17:02:09 <kushal> #startmeeting Fedora Cloud WG
17:02:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  9 17:02:09 2016 UTC.  The chair is kushal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_cloud_wg'
17:02:14 <kushal> #topic Roll Call
17:02:18 <smdeep> I too learnt from linuxmodder
17:02:20 <smdeep> :)
17:02:22 <linuxmodder> .hello corey84
17:02:23 <zodbot> linuxmodder: corey84 'Corey Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@gmail.com>
17:02:32 <smdeep> .hello smdeep
17:02:33 <zodbot> smdeep: smdeep 'Sudeep Mukherjee' <smdeep@gmail.com>
17:02:33 * linuxmodder in back row  learnign the cloud  stuff
17:02:34 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks
17:02:36 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:02:40 <trishnag> .hello trishnag
17:02:41 <zodbot> trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' <trishnaguha17@gmail.com>
17:02:52 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:02:53 <nzwulfin> .hello mmicene
17:02:54 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:02:56 <zodbot> nzwulfin: mmicene 'Matt Micene' <nzwulfin@gmail.com>
17:03:04 <bexelbie> .hello bex
17:03:05 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
17:03:05 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
17:03:08 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:03:13 <nb> .hello nb
17:03:14 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
17:03:41 <kushal> nb, bexelbie welcome ;)
17:03:57 <bexelbie> are you sure we aren't the same person? I am using nb's bouncer :P
17:04:03 <nb> :)
17:04:13 <kushal> #chair linuxmodder smdeep jbrooks trishnag nzwulfin bexelbie dustymabe
17:04:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie dustymabe jbrooks kushal linuxmodder nzwulfin smdeep trishnag
17:04:20 <kushal> Am I missing anyone?
17:04:24 <jzb> .hellomynameis jzb
17:04:24 <zodbot> jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' <jzb@redhat.com>
17:04:26 <chandankumar> .hello chandankumar
17:04:27 <jzb> howdy all
17:04:28 <zodbot> chandankumar: chandankumar 'Chandan Kumar' <chkumar246@gmail.com>
17:04:31 <kushal> #chair jzb chandankumar
17:04:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder nzwulfin smdeep trishnag
17:04:49 <kushal> jzb, hello
17:04:51 <nb> missed me, but i'm not a member so maybe that was on purpose
17:05:22 <nb> bexelbie, shh no one can tell we are the same person, since we have different cloaks :)
17:05:33 <dustymabe> #chair nb
17:05:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder nb nzwulfin smdeep trishnag
17:05:34 <kushal> #chair nb
17:05:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder nb nzwulfin smdeep trishnag
17:05:39 <bexelbie> nb, I forgot about our super poewrs
17:05:54 <kushal> nb, it was just a miss.
17:06:02 <nb> oh ok
17:06:24 <kushal> #topic Action items from last meeting
17:06:29 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:06:29 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:06:42 <kushal> * maxamillion will write a SOP for 2WA release
17:06:42 <kushal> * kushal to release an updated Cloud image with help from everyone :)
17:06:42 <kushal> * maxamillion will update #147
17:07:09 <kushal> There was some random failures in the images last week (on the vagrant image particularly), but all seems good today.
17:07:10 <dustymabe> #chair rtnpro
17:07:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder nb nzwulfin rtnpro smdeep trishnag
17:07:38 <kushal> I will have to find out corresponding AMI ids, and then ask the website/rel-eng team for the release.
17:08:55 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:08:56 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:08:57 <kushal> Here he is
17:08:59 <kushal> #chair maxamillion
17:08:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder maxamillion nb nzwulfin rtnpro smdeep trishnag
17:09:04 <dustymabe> maxamillion: here were items from last meeting:
17:09:07 <maxamillion> sorry I'm tardy ... trying to get Layered Image Build Service issues resolved
17:09:10 <dustymabe> * maxamillion will write a SOP for 2WA release
17:09:15 <kushal> maxamillion, no problem :)
17:09:15 <dustymabe> * kushal to release an updated Cloud image with help from everyone :)
17:09:19 <dustymabe> * maxamillion will update #147
17:09:47 <maxamillion> I updated 147, totally failed to write SOP for 2WA .... been lost in the depths of layered image stuff
17:09:56 <kushal> maxamillion, so just adding it again?
