needs more time with this
20:09:20 <roshi> anybody else have anything for it?
20:09:32 <dustymabe> nope
20:09:32 <roshi> they're pretty swamped I think
20:09:42 <roshi> #topic Open Floor
20:10:13 <roshi> so, tomorrow we have a test day for Ipsilon
20:10:17 <roshi> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2015-03-12_Ipsilon
20:10:32 <roshi> Ipsilon just recently merge with what we all know as FedOAuth
20:11:00 <roshi> I think it would be good for cloud folks to help with the testing of that, since as cloud people we presumably launch run and maintain web applications
20:11:30 * roshi is going to write a blog post about it today
20:11:43 <oddshocks> There's been significant progress on adding a Cloud Image section to the releng dash, with respect to AMIs and whatnot. Soon, you'll be able to look at the releng dash and see the latest Fedimg uploads, and other info about them, like service, region, or AMI ID
20:11:52 <oddshocks> That's probably the coolest news from my end
20:12:09 <oddshocks> thanks to rtnpro for working on the widgets for that :)
20:12:10 <roshi> sweet
20:12:32 <rtnpro> oddshocks, :)
20:12:41 <oddshocks> Also, Fedimg should be more stable now, thanks to recent fixes to the fedimg01 machine and whatnot
20:12:44 <dustymabe> roshi: I wish I could help out with testing but right now I'm overbooked
20:12:52 <roshi> no you're not
20:12:57 <roshi> the book being over is a lie
20:13:00 <roshi> :p
20:13:14 <dustymabe> :)
20:13:34 <dustymabe> I'm hoping to be a bigger part of test days in the future though
20:13:43 <roshi> sweet, that'd be great :)
20:14:03 <roshi> well, that's all I have
20:14:07 * roshi sets the fuse...
20:14:09 <roshi> 3...
20:14:29 <Corey84> 2 ....
20:14:42 * oddshocks all set
20:14:48 * dustymabe cuts black wire
20:14:53 <Corey84> 1......
20:14:53 <dustymabe> BOOM
20:14:54 <roshi> BOOM
20:15:02 <roshi> it was the wrong wire
20:15:05 <dustymabe> yep
20:15:08 <Corey84> somebody screwed up the fuses :)
20:15:08 <roshi> always cut the GREEN wire
20:15:15 <roshi> or was it the blue?
20:15:23 <dustymabe> roshi: that's what they want you to think
20:15:26 <roshi> haha
20:15:32 <roshi> thanks for coming folks!
20:15:37 <Corey84> what if its from the anarchist cookbook and all black tape covered?
20:15:43 <roshi> #endmeeting