21:01:24 <sgallagh> #startmeeting Server Working Group Weekly Meeting (2017-01-10)
21:01:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 10 21:01:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:01:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:01:24 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'server_working_group_weekly_meeting_(2017-01-10)'
21:01:25 <sgallagh> #chair nirik sgallagh mhayden dperpeet smooge jds2001 vvaldez adamw mjwolf
21:01:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw dperpeet jds2001 mhayden mjwolf nirik sgallagh smooge vvaldez
21:01:26 <sgallagh> #topic roll call
21:01:27 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
21:01:29 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
21:01:34 <dperpeet> .hello dperpeet
21:01:35 <zodbot> dperpeet: dperpeet 'None' <dperpeet@redhat.com>
21:01:36 <mhayden> .hello mhayden
21:01:38 <jds2001> .hello jstanley
21:01:39 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <major@mhtx.net>
21:01:40 <nirik> .hello kevin
21:01:41 <zodbot> jds2001: jstanley 'Jon Stanley' <jonstanley@gmail.com>
21:01:44 <zodbot> nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' <kevin@scrye.com>
21:03:05 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
21:03:06 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
21:03:32 <sgallagh> OK, that looks like quorum to me.
21:03:39 <sgallagh> #topic agenda
21:03:53 <sgallagh> First I'll list the topics we didn't discuss last week:
21:03:58 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Bikeshed on a marketing-friendly name for the modular Server
21:03:58 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Feedback on the Domain Controller Role first draft
21:03:58 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Official media support for Fedora Server
21:03:58 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Banner images in the installer
21:03:58 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: WG Membership Check-in
21:04:08 <sgallagh> Any other topics that should go on the queue?
21:04:20 <dustymabe> sgallagh: should we start with action items from last week
21:04:54 <sgallagh> dustymabe: Maybe just report that you have an initial document and ask people to comment on it?
21:05:21 <adamw> .hello adamwill
21:05:23 <zodbot> adamw: adamwill 'Adam Williamson' <awilliam@redhat.com>
21:05:56 <sgallagh> I'd like to cover at least the membership check-in today, since it should only take a couple minutes.
21:05:58 <adamw> well, ish. i'm mostly trying to fix matplotlib on ppc64. though I have no idea why and it's way too hard for me. oh well!
21:06:05 <sgallagh> Of the other choices, what shall we cover today?
21:06:48 <dustymabe> #info mhayden and dustymabe created a document about cloud base image use cases and target users
21:06:56 <mhayden> we did!
21:07:05 <dustymabe> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/S5ERKY6SM7O4LO6HYD52A7EBBJR33P6A/
21:07:17 * nirik meant to read that before this meeting. Oh well.
21:07:20 <mjwolf> .hello mjwolf
21:07:21 <zodbot> mjwolf: mjwolf 'Michael Wolf' <mjwolf@us.ibm.com>
21:07:44 <sgallagh> mjwolf: Welcome back :)
21:08:13 <sgallagh> #action All Server WG members are requested to review the cloud image document and provide feedback before the next meeting
21:09:03 <sgallagh> OK, so votes for which topics to hit today?
21:09:22 <sgallagh> /me will decide arbitrarily if not
21:10:08 <sgallagh> Has anyone looked at the Domain Controller draft?
21:11:24 <sgallagh> OK, did I fall off IRC?
21:11:24 * nirik is ok with any of them... we need to get them all sometime
21:11:41 <dperpeet> we can start in alphabetical order
21:11:44 <sgallagh> Alright, I'll start with the check-in, followed by banner images and then DC if we get there.
21:11:45 <jds2001> sgallagh: you're still here :)
21:12:06 <sgallagh> #topic WG Membership Check-in
21:12:56 <vvaldez> .hello vvaldez
21:12:57 <zodbot> vvaldez: vvaldez 'Vinny Valdez' <vvaldez@redhat.com>
21:12:58 <sgallagh> Approximately around the same time that FESCo elections occur, the Server SIG polls the WG members for whether they feel they still have time and desire to participate.
21:13:03 <roshi> .hello roshi
21:13:04 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
21:13:06 <vvaldez> apologies
21:13:23 <sgallagh> roshi: Hey, there's a name I haven't seen in forever.
21:13:29 <roshi> I'm back :)
21:13:34 <nirik> hey roshi.
21:13:46 <roshