17:00:26 <kushal> #startmeeting Fedora Atomic Working Group
17:00:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 17:00:26 2016 UTC.  The chair is kushal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_working_group'
17:00:32 <kushal> #topic Roll Call
17:00:39 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:00:41 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:01:18 * coremodule is here.
17:01:24 <trishnag> .hello trishnag
17:01:25 <zodbot> trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' <trishnaguha17@gmail.com>
17:01:26 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:01:28 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:01:33 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
17:01:35 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:01:39 <coremodule> .hello coremodule
17:01:40 <zodbot> coremodule: coremodule 'Geoffrey Marr' <gmarr@redhat.com>
17:02:26 <kushal> #chair coremodule trishnag maxamillion dustymabe jberkus
17:02:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: coremodule dustymabe jberkus kushal maxamillion trishnag
17:02:43 <jbrooks> .fas jasonbrooks
17:02:44 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:02:47 <rtnpro> .fas rtnpro
17:02:48 <zodbot> rtnpro: rtnpro 'Ratnadeep Debnath' <rtnpro@gmail.com>
17:03:04 <kushal> #chair jbrooks  rtnpro
17:03:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: coremodule dustymabe jberkus jbrooks kushal maxamillion rtnpro trishnag
17:03:20 <jberkus> .fas jberkus
17:03:21 <zodbot> jberkus: jberkus 'Josh Berkus' <josh@agliodbs.com>
17:04:52 <kushal> Okay
17:05:18 <kushal> Should we discuss about the F26 change proposal ideas today, or go to standard tickets?
17:05:31 <vvaldez> .hello vvaldez
17:05:32 <zodbot> vvaldez: vvaldez 'Vinny Valdez' <vvaldez@redhat.com>
17:05:39 <kushal> #chair vvaldez
17:05:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: coremodule dustymabe jberkus jbrooks kushal maxamillion rtnpro trishnag vvaldez
17:06:50 <kushal> Is this just me or people are actually silent?
17:07:02 <walters> i'm not sure if it's a change but I plan to keep working on openshift-related items, mostly the installer, system containers
17:07:07 <bowlofeggs> .hello bowlofeggs
17:07:07 <jberkus> well, people are still talking on fedora-cloud
17:07:09 <zodbot> bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' <randy@electronsweatshop.com>
17:07:31 <walters> and rpm-ostree work, things like https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1393545
17:07:57 <jberkus> walters: is there any reason why an Openshift install just using layering wouldn't work?
17:08:21 <kushal> #topic Fedora 26 change proposal ideas discussion
17:08:27 <kushal> walters, thanks, I will start a new wiki page, and share it in the list. Can you please add these ideas there? Just to keep track.
17:08:45 <walters> jberkus, none, but i think long term, we want to decouple:  host, platform, and app updates
17:09:02 <jberkus> walters: no question
17:09:13 <jbrooks> walters, I'd love a how to make a system container guide
17:09:15 <jbrooks> or sometihng
17:09:15 <walters> people running openshift-via-yum already hit the problem that you really don't want `yum update` to potentially update your paas
17:09:19 <jberkus> on the other hand, there's getting something running *right now* too
17:09:28 <jbrooks> how the config.json.template and stuff works
17:09:46 <walters> jbrooks, yeah, i think work on improving system containers is all part of this
17:09:52 <jberkus> jbrooks: that's a runc thing.  I'll admit that docs on it are kinda poor
17:09:54 <walters> anyways i'm not sure how this maps into a Change
17:10:01 <jbrooks> Knowing how to make one is blocking me on that
17:10:09 <kushal> With sayan I want to work on a change to rewrite Fedimg, and add power to run the same tests though autocloud in AWS.
17:10:13 <jbrooks> No, it's just open mic
17:10:20 <jbrooks> back to topic
17:10:28 <kushal> This will allow us to block any non-working AMI(s) in the open.
17:10:57 <jberkus> do we still have tests we're ignoring?
17:11:01 <jbrooks> kushal, +1 to making a f26 changes wiki page or issue for collection/discussion
17:11:12 <kushal> jberkus, means?
17:11:15 <dustymabe> yes, kushal, can you action that?
