17:02:39 <roshi> #startmeeting Cloud WG
17:02:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 28 17:02:39 2015 UTC.  The chair is roshi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:45 <roshi> #meetingname Cloud WG
17:02:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'cloud_wg'
17:02:53 <roshi> #topic Roll Call
17:02:57 <sayan> .hellomynameis sayanchowdhury
17:02:58 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:02:58 <adimania> .hello adimania
17:02:59 <roshi> who's around?
17:03:02 <roshi> .hello roshi
17:03:02 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:03:04 <zodbot> adimania: adimania 'Aditya Patawari' <adimania@gmail.com>
17:03:05 <dustymabe> .hellomynameis dustymabe
17:03:07 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
17:03:10 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:03:13 <lalatenduM> .hello lalatendu
17:03:13 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:03:15 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks
17:03:17 <zodbot> lalatenduM: lalatendu 'Lalatendu Mohanty' <lmohanty@redhat.com>
17:03:20 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:03:30 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:03:31 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:04:05 <smdeep> .hellomynameis smdeep
17:04:06 <zodbot> smdeep: smdeep 'Sudeep Mukherjee' <smdeep@gmail.com>
17:04:18 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:04:18 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:05:01 <roshi> sweet - good turnout :)
17:05:10 <roshi> #topic Previous Meeting Followup
17:05:12 <roshi> scollier to close https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/124 dusty to open ansible on atomic 23 ticket dmabe,mattdm we need to integrate the Cloud WG and the 2 week atomic efforts
17:05:21 <roshi> and that didn't preserve the newlines
17:05:22 <roshi> jas
17:05:31 <roshi> * scollier to close https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/124
17:05:31 <roshi> * dusty to open ansible on atomic 23 ticket
17:05:32 <roshi> * dmabe,mattdm we need to integrate the Cloud WG and the 2 week atomic efforts
17:05:36 <roshi> there
17:06:15 <roshi> doesn't look like 124 got closed
17:06:17 <dustymabe> so I just closed 124
17:06:21 <dustymabe> :)
17:06:21 <roshi> thanks
17:06:29 <adimania> A question around this
17:06:30 <roshi> and you have updates for the other two?
17:06:33 <dustymabe> the ansible atomic 23 ticket.. I didn't open one
17:06:42 <dustymabe> because walters put in some python stuff into the image
17:06:50 <dustymabe> before I had a chance to open the ticket
17:07:02 <dustymabe> should I still open the ticket, point to the work, and then close it?
17:07:34 <adimania> Should we continue packaging fedora-dockerfiles package in repo or should we stop to favor dist-git?
17:08:12 <dustymabe> adimania: that might be a question for scollier who can't make it today
17:08:18 <dustymabe> maybe send an email to the list?
17:08:33 <adimania> ok.
17:08:37 <lalatenduM> Having a single git repo helps (in term of maintaining it)
17:08:46 <dustymabe> roshi: action me/mattdm for the last item again
17:08:47 <lalatenduM> +1 for email to list
17:09:15 <adimania> fyi, I am the primary owner for the package. I just wanted to know the opinion of more people.
17:09:16 <jzb> am I late?
17:09:21 <jzb> looks like I are.
17:09:41 <dustymabe> nah.. just in time
17:10:14 <roshi> sure thing
17:10:22 <jzb> were we going to discuss mattdm's email?
17:10:31 <jzb> I'm ... puzzled, but it seems like a good convo to have.
17:10:36 <roshi> #chair dustymabe lalatenduM adimania jzb maxamillion jbrooks kushal sayan smdeep rtnpro
17:10:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: adimania dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal lalatenduM maxamillion roshi rtnpro sayan smdeep
17:10:40 <dustymabe> jzb: I'd like to in open floor
17:10:48 <dustymabe> maybe mattdm will be here too
17:11:02 <roshi> #action dustymabe to integrate cloud WG and 2 week atomic efforts
17:11:20 <roshi> onto the tickets!
17:11:30 <maxamillion> jzb: depending on which of mattdm's emails you're referring to I wa splanning to bring it up
17:11:38 <roshi> #topic python3 only breaks ansible
17:11:41 <maxamillion> dustymabe: wait, what are we integrating?
