15:00:54 <sgallagh> #startmeeting Server SIG Weekly Meeting (2015-04-07) 15:00:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr 7 15:00:54 2015 UTC. The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:54 <sgallagh> #chair sgallagh mizmo nirik stefw adamw simo tuanta mitr danofsatx 15:00:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw danofsatx mitr mizmo nirik sgallagh simo stefw tuanta 15:00:54 <sgallagh> #topic roll call 15:01:16 <nirik> morning 15:01:21 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh 15:01:21 <junland> .hello junland 15:01:22 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com> 15:01:25 <stefw> .hello stefw 15:01:26 <zodbot> junland: junland 'John Unland' <opensourcejohn2112@gmail.com> 15:01:29 <zodbot> stefw: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com> 15:03:00 <mitr> Hell 15:03:03 <mitr> Hello 15:03:10 <mitr> (sorry) 15:03:12 <simo> .hello simo 15:03:16 <zodbot> simo: simo 'Simo Sorce' <ssorce@redhat.com> 15:03:27 <simo> mitr: a bad day today? :) 15:03:43 <mitr> Luckily just a typo 15:04:41 <sgallagh> #topic Agenda 15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing 15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Talking Points 15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: NTP 15:04:51 <adamw> ahoy 15:05:31 <sgallagh> Any other agenda topics? 15:05:59 <sgallagh> OK, let's get started then 15:06:03 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing 15:06:06 <sgallagh> #undo 15:06:06 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by sgallagh at 15:06:03 : Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing 15:06:12 <sgallagh> #topic F22 Beta Testing 15:06:37 <sgallagh> adamw: Any progress on the test cases for the DB role? 15:06:57 <adamw> nope. always seems to be that something else comes up first. 15:07:05 <adamw> hopefully it's not too hard to test it without instructions... 15:07:49 <jsmith> Shouldn't be :-p 15:07:50 <sgallagh> It's hard to get a sense of what specifically has to be working 15:08:11 <sgallagh> anyone want to volunteer to help turn the core and functional requirements pages into actual test plans? 15:08:11 <adamw> what's written in the criteria 15:08:20 <adamw> er, requirements. :P 15:08:31 <adamw> if no-one else volunteers i will get to it some damn time, honest 15:08:52 <sgallagh> adamw: I'm just a little concerned about "some damn time" not being before Go/No-Go ;) 15:08:53 <junland> I'll be busy with a group project for my class but I will try to leave some input...if I can... 15:09:54 <sgallagh> #info Help needed to convert Database Server Role requirements into a test plan 15:10:10 <sgallagh> OK, I'll see what I can squeeze into my schedule this afternoon. 15:10:35 <sgallagh> adamw: Is there a howto document on the proper wiki magic? 15:10:52 <adamw> sgallagh: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation 15:11:00 <sgallagh> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation 15:11:01 <sgallagh> Thanks 15:11:03 <adamw> for a basic test case little magic is required, just using the test case template (which the SOP talks about) 15:11:27 <adamw> i quite often use extra templates just to share things like setup steps that are the same between multiple test cases. 15:11:57 <mizmo> hi guys sorry i have to skip the meeting today, im onboarding a new intern 15:12:00 <sgallagh> So once those test plans exist (or at least start existing) later today, I need some volunteers to run through them and add karma. 15:12:08 <sgallagh> mizmo: No worries! 15:12:17 <adamw> oh, one thing, do make sure you stick with the convention that the name starts with "QA:Testcase" 15:12:28 * nirik nods. wiki namespace is important. 15:12:39 <adamw> nirik: also wikitcms relies on it for finding test cases. 15:12:53 <adamw> (it handles some old variants too, but QA:Testcase is the New Normal.) 