17:11:40 <jberkus> we had some tests we disabled for releases a couple months ago
17:11:40 <kushal> #action kushal to create the change wiki page for 26 for collection of ideas
17:11:55 <kushal> jberkus, not disabled, but marked them non-gating
17:12:31 <kushal> Which are passing now.
17:12:37 <jberkus> ok
17:12:43 <kushal> We can mark them as gating test again.
17:12:53 <kushal> I will have to open the ticket for doing so.
17:13:20 <kushal> #action kushal to reopen the ticket for marking the non-gating tests to gating (change was made during F25 cycle).
17:13:52 <kushal> jbrooks, btw, as dustymabe suggested in the last meeting, I have started the discussion in the mailing list.
17:13:59 <kushal> Just that not much replies to that.
17:14:07 <kushal> Even I will have to reply with my ideas.
17:14:38 <jbrooks> ack, I'll reply there
17:15:01 <kushal> The second idea is about providing a fedora base image for rkt (like we release the docker base image) from official Fedora build systems. Any comments on that?
17:15:06 <walters> one thing i want to mention too is https://pagure.io/releng/issue/6545
17:15:24 <kushal> walters, checkign
17:15:27 <kushal> * checking
17:16:07 <dustymabe> kushal: I would nix that idea
17:16:21 * walters unfortunately has to head out, back later, but will read scrollback
17:16:32 <dustymabe> I think we need to walk before we run. i.e. let's do what we already set out to do well before we add new things
17:16:41 <dustymabe> walters: thanks for joining
17:16:41 <jberkus> does that mean we'd also offer rkt support on AH?
17:17:25 <kushal> jberkus, nope if I understand correctly, but our users can run rkt on proper fedora base images.
17:17:31 <kushal> which is something I would want.
17:17:40 <kushal> walters, thanks :)
17:17:50 <dustymabe> kushal: yeah, here is where things start to get confusing
17:17:57 <dustymabe> because we are the Atomic WG now
17:18:17 <dustymabe> so if not for Atomic Host, what is the point?
17:18:51 <jberkus> kushal: if we're going to support rkt, we should support it
17:18:53 <kushal> dustymabe, To keep it ready when we say we will support rocket on Atomic Host (if ever).
17:19:07 <jberkus> if we don't have rkt on fedora, then who woudl use the base images?
17:19:17 <jbrooks> What's required to run rkt?
17:19:23 <jbrooks> We could install via pkg layering
17:19:26 <jbrooks> as an option
17:19:31 <jberkus> jbrooks: afaik, some binaires
17:19:33 <maxamillion> jberkus: we have rkt in Fedora, just not in Atomic Host
17:19:44 <kushal> jberkus, we have rkt
17:19:51 <jbrooks> package layering lets us leave that to the user
17:20:04 <jbrooks> or if we can pkg it into a system container
17:20:32 <maxamillion> I would like to note that adding rkt building to OSBS would be a major development effort and is not currently on the roadmap anywhere
17:20:38 <kushal> jbrooks, still for anything, if we want to run any fedora based on top of it, we will require a fedora base image for the same.
17:20:44 <jberkus> so, aside from the work involved, what's the reason to NOT have rkt available for AH?
17:20:46 <jbrooks> Before we can talk about supporting this, do we even have a poc?
17:20:57 <jberkus> maxamillion: congrats, btw
17:21:00 <jbrooks> Has someone done a writeup or something
17:21:11 <kushal> maxamillion, yes, that is why I am talking about only generating the base image as the artifact.
17:21:20 <jberkus> jbrooks: not afaik.  I was under the impression that asking about rkt was political
17:21:31 <jbrooks> I don't think so
17:21:35 <maxamillion> I'm not against enabling rkt, but it's not something we'll be able to build as official Fedora deliverables for some time
17:21:38 <maxamillion> jberkus: thanks :D
17:22:32 <dustymabe> yeah I'm against efforts to enable rkt until we are comfortable with our current workload
17:22:41 <jbrooks> Well, whoever is caring about rkt can start by taking an action to write up something about it?
17:22:53 <dustymabe> unless we have an influx of community members who want to donate the time/effort
17:22:57 <kushal> jbrooks, Okay, I will take that on my head.
17:23:01 <jbrooks> Cool
17:23:08 <kushal> dustymabe, I am volunteering :)
17:24:17 <kushal> Any other topic/ideas for F26 timeframe?
17:24:23 <dustymabe> kushal: so you're comfortable with doing rkt in addition to all of the other work that needs to be done in this WG?
17:24:36 <maxamillion> kushal: we have a card with some info about what would be required in tagia for the releng tools team
17:24:39 <maxamillion> kushal: it's *old*
17:24:56 <kushal> dustymabe, Looking at my personal workload, yes.
17:24:59 <dustymabe> I hate to say it but this WG has a ton of technical debt
17:25:14 <jberkus> dustymabe: really?  no!
17:25:32 <kushal> dustymabe, For that may we can start writing them down, and then eliminate them one by one.
17:25:44 <dustymabe> kushal: we literally almost missed F25 release because no one was looking at the ISO images
17:25:53 <maxamillion> dustymabe: there's a lot of people with a lot of great ideas but little time to actually solve problems or write code (myself included)
17:25:58 <dustymabe> do you not think there is a serious problem there that needs to be resolved
17:26:08 <jbrooks> dustymabe, and yet we released much more promptly than last time
17:26:13 <jbrooks> We're making progress
17:26:40 <dustymabe> yes we are making progress. but literally again it was up until the last few days before we had something
17:26:40 <kushal> dustymabe, We keep missing builds also same way, and generally it is you who point it everytime :)
17:26:46 <jberkus> speaking of which ... is the f25 base image out yet?
17:27:13 <maxamillion> dustymabe: it was the night before when the release script go rewritten (well, half rewritten) because I didn't know that things changed out from under it
17:27:17 <jbrooks> Ah, that's something to discuss -- are we pawning the base image off to server wg for 26?
17:27:18 <maxamillion> :)
17:27:28 <maxamillion> jberkus: "f25 base image" ... you mean docker?
17:27:35 <kushal> jbrooks, that is a million dollars question.
17:27:46 <jbrooks> the docker image is out
17:27:53 <dustymabe> I'm just saying. lets grease our machine and get better at what we are currently doing
17:27:54 <jberkus> yeah
17:28:05 <maxamillion> jberkus: yes, I released it on f25 GA day
17:28:16 <dustymabe> if anyone thinks they have ample free time, let's chat
17:28:17 <maxamillion> a little late in the day because things got crazy, but it's there
17:28:28 <jberkus> maxamillion: hmm.  docker hub was still not finding it the day after.  something wrong with hub?
17:28:39 <kushal> dustymabe, I will have a chat with you.
17:28:41 <kushal> :)
17:29:22 <dustymabe> kushal: also if we are doing so well as a WG then why did we have no answer for kubernetes on release day for F25
17:29:36 <dustymabe> we have a lot of work to do :)
17:30:08 <kushal> dustymabe, I never said we are doing so well, in my blog post I mentioned about few things went really good.
17:30:17 <jberkus> we do have an answer, just no docs
17:30:40 <kushal> jberkus, That is a common problem without any answer still now.
17:30:46 <jbrooks> We have some answers, and some questions
17:30:52 <kushal> We need people who can write.
17:31:04 <dustymabe> I don't think that is the problem. we might have an answer now.
17:31:04 <jbrooks> For instance, we need containerized kube, but we have no official fedora containres
17:31:05 <jberkus> well, I'm rewriting the multi-node getting started guide
17:31:16 <dustymabe> but we should have actually had an answer when the change went in
17:31:18 <kushal> dustymabe, not having enough docs is a big problem for us.
17:31:21 <dustymabe> to remove k8s
17:31:31 <maxamillion> jbrooks: we will have official fedora containers in about a week and a half
17:31:33 <dustymabe> way before f25 release
17:31:34 <jbrooks> Even then our kube is ancient
17:31:47 <dustymabe> jbrooks: that is another problem, yes
17:31:54 <jbrooks> maxamillion, awesome -- where can I submit dockerfiles for those?