17:11:46 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/126
17:11:58 <maxamillion> dustymabe: actually, we can follow up outside the meeting on that
17:12:18 <jzb> maxamillion: "Why I'm excited"?
17:12:27 <maxamillion> jzb: ah, ok ... I was going to talk about something different
17:12:37 <jzb> wait
17:12:46 <maxamillion> jzb: +1
17:12:48 <jzb> are we discussing python
17:12:54 <roshi> we are
17:12:58 <maxamillion> yes
17:13:05 <jzb> As loathe as I am to fatten the Atomic image
17:13:08 <dustymabe> ok. I need to follow up on this ticket and close it
17:13:12 <jzb> it seems ... bad to not have Ansible support.
17:13:21 <jzb> and I would have said that *before* the thing
17:13:21 <dustymabe> this ticket is in regard to the cloud base image
17:13:27 <jzb> ah
17:13:29 <jzb> sorry :-)
17:13:30 <jzb> same applies.
17:13:34 <kushal> dustymabe, I am okay in putting the packages in.
17:13:41 <roshi> as am I
17:13:51 <roshi> ansible support would suck to not have on our images
17:13:51 <dustymabe> we decided last week( when mattdm was here) to not include them
17:13:53 <dustymabe> and to do socs
17:13:55 <dustymabe> docs
17:14:02 <kushal> dustymabe, Oh okay
17:14:06 <roshi> right, that's what I was just going to say
17:14:11 <jzb> dustymabe: we decided in the meeting not on the ML?
17:14:12 <kushal> dustymabe, I missed it as it seems
17:14:29 <roshi> I'm in favor of having the packages in there, but that was the decision
17:14:32 <kushal> dustymabe, i am okay in that, but it will require a lot of messaging/docs :)
17:14:32 <dustymabe> jzb: well the discussion was had here
17:14:35 <roshi> jzb: pretty sure
17:14:51 <dustymabe> if you feel strongly otherwise then let's open it up again
17:14:56 <dustymabe> in the ticket this time
17:15:02 <dustymabe> but it's not like we have much time
17:15:14 <dustymabe> there are "workarounds" for getting ansible to work
17:15:14 <jzb> hrm.
17:15:23 <dustymabe> but they aren't great
17:15:37 <jzb> dustymabe: if we've made a decision, then I dont' want to open a can of worms b/c I've been bad about attending meetings.
17:15:52 <jzb> dustymabe: but I'd gently suggest in the future we have [DISCUSS] and [VOTE] threads on the ML
17:16:10 <jzb> so folks who are absent can chime in and it's obvious when we're making Big Decisions (TM)
17:16:40 <jzb> EOF
17:16:51 <dustymabe> ok
17:17:07 <adimania> +1
17:17:13 <dustymabe> i mean let's face it. it would be better for the user to have ansible support
17:17:18 <lalatenduM> +1
17:17:30 <dustymabe> but what does that mean we are doing? being different from the rest of the distro
17:17:33 <dustymabe> is that good or bad?
17:17:39 <dustymabe> how far does it go?
17:17:51 <roshi> I'd say cloud is different from the rest of the distro - just look at cloud-init
17:17:51 <jbrooks> better for fedora, too
17:18:12 <lalatenduM> what ever better for community
17:18:32 <dustymabe> ok. I'll open it up on the list
17:18:41 <dustymabe> roshi: how much time is there left?
17:18:47 <dustymabe> I'm thinking 0
17:18:50 <jzb> dustymabe: well, isn't that the point of different editions?
17:18:57 <jzb> being able to be different where necessary?
17:19:00 <roshi> for F23?
17:19:03 <dustymabe> yeah
17:19:11 <jzb> I thought the breakdown was we just don't have two versions of the same package
17:19:18 <roshi> it's really close to "no chance"
17:19:24 <roshi> lemme check
17:19:39 <dustymabe> jzb: I don't know what you mean?
