17:04:49 <jberkus> #startmeeting fedora_cloud_wg
17:04:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 11 17:04:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is jberkus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:04:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:04:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_cloud_wg'
17:04:58 <jberkus> #topic roll call
17:05:06 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:05:07 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:05:25 <nzwulfin> .hello mmicene
17:05:26 <zodbot> nzwulfin: mmicene 'Matt Micene' <nzwulfin@gmail.com>
17:05:36 <trishnag> .hello trishnag
17:05:37 <zodbot> trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' <trishnaguha17@gmail.com>
17:05:41 <tflink> .hello tflink
17:05:42 <zodbot> tflink: tflink 'Tim Flink' <tflink@redhat.com>
17:06:12 <dustymabe> .hellomynameis dustymabe
17:06:13 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:06:19 * dustymabe saying hello from vacation land
17:06:45 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:06:45 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:07:44 <jberkus> #chair kushal dustymabe nzwulfin trishnag tflink rtnpro
17:07:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus kushal nzwulfin rtnpro tflink trishnag
17:08:18 <sayan> .hellomynameis sayanchowdhury
17:08:19 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:08:52 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:08:56 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:09:05 <jberkus> #chair maxamillion
17:09:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus kushal maxamillion nzwulfin rtnpro tflink trishnag
17:09:13 <jberkus> #chair sayan
17:09:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus kushal maxamillion nzwulfin rtnpro sayan tflink trishnag
17:09:40 <jberkus> ok, action items from last meeting: https://meetbot-raw.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora_cloud_wg/fedora_cloud_wg.2016-05-04-17.02.txt
17:09:48 <jberkus> in order
17:10:00 * jberkus jberkus to update ticket 115 with current status: DONE
17:10:17 * jberkus kushal to associate the items to owners in ticket 143
17:10:20 <jberkus> kushal?
17:10:37 <kushal> jberkus, I missed that, worked on the test day mostly.
17:10:41 <kushal> for the testday
17:10:46 <jberkus> ok
17:10:56 <jberkus> #action: kushal to associate the items to owners in ticket 143
17:11:06 <jberkus> did that work?
17:11:12 <jberkus> #action kushal to associate the items to owners in ticket 143
17:11:15 <jberkus> feh
17:11:49 <jberkus> can someone help me out here?  these commands aren't well-documented ...
17:12:03 <mattdm> jberkus: that is the right one
17:12:10 <mattdm> it just doesn't give feedback
17:12:16 <kushal> mattdm, :)
17:12:23 <jberkus> Don't overwrite download location for 2 week atomic images
17:12:25 <jberkus> kushal?
17:12:34 <kushal> jberkus, That is not me
17:12:35 <kushal> iirc
17:12:41 <dustymabe> thats maxamillion
17:12:43 <maxamillion> yo
17:12:47 <maxamillion> it's still on the backlog
17:12:47 <dustymabe> for post F24
17:13:09 <jberkus> ok, should we maybe take it off the action list if there's not going to be movement in the next week?
17:13:13 <maxamillion> I'll update as soon as I can, I promise I'm not just ignoring the ticket :)
17:13:15 <kushal> No update about the smoke tests yet, I will write down my ideas to a wiki page to share with the community.
17:13:31 <maxamillion> jberkus: yeah, take it off the action list, there's very little chance it will happen in the next weeks time
17:13:39 <maxamillion> also, I won't be here next week, I'll be at OSCON
17:14:27 <jberkus> kushal: it's unclear to me whethere the smoke tests are about testing *docker* or testing *containers*
17:14:35 <jberkus> see lots of confusion on the ticket in that regard
17:14:41 <kushal> jberkus, Should be testing containers
17:15:00 <kushal> jberkus, in particular, testing the layered images.
17:16:33 <jberkus> kushal: can you step in and make that clear?  the ticket is going nowhere because people are confused
17:17:09 <kushal> jberkus, Okay.