17:31:57 <jberkus> oh, yeah, the container images
17:32:04 <kushal> jbrooks, yeah, suggesting to run ancient kube on a modern os does not make that happy users :)
17:32:16 <dustymabe> ok, i'll stop ranting now, in short. we have a lot of work to do for f26
17:32:25 <maxamillion> jberkus: DistGit, it will be managed just like packages via pkgdb ... it's a namespace in distgit already
17:32:28 <dustymabe> and I look forward to making things better
17:32:33 <jberkus> my plan is to write docs which use the official 1.4.5 images
17:32:35 <maxamillion> jbrooks: errr r... tab fail ^^^
17:32:38 <kushal> dustymabe, don't stop, you are really bringing out the pain points.
17:32:48 <jbrooks> maxamillion, so that's via email? I've never grokked how one collabs w/ dist-git
17:32:50 <kushal> This is useful, as we can discuss these now.
17:32:57 <jberkus> until we have *current* fedora-based images
17:33:01 <dustymabe> kushal: :) - we just have to be much more enganged
17:33:05 <maxamillion> jberkus: are you a fedora package maintainer?
17:33:05 <dustymabe> and we will be
17:33:11 <jberkus> maxamillion: nope
17:33:13 <maxamillion> god damn irssi
17:33:17 <jbrooks> me neither
17:33:19 <maxamillion> oh
17:33:21 <kushal> maxamillion, :D
17:33:21 <jbrooks> But I'd like to become one
17:33:27 * misc can sponsor
17:33:34 <maxamillion> well it's the exact same workflow as being a fedora package maintainer (which we did on purpose)
17:33:45 <jbrooks> I'll ping you, misc
17:33:46 <dustymabe> misc: :)
17:33:48 <jbrooks> thanks
17:34:05 <dustymabe> jbrooks++ misc++
17:34:05 <zodbot> dustymabe: Karma for jasonbrooks changed to 1 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:34:08 <zodbot> dustymabe: Karma for misc changed to 1 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:34:18 <jberkus> maxamillion: well, there's multiple steps involved.  first we need RPMs for current kubernetes, *then* we can build contianers
17:34:20 <kushal> dustymabe, okay, after this discussion settles down, I will put topic as suggestion to improve the wg. Please suggest then.
17:34:22 <misc> always happy to increase my army of mini^W^W^W^W^W help others to be happy in Fedora land
17:34:22 <maxamillion> jbrooks: basically 'fedpkg clone docker/NAME_OF_MY_CONTAINER' and then 'vim Dockerfile' -> 'fedpkg commit -m "made awesome changes"' -> 'fedpkg push' -> 'fedpkg container-build'
17:34:39 <jbrooks> ack
17:34:49 <jbrooks> we could use karma on the kube pkg: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-fffea4b1c3
17:35:04 <dustymabe> jbrooks: I've been meaning to get there
17:35:06 <dustymabe> :(
17:35:08 <jbrooks> simple testing directions: https://gist.github.com/jasonbrooks/f1aa092e63edce5272451c5845f72750
17:36:41 <dustymabe> ok - so didn't mean to derail the discussion
17:36:42 <kushal> jbrooks, thanks, will do that tomorrow morning my time.
17:36:44 <jberkus> just one more vote on that and it passes
17:37:14 <kushal> Can we now go to the topic of improving the working group?
17:37:25 <dustymabe> so do we have any f26 changes that will improve our current workflow and/or make our entire process better?
17:37:50 <dustymabe> I think I have one
17:38:03 <dustymabe> which is something colin has wanted for a while
17:38:04 <kushal> dustymabe, tell us more :)
17:38:32 <dustymabe> basically ostree is the actual release artifact of the Atomic WG
17:38:45 <dustymabe> and that actually gets built and released every night when bodhi runs
17:39:04 <dustymabe> we'd like for the release of the ostree to coincide with the release of the images
17:39:24 <kushal> dustymabe, release of ostree means?
17:39:39 <jbrooks> taking it out of bodhi's hands seems simplest
17:39:53 <dustymabe> kushal: i.e. a new commit gets written to an ostree repo and the ref gets updated to point to that commit
17:40:09 <dustymabe> we have a draft of a proposal for doing this
17:40:18 <dustymabe> i'll update the list with this information
17:40:27 <kushal> dustymabe, okay, but I thought that has to be done before we can generate the atomic images.
