17:58:39 <decause> #startmeeting Fedora Council
17:58:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 23 17:58:39 2016 UTC.  The chair is decause. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:58:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:58:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_council'
17:58:55 <decause> #topic RollCall
17:59:01 <decause> .hello decause
17:59:02 <zodbot> decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' <decause@redhat.com>
18:00:33 <jkurik> .hello jkurik
18:00:34 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
18:03:40 <decause> robyduck: ^
18:06:49 <decause> in 5
18:06:51 <decause> 4
18:06:52 <decause> 3
18:08:29 <decause> #topic FAmSCo Presentation
18:08:35 <decause> christoph is speaking
18:08:53 <decause> Quick status
18:09:05 <decause> We have members from around the world
18:09:06 <decause> which is good
18:09:08 <decause> the downside is
18:09:14 <decause> it is hard to find a meeting slot that works for everyone
18:09:24 <decause> the IRC meetings can be hard to find a slot for
18:09:43 <decause> #link https://plus.google.com/events/c3qluh7urmc63877kk5rl0la4f4
18:09:49 <decause> things are getting better
18:10:18 <decause> we've worked through our deadlocked decision making
18:10:29 <decause> we have some non-english speakers, which complicates things
18:10:34 <decause> but we've made progress
18:10:45 <decause> we have regular meetings, and most of the time we reach quorum now
18:10:57 <decause> we've switched to async communication and decision making
18:11:07 <decause> we now have dedicated decision making in trac
18:11:17 <decause> if there is no ticket, there is no decision
18:11:26 <decause> #info FAmSco is now using lazy consensus
18:11:38 <decause> #info potty is chair, cwickert is vice-chair
18:11:47 <decause> the lazy consensus works a little differently than council
18:11:57 <decause> we have 7 days, and after we can discuss after
18:12:06 <decause> we'll never be slowed down more than one week
18:12:20 <decause> this already caused us lengthy discussions, but we're hopeful it will help us in the future
18:12:25 <decause> #topic FOSCO
18:12:45 <decause> the idea is to have a committee that represents not just ambassadors, but design and marketing
18:12:49 <decause> it is a global effort
18:12:53 <decause> and will include other subprojects
18:13:05 <decause> we're not totally clear on the mission, other than bundling and coordinating efforts
18:13:24 <decause> we want to help with things like what Ambassadors have been doing (getting the word out)
18:13:30 <decause> but also, proposed marketing strategies
18:13:37 <decause> and managing the regional ambassadors budgets
18:13:46 <decause> which is ambassador/outreach budget
18:13:53 <decause> and we want to be a feedback channel for the community
18:14:04 <decause> the ambassadors are the ones that go out to hte community
18:14:11 <decause> we want to bring ideas back to FOSCo, and back to the council
18:14:26 <decause> even though council does overall strategy, we want to be a source of input
18:14:34 <decause> so far, there have been various discussions
18:15:11 <decause> around better coordination between design<->marketing<->ambassadors
18:15:13 <decause> we all agree
18:15:32 <decause> these teams are the "core" but we'd think of the other groups, that have missions to reach out
18:15:39 <decause> such as translation, documentation
18:15:53 <decause> in order to be operational, we don't think it should have more than 10 members
18:16:00 <decause> FAMSCO has 7, which is not enough
18:16:11 <decause> but we don't want more than 10, and ideally, we'd have an odd number
18:16:23 <decause> for certain objectives/projects, we may want more
18:16:36 <decause> we want to move from elected to appointed, with lazy consensus
18:16:52 <decause> what I'm presenting here is a broad consensus around the discussion
18:16:57 <decause> there is some disagreement
18:17:05 <decause> we've not had the chance to discuss our ideas with other groups
18:17:12 <decause> this goes back to 2014
18:17:21 <decause> but there was little response
18:17:31 <decause> if we have a proposal, we hope we'll have poeple buy in
18:17:35 <decause> or freak-out, and tell us ;)
18:17:43 <decause> one way or the other, kickstarting the initiative
18:17:53 <decause> #topic FOSCo composition
18:18:07 <decause> Def include the FCL (currently decause)
18:18:16 <decause> 4 reps from ambassadors from all the regions
18:18:22 <decause> NA, EMEA, LATAM, APAC
18:18:44 <decause> 1 member from marketing
18:18:47 <decause> 1 member from design
18:18:54 <decause> these would be appointed members
18:19:10 <decause> overall, this is a body more about coordination rather than decision making
18:19:28 <decause> some people are worried about how decisions will be made in this body, particularly within ambassadors, who have a higher representation
18:19:35 <decause> for me, that is not as much of a concern
18:19:44 <decause> we won't be ambassadors v. design, etc...
18:19:51 <decause> our main purpose is to get things done
18:20:02 <decause> decision making is still up to design team for design, etc...
18:20:13 <decause> we trust the teams to do the right thing, and just want to better coordinate
18:20:25 <decause> we want to also have 2 elected seats
18:20:41 <decause> and then advisory/auxiliary members as needed
18:21:12 <decause> some groups we were thinking of were Docs, translations/g11n, CommOps, Magazine, and Diversity Advisor
18:21:25 <decause> these may change, depending on what project we're working on
18:21:37 <decause> and this is inline with the decisions that the council makes re: outreach initiaties we support
18:21:43 <decause> all of this is subject to change, and will likely change
18:21:58 <decause> the 9 members will be fixed, and then replaced over time
18:22:06 <decause> perhaps 18 month terms, like the council?
