17:03:44 #startmeeting Fedora Cloud Working Group 17:03:44 Meeting started Wed Apr 13 17:03:44 2016 UTC. The chair is jzb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:03:44 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:03:44 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_cloud_working_group' 17:03:56 jzb++ 17:03:59 #chair jberkus dustymabe 17:03:59 Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus jzb 17:04:02 .hellomynameis dustymabe 17:04:03 dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' 17:04:08 who else be here for the meeting? 17:04:08 .hello jberkus 17:04:09 jberkus: jberkus 'Josh Berkus' 17:04:09 .hello jasonbrooks 17:04:12 jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' 17:04:17 .hello trishnag 17:04:18 trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' 17:04:28 .hello tflink 17:04:28 tflink: tflink 'Tim Flink' 17:04:48 .fas rtnpro 17:04:49 rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' 17:04:56 tflink: I need your travel budget info for the FAD 17:04:58 .hello scollier 17:04:59 scollier: scollier 'Scott Collier' 17:05:00 .hellomynameis jzb 17:05:02 .hello goern 17:05:05 jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' 17:05:08 goern][: goern 'Christoph Görn' 17:05:18 jberkus: what else do you need other than what i put on the wiki page? 17:05:20 #chair goern][ tflink scollier trishnag 17:05:20 Current chairs: dustymabe goern][ jberkus jzb scollier tflink trishnag 17:05:27 #chair jberkus 17:05:27 Current chairs: dustymabe goern][ jberkus jzb scollier tflink trishnag 17:05:29 dammit 17:05:34 #chair jbrooks 17:05:34 Current chairs: dustymabe goern][ jberkus jbrooks jzb scollier tflink trishnag 17:05:40 way too many "JBs" floating around 17:05:58 did I miss anybody? 17:06:14 jzb, suggested topic: Origin on Fedora if we have time towards the end. 17:06:49 .hello mmicene 17:06:50 nzwulfin: mmicene 'Matt Micene' 17:06:51 ok 17:07:07 scollier: I'm game to put that up front 17:07:11 any objections? 17:07:16 .hello pryanka 17:07:17 pryanka: pryanka 'Pryanka Giri' 17:07:26 jzb, none from me. just didn't want to hijack. 17:07:27 * jzb feels the normal "go through the tickets that we talk about every week" may be of limited value 17:07:37 really? 17:07:37 #chair pryanka 17:07:37 Current chairs: dustymabe goern][ jberkus jbrooks jzb pryanka scollier tflink trishnag 17:08:08 jberkus: a lot of the tickets... linger 17:08:09 :-) 17:08:13 yah 17:08:21 also I wasn't *planning* on chairing 17:08:22 well, a bunch of them are really long-term projects 17:08:24 so I don't have trac up 17:08:25 so 17:08:30 me neither 17:08:31 #topic Origin on Fedora 17:08:45 scollier: your floor 17:09:02 ok, to set some context, we've been discussing having a deployment of Origin on Fedora for a while now, few months. 17:09:06 tflink: your travel costs. they're not on the wiki page 17:09:19 jberkus: yes, they are 17:09:23 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Cloud_WG_2016 17:09:39 or confirmation you're remote 17:09:44 we are at the point now where we'd like to discuss this openly to make sure we get feedback on the approach, and have next steps ironed out. 17:09:57 scollier: who is we exactly? 17:10:08 scollier: do we know if there's any movement on the Infra Cloud requirement? 17:10:15 scollier: and what is Origin? Just a URL is fine. 17:10:21 scollier: IIRC puiterwijk was wanting to hold off until there was an upgrade in place. 17:10:32 bcl: OpenShift Origin 17:10:34 we (mattdm, paul frields, fedora infra team, etc..) 17:10:44 jzb: thanks 17:10:50 scollier: ok.. just wanted to understand 17:11:11 so, we had a kickoff meeting and decided to launch origin on fedora openstack cloud. 17:11:32 puiterwijk: what's the status on upgrading the Fedora Cloud? 17:11:36 the goal here is to provide a separate instance of origin that this cloud sig can use. 17:11:44 limited participation at first. 17:11:51 .hello maxamillion 17:11:52 maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' 17:11:55 sorry I'm late 17:12:08 it's separate from the OSBS that maxamillion is working on, separate from OpenShift online. 17:12:22 jzb: I've managed to set it up without any help of help tools like packstack finally, so getting ready to go production with it. But this origin thing wasn't waiting for that 17:12:43 maxamillion: I need your travel estimates for Cloud FAD ASAP 17:12:49 puiterwijk: I must have misunderstood - I thought we wanted to hold off for the upgrade. 17:13:03 speaking of, I need to get origin 1.1.6 built for Fedora 17:13:06 so the next steps, AIUI, puiterwijk, correct me here, is to get this deployment underway. 17:13:10 jzb: No, I have been working on it with Michael. 17:13:13 scollier: correct. 17:13:29 jberkus: are we still doing it in NC? I thought that was still a cause for concern 17:13:43 after it's deployed, we'll need to admin this thing, learn the day 2 ops that are needed here. 17:13:43 jberkus: also, does my travel need to include hotel or is that being booked separate and I just need to get myself there? 17:13:53 etc... 17:14:07 jzb, so, that's where we are, i'd like to take questions on this. 17:14:10 maxamillion: it should include hotel 17:14:22 maxamillion: yeah, I need to get email out about NC 17:14:32 anybody have questions? 17:14:36 maxamillion: I discussed it with Fedora's new Diversity Advisor 17:14:43 I can ask the first q. puiterwijk, can you provide an update as to where we are? 17:14:44 (I doubt it, Fedorans usually aren't an inquisitive bunch...) 17:14:55 jberkus: are there any plans to car pool from the airport or is everyone on their own? 17:14:57 jzb, heh. 17:15:04 maxamillion: depends on when people arrive 17:15:20 if several of us arrive at once, sure 17:15:27 jberkus: it would alter my travel estimate is why I'm asking 17:15:34 but let's estimate for the worst case 17:15:35 dustymabe, bcl, etc... Do y'all think you would take advantage of an instance like this? 17:15:38 scollier: we have some idea of how we're going to deploy it, but were still reading documentation on available registry types and what's the best one to use, and sortalike things. 17:15:41 to test deploying k8s apps? 17:15:46 lyft from airport is around $25 17:15:47 jberkus: alright 17:15:53 jberkus: good to know 17:16:08 maxamillion, jberkus we're crossing the streams a bit here 17:16:14 sorry 17:16:14 jzb: yeah, sorry 17:16:15 puiterwijk, ack. i'm happy to participate in those conversations, and I'm sure jason d. is as well. 17:16:18 back on topic 17:16:25 scollier: also, we weren't sure about which ansible stuff to use, but I think we were going with building everything ourselves, since the upstream openshift stuff is not always stable, and massive. 17:16:26 scollier: "instance like this" like what? 17:16:49 scollier: in my personal life I don't "yet" run that many things in openshift/kube 17:16:51 jberkus, a fedora managed instance of openshift origin. that you would auth to based of your FAS account, and launch apps for testing. 17:17:01 scollier: I woudl use it all the time 17:17:03 personally 17:17:05 but in $dayjob I do, so I could find it useful for that 17:17:06 scollier: that might be a good idea, to have you guys in those conversations, as you might have a better idea as to what's a good deployment. So when I work on it with Michael next, I'll let you know 17:17:09 jberkus, +1 17:17:10 not sure about anyone else 17:17:47 jberkus: it would be "best effort, unpaged" support, and data may be lost at any time 17:17:48 jberkus, i would love to finally create a library of k8s json app files that people could test, provide feedback, improve upon, etc.. 17:17:49 I would use it 17:17:51 (that's what we agreed on) 17:17:55 jbrooks, +1 17:18:08 puiterwijk, ack. 17:18:12 that's fine, I would use it to test my demoware 17:18:13 puiterwijk: well, the idea is to use upstream stuff (at least what's released as "stable") for Origin to find out when things break 17:18:17 goern][, any feedback? 17:18:18 Once openshift online is upgraded, I might use that instead, if that worked better 17:18:19 puiterwijk, scollierhave you guys talked about integrating that origin env into monitoring? 17:18:24 instead of racking up a huge AWS bill, which is what I'm currently doing 17:18:24 I'm not sure that extends to Ansible scripts or not. 17:18:27 Or I could use both 17:18:33 jberkus: "huge"? 17:18:37 jberkus: o.O 17:18:38 damned, that looked like a scripted question :) 17:18:47 jberkus, ack. i feel your pain. 17:18:53 jzb: the problem is that the upstream ansible playbooks seem untested. And as said, they're very huge, so I wouldn't be able to easily debug them... 17:19:10 puiterwijk: if you build something custom as long as we make it available 17:19:20 puiterwijk, i think we should test with openshift-on-openstack, if you want to use heat to deploy. 17:19:21 puiterwijk, they are not untested, most of the e2e team guys use them daily 17:19:24 goern][: I would now put it in monitoring as paged service. As said, we agreed on it being unpaged, "best effort" support 17:19:24 puiterwijk: I would hope when we get to "production" we also have a runbook for others to replicate 17:19:35 they also have valuable info for general integration (networking, auth, storage) 17:19:36 puiterwijk, ack 17:19:37 jzb: all our ansible sutff is public 17:19:48 puiterwijk: I figured :-) 17:19:51 scollier: we don't have Heat (yet). We might have that i nthe next release, but not sure yet 17:19:59 jzb: https://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/ 17:20:06 puiterwijk, https://github.com/redhat-openstack/openshift-on-openstack 17:20:14 scollier: I mean we don't have that deployed in our setup of openstack 17:20:22 puiterwijk, even if not using heat, the correct configuration / integration tips are in there. 17:20:29 for a good reference point. 17:20:37 Okay. 17:20:41 scollier: we probably need/want a Wiki page for this? 17:20:47 puiterwijk, but, they are a tad bit complex... so prepare to set aside an evening... 17:21:02 puiterwijk, i could also hook you up with someone to bootstrap you through the process. 17:21:11 jzb, care to create an action for that? 17:21:12 scollier, puiterwijk and will we reuse fedora-infra osbs/registry or will that be a sep on for the fedora origin env? 17:21:28 scollier: that would be great. As you've noticed last time, I've spent a long time on all of this without much luck so far 17:21:38 puiterwijk, i will arrange then. 17:21:41 #action jzb create Wiki page for OpenShift work 17:21:50 goern][, there is no integration here that I am aware of /cc puiterwijk 17:22:01 goern][, we'll need to stand up and manage our own registry. 17:22:03 wait, wait ... what are we doing with the fedora registry? 17:22:03 goern][: it would be different. 17:22:09 maxamillion: nothing 17:22:11 maxamillion, nothin 17:22:11 ok 17:22:15 :) 17:22:16 maxamillion: I'm just telling them it's all separate :) 17:22:20 * maxamillion puts down the blood pressure meds 17:22:27 maxamillion, that was funny. 17:22:37 goern][: as said: this is a totally separate instance, and not in any form supported. 17:22:50 * jzb picks up maxamillion's blood pressure meds 17:23:04 * puiterwijk notes that our entire openstack cluster is "best effort" support, with currently only me running and maintaining it all, myself. 17:23:19 scollier: I wish it was, I have to date literally come to tears over OSBS more than once 17:23:21 puiterwijk, can you help us understand how we can help admin this thing? 17:23:28 maxamillion, :( 17:23:37 scollier: things are better now though :) 17:23:39 puiterwijk, or will y'all take complete ownership? 17:23:39 puiterwijk, is that where copr runs? 17:23:45 jbrooks: it is 17:23:51 jbrooks: so COPR is also "best effort, unsupported" 17:24:03 Hmm. I really love copr 17:24:17 scollier: I have complete ownership so far of our openstack setup, but once we get it all setup I will document administration for the openshift stuff 17:24:26 /me lurks 17:24:32 jbrooks: I know unfortunately, but I currently can't give any SLA yet. 17:24:33 jzb, so, the point of bringing this up is, i think we should start tracking it here during the meetings too, standard topic. 17:24:34 jzb will that wiki page also contain something like a service description? so that users understand what we offer to them? 17:24:43 puiterwijk, excellent. 17:25:10 Although I'm now getting a lot more confidence in my knowledge about openstack since my home network is running on Neutron and all, so we *might* (no promises here!!!) bump the cloud's support level 17:25:13 goern][, with the understanding that up front, "users = cloud sig members" 17:25:24 goern][, not entire fedora user base. 17:25:27 goern][: if a user doesn't understand they're not in scope :-) 17:25:34 scollier, thats one of the questions to answer on the wiki page 17:25:42 jzb, :) ok 17:25:44 but sure 17:25:53 anything else? 17:25:58 (for today) 17:26:04 jzb, once the wiki page is created, i'm sure puiterwijk, goern][, i and others can help fill out. 17:26:15 scollier: I will create the wiki page, any other action items I'm missing ATM? 17:26:17 jzb, nada else from me. thanks. 17:26:26 groovy 17:26:27 OK 17:26:29 jzb, puiterwijk, where is this work being tracked? 17:26:38 scollier: I trusted you 17:26:38 which trac system / space? 17:26:39 :-) 17:26:43 jzb: please make very sure to include a banner on the support levle. I don't want a COPR2, where people get angry/annoyed if it's down. 17:26:54 puiterwijk: OK 17:27:10 scollier: I have not seen a ticket for it anywhere. Perhaps cloud sig trac would be a good one for you guys to create a ticket in? 17:27:12 puiterwijk, tracking in fed infra wiki ? 17:27:21 jzb, there's an action item. 17:27:26 puiterwijk, ok 17:27:43 puiterwijk: well, does it make more sense to track things in cloud tracker or infra? If much of the work is infra? 17:27:49 * jzb wishes we had a unified project tracker. 17:28:09 jzb, puiterwijk, maybe the deployment is tracked in infra 17:28:17 jzb: well, this is so far not really lead by Fedora Infra, but me and Michael and you guys. So I\'d say it has more to do with cloud sig 17:28:20 everything related post deploy, on Origin, is in cloud sig? 17:28:25 puiterwijk: OK 17:28:27 I'm easy 17:28:28 puiterwijk, ok 17:28:36 jzb, either is fine with me. 17:28:42 let's just trac :) 17:28:51 a'ight 17:28:53 moving on 17:28:58 #topic last week's actions 17:28:58 FAD 17:29:02 oh, ok 17:29:33 jberkus: ticket 125 "update Fedora-Dockerfiles example for Kubernetes" 17:29:35 any movement there? 17:29:43 nope, haven't had time 17:29:52 OK 17:30:04 #action jberkus to update Fedora-Dockerfiles examples for Kubernetes (ticket #125) 17:30:21 I don't see imcleod about today 17:30:29 so I will just carry those forward 17:30:38 #action imcleod wrangle karma for Factory updates (Ticket 131) 17:30:47 #action imcleod take ticket 136 on vagrant file fixups 17:30:52 also no Kushal 17:31:08 #action kushal to drop a mail to the list after creating a ticket for new base image release for f23 17:31:22 rtnpro: you had an action to submit a PR to the fedora-atomic repo? 17:31:36 jzb, I did that 17:32:01 jzb, https://pagure.io/fedora-atomic/pull-request/1 17:32:13 rtnpro: wooo! 17:32:30 jzb, I'd have done for the spin-kickstarts repo as well if it were there on pagure 17:32:48 rtnpro: but not merged yet? 17:33:02 dustymabe, yes, some one needs to merge it 17:33:14 I think walters can do? 17:33:18 rtnpro: did you address all of walters concerns ? 17:33:23 with fedora-motd? 17:33:48 dustymabe, I will be pushing the updates tomorrow and update the RPM package 17:34:05 ok. cool 17:34:17 anyone think we should move spin-kickstarts to pagure ? 17:34:19 :) 17:34:26 dustymabe: where is it now? 17:34:28 that's really up to releng 17:34:56 whatever the old space is https://git.fedorahosted.org/git/spin-kickstarts.git 17:35:36 ah 17:35:46 yeah anybody want to take an action to check with releng on that? 17:35:52 also I think Colin maintains that? 17:36:02 so we should check to make sure nobody is going to be unpleasantly surprised if it moves. 17:36:02 spin kickstarts? 17:36:09 dustymabe: I thought? 17:36:18 I figured it was releng 17:36:19 dustymabe: I thought Colin did a lot on that. 17:36:24 dustymabe: I know releng consumes it. 17:36:33 I thought nirik sent an email at some point about moving spin-kickstarts to pagure ... maybe not 17:36:35 he does.. but only because he has interest in fixing things up sometimes 17:36:40 yes, I did. 17:36:47 nirik++ 17:36:48 afaik releng doesn't admin the spin-kickstarts stuff, it has it's own FAS group 17:36:51 OK 17:36:51 that would be great 17:36:53 I still intend to if I can find a few free minutes somewhere. 17:36:59 who wants to chase this down? 17:37:09 * jzb waves at nirik 17:37:09 nirik: +1 17:37:46 I have a pull request I'll send today if we can get it moved :) 17:37:58 the PR model is so much more contributor friendly 17:38:03 short answer: it's on my list. will get it sometime. 