15:12:56 <sgallagh> adamw: That says to me "This belongs in the SOP" :) 15:13:01 <adamw> it's in the Wikitcms SOP 15:13:13 <sgallagh> k 15:13:13 <adamw> but yeah, should probably be there too, if it isn't. i'll check 15:13:21 <adamw> ah yes, it is. 15:13:26 <sgallagh> great 15:13:46 <sgallagh> So... volunteers to run the tests if I (and others) create them? 15:14:14 <sgallagh> Related: I need to make a decision *today* on whether rolekit 0.3.1 goes to stable. 15:14:20 * adamw will try to do that also 15:14:34 <sgallagh> Because if things go *well*, we'll have a release candidate tonight 15:14:39 <adamw> we should be able to automate the db tests somehow or other, really. 15:14:55 <sgallagh> adamw: Yeah, should be relatively straightforward. 15:15:03 <sgallagh> Easily scriptable, at any rate 15:15:28 <sgallagh> s/have a release candidate tonight/will be building a release candidate tonight/ 15:16:11 <sgallagh> I've tested it myself reasonably well, but given that the DB Role is kind of our Big Feature this release, I'd like to have someone else sign off on it. 15:16:31 <sgallagh> So I'm going to try to get this test plan written ASAP (I'll bump my other stuff, I guess). 15:16:49 <sgallagh> #action sgallagh to write up a Database Role test plan today 15:18:02 <adamw> thanks 15:18:04 <sgallagh> OK, I think we've beaten that particular deceased equine sufficiently 15:18:11 <adamw> i can already see the crap that's gonna eat the rest of my day. 15:18:25 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Talking Points 15:19:06 <sgallagh> tuanta has volunteered to gather and write these up, but we should probably offer a few suggestions. 15:19:38 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Database Server Role 15:19:54 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Default to XFS filesystem 15:20:05 <sgallagh> (most of you are chaired, so jump right in) 15:20:07 <nirik> these are short sentences/statements for a brochure or the like? 15:20:18 <sgallagh> nirik: Right now, these are just ideas. 15:20:57 <sgallagh> The talking points will be narrowed down by marketing/ambassadors (probably by tuanta in our case) and then turned into a training exercise for ambassadors. 15:20:57 <stefw> From Fedora 22, Cockpit now has a backward compatibility guarantee ... you can add Fedora Servers to the dashboard as long as they're all Fedora 22+ 15:21:02 <stefw> is that worth mentioning? 15:21:07 <sgallagh> So they're not just short blurbs 15:21:13 <sgallagh> stefw: Yes, absolutely 15:21:36 <nirik> ok 15:21:49 <adamw> do we have cockpit role deployment yet? 15:21:51 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: From Fedora 22 onwards, Cockpit will be compatible between OS releases 15:22:00 <sgallagh> adamw: No, that was deferred to F23 15:22:03 <adamw> k. 15:22:15 <sgallagh> I've probably got a GSoC student to work on it, which is great. 15:24:02 <sgallagh> I suspect we also want these to be primarily user-focused talking points. So things like pbrobinson's excellent work slimming down dependencies is probably not worth including (though it's a great addition) 15:24:28 <sgallagh> Ooh, Docker support on ARMv7hl is probably worth mentioning, yes? 15:25:52 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Fedora Server supports Docker containers on the armv7hl architecture 15:26:16 <sgallagh> Other high-visibility changes? 15:26:23 <nirik> worth mentioning yum->dnf? but that might be in other places already 15:26:31 <adamw> yeah, doesn't seem flavor-specific. 15:27:38 <sgallagh> Let's call it out anyway 15:27:46 <sgallagh> Worst case, it ends on the cutting-room floor 15:27:47 <nirik> ipsilon might be interesting to server folks... 15:28:06 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: DNF as the default package manager 15:28:57 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Ipsilon - new multiple-protocol identity provider service 15:29:38 <simo> I hope we can land 1.0 w/o too many bugs :) 15:29:41 <simo> (of Ipsilon) 15:30:19 <sgallagh> simo: (slightly OT) Is there documentation on how to stand up Ipsilon with FreeIPA somewhere? 15:30:51 <simo> almost :) 15:31:11 * nirik is looking forward to it being deployed in infra. ;) 15:31:19 <sgallagh> /me mutters something about horseshoes 15:31:30 <sgallagh> OK, anything else on this topic? 15:32:24 <sgallagh> OK, on to NTP then 15:32:31 <sgallagh> #topic NTP 15:32:39 <simo> sgallagh: well al lyou need to do is setup with --ipa=yes iirc: ) 15:33:06 <simo> sgallagh: should we open bugs to make the domain controller role configure cronyd as ntp server ? 15:33:09 <sgallagh> So, as noted on the list, I tweaked comps.xml so that TC9/RC1 should install chrony by default 15:33:19 <sgallagh> simo: I'm honestly surprised it doesn't already. 15:33:27 <adamw> what was it installing before? 15:33:30 <sgallagh> Chrony has been the default in Fedora for, what four releases now? 15:33:44 <sgallagh> adamw: Somewhere between F21 and F22, it stopped installing CHrony 15:33:47 <adamw> ah. 15:34:12 <sgallagh> I couldn't actually figure out how it got installed in F21. Seemed a lucky accident 15:34:48 <sgallagh> Might have been pulled in by an obscure dependency chain that we broke 15:34:59 <nirik> domain controller needs a ntp server ? 15:35:15 <simo> nirik: so that clients stay in sync 15:35:17 <nirik> if so, then yeah, if we can make chrony do it that seems better to me than going back to ntp. 15:35:30 <simo> it is optional 15:35:36 <simo> but we install it by default 15:35:58 * nirik nods. 15:36:34 <sgallagh> I need to test, but I think freeipa-server-install disables chrony if it's running in favor of ntp 15:36:43 <sgallagh> (I think I remember that from two or three years ago) 15:36:48 <nirik> I think this would be good to poke at after beta... ;) 15:37:13 <sgallagh> nirik: Actually, I need to verify that statement. 15:37:34 <sgallagh> Because if it *breaks* if chrony is installed, we have a problem :) 15:37:51 <simo> sgallagh: it doesn't break afaik 15:37:59 <nirik> yeah. Hope not 15:38:13 * nirik wonders again about comps gating during freeze. ;) 15:38:33 <sgallagh> Well, installing chrony on an F22 server running FreeIPA right now results in NTP being stopped and chrony started 15:38:41 <simo> oh it *did* break when chrony was first introduced in fedora, so we fixed it to turn chronyd off instead of breaking :) 15:38:58 <sgallagh> ok 15:39:17 <sgallagh> So for now, let's agree that no (further) changes will be made for Beta? 15:39:19 <simo> sgallagh: as long as chronyd serves client sit is fine if it doesn;t listen on the network though then it is bad 15:39:53 <sgallagh> simo: Can you have the FreeIPA guys look into a full chrony solution and see if it's feasible for Final? If not, we'll defer to F23. 15:40:42 <simo> not now 15:40:50 <mitr> Has mlichvar actually said that chrony is a better server than ntpd? 15:40:53 <simo> they are way too busy 15:41:21 <mitr> (It has been kind of implied, but still) 15:41:31 <simo> better how? exactly ? 15:41:59 <mitr> better overall all things considered 15:42:53 <mitr> Anyway, that’s post-F22 15:43:04 <nirik> well, fewer security issues, but younger. ;) 15:44:30 <sgallagh> #info We'll stick with chrony by default in F22, with the Server Role replacing it with NTP if deployed. 15:44:55 <simo> +1 15:45:06 <sgallagh> #info Plans for F23 include doing an analysis of the relative benefits of chrony, ntp and timesyncd and switching everything to the one that makes the most sense. 15:45:17 <nirik> sure. 15:45:31 <mitr> ack 15:45:53 <sgallagh> Anything further on this topic? 15:46:40 <junland> Nope. 15:46:51 <sgallagh> #topic Open Floor 15:46:56 <sgallagh> Anything for Open Floor? 15:48:01 * nirik has nothing to bring up 15:49:21 <sgallagh> OK, thanks for coming folks. I'll get those test plans up soon. 15:49:30 <sgallagh> #endmeeting