17:09:59 <maxamillion> it's still on my TODO list though
17:10:03 <maxamillion> kushal: adding what?
17:10:10 <kushal> maxamillion, the action item.
17:10:43 <maxamillion> oh yeah
17:10:56 <kushal> #action  maxamillion will write a SOP for 2WA release
17:11:22 <kushal> #action  kushal to release an updated Cloud image based on 2016-03-09 F23 compose
17:11:30 <dustymabe> kushal++
17:11:33 <zodbot> dustymabe: Karma for kushal changed to 9 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:11:42 <kushal> Moving to tickets.
17:11:48 <jzb> (Why is zodbot still on f23 release cycle?)
17:11:51 <dustymabe> kushal: when do we expect that to happen?
17:11:52 <kushal> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/report/9
17:11:58 <kushal> jzb, it always is iirc :)
17:12:06 <kushal> dustymabe, hopefully by tomorrow.
17:12:15 <dustymabe> kushal: ok, should we prepare a blog post about it?
17:12:24 <dustymabe> and put in Fedora Mag
17:12:27 <kushal> dustymabe, yes.
17:12:33 <jzb> Imma suggest we start with Cloud FAD
17:12:42 <jzb> skimming the tickets that seems to be the most important thing
17:12:50 <kushal> jzb, yes, first ticket anyway
17:13:05 <kushal> #topic Fedora Cloud FAD (late 2015/early 2016) https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/115
17:13:14 * roshi lurks
17:13:16 <maxamillion> +1
17:13:30 <kushal> I will have to convert maxamillion's suggestions.
17:13:34 <kushal> Not yet done.
17:13:36 <maxamillion> kushal: ?
17:13:44 <kushal> maxamillion, in the wiki page.
17:14:10 <kushal> So that we have the goals set properly.
17:14:16 <maxamillion> kushal: I'm not sure that I follow, what do you mean by "maxamillion's suggestions"?
17:14:21 <kushal> I will have to add my travel details too.
17:14:27 <dustymabe> maxamillion: maybe he meant my suggestsion?
17:14:33 <kushal> maxamillion, dustymabe yes, sorry.
17:14:40 <dustymabe> I did a brain dump in the wiki page
17:14:40 <maxamillion> I don't recall adding any suggestion(s)
17:14:43 <kushal> It was dustymabe.
17:14:47 <maxamillion> ohhhh ok
17:14:47 <dustymabe> not very clear or formatted, but just some ideas
17:14:49 <maxamillion> rgr
17:14:50 <kushal> maxamillion, Yes, my fault.
17:14:57 <kushal> dustymabe, I will convert in full points.
17:14:58 <maxamillion> kushal: no worries, I was just really confused :)
17:15:12 <kushal> May be I am just sleepy.
17:15:13 <kushal> :)
17:15:19 <kushal> jzb, anything you want to add?
17:15:55 <jzb> just we need to get any budget request in front of council sooner than later
17:16:06 <jzb> I am looking at the page, are we all agreed on deliverables?
17:16:11 <jzb> and is that the full scope?
17:16:22 <bexelbie> should docs and where we want to encourage users to explore be part of this FAD?
17:16:28 <kushal> jzb, I will have to add the point for docs
17:17:09 <kushal> bexelbie, we should, but we will not be able to provide fund for everyone.
17:17:23 <bexelbie> kushal, it isn't a question of more people, imho, but setting objectives
17:17:46 <bexelbie> docs will almost surely not be able to be written during the FAD
17:17:47 <kushal> bexelbie, docs is important, and I am yet to add that.
17:17:54 <linuxmodder> sc/me back
17:18:15 <kushal> bexelbie, but we should discuss the end results we want for our cloud users.
17:18:34 <linuxmodder> bexelbie,   got  ideas for a pre-fad article  docs &  or  commops  could likely  throw that  out
17:18:39 <kushal> Every day we do not have enough docs for Fedora Atomic, every day some other distro wins.
17:18:56 <bexelbie> 100% agree
17:19:07 <bexelbie> we are talking a bit more on the atomic-devel list about that ...
17:19:24 <jbrooks> do we have a list of needed docs?