17:40:31 <kushal> I must be wrong.
17:40:32 <dustymabe> i'm also planning to reach out to releng to talk with them about this change
17:41:09 <jbrooks> dustymabe, oooh, sort of related -- we don't have any updates-testing ref yet for 25
17:41:12 <dustymabe> kushal: right it does need to be done, but there is a subtlety
17:41:17 <linuxmodder> .fas linuxmodder
17:41:18 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
17:41:20 <linuxmodder> (late)
17:41:22 <dustymabe> jbrooks: yeah, that is something else that I want
17:41:27 <jbrooks> We need that
17:41:36 <dustymabe> I think I'm going to try to add that myself (soon after I learn more about the process)
17:41:47 <dustymabe> I'm going to use it as a learning experience if that is ok
17:42:02 <dustymabe> linuxmodder: welcome!
17:42:03 <jbrooks> sounds good
17:42:58 <dustymabe> kushal: I'll write to the list with this information
17:43:14 <kushal> dustymabe, Thanks :)
17:44:04 <dustymabe> np
17:45:01 <kushal> Now any ideas about how to improve the working group?
17:45:21 <kushal> dustymabe, btw, feel free to add an action item :)
17:46:07 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to try to meet with releng to learn more about ostree composes and ways to change things
17:47:19 <dustymabe> kushal: ideas on how to improve the WG?
17:47:21 <kushal> Did we miss any other actionable item?
17:47:41 <dustymabe> kushal: if others could it would be good to test/karma that k8s update
17:47:54 <dustymabe> kushal, you or linuxmodder or anyone else
17:48:04 <dustymabe> if anyone agrees then we can action that
17:48:06 <kushal> dustymabe, improve == like you mentioned about a lot of technical debt.
17:48:36 <kushal> #action kushal to test https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-fffea4b1c3 after he wakes up
17:48:39 <kushal> dustymabe,  done :)
17:49:22 <linuxmodder> dustymabe,  sorry got pulled away what now
17:49:46 <dustymabe> kushal: I guess what I mean is that for the most part this group is disjoint and not very well organized. half the time we don't know when things fail to build or even where to look
17:50:09 <linuxmodder> dustymabe,  ah re: k8s update karma ?
17:50:22 <kushal> dustymabe, yes, that is mostly not from issues related to working group.
17:50:23 <dustymabe> even if we do identify a problem. we open a ticket and don't follow up
17:50:29 <kushal> We are dependent on many other teams.
17:50:44 <dustymabe> kushal: right, that is true
17:51:03 <dustymabe> I just think we need to grasp those dependencies better and manage "what is coming down the pipe":
17:51:13 <dustymabe> so if you have suggestions on how we do that better
17:51:24 <dustymabe> then that would definitely be something we can improve
17:51:27 <linuxmodder> i see dustymabe 's point tho it has become as if we are going the way of hop scotch with the WG on communication and tech debt
17:51:56 <kushal> dustymabe, For example rel-eng is started to have some documentation done, that will help us to understand many points.
17:52:09 <kushal> linuxmodder, ?
17:52:31 <kushal> linuxmodder, I have no clue of what you just now said.
17:52:35 <dustymabe> kushal: yeah. I think we need to be more proactive though
17:52:38 <kushal> Sorry, not a native English speaker.
17:52:42 <kushal> dustymabe, True.
17:52:48 <dustymabe> i.e. if we really want documentation, then we need to help them make it
17:53:12 <dustymabe> we'll either annoy them enough (in a good way) that they'll be sure to get it written, or we'll learn enough to write it ourselves
17:53:22 <kushal> dustymabe, we can make our own docs (and we are not doing that properly), I don't know how to help other teams.
