16:59:52 #startmeeting fpc 16:59:52 Meeting started Thu Dec 15 16:59:52 2016 UTC. The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:59:52 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:59:52 The meeting name has been set to 'fpc' 16:59:52 #meetingname fpc 16:59:52 The meeting name has been set to 'fpc' 16:59:52 #topic Roll Call 17:00:31 * limburgher here 17:01:06 #chair limburgher 17:01:06 Current chairs: geppetto limburgher 17:01:37 Uh, lots of people not on IRC 17:01:45 Hey, folks. I'm at home with a cold but I'm around. 17:01:46 No new tickets though 17:01:50 #chair tibbs 17:01:50 Current chairs: geppetto limburgher tibbs 17:01:53 * geppetto nods 17:02:04 .hello 17:02:04 ignatenkobrain: (hello ) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1". 17:02:40 .hello ignatenkobrain 17:02:41 ignatenkobrain: ignatenkobrain 'Igor Gnatenko' 17:04:17 December in general is tough for meetings. 17:04:43 yeh, esp. the end 17:05:02 Not sure I'll make it next week, and def. not the week after 17:05:05 Yeah. 17:05:32 On the upside, everyone else is busy too … so no new tickets :) 17:05:42 I can probably to next week, but I imagine that attendance will be so light that we shouldn't sweat it. 17:05:46 hi 17:05:52 * limburgher waves 17:08:03 #chair Rathann 17:08:03 Current chairs: Rathann geppetto limburgher tibbs 17:08:05 hey 17:10:01 no quorum yet, huh 17:10:18 =( 17:10:44 I made updates for guidelines stuck for 2 months and now you say no quorum ;) 17:11:06 btw, how many people is needed for quorum? 17:11:08 5 17:11:09 5 17:11:12 ignatenkobrain: think of it as a reverse xmas present 17:11:36 Not really sure what you expected at holiday time. 17:11:47 tibbs: it's not yet holiday time ;) 17:12:04 holidays starting from next week 17:12:17 that doesn't mean people aren't out shopping 17:12:22 especially in the EU 17:12:32 In the U.S., the December holiday season begins somewhere between January and June. 17:12:55 limburgher: heh, in russia partially same 17:12:56 ha 17:13:11 1-10 of Jan is the NY holidays 17:14:27 Might get tomspur at 40 past. And we can always talk about things. 17:14:47 Everyone want to wait around until then? 17:15:05 I can. 17:15:27 I'm here regardless. 17:17:15 I'm reviewing ignatenkobrain's patches 17:17:49 ignatenkobrain: I like the new macro names (with vpath) 17:17:57 Rathann: everything for you ;) 17:18:20 but I don't like your tendency to mix cosmetic and functional changes in one commit (e.g. https://src.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/pitivi.git/commit/?id=9252c9b41cf3f1f227a58d40a0de065e3eed2391) 17:18:37 makes it harder to see what's actually changed 17:18:59 yeah, I know. Sorry for that. When I realized that I commited everything at once was hard to split things 17:19:20 I'll take it up with his sponsor. 17:19:43 I don't care in general, but if that's supposed to be used as an example then the other changes get in the way of that. 17:19:46 * limburgher sends self sternly worded email 17:20:31 tibbs: it was not example, it was something what I had to do, because people are don't care about *FLAGS and such stuff 17:20:32 ignatenkobrain: if you realized after committing then there was still time to amend the commits before pushing 17:20:55 because they don't know that there is some macro exist 17:21:01 but that's orthogonal to the meson guidelines 17:21:28 Rathann: what do you mean? 17:21:37 limburgher: hehe 17:22:46 ignatenkobrain: one thing is still confusing a bit (to someone who doesn't know anything about ninja and meson) 17:22:59 tell me and I will fix it 17:23:40 you speak of Meson in one sentence and of ninja in the next as if they're the same thing, but are they? it's not explained anywhere 17:24:25 a one sentence explanation of the relationship between the two would help a lot 17:24:52 oops 17:24:55 you mean this one: This document provides best-practices for usage of ninja in packaging RPMs for Fedora. 17:25:05 I copy-pasted it from ninja page, meh 17:25:30 there's a link to https://ninja-build.org/ as well 17:25:38 I will write one line what meson is and what's the difference between meson and ninja 17:25:49 ok 17:25:56 I'm +1 once that's done 17:26:00 * ignatenkobrain does 17:26:51 also, you should do s/__builddir/_vpath_builddir/g I guess 17:27:04 in the example spec 17:27:34 and the macro descriptions above it 17:29:16 thought I did 17:29:29 ah I see 17:31:02 This document provides best-practices for usage of The Meson Build System in packaging RPMs for Fedora. Meson is a buildsystem like automake (it generates code for make) which can generate code for some of low-level buildsystems, primary one is ninja (but you should not care since macro does everything for you). 