17:19:29 <nzwulfin> /win 2
17:19:29 <linuxmodder> kushal,   if someone wants to start a draft copy I can surely  proof / add to and  push for  commops  posting
17:19:51 <kushal> nzwulfin, hi irssi user :p
17:20:00 <bexelbie> perhaps we could focus docs this way - we have goals for what we think FAH solves - so lets get those known and then collab upstream on the actual docs
17:20:01 <nzwulfin> kushal: yeah sorry :)
17:20:05 <kushal> bexelbie, I saw it, I will reply :)
17:20:10 <jzb> jbrooks: 3 node run guide, Cockpit + Atomic runbook, and OpenShift + Atomic runbook
17:20:13 <kushal> nzwulfin, no problem, just joking :)
17:20:30 <jzb> that would be a good start
17:20:41 <jzb> three runbooks for our suggested use cases.
17:20:45 <kushal> jbrooks, Practical production ready things which people can deploy.
17:21:14 <linuxmodder> mattdm,  kushal could you point me  toward a  draft  outline for  cockpit ?
17:21:25 <linuxmodder> I could  start on that whis week /weekend most likely
17:21:25 <tflink> what's a runbook?
17:21:33 <linuxmodder> ansible mostly
17:21:37 <jbrooks> Right, and are we tracking these in trac or github, or bugzilla?
17:21:44 <linuxmodder> akin to a playbook in footbal
17:21:50 <kushal> linuxmodder, I am not the right person for that.
17:22:01 <kushal> I thought we call them playbook only.
17:22:13 <linuxmodder> mattdm,  cockpit is your baby so let me know what oyu wanna  showcase pls
17:22:17 <maxamillion> what's a runbook?
17:22:43 <maxamillion> tflink asked but it wasn't answered, I am also not familiar ... was hoping for clarification
17:22:45 <bexelbie> playbook will confuse with ansible
17:22:55 <linuxmodder> cronjob +ansible is  how i understood it
17:23:02 <bexelbie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runbook
17:23:25 <maxamillion> alright
17:23:28 <mattdm> linuxmodder: it's really stefw's baby. I just like it :)
17:23:51 <linuxmodder> from LISA I'd swore it was your  baby :)
17:24:07 <stefw> heh heh
17:24:09 <kushal> bexelbie, jbrooks we can provide direct ansible playbooks which our users can use to deploy.
17:24:15 <stefw> actually now we have a cockpit kubernetes UI container
17:24:23 <bexelbie> kushal, I see no reason not too
17:24:26 <jzb> tflink: documentation to get someone up and running
17:24:27 <stefw> that actually runs in kubernetes or openshift
17:24:30 <stefw> but we need a script to get it running
17:24:31 <jzb> tflink: how to run something
17:24:35 <linuxmodder> stefw ,   feel free to  ping or  email me   showcse items
17:24:44 <tflink> jzb: thanks
17:24:44 <jbrooks> kushal, I use ansible for bringing up my clusters now
17:24:46 <stefw> or some sorta easy way to get it started
17:24:53 <bexelbie> stefw, could we launch it with atomic CLI?
17:24:56 <stefw> linuxmodder, sure, maybe tomorrow
17:25:03 <kushal> jbrooks, I remember, and I will ping you about the same after the meeting
17:25:04 <stefw> bexelbie, i've thought about that
17:25:06 <linuxmodder> stefw,   would a  quick start guide style article  work?
17:25:09 <nzwulfin> kushal: we shouldn't mix documentation with deployment scripts
17:25:14 <stefw> bexelbie, it would basically be a container that does nothing but launch another container
17:25:17 <jzb> tflink: random example https://docs.jivesoftware.com/jive_sbs/3.0.7/admin/Runbook_Linux.pdf
17:25:20 <kushal> anyway, let us come back to point
17:25:24 <stefw> i guess that's what atomicapp does
17:25:24 <kushal> FAD
17:25:27 <bexelbie> stefw, that is what atomic app is :)
17:25:31 <stefw> so maybe that's the good place to start
17:25:41 <kushal> nzwulfin, True, I am just asking for things which can help our users.
17:25:50 <bexelbie> stefw, I'd need to see what you are doing, but a RUN label would seem to do the trick .. assuming existing k8s
17:26:07 <kushal> Can we please come back to our FAD discussion?