17:17:29 <jberkus> #action kushal to clarify smoke test ticket requirements
17:17:30 <chandankumar> .fas chandankumar
17:17:31 <zodbot> chandankumar: chandankumar 'Chandan Kumar' <chkumar246@gmail.com> - chandankumar2014 'chandan kumar' <chandankumar2014@gmail.com> - ciypro '' <chandankumar.093047@gmail.com>
17:17:44 <kushal> chandankumar, always use .hellomynameis
17:17:57 <chandankumar> .hellomynameis chandankumar
17:17:58 <zodbot> chandankumar: chandankumar 'Chandan Kumar' <chkumar246@gmail.com>
17:18:37 <jberkus> Next: Container Packager Guidelines
17:19:35 <jberkus> maxamillion: is the feedback on that one still going on?
17:19:53 <maxamillion> jberkus: eh ... seems to have stalled a bit, but the thread is still open
17:19:57 <tflink> which ticket are we talking about for smoke tests?
17:20:17 <jberkus> tflink: https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/151
17:20:26 <tflink> thanks
17:20:29 <maxamillion> jberkus: from there I need to go to fesco, there's not nearly as much feedback thus far as I had hoped
17:21:03 <maxamillion> I'm somewhat convinced that nobody wants to show up to do any of the work but they all want everything to be done months ago ... so, business as usual
17:21:26 <jberkus> maxamillion: open source is all about little red hens
17:21:52 <jberkus> maxamillion: do you want to wait for more feedback?
17:22:08 <maxamillion> oh I know, I've been at it for a while... but normally when it's something that so many people seem so excited about, there are people willing to volunteer some time
17:22:40 <maxamillion> it's "docker docker docker" all the time until work needs to be done around it ... but whatever, I'm just grumpy
17:22:40 <kushal> maxamillion, that is problem in the workgroup recently :(
17:22:59 <maxamillion> we can move on, I don't need to waste everyone's time complaining
17:23:21 <jberkus> maxamillion: ok.  not putting an action item in, thougth, since you'll be out next week (so will I)
17:24:13 <kushal> maxamillion, complains are also important to keep us in the correct path.
17:24:19 <jberkus> OK, I'm going to skip order because I dragged mattdm over here and go to making the download page clearer.  Then I'll go back to FOSP and Test day
17:24:38 <jberkus> so, Fedora Atomic download page clearer
17:24:41 <kushal> jberkus, Have you moved in to the tickets?
17:24:48 <jberkus> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/154
17:24:53 <maxamillion> kushal: eh, if you say so :)
17:25:09 <jberkus> no, going by the order of the action items.  which is largely the tickets, only in a different order
17:25:28 * mattdm is here :)
17:25:47 * roshi lurks
17:25:53 <kushal> #topic Action Items from last meeting
17:25:55 <kushal> * jberkus to update ticket 115 with current status
17:25:55 <kushal> * kushal to associate the items to owners in ticket 143
17:25:55 <kushal> * kushal to work with tflink on smoke tests
17:25:56 <kushal> * jzb write posts for Fedora Cloud Test day.
17:25:56 <kushal> * scollier to follow up on misc email for FOSP
17:26:14 <kushal> jberkus, go ahead please.
17:26:25 <jberkus> #topic make downloads page clearer https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/154
17:27:15 <jberkus> mattdm: you had some specific thoughts on changes to the current setup?
17:28:17 <mattdm> jberkus: yeah....
17:28:40 <mattdm> So, I'm operating on the assumption that we are going to de-emphasize Fedora Cloud Base image
17:28:48 <mattdm> and promote Atomic Host to be a top-level edition
17:29:06 * rtnpro needed to report on fedora-motd
17:29:17 <mattdm> This means https://getfedora.org/atomic/ instead of https://getfedora.org/cloud/
17:29:31 <mattdm> and currently, http://cloud.fedoraproject.org redirects to https://getfedora.org/cloud/
17:29:52 <mattdm> but it could instead be a page like https://arm.fedoraproject.org/
17:30:12 <mattdm> focused on private/public cloud images across spins and editions
17:30:26 <mattdm> ^ all of this is bascially from a discussion with mizmo a few months ago
17:31:06 <jberkus> makes sense, given that cloud deployments are like 80% of all new deployments these days ...