17:19:49 <dustymabe> oh I think I know
17:19:56 <jzb> dustymabe: as I understand it, it's OK for different editions to have different package selections
17:20:02 <dustymabe> yes, we just dropped the old versions of the libraries because no deps brought them in
17:20:15 <jzb> but not like, a separate version of a package like a divergent Python2 something
17:20:15 <dustymabe> because we are python3 only now in our base
17:20:20 <dustymabe> nah
17:20:22 <roshi> it's not looking like we'll have another RC
17:20:39 <dustymabe> where was jzb a week ago :(
17:21:11 <nzwulfin_> so all F23 is losing py2 and ansible will break everywhere?
17:21:28 <dustymabe> nzwulfin_: without workarounds.. yes
17:21:40 <jzb> dustymabe: in an all day meeting with my team.
17:21:57 <nzwulfin_> dustymabe: thx
17:22:02 <jzb> dustymabe: sorry
17:22:10 <dustymabe> jzb: it's ok
17:22:30 <dustymabe> I should have sent this to the list.. but there is the ticket, so we were somewhat transparent
17:22:50 <kushal> nzwulfin_, yes
17:22:58 <jzb> dustymabe: indeed. I've been buried and not keeping up with cloud@ well enough lately.
17:23:01 <dustymabe> we are planning to release updated images so we can add it back if we want to
17:23:02 * jzb hangs head in shame.
17:23:19 <dustymabe> so we will stick with docs for now
17:23:23 <roshi> yeah
17:23:29 <dustymabe> probably deserves a fed mag post
17:23:31 <roshi> that's where we're at right now
17:23:31 <dustymabe> jzb: ^^
17:24:29 <jzb> OK
17:24:42 <jzb> let's hope we can do that and they don't reject it because it's too "community focused"
17:24:45 * jzb grumbles.
17:24:47 <roshi> dustymabe: can you update the ticket?
17:25:05 <jzb> do we have basic docs to fix this?
17:25:12 <roshi> jzb: the editors meeting is tomorrow - I'll drop a pitch for it to discuss
17:25:15 <jzb> maybe we can use an ansible playbook to install Python 2
17:25:17 <jzb> oh, wait.
17:25:21 <roshi> you willing to write it?
17:25:39 <jzb> roshi: I'm willing to help, if we have barebones instructions
17:25:47 <roshi> they're in the ticket
17:25:50 <jzb> OK
17:25:56 <jzb> sign me up
17:26:39 <roshi> #action jzb to write up a magazine article on bootstrapping if the pitch is accepted for the magazine
17:26:46 <dustymabe> yeah the workarounds are there. basically use raw mode and set gather_facts to no
17:26:50 <roshi> #action roshi to put in for the magazine pitch
17:26:54 <jzb> roshi: thanks
17:26:58 <roshi> np
17:27:12 <roshi> #topic Updated Cloud/Atomic images
17:27:18 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94
17:27:58 <kushal> related update: rtnpro wrote many unittests for the atomic images
17:28:16 <kushal> and we also have the atomic command broken in the latest f22 image, missing dbus module
17:28:39 <kushal> means we will be adding these as tests, and run them in autocloud in the coming days.
17:29:31 <kushal> EOF from me.
17:29:45 <roshi> I feel like we can update and close this ticket
17:29:54 <roshi> last action on it was 5 weeks ago
17:30:14 <dustymabe> roshi: right..
17:30:47 <dustymabe> I guess the only thing to ask is: does this include 2 week atomic and releasing updating cloud images (once per month) for cloud base image
17:30:58 <kushal> dustymabe, I think so
17:31:00 <dustymabe> should we create new tickets for those items as we will be addressing them very soon
17:31:15 <kushal> dustymabe, mostly the cloud base image, as atomic one will happen anyway
17:31:24 <maxamillion> \o/
17:31:34 * roshi has been in release validation mode - so haven't kept track with all our tickets and whatnot
17:31:40 <kushal> Thanks to maxamillion
17:32:02 <maxamillion> kushal: you did all the hard work
17:32:04 <dustymabe> ok. I'll close this one and open something new, more specific in scope
17:33:00 <roshi> #action dustymabe to close ticket 94 and open a couple more specific tickets
17:34:14 <roshi> since we're running shorter on time for the number of tickets we have, anyone mind if I jump right to #127? (Working with the server wg)
17:34:30 <dustymabe> roshi: sure
17:34:39 <roshi> #topic Working with the Server WG
17:34:48 <roshi> #link https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/127
17:35:39 <dustymabe> jzb: do you have any thoughts here
17:35:59 <dustymabe> I know I do, but I'd like to hear others
17:36:04 <jzb> looking
17:36:12 <roshi> so, dustymabe and I were at the server meeting and said we'd come up with a proposal for this seomtime after F23 release
17:36:15 <roshi> fwiw
17:36:35 <kushal> dustymabe, I am not sure about what we want do.