17:31:25 * ignatenkobrain always had problem with writing such text 17:31:48 not bad 17:32:05 I'd drop the part in parentheses and rephrase the end of the sentence: 17:32:38 ... generate code for lower-level build systems, for example ninja(link). 17:33:02 Don't worry too much about it. I can clean up grammar and such, but I need the factual info to be there in some form because I don't want to have to make things up. 17:33:11 exactly 17:33:30 #chair orionp 17:33:30 Current chairs: Rathann geppetto limburgher orionp tibbs 17:33:37 and then there were five... 17:33:38 hello 17:33:43 woo 17:34:04 orionp: we've been discussing https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/655 17:34:05 Rathann: I just wanted to highlight that it's important to use %meson_install instead of %ninja_install, because in theory it could change 17:34:09 since ignatenkobrain is here 17:34:17 #topic Schedule 17:34:19 ignatenkobrain: that's fine 17:34:19 https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/K54GXHASHPYICMY442SY5UTSPN2RVVU2/ 17:34:57 ignatenkobrain: but you should actually write what you just said instead of "you should not care because macro does everythin" 17:35:02 So 655 first? 17:35:08 #topic #655 meson buildsystem guidelines 17:35:11 .fpc 655 17:35:13 geppetto: #655 (meson buildsystem guidelines) – fpc - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/655 17:35:29 I'm +1 with the changes we've just discussed 17:35:46 done 17:36:15 great 17:37:22 ah, one small nit-pick: the example spec has libangelscript.so in %{_libdir}, which is actually non-compliant (SO version is missing) 17:37:53 but we can fix that while writing it up into the official guidelines 17:38:03 I just didn't want to write whole spec file 17:38:10 but easy to fix 17:38:37 are there changes to the draft that were discussed on irc that aren't written up yet? 17:38:50 orionp: just check the latest version 17:38:52 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Meson 17:40:18 anyhow, fixed 17:40:23 _vpath_source doesn't normally need to be overridden, right? 17:40:43 cool, I'm still +1 17:40:52 geppetto: in 99% of cases 17:40:58 same as for _vpath_builddir 17:41:07 Is it actually _vpath_scredir ? 17:41:20 With the 'e' in "srcedir"? 17:41:24 * Rathann guesses it's a typo 17:41:36 I'm +1 17:41:38 ignatenkobrain is known for typos ;) 17:41:48 yeh, no typo in the example 17:41:57 can't find srcedir 17:42:03 ah 17:42:04 I see 17:42:09 :D 17:42:20 fxd 17:42:22 Can we add a tiny bit of wording then saying that the _vath dirs. normally won't be overridden? 17:42:30 Thanks. 17:42:33 Or maybe a comment in the example? 17:42:53 geppetto: I think for this we should write some small page / section about _vpath_* 17:43:02 because since it's going to rh-rpm-config 17:43:10 it can be used in other buildsystems 17:43:27 * geppetto nods … fair enough 17:43:33 cmake and autotools supports it very good (not sure about latter one) 17:43:49 I'm +1 17:43:53 Unfortunately I don't know best place for describing this 2 variables 17:44:23 We can worry about the proper place once something else actually makes use of them. 17:45:26 We would just remove mention of _vpath* from this document and replace with a note like "These macros support _vpath_whatever as described at ". 17:47:09 Sounds good to me 17:47:23 +1 17:47:55 So still at +3, atm 17:47:56 yep 17:48:05 +1 17:48:06 +1 17:48:29 #chair 17:48:29 Current chairs: Rathann geppetto limburgher orionp tibbs 17:48:35 Ok, that's eveyrone 17:48:40 #action meson buildsystem guidelines (+1:5, 0:0, -1:0) 17:49:00 I may add a comment to the example spec to say you won't normally need to override _vpath_srcdir when I do the writeup. 17:49:26 * geppetto nods 17:50:06 Will, of course, also add a link from the main guidelines. 17:50:50 #topic #665 SSLCertificateHandling policy update 17:50:53 .fpc 665 17:50:55 geppetto: #665 (SSLCertificateHandling policy update) – fpc - https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/665 17:51:02 Any more changes going to happen before I move that draft into place? 17:54:21 OK, it's live at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Meson 17:54:54 great 17:54:55 Will do some minor tweaks but at least it's there now. 17:54:56 cool 17:55:57 tibbs++ 17:55:57 ignatenkobrain: Karma for tibbs changed to 3 (for the f25 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:56:26 665 is a bit messy 17:56:55 for example, the whole https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Pkcs11Support#How_to_specify_a_specific_smart_card.2FHSM seems to be almost the same as the first sentence of the next section 17:57:57 I have never really been able to comprehend this guideline. 