17:53:24 <linuxmodder> even tho to the avg user atomic can seem abstract the lack of docs and a visible core of users to go to makes things worse for the WG imo
17:53:24 <dustymabe> and contribute back
17:53:48 <dustymabe> linuxmodder: agreed. I think this will all get better over time
17:54:02 <dustymabe> we have had people write docs in the past, but then no one aggregating them and curating them
17:54:25 <dustymabe> I don't even want to write docs because they would just poof away because we don't have someone to do that
17:54:27 <linuxmodder> as a member of -dcos myself I'm down for helpign with edits and getting any docs we do get written out there
17:54:28 <maxamillion> dustymabe: also a poitn of note, right now there's a major knowledge transfer happening from dgilmore to mboddu and mboddu is being kind enough to write up docs on everything (he's the newest member of the Fedora RelEng group and will be taking over for dgilmore on a lot of things so that dgilmore can work on other items)
17:55:03 <dustymabe> maxamillion: agree.. TBH they should make that a series of meetings and recommend everyone in fedora attend
17:55:04 <linuxmodder> dustymabe,  not offering to do the initial but more than willing to maintain them with possibly one other contrib once started up
17:55:26 <dustymabe> linuxmodder: thanks!
17:55:44 <kushal> linuxmodder, problem is about new content, we can maintain if we have actual content.
17:55:58 <dustymabe> i honestly think we have plenty of casual contributors that would make very good contributions if we have a group of people to help them
17:56:17 <dustymabe> kushal: I'm going to have some new content very soon
17:56:20 <linuxmodder> once we get a baseline draft would anyone object to doing a monthly  end user poll of sorts of what they want / need in that to steer the docs
17:56:31 <kushal> dustymabe, please send in PR to https://github.com/fedora-cloud/fedoracloud for the same :)
17:56:57 <kushal> linuxmodder, jsmith volunteered to help to fix any docs get submitted (from the docs team side).
17:57:10 <kushal> linuxmodder, But our problem is that we could not generate enough content.
17:57:20 <maxamillion> dustymabe: also for reference, docs are all now here https://docs.pagure.org/releng/ and they are sphinx-doc reStructuredText in the releng pagure repo -> https://pagure.io/releng/blob/master/f/docs
17:57:25 <kushal> jbrooks, this reminds me, we need our k8s related docs there.
17:57:26 <linuxmodder> kushal,  in any sub area or overall
17:57:35 <kushal> linuxmodder, overall
17:57:47 <dustymabe> can someone send an email to our list about "where to send docs?"
17:57:54 <kushal> dustymabe, I will
17:57:58 <dustymabe> or even better yet, make a wiki page that we can link to?
17:58:07 <linuxmodder> is there any present draft linkable anywhere atm even if its a git doc
17:58:09 <maxamillion> dustymabe: there's a new policy that if you change code, it needs docs updates too or else the PR won't be merged (when applicable)
17:58:10 <kushal> #action kushal to send reminder to list about where to send the docs.
17:58:15 <dustymabe> kushal: also link to those releng resources that maxamillion just referenced
17:58:20 <kushal> linuxmodder, I just now shared a link
17:58:21 <jbrooks> kushal, OK
17:58:22 <kushal> dustymabe, Yes.
17:58:34 <kushal> maxamillion, awesome, finally
17:58:38 <linuxmodder> lagging some sorry
17:58:45 <linuxmodder> see it now
17:58:47 <dustymabe> #action kushal to create wiki page on documentation for atomic WG and send mail to the list
17:59:03 <kushal> maxamillion, All good projects, like Qt, Mariadb, Django has the same rule iirc
17:59:08 <jberkus> linuxmodder: what's your github ID?  I'll have some docs for you to review soon
17:59:25 <dustymabe> jberkus: and where are your docs going?
17:59:30 <linuxmodder> jberkus,  linux-modder
17:59:30 <dustymabe> projectatomic.io?
17:59:39 <kushal> dustymabe, btw, what to put in that wiki page for docs?
17:59:40 <jberkus> projectatomic.io; we dont have another place for them AFAIK
17:59:45 <dustymabe> we should consider joining our resources
17:59:51 <dustymabe> kushal: ^^
17:59:59 <kushal> dustymabe, I was thinking to add the docs links to the the page. Like one place to read all the docs.
18:00:00 <maxamillion> kushal: +1
18:00:21 <linuxmodder> jberkus,  linux-modder ?
18:00:26 <linuxmodder> dustymabe,  what's wrong with keeping on pa.io and linking to pagure for upstream work on docs etc?
18:00:27 <kushal> dustymabe, Yup, or at least add a copy in our repo too
18:00:56 <linuxmodder> kushal,  +1 on the repo copy
18:01:07 <kushal> linuxmodder, because right now there are way too many places to look for, also people do not know if things are updated or not.
18:01:12 <dustymabe> linuxmodder: pa.io is fine. I'm thinking we should actually just use pa.io
18:01:21 <jbrooks> kushal, I think our wg pagure is a good place, actually
18:01:26 <jberkus> for pa.io, I'd love to move them out to a separate repo for RTD eventually, but don't currently have the technical setup for it
18:01:37 <dustymabe> RTD?
18:01:38 <jbrooks> Ok
18:01:42 <jberkus> readthedocs
18:01:47 <dustymabe> oh got ya
18:01:48 <jbrooks> Oh, sorry, I'm confused
18:01:51 <jberkus> or more specifically, docs.projectatomic.io
18:01:53 <kushal> jberkus, rtfd :p
18:02:11 <jbrooks> Heh, let's just write them wherever and figure out where to put them from there
18:02:12 <dustymabe> kushal: do you have experience doing that?
18:02:17 <dustymabe> could you help jberkus ?
18:02:18 <kushal> jbrooks, it is just a git repo of sphinx docs, we can put it inside our pagure.
18:02:45 <jbrooks> kushal, right, I thought this was about that github repo vs our pagure repo
18:02:46 <jberkus> kushal: that's not the issue.  we have a stalled project to composite-build docs for all the PA subprojects
18:02:52 <kushal> dustymabe, yes, and I know the rtfd devels too, so if required we can ask for help.
18:02:58 <linuxmodder> who is maintainign pa.io atm in the WG ?  would it be hard to do a webhook or similiar for the repos to update on pa.io
18:03:05 <jberkus> based on pulling from a bunch of different repos
18:03:26 <kushal> jberkus, I can help you to find volunteers if you want.
18:03:50 <linuxmodder> in my last ?  more like docs.pagure.io/ regularly updating to docs.pa.io via commit or cron
18:03:54 <kushal> Okay, people we are 3 minute overtime, but I am so happy that we are talking about documentation for such a long time.
18:03:54 <jberkus> that would make integration with, for example, paguire docs much easier
18:04:19 <kushal> jberkus, pagure has power to do rtfd.io
18:04:28 <kushal> jberkus, so we are covered from that side :)
18:04:43 <linuxmodder> kushal,  and easily link back to pa.io ?
18:04:55 <kushal> linuxmodder, what do you mean?
18:05:22 <kushal> linuxmodder, links are standard rst link, one has to write them manually.
18:05:23 <linuxmodder> where docs.pa.io or similar  auto updates to the most current `stable` copy on rtfd.io
18:05:48 <linuxmodder> like a gh.io page does from a gh repo
18:06:09 <kushal> yes, that is why people use readthedocs in the first place.
18:06:40 <kushal> We push to our git repos say github or pagure. All our docs automatically gets rebuild
18:06:48 <kushal> Anyway, I am going to end the meeting now.
18:07:07 <kushal> I am planning to write a blog post from this discussion, is that okay for everyone?
18:07:19 <jbrooks> +1
18:07:22 <linuxmodder> +1
18:07:27 <vvaldez> +1
18:07:36 <kushal> Like with the details of different pain points as mentioned by dustymabe.
18:07:43 * vvaldez is trying to dual-meeting, apologies
18:07:56 <dustymabe> vvaldez: thanks for being here
18:07:57 <linuxmodder> kushal, consider throwing on a planet feed too ( or with perm I will repost via mine)
18:08:05 <jberkus> doesn't someone else have this channel now?  maybe we should move to fedora-cloud?
18:08:07 <maxamillion> +1
18:08:17 <linuxmodder> only dual ?   whimp :)
18:08:22 <vvaldez> ;)
18:08:22 <kushal> linuxmodder, I am on the Fedora planet from the time it came up I think.
18:08:46 <kushal> #endmeeting