17:36:36 <dustymabe> roshi: did we say all of that?
17:36:39 <dustymabe> :)
17:36:40 <kushal> * want to do.
17:36:54 <dustymabe> personally I like the cloud image being small
17:37:02 <kushal> dustymabe, +1 in that
17:37:14 <jzb> dustymabe: +1
17:37:18 <kushal> dustymabe, and then people may install whatever they want
17:37:22 <jzb> I think we should be coordinating more than we are
17:37:28 <dustymabe> and I think it is confusing to have multiple versions of things out there
17:37:43 <jzb> but I think there's still some fuzziness on what people want to spin up on an IaaS and what they want on bare metal.
17:37:45 <dustymabe> god forbid we have to upload another set of images to ec2
17:37:52 <jbrooks> I think the base image makes most sense as a version of the server product
17:37:57 <roshi> haha, yeah
17:38:04 <jbrooks> ppl run servers in clouds
17:38:10 <roshi> (to dustymabe)
17:38:20 <jzb> heh
17:38:47 <jzb> jbrooks: sure. If you're doing it wrong, you can take the Scotch approach to cloud :-)
17:38:53 <dustymabe> ppl also use cloud-init to configure the minimal images to run the services they need
17:38:56 <kushal> jzb, and that is?
17:39:02 <kushal> dustymabe, Yup.
17:39:13 <jzb> kushal: sorry, I tried to re-coin the Pets vs. Cattle to Scotch vs. PBR
17:39:23 <dustymabe> I think going heavy weight is the wrong approach
17:39:29 <jbrooks> I don
17:39:33 <kushal> jzb, oh :D
17:39:33 <dustymabe> but I could be wrong
17:39:35 <jzb> kushal: that is, running a specific instance you hand-configure in the cloud like you would an old-school bare metal server.
17:39:45 <jzb> you *can* do it, but you really shouldn't
17:40:00 <kushal> jzb, yup, because it is cloud, it can go down anytime
17:40:01 <dustymabe> jzb: agreed. and I think almost anyone you ask will tell you that
17:40:09 <kushal> dustymabe yes
17:40:16 <jbrooks> I don't think it makes sense to brand the server product as pet-only, but if that's what it's for, then... ok
17:40:39 <jbrooks> A server product w/o a cloud story doesn't sound very compelling to me
17:40:51 <dustymabe> jbrooks: maybe it isn't pet only, but it probably has stuff people don't want or need
17:41:00 <maxamillion> jzb: just because you shouldn't doesn't mean it doesn't get done ... a lot
17:41:29 <dustymabe> maxamillion: right, but do we expect that trend to grow, or shrink
17:41:43 <dustymabe> hopefully people are changing their mindset on how to run things inthe cloud
17:41:47 <jbrooks> dustymabe, But don't they install that stuff if they choose to?
17:41:56 <dustymabe> jbrooks: right
17:41:56 <roshi> fwiw, on places like DO, it's likely more pet than cattle - but on EC2? probably more cattle than pet
17:41:59 <dustymabe> but it's their choice
17:42:04 <dustymabe> we aren't deciding it for them
17:42:05 <roshi> though, 100% of my uses has been pet
17:42:18 <dustymabe> roshi: you don't host any services do you?
17:42:19 <kushal> roshi, DO is less of cloud, more of a great vps
17:42:25 <jbrooks> OK, so I don't see why proper cloud images aren't an offering of the server wg
17:42:28 <maxamillion> right, what roshi said
17:42:37 <maxamillion> similar if you s/DO/Linode/
17:42:41 <roshi> right, but we put our cloud image on DO
17:42:46 <roshi> or they do
17:42:48 <jzb> jbrooks: "proper"?