17:58:28 * ignatenkobrain didn't read whole ticket, but this page doesn't give me as for packager anything what I could use 17:58:29 maybe it's obvious to someone else, but there's no explanation in what scenarios an application would want/need to specify a smart card/HSM (and not a certificate stored on it) 17:59:20 or, I might be not experienced enough 18:01:05 Well I don't think anyone here has a pkcs11 smart card, right? 18:01:14 So experience is going to be limited :( 18:02:13 I think the only reason the existing page is there is because we all just collectively said that we had no idea. 18:02:17 well there are software-defined HSMs 18:03:04 softhsm is packaged for Fedora 18:04:21 sadly, nmav is not online 18:04:26 tibbs: yeh, I did get david to read through it … and he said it looked fine 18:04:47 geppetto: David who? 18:04:58 dwmw2 18:05:02 ah 18:05:07 .nextmeetings 18:05:07 smdeep: One moment, please... Looking up the channel list. 18:05:10 smdeep: In #fedora-meeting is Fedora UK Ambassadors (starting in 2 hours) 18:05:13 smdeep: In #fedora-meeting is Magazine editorial board (starting in 3 hours) 18:05:16 smdeep: In #fedora-zh is Chinese (starting in 18 hours) 18:05:19 smdeep: In #fedora-meeting is fesco (starting in 21 hours) 18:05:23 smdeep: In #fedora-meeting-2 is Fedora Ambassadors Latam Meeting (starting in 2 days) 18:05:25 smdeep: please use /query zodbot next time 18:05:38 you're disturbing the ongoing meeting 18:05:39 smdeep: You can /msg zodbot 18:05:52 Rathann, I apologize, my bad 18:09:09 I think https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:SSLCertificateHandling#Help should be neat the top as a summary or something, But rationale is kind of similar too 18:09:14 I think we should ask nmav to provide diffs by splitting the current page and showing diffs between the relevant changed parts 18:09:28 We asked that last time 18:09:48 we did but he doesn't seem to know how 18:09:58 * geppetto nods 18:10:25 Just saying we'll/someone probably needs to give him some help if we want a better answer 18:11:04 He also didn't seem to find the various questions we asked in the actual meeting minutes, so perhaps he needs links to the lines where questions were asked. 18:11:32 yeh, I guess he didn't notice the link to the full log? 18:12:03 I can try to construct a diffable page, though instructions for doing that are in the wiki page that tells you how to submit change requests. 18:12:57 ok, let's table and move on 18:13:19 * geppetto nods 18:14:05 #topic Open Floor 18:14:10 geppetto: tibbs: Rathann: btw, who & when will apply patch for redhat-rpm-config? Need to know this before applying meson's patch. 18:14:16 I don't think any of the other older tickets have moved 18:14:34 ignatenkobrain: I can do that. 18:15:21 Is that in a bugzilla ticket somewhere? If not, let me know where the patch actially is. 18:16:01 tibbs: it's in the ticket 18:16:15 https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/attachment/ticket/655/0001-add-VPATH-macro.patch 18:17:04 OK, that's the final patch? Don't want to be accused of not being transparent or anything like that. 18:17:42 It came in after I got sick so I didn't notice. 18:17:45 tibbs: until we have section in guidelines describing how you use this variables I think it's enough 18:18:05 I've seen it's common practice to put some link to guidelines before macro 18:19:52 This is just internal stuff; it's not a huge deal. I'll commit it soon. What branches wil need this? 18:21:18 f24+ and if possible el7 18:21:53 Ah, el7 will need to go on epel-rpm-macros. Not a problem, though. 18:21:53 since el7 supports python3, meson can be included there (but at this moment I build it only in COPR) 18:22:10 s/el7/epel7/ 18:22:59 I'll get them all in and into bodhi, but you'll want to look for those updates and add your meson packages so everything goes through at the same time. 18:23:43 tibbs: I can attach meson builds into updates, just give me links once you done 18:23:58 thanks! 18:24:09 Let's hope I can actually do packaging work. 18:26:08 We still seem to be tomspur-less. 18:27:28 We got stuff done anyway. 18:27:56 * geppetto nods 18:27:57 Indeed. 18:28:22 Ok, I'll close at half past, unless anyone shouts 18:28:47 Have a good holiday, if I don't see you again. 18:29:03 Likewise. 18:30:24 #endmeeting