18:22:15 <decause> #topic Q&A
18:22:26 <decause> some folks think we should include the FPL, but I think mattdm is very very busy
18:22:35 <decause> I'd consider decause (FCL) the right hand of the FPL
18:22:50 <decause> perhaps also include jkurik (FPM)
18:22:59 <decause> perhaps there are other positions we didn't consider
18:23:10 <decause> with regards to the mission, we need to have a clear definition
18:23:28 <decause> one member of FAMSCO suggested that perhaps we have 1-2 members of FESCO included
18:23:42 <decause> so some overlap with FESCO, and the Council, may be a good idea
18:23:48 <decause> I'd like to hear your opinion on that
18:24:02 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/373
18:24:10 <decause> there has been some discussion on mailing lists in the past
18:24:24 <decause> and the current status, the essence of the previous discussions, are pretty much sumarized.
18:24:40 <decause> again, you may need to adjust your FAS permissions and log-in to see the ticket
18:24:57 <decause> from my side for now, I will stop this presentation, and screen sharing, and move on to discussion
18:25:01 <decause> any ideas/questions
18:25:06 <decause> I"m looking forward to feedback
18:26:28 <decause> langdon: there are actually two elected seats
18:26:31 <decause> in the council
18:26:44 <decause> cwickert: Oh, good. that aligns us better with the council.
18:31:48 <decause> #info What is the timeline like?
18:32:05 <decause> #info We would like to decide ASAP, with a goal of having it figured it out by Flock
18:32:59 <decause> cwickert: One of my questions is the budget question
18:33:04 <decause> a little background
18:33:17 <decause> the reason why FAMSCO handled budget, was because teh amabassadors spent the most
18:33:21 <decause> and because we didn't have anyone else
18:33:30 <decause> the ambassadors were founded in the early days of Fedora
18:33:37 <decause> we had a working infrastructure, and a body for decision making
18:33:57 <decause> we have council taking over some of the budget (the global part)
18:34:11 <decause> I don't see why FAMSCO/Outreach has to do everything
18:34:25 <decause> but I think the Outreachy Budget should remain part of FOSCo
18:34:35 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
18:34:36 <decause> that means we don't just do regional efforts
18:34:36 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
18:34:46 <decause> so, having the whole outreach budget under the control of fosco
18:34:51 <decause> robyduck: sorry about that
18:37:23 <langdon> .hello langdon
18:37:24 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@fishjump.com>
18:37:29 <robyduck> decause: reading but not able to attend the hangout
18:37:51 <decause> robyduck: ack
18:38:04 <decause> robyduck: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/373
18:41:28 <decause> #info F24 election cycle is probably too early to have an election for FOSCo
18:42:02 <decause> jkurik: we /could/ do a special election too before the F25 GA
18:42:43 <decause> #idea Have a special election for FOSCo when the plan is agreed upon.
18:43:26 <decause> cwickert: We have had long discussion of who can vote within FAmSco and FOSCo
18:43:33 <decause> we'd have to bring that up again
18:45:21 <decause> #info Perhaps we can have the current FAmSCo take interim seats on the FOSCo
18:46:03 <decause> cwickert: I'm glad we have experienced members on FAmSCo, but it is a good time for new members to step up
18:46:13 <decause> I would probably step down, because I have less time
18:46:32 <decause> once FOSCo is in good shape, I'd have no problem transferring repsonsibility to new members
18:47:07 <decause> cwickert: I have a question
18:47:22 <decause> I think the discussion will carry on in FAMSCO for another 2-3 weeks
18:47:38 <decause> If FAmSco doesn't get it done, then we need the council to drive this forward.
18:49:23 <robyduck> we need experience in the first FOSCo, not new members. I'm not for transferring FAmSCo members to FOSCo ad interim, we should make sure FOSCo is set up fine and then make new elections.
18:50:03 <robyduck> If FAmSCo members want to run also for FOSCo they should do that, same for new members. Nobody should get excluded to be in the first FOSCo
18:50:50 <decause> #idea Have a deadline for FOSCo ratification by July 1st
18:51:10 <decause> +1
18:51:12 <langdon> +1
18:51:18 <jkurik> +1
18:51:32 <cwickert> +1
18:51:48 <robyduck> +1
18:54:42 <decause> #info CommOps team will support socializing the FOSCo and promoting the initiative cross-teams once it is ratified
18:55:58 <decause> #topic Open Floor
18:56:10 <cwickert> here goes the link: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1InyiLtvmu7j5qsbCweqx1_qlK4rdIAcJaokKq7qQFz4/edit?usp=sharing
18:56:26 <langdon> cwickert, that is the slides from the meeting, right?
18:57:12 <jkurik> langdon: yes
18:57:24 <langdon> jkurik, thanks.. i missed the premise ;)
18:58:14 <cwickert> langdon: right
18:59:42 <decause> #link https://www.redhat.com/en/about/blog/two-red-hatters-win-2016-o%E2%80%99reilly-open-source-awards
18:59:57 <decause> #info congratulations mizmo on our O'Reilly Open Source Award
19:00:12 <robyduck> thanks cwickert
19:01:24 <cwickert> welcome robyduck
19:05:15 <decause> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCmB1xHCqQ
19:05:26 <decause> thanks all for joining us today
19:05:35 <decause> #endmeeting