17:42:51 <jzb> jbrooks: what's proper?
17:42:51 <maxamillion> but they still claim to be clouds and have hourly pricing like other IaaS
17:42:51 <kushal> maxamillion, ^^^ yup, that is also VPS :)
17:42:59 <kushal> roshi, yes
17:43:02 <maxamillion> kushal: +1
17:43:17 <roshi> and with their API, I think you can do more "cloudy" things
17:43:24 <roshi> I just haven't
17:43:36 <jbrooks> jzb, OK, any cloud images?
17:43:38 <dustymabe> ok so let me make a statement
17:43:40 * roshi would argue that the server image should be on DO instead of the cloud
17:43:50 <roshi> (but that's a digression)
17:43:51 <kushal> roshi, that makes more sense
17:43:54 <dustymabe> it would be fine for the server group to produce a cloud version of a server image
17:43:59 <kushal> roshi, +1 in that
17:44:08 <roshi> and we could help them out with that if need be
17:44:09 <nzwulfin_> a lot of the use cases i'm seeing for "cattle" is taking a base source and turning it into something else not constantly using cloud-init to bring up custom every time
17:44:10 <dustymabe> but I don't think it should be put before the cloud minimal image we produce
17:44:29 <dustymabe> and it probably shouldn't be uploaded to a million different AZs in ec2
17:44:40 <dustymabe> it would be there for the users to create an AMI out of if they want to?
17:44:48 <dustymabe> and we could have simple docs for how to do that
17:44:55 <nzwulfin_> minimal (but not too minimal) would work for most of my cases
17:45:04 <jbrooks> I have this fundamental confusion over why the cloud wg is separate from the server wg
17:45:22 <jbrooks> When in the cloud is a very common place for servers to live
17:45:23 <maxamillion> wait, so the server group is going to start doing cloud stuff?
17:45:41 <dustymabe> maxamillion: yeah I think they are interested
17:45:43 <jzb> jbrooks: pets/cattle
17:45:50 <jzb> jbrooks: really simple as that
17:45:55 <jbrooks> That doesn't make sense to me
17:46:09 <kushal> jbrooks, that is how people look at the cloud.
17:46:10 <maxamillion> dustymabe: this is going to get very confusing for users and/or newcomers if we have many "cloud" products
17:46:19 <dustymabe> maxamillion: right
17:46:19 <maxamillion> dustymabe: especially if they come from different groups
17:46:23 <jbrooks> Well, ok, the idea is that we must have separate pet and cattle WGs
17:46:24 <adimania> kushal, jzb, I don't really buy the concept of cloud is cattle.
17:46:24 <kushal> maxamillion, ture
17:46:28 <jbrooks> For some reason
17:46:50 <adimania> I would say that the right answer is "it depends on the application".
17:47:05 <nzwulfin_> i think jbrooks is heading in the direction of mattdm's email
17:47:09 <jbrooks> It's like saying: "Fedora Server: Crap for the cloud, by design" or something
17:47:17 <jbrooks> Doesn't make sense
17:47:24 <adimania> for some use cases, cloud is cattle, for some it is not. We should be be deciding that for the users.
17:47:29 <nzwulfin_> that the original cloud wg product is much closer to a spin of Server than a full thing
17:47:40 <roshi> for everything but enterprise level stuff, cloud will seem the same as server, aiui
17:47:48 <jzb> I can point to several things that were different
17:47:48 <dustymabe> adimania: the nice thing about the minimal image is that you can make a pet out of it if you want
17:47:52 <jzb> e.g. firewall, cloud-init
17:47:56 <dustymabe> it's minimal like that to be molded
17:48:07 <jzb> minimal image
17:48:07 <kushal> dustymabe, yes
17:48:08 <dustymabe> so you can use it the right way.. or the wrong way
17:48:13 <jbrooks> I like to start my pets as minimal images
17:48:17 <dustymabe> but we aren't going to force it
17:48:19 <adimania> dustymabe, I would love a minimal image, regardless of who produces it.
17:48:26 <roshi> so you can spin up 10k of them at a time and decommission the same number simultaneously
17:48:28 <jzb> jbrooks: for example, server folks insist on a firewall
17:48:28 <dustymabe> adimania: :)
17:48:32 <kushal> adimania, not about who produces it.
17:48:37 <jzb> jbrooks: that makes zero sense on AWS
17:48:38 <maxamillion> dustymabe: right, but who decides what "right" and "wrong" is?
17:48:50 <dustymabe> maxamillion: it's arbitrary
17:48:50 <adimania> but I still won't think that all cloud is cattle.
17:48:52 <kushal> adimania, but more about being minimal and made for IAAS systems.
17:48:58 <jzb> a standard server image is not going to have cloud-init
17:49:00 <jbrooks> jzb, And disabling it calls for a whole other WG?
17:49:01 <dustymabe> which means making something that can be used in both ways works well
17:49:03 <maxamillion> dustymabe: right
17:49:04 <dustymabe> which is what we have done
17:49:14 <jzb> jbrooks: no I'm explaining where we diverge.
17:49:33 * linuxmodder late
17:49:33 <jzb> jbrooks: server WG has focused on roles that are traditionally "pets"
17:49:42 <jbrooks> jzb, I see that there are some differences, but I think they're trivial, and we're taking potential focus from atomic
17:49:44 <jzb> Rolekit is a major focus for server
17:49:58 <jbrooks> And we're saddling the server product w/ an unattractive, limiting scope
17:49:59 <jzb> previously that had taken the form of package sets for things like FreeIPA
17:50:14 <kushal> jzb, may be server wg can focus more on how to enable those roles on cloud images, and so on.
17:50:25 <jzb> kushal: except those roles don't make sense for cloud scale apps
17:50:35 <jzb> they're still targeting single-server profiles.
17:50:40 <kushal> jzb, I hope there will be some :)
17:50:41 <jbrooks> It is, for instance, a major "con" that the server wg doesn't offer a minimal image
17:50:48 <jbrooks> Their competitors do
17:51:04 <jzb> jbrooks: don't they have a netinstall?
17:51:16 <jbrooks> jzb, yeah, they do
17:51:44 <jzb> granted, their netinstall is pretty chubby
17:51:57 <jzb> 448MB 64-bit, 32-bit 510MB
17:52:06 <kushal> we need 5 minutes for the openspace, both /me and maxamillion have something to talk :)
17:52:15 <nzwulfin_> netinstall? which distro are you talking abuot?
17:52:15 <kushal> s/openspace/open floor
17:52:27 <maxamillion> jzb: how much of that is the systemd dep chain?
17:52:29 <dustymabe> ok so 3 more minutes on this
17:52:38 <maxamillion> jzb: not trolling, genuinely curious
17:52:40 <jzb> PROPOSED: we set up a meeting with server and discuss plans for F24 & F25
17:52:50 <jzb> maxamillion: unclear, I'm just looking at download size ATM
17:52:55 <maxamillion> jzb: fair
17:52:58 <maxamillion> jzb: +1
17:52:58 <jzb> we're not going to decide this her
17:53:00 <jzb> here
17:53:02 <roshi> jzb: sometime after F23 release
17:53:23 <jbrooks> If cloud wg is to start being about atomic, and server wg wants to start being more about cloud... then it makes sense to relocate the base cloud image to server wg, is my view
17:53:24 <jzb> side note
17:53:27 <roshi> should probably have council members there too, to weigh in on this
17:53:35 <jzb> right now we're still not paying enough attention to the docker image either
17:53:40 <jzb> it's way fatter than it needs to be.
17:53:53 <roshi> if atomic becomes the new WG, docker images will get more love
17:53:56 <roshi> I'm sure of that
17:53:56 <dustymabe> jbrooks: except the server wg hasn't really focused on cloud in the past
17:53:58 <jbrooks> +1
17:54:07 <jbrooks> It's a hole for them
17:54:22 <jzb> let's carry this discussion to the ML and then set up a post-F23 meeting with the right folks in the virtual room
17:54:24 <jbrooks> Who do they compete with, and what do those rivals offer?
17:54:25 <dustymabe> so they ask for it and we give it to them.. but we still care about it
17:54:33 <roshi> sounds good to me jzb
17:54:36 <dustymabe> and now there are people inthat WG that don't care about cloud at all
17:54:40 <jbrooks> We care about all the fedoras of the world
17:54:58 <roshi> #action after F23 GA, jzb to schedule a meeting between the groups for a strategy discussion
17:54:59 <jzb> #action jzb to start discuss thread on cloud/atomic/server wg stuff
17:55:08 <kushal> dustymabe, I still think base should be under this WG
17:55:14 <dustymabe> kushal: me 2
17:55:24 <dustymabe> I don't disagree that there could be an Atomic WG
17:55:30 <roshi> #topic Open Floor
17:55:32 <jbrooks> maybe that's what we need then
17:55:37 <kushal> maxamillion, go ahead
17:55:41 <roshi> sorry to cut it short there, but in the interest of time...
17:56:06 <maxamillion> I would like to request interested parties please review and offer feedback about the Layered Image Build Service's Functional Requirements, mattdm started a thread about it here: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/cloud/2015-October/005992.html
17:56:10 <maxamillion> that's all I had, thanks! :)
17:56:36 <kushal> we will be automatically filling bugs/tickets to trac any failed image from autocloud, this will be a separate service. We can do this on fedora cloud trac, but that will increase the number of emails to the list
17:56:44 <kushal> or we can trac the issues in pagure.
17:57:09 <kushal> Just wanted to know if people here have any preference.
17:58:00 <kushal> Anyone ^^
17:58:04 <kushal> Trac vs Pagure
17:58:13 <dustymabe> kushal: we would probably need to get notified one way of the other
17:58:14 * maxamillion votes pagure
17:58:16 <linuxmodder> still kinda hazy on the relationship between the separate bits  but  seems  atomic should have its own WG but  still work in concert with the  Server stuff as a whole
17:58:24 <maxamillion> but that's just personal preference and I'm fine with trac
17:58:29 <kushal> dustymabe, yup,
17:58:34 <kushal> maxamillion, I am also in for pagure
17:58:37 <dustymabe> so either way works
17:58:45 <dustymabe> can we get notifications with pagure
17:58:45 <kushal> cool, pagure that is :)
17:58:48 <linuxmodder> pagure seems  more  approriate to me
17:58:48 <kushal> dustymabe, Yes
17:58:48 <dustymabe> linuxmodder: yep
17:58:56 <dustymabe> ok sounds good
17:58:57 <maxamillion> pagure \o/
17:59:10 <sayan> I would go with pagure
17:59:22 <dustymabe> one item for open floor
17:59:23 <linuxmodder> as I understood it  pagure was for  atomic  things and  dev anyway no?
17:59:37 <kushal> linuxmodder, pagure.io
17:59:38 <linuxmodder> as a  'testbed' host
17:59:47 <dustymabe> if you want to test the fedora rc3 vagrant libvirt box then:
17:59:48 <kushal> linuxmodder, it is in production.
17:59:53 <dustymabe> vagrant init dustymabe/fedora; vagrant up --provider libvirt
17:59:56 <linuxmodder> yes I know i have  accessed it
18:00:03 <dustymabe> https://atlas.hashicorp.com/dustymabe/boxes/fedora/versions/23.RC3
18:00:35 <dustymabe> after release day we will get them into atlas under fedora namespace
18:00:40 <linuxmodder> kushal,  ah ok pls  pardon my seemingly  scattered knowledge of  correlations  still new to infra stuff
18:01:21 <kushal> linuxmodder, no problem.
18:01:26 <linuxmodder> the parts make sense the  'glue'  betwen them not so much yet
18:01:28 <kushal> dustymabe++
18:01:29 <zodbot> kushal: Karma for dustymabe changed to 2 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:01:40 * roshi sets the fuse
18:01:45 <roshi> since we're over time
18:01:54 <roshi> any discussion can continue in #fedora-cloud
18:01:55 <roshi> 3...
18:02:06 <roshi> thanks for coming folks - got a lot of moving parts here
18:02:09 <roshi> :)
18:02:10 <roshi> 2...
18:02:15 <kushal> roshi, thanks for running it :)
18:02:26 <dustymabe> roshi: thanks!
18:02:40 <roshi> np np
18:02:45 <roshi> 1...
18:02:48 <roshi> #endmeeting