17:26:12 <kushal> #chair stefw mattdm
17:26:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder mattdm maxamillion nb nzwulfin rtnpro smdeep stefw trishnag
17:26:19 <kushal> #chair tflink
17:26:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie chandankumar dustymabe jbrooks jzb kushal linuxmodder mattdm maxamillion nb nzwulfin rtnpro smdeep stefw tflink trishnag
17:26:22 * stefw has to runaway
17:26:33 <bexelbie> stefw, you mean atomic runaway stefw
17:26:42 <stefw> sudo atomic runaway stefw
17:26:47 <gholms> Heh
17:27:07 <maxamillion> how does the current line of discussion pertain to the FAD planning?
17:27:19 <kushal> maxamillion, no clue :(
17:27:21 <maxamillion> I think I missed something or a transition somewhere
17:27:28 <kushal> Can we please come back to our FAD discussion?
17:27:29 <maxamillion> kushal: alright
17:27:36 <bexelbie> kushal, sounds like the fad wiki could collect doc ideas for vetting in June?
17:28:11 <kushal> So, I will update the wiki page tomorrow, after that we still have to figure out staying and travel details
17:28:18 <kushal> as the money will be dependent on that.
17:29:08 <kushal> So everyone please start thinking about the travel plan.
17:29:56 <tflink> are you looking for participation from outside groups for this?
17:30:56 <kushal> tflink, yes, though depending on the how much they want to help us (the WG).
17:32:06 <kushal> Moving to next ticket?
17:33:02 <kushal> #topic Proposals for F24 features https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/143
17:33:30 <kushal> Change owners, please share your knowledge :)
17:34:08 <kushal> nzwulfin, rtnpro ?
17:34:37 * rtnpro looks up
17:35:07 <nzwulfin> i think we're down to testing for acceptance?
17:35:51 <rtnpro> kushal, right now, I am working on building a F23 cloud image by patching the motd related changes in the ks file
17:35:57 <nzwulfin> getting some repeated "containerize it" comments, but none of the prework is done yet to do so
17:36:14 <rtnpro> kushal, apart from that, I have no blocker
17:36:34 <kushal> nzwulfin, rtnpro Thanks for the updates, feel free to write these up in the ticket.
17:36:43 <rtnpro> kushal, I will
17:37:35 <kushal> Moving next
17:37:47 <kushal> #topic Container "Packager" Guildelines and Naming Conventions https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/148
17:38:21 <kushal> maxamillion, I guess you go ahead with the docs
17:38:32 <maxamillion> kushal: alright
17:39:00 <kushal> maxamillion, no one else commented, so I think it is fine.
17:39:09 <jzb> maxamillion: we might get more eyeballs if we declare what we have alpha and post about them on Project Atomic
17:40:53 <maxamillion> jzb: that's fine, I need to make a few updates as I find time but then that'd be alright
17:42:45 <kushal> #topic Docker container refresh cadence https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/150
17:42:54 <kushal> mattdm, anything you want to say?
17:43:41 <mattdm> kushal: amanda summarized my points I think :)
17:44:04 <mattdm> maxamillion complained that this is wishy-washy and I want things both ways
17:44:08 <mattdm> This is a fair complaint :)
17:44:14 <kushal> :)
17:44:24 <maxamillion> correct, I did do that
17:45:38 <kushal> 2 weeks is okay, but we surely need way more automation for that.
17:45:53 <maxamillion> the problem with the docker base image in the hub is it can not be automated
17:46:14 <maxamillion> someone has to open a pull request against the docker library official images
17:46:59 <kushal> maxamillion, Yes, dgilmore complained many times about how broken the tooling on the other side is.
17:47:27 <jzb> maxamillion: aside from manually opening a pull request - is there much more to the process?
17:47:27 <kushal> When are we expecting our own registry?
17:47:34 <maxamillion> eh, I don't know that it's broken so much as "not automation friendly"
17:48:12 <maxamillion> jzb: yes, currently you have to morph into the format they want which is manual (we might be able to automate this one), information here: https://github.com/fedora-cloud/docker-brew-fedora/blob/master/README.md
17:48:33 <jzb> maxamillion: thanks
17:49:03 <maxamillion> it takes normally about 10 to 20 minutes to get everything updated ... not a big deal it's still a manual process that requires a mental context switch if you're working on something else
17:49:23 <jzb> maxamillion: but it's kind of scripted and something that doesn't require tons of eng talent, yes?