17:31:25 <mattdm> atomic.fedoraproject.org could redirect to https://getfedora.org/atomic/
17:31:31 <maxamillion> jberkus: based on what data?
17:32:22 <mattdm> _or_ it could be a landing page with links to getfedora, projectatomic.io, fedora docs, and maybe a related Hub
17:33:47 <jberkus> maxamillion: thought I had stats, but it's for apps, not OS.  will need to look further
17:34:09 <jberkus> thoughts on matt's ideas, anyone?
17:34:17 <dustymabe> jberkus: seems reasonable
17:34:34 <maxamillion> jberkus: I'd be really interested in that information, I think it would be useful when making priorities on work we're doing
17:34:55 <jberkus> maxamillion: I'll make use of some of RH's analyst hours for better data
17:35:17 <mattdm> jberkus++++++ that'd be awesome
17:36:06 <kushal> jberkus, ++
17:36:08 <jberkus> #action jberkus to obtain stats about cloud vs hw deployments
17:36:54 <jberkus> mattdm: can you open a ticket laying out the two (three?) design proposals above so that we could get people to pick between them?
17:37:10 <jberkus> or at least give more concrete feedback ...
17:37:30 <mattdm> jberkus: in the cloud trac?
17:37:37 <jberkus> yah
17:37:42 <mattdm> yup
17:37:56 <jberkus> #action mattdm to create ticket giving download page redesign options
17:38:03 <jberkus> thanks.  ok, next
17:38:20 <mattdm> (wait, was there a proposal _other_ than what I gave?)
17:38:30 <mattdm> Because it's really more like "one proposal, with variations"
17:38:38 <jberkus> #topic Fedora Cloud Test Day https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/152
17:38:57 <jberkus> mattdm: the original ticket just talked about making the text and arrangement of links clearer.  it was much more modest
17:39:07 <mattdm> jberkus: kk
17:39:17 <kushal> jberkus, I will have to update the wiki page, and then the ticket.
17:39:20 <kushal> It went well.
17:39:21 <jberkus> so, someone want to do a test day report? Kushal?
17:39:32 <kushal> jberkus, I will write that up.
17:39:41 <jberkus> kushal: well, it went well in terms of "we found lots of bugs"
17:39:48 <kushal> :)
17:39:52 <jberkus> #action kushal to do test day writeup
17:40:11 <kushal> But I hoped for more participation from cloud sig/wg
17:40:21 <jberkus> kushal: I did a non-standard test of F24.  Is there anywhere to report that?  There doesn't seem to be
17:40:33 <kushal> jberkus, Add that in the wiki page
17:40:36 <kushal> in the results section
17:41:20 <jberkus> kushal: is there a reason why there were no Atomic AMIs for AWS?  that kept me from testing effectively
17:41:34 <kushal> jberkus, Yes, we found that issue few hours back.
17:41:39 <dustymabe> kushal: link?
17:42:01 <kushal> jberkus, The image name changed, that was causing the missing the uploads.
17:42:06 * kushal is searching for the PR
17:42:10 <sayan> https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedimg/pull/50
17:42:24 <jberkus> got it
17:42:30 <kushal> https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedimg/pull/50
17:42:35 <kushal> sayan, thanks.
17:43:49 <dustymabe> kushal: so the next nightlies should generate images?
17:43:53 <dustymabe> AMIs
17:44:17 <sayan> dustymabe: so I am waiting for threebean to review the PR once
17:45:07 <dustymabe> k
17:45:23 <kushal> sayan, after that you will have to do a hotfix
17:45:32 <sayan> kushal: yes
17:45:41 <threebean> oh, really?
17:45:43 * threebean looks
17:45:49 <jberkus> ok, anything else on the test day?
17:46:15 <tflink> one note that I heard about - some of the atomic test cases are a bit out of date
17:46:33 <kushal> tflink, do you know which ones?
17:46:36 <tflink> i think that coremodule is working on updating them
17:46:38 <jberkus> tflink: yeah.  and there's no testing of kubernetes AFAICT
17:46:39 <tflink> I can find links
17:47:08 <tflink> kushal: the problem was mostly around testcloud installation instructions
17:47:20 <kushal> Oh
17:47:20 <tflink> IIRC, the test case itself (post-prep) was fine
17:47:35 <kushal> I was just telling people to do "dnf install testcloud"
17:47:43 <tflink> yeah, that's what it should say
17:47:59 <tflink> but it tells folks to install from git and doesn't mention any of the deps, other setup bits etc.
17:48:21 <coremodule> fedoraproject.org/wiki/Local_Test_Cloud_Installation_Guide
17:48:43 <kushal> tflink, oh, missed that then.
17:48:49 <tflink> coremodule: do you have links to the test cases you found?
17:48:58 <dustymabe> I think the biggest thing from the test day is this bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334588
17:49:10 <kushal> https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedimg/pull/50
17:49:12 <coremodule> Yes, standby...
17:49:13 <kushal> oops
17:49:16 <kushal> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334588
17:49:20 <dustymabe> we have been kicking the can down the road on docker not working in Atomic
17:49:21 <kushal> Just for record
17:49:27 <jberkus> tflink: I think that, for an AWS test, setting up a basic 3-node kubernetes cluster and deploying a pod could be a reasonable tst
17:49:30 <maxamillion> oh, nice one
17:49:34 <dustymabe> because we would test the latest version in fedora cloud base
17:49:44 <dustymabe> latest one from updates-testing
17:49:48 <dustymabe> and it would work
17:49:57 <jberkus> it would help to make the ansible-aws setup less complex, though
17:49:57 <kushal> dustymabe, Ah, thanks for doing that.
17:50:02 <dustymabe> so we would assume that once it reached stable docker would work in atomic
17:50:15 <dustymabe> but I don't think that is the case
17:50:16 <tflink> jberkus: that sounds reasonable to me, let us know if you need help on test case formatting etc.
17:50:27 * tflink assumes jberkus was talking about a manual test case
17:50:29 <kushal> jberkus, we have a test for that ready in autocloud/tunir, waiting to deploy the new version to prod.
17:50:32 <dustymabe> see comment #6 from that bu
17:50:34 <dustymabe> bug
17:50:54 <jberkus> tflink: yeah
17:51:00 <jberkus> I'll open a ticket for myself
17:51:04 <coremodule> tflink, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Roshi/QA/AtomicTests/Atomic_Image_Boots
17:51:05 <kushal> https://kushaldas.in/posts/testing-containers-using-kubernetes-on-tunir-version-0-15.html
17:51:06 <jberkus> and cc jbrooks on it
17:51:09 <kushal> jberkus, ^^^^^
17:51:37 <kushal> jberkus, Problem is not everyone has an account in AWS.
17:51:42 <coremodule> tflink, That was the big one that'd throw you off, the rest assumed you had a working install.
17:51:45 <kushal> The volunteers mostly not.
17:52:06 <jberkus> kushal: really?  huh.
17:52:16 * jberkus thought everyone had an aws account these days
17:52:19 * jberkus has several
17:52:29 <tflink> that's been an issue for any AWS testing for as long as I can remember
17:52:31 <jberkus> it would be good to doc other clouds too
17:53:24 <kushal> jberkus, Volunteers don't have (mostly) :(
17:53:29 <jberkus> kushal: what about getting a budget for AWS-based testing?   I mean, AWS is one of our big deployment targets, we ougth to test there (as well as on GCE, DO, etc.)
17:53:33 <kushal> Not in any provider.
17:53:46 <kushal> jberkus, That is coming, in future releases.
17:53:56 <kushal> jberkus, We are getting to that part (slowly).
17:54:23 <jberkus> well, it's hurting us.  you saw that Fedora currently has like 2.1% of cloud deployments.  we're already behind the curve ...
17:54:37 <coremodule> tflink, The link in that guide has been updated to reflect the change.
17:54:38 <jberkus> anyway, not going to resove that here.  anything else on test day?