17:38:06 very unlikely today. 17:38:13 nirik: absolutely 17:38:24 wasn't asking for it today.. just mentioned that it would immediately be useful 17:38:29 yep. I think so too. 17:38:57 anything else on this topic? 17:40:23 ok 17:40:33 FAD? 17:40:42 dat is it for actions 17:40:50 #topic Fedora Activity Day 17:40:57 jberkus: and go 17:41:04 so I'm still waiting for travel estimates from two people, one of them Kushal 17:41:18 maxamillion: has estimates, they just need to be added to the wiki page 17:41:28 jberkus: interesting.. i think kushal already booked his flights 17:41:40 if anyone has NOT put estimates on the wiki page TODAY I'll assume that your dept is paying for you 17:41:45 for pycon + fad 17:41:46 jberkus: we may have already paid for Kushal's flight 17:41:49 or part of Pycon 17:42:05 jzb: in which case the flight est is $0 17:42:09 but I don't *know* that 17:43:06 #action kushal add flight info to FAD page 17:43:08 ok 17:43:09 once I have that, can someone handhold me through the submission process? my first FAD 17:43:11 what else? 17:43:17 jberkus: they are on the wiki now 17:43:22 thanks! 17:43:30 jberkus, submission process is file a ticket on the council's trac 17:43:31 asking for funding 17:43:35 ah, ok 17:43:39 well, that's easy 17:44:14 they'll want to know things like What you plan to accomplish, where you are going, costs for space to have the fad, cost of food if you plan on paying for meals, and travel budget 17:46:00 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_organize_a_FAD 17:46:03 thanks 17:46:09 ok, that's it for FAD 17:46:36 groovy 17:46:37 OK 17:46:41 #topic open floor 17:46:55 I have a Q 17:47:08 jbrooks: ok 17:47:13 Openstack on Fedora? 17:47:16 Is it a thing? 17:47:24 puiterwijk, ^ 17:47:45 * puiterwijk reads back 17:47:48 jbrooks: we are trying to host an instance of OpenStack origin to test the full stack from Atomic to Origin + building containers on Fedora Atomic / OpenShift 17:48:07 jbrooks: what do you mean? OpenStack on the FEdora distro (RDO), or an openstack setup in Fedora infra? 17:48:14 jzb, But like, is that something we're trying to support / promote at all? 17:48:21 jbrooks: maxamillion has done the heavy lifting of packaging Origin for Fedora 17:48:26 jbrooks: yes 17:48:28 puiterwijk, I mean like rdo on fedora 17:48:46 I have no idea about that, and try to keep away fro mthat 17:48:54 jzb, I'm talking stack not shift 17:49:04 I'm using RHOSP for https://fedorainfracloud.org/ 17:49:07 oh, damn 17:49:09 sorry 17:49:14 It's on my mind w/ mitaka 17:49:21 * jzb really wants new names 17:49:31 jbrooks: no, that's not a thing we're trying to promote. 17:49:33 I haven't heard much about it lately, so I thought I'd throw that out 17:49:35 OK 17:49:35 jbrooks: though I think the RDO page said that it's not going to be part of Fedora after F23, and only as part of RDO 17:49:45 RDO should be available for Fedora, as per the RDO pages 17:49:50 I don't think RDO is doing it, though 17:50:17 Source: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OpenStack: "Starting with OpenStack Liberty, this mapping was not possible to maintain anymore due to schedule skew and too many changes in dependencies upstream. Hence OpenStack package maintainers team is now keeping only the latest OpenStack development release available for Fedora in RDO Trunk repositories from 17:50:17 https://rdoproject.org/ " 17:52:05 OK 17:52:06 anything else? 17:52:11 we've 8 minutes to spare 17:52:54 going once 17:53:01 going twice? 17:53:05 new meeting times? 17:53:13 or keep that on the list? 17:53:14 nzwulfin: oh, hello there 17:53:18 * nzwulfin waves 17:53:18 nzwulfin: hrm? 17:53:35 was a start of discussion on the list to change up the time 17:53:43 nzwulfin: I must have missed that. 17:53:50 wondering if we wanted to talk here or just continue on the list 17:53:55 nzwulfin: IIRC we asked kushal a while back if we should change that and he said no. 17:54:05 nzwulfin: let's do that on list, yeah 17:54:16 * nzwulfin goes back to lurking 17:54:22 where'd he go? 17:54:34 ok, iff'n there's nothing else 17:54:38 #endmeeting