17:49:38 <maxamillion> jzb: mind you it's ugly because we constantly overwrite history so that we're not carrying a bunch of multi-hundred MB tarballs in git history
17:50:21 <maxamillion> jzb: yeah, for the most part ... however, we should really have some validation testing steps to go in there ... right now we literally just do a local build, fire up an instance of the image and make sure we can dnf install something
17:51:05 <maxamillion> it could be a simple bash script or something, we just need to actually write it down and know what all we want to test to call the base image "good enough"
17:52:33 <kushal> maxamillion, do you know when are we expecting our own registry?
17:52:33 <jzb> OK
17:52:52 <jzb> maxamillion: my travel schedule is much lighter this year, so if I can lend a hand in doing this lemme know
17:53:08 <jzb> (loosely translated, this doesn't look like it would overwhelm my limited technical skills...)
17:53:35 <maxamillion> kushal: our own registry will only be for layered images and the rawhide base image ... we're not currently planning to try and replace the docker hub, that is the canonical source that all docker users go to
17:54:23 <maxamillion> jzb: we just added puiterwijk to the mix of docker base image maintainers so it's not just me anymore ... which is good, but we can add others as time goes on and we feel like it's needed
17:54:25 <kushal> maxamillion, Okay, but may be we can provide the image base image there too, but that can also be confusing.
17:54:52 <jzb> maxamillion: I'm happy to be added as well.
17:55:04 <jzb> will think about testing too
17:55:44 <kushal> Moving to open floor.
17:55:49 <kushal> #topic Open Floor
17:55:54 <maxamillion> kushal: we'll need to sort out permissions for that ... right now the ability to push to our docker hub requires access to a cert
17:56:02 <kushal> maxamillion, Okay.
17:56:03 <maxamillion> kushal: which only OSBS has
17:56:11 <jzb> quick comment
17:56:18 <jzb> I'm working on talking points for F24
17:56:37 <jzb> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_24_talking_points
17:56:44 <kushal> I will be in Singapore next week, means the meeting will be at 1am local time, can anyone please volunteer to run it next week?
17:56:49 <jzb> I'm not done with Cloud but if anybody else has stuff, feel free to chip in.
17:57:07 <maxamillion> jzb: +1
17:57:07 <kushal> jzb, I will add things to that page.
17:58:03 <kushal> Can someone please volunteer for the next week's meeting?
17:58:21 <jzb> kushal: I will be at Great Wide Open in ATL I don't know if I can commit. Sorry. :-/
17:58:29 <kushal> dustymabe, maxamillion ?
17:58:31 <dustymabe> kushal: and I'll be in AMS
17:58:35 <dustymabe> for meetings
17:58:35 <kushal> hehe
17:58:40 <dustymabe> I'll try to attend
17:58:44 <dustymabe> but can't promise
17:58:55 <kushal> Okay, thanks.
17:59:05 <maxamillion> I'll run it
17:59:16 <kushal> also I think I need help with the cloud base image release work, too tired to think that clearly now
17:59:19 <kushal> maxamillion, thank you :)
17:59:28 <maxamillion> wait, going back ... what was the decision on the docker base image release cycle?
17:59:42 <bexelbie> kushal, what kind of help do you need?
17:59:53 <kushal> maxamillion, let us call for a vote on the ticket, for 2 weeks.
18:00:28 <kushal> bexelbie, someone needs to talk to rel-eng and website team to get every link updated, and anything else also if required from rel-eng team.
18:01:02 <maxamillion> kushal: alright
18:01:06 <bexelbie> kushal, can we talk briefly after the meeting about details so I can determine if I can make this commitment
18:01:08 <bexelbie> ?
18:01:25 <kushal> bexelbie, Okay, even I never did this before.
18:01:32 <kushal> maxamillion, did it for 2 week atomic.
18:01:39 <bexelbie> kushal, :)
18:01:43 <kushal> Time is up, ending in 5
18:01:47 <kushal> 4
18:01:49 <kushal> 3
18:01:51 <kushal> 2
18:01:52 <kushal> 1
18:01:56 <kushal> #endmeeting