17:54:39 <maxamillion> where are we going to get this budget from?
17:55:01 <maxamillion> mattdm: do we have money to spin up tests in all the major public IaaS providers?
17:55:07 <jberkus> #action jberkus to work on test for kubernetes cluster on AWS etc
17:55:33 <kushal> maxamillion, OSAS is paying the official account, openshift team is donating our community account iirc (for AWS).
17:55:56 <jberkus> keep in mind that we're talking about something like $150 per test day
17:55:57 <mattdm> maxamillion: not allocated, since we've been blocked on legal. AWS we can do with the community cloud account. And I *think* Digital Ocean is likely to comp us some time if we ask nicely
17:56:22 <mattdm> (blocked on legal applies to Azure and GCE)
17:56:42 <dustymabe> mattdm: yeah I think I can get a free account from DO
17:56:48 <jberkus> mattdm: that's a topic for another time
17:56:58 <dustymabe> they just gave me a bunch of credits for doing testing
17:57:19 <jberkus> #topic FOSP https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/153
17:57:30 <jberkus> are scollier or jzb here?
17:57:56 <dustymabe> jzb sent regrets
17:57:58 <jberkus> so, nothing on that
17:58:17 <dustymabe> scollier was in training this week
17:58:49 <kushal> 2 minutes.
17:58:51 <jberkus> ok, I'm going to skip to other business
17:58:56 <jberkus> because something has come up
17:58:59 <jberkus> #topic other business
17:59:37 <jberkus> apparently we're responsible for part of this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Third_party_software_proposal
18:00:03 <jberkus> specifically: Rules for software packaged as Docker images
18:00:32 <jberkus> anyone already involved in that?
18:00:43 <dustymabe> jberkus: I'm not
18:00:50 <kushal> nope.
18:01:03 <mizmo> mattdm - i did a little blog writeup of the proposal - http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2015/09/15/fedora-atomic-logo-idea/
18:01:21 <jberkus> if I file a ticket, can someone stay on it to make sure it gets done?  presumably someone other than maxamillion ?
18:01:37 <maxamillion> mizmo++
18:01:37 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for duffy changed to 21 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:01:39 <mattdm> mizmo++
18:01:40 <maxamillion> mizmo: love the logo!
18:01:45 <jberkus> mizmo: oh, I like it
18:01:53 <kushal> mizmo, thanks :)
18:02:04 <kushal> mizmo++
18:02:04 <zodbot> kushal: Karma for duffy changed to 22 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:02:06 <maxamillion> jberkus: I'm not but I probably should be, didn't know that was somehow falling on us
18:02:34 <mattdm> mizmo: Oh yeah! I rememberd that but forgot that your blog post covered ore than the logo
18:02:37 <maxamillion> (actually didn't know that page existed)
18:02:39 <jberkus> well, we're not going to handle it here
18:02:45 <jberkus> but, I want a ticket owner
18:02:57 <jberkus> because if I create a ticket with no owner, nothing will happen ...
18:03:20 <kushal> jberkus, what exactly we have to do as Cloud WG?
18:03:33 <kushal> jberkus, I can take that ticket, but first I want to know what is required.
18:03:42 <jberkus> kushal: work with Fedora Server to create rules on third-party docker image software.  that's all I know
18:03:52 <jberkus> beyond that ... mattdm ?
18:03:56 <kushal> jberkus, Okay.
18:04:09 <maxamillion> I'll join kushal on that adventure
18:04:11 <kushal> We are already 3 minutes into extra time.
18:04:16 <kushal> maxamillion, :)
18:04:29 <kushal> jberkus, Add that ticket to start with.
18:04:40 <jberkus> ok
18:04:53 <mizmo> mattdm, oh hey theres a mockup https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/XAJQSUAGXJBXBG7LC3HKJEK4KBTNYTTP/
18:05:01 <jberkus> #topic endmeeting
18:05:12 <jberkus> btw, we need a chair for next week
18:05:14 <jberkus> I can't do it
18:05:40 <kushal> jberkus, it did not end :)
18:05:44 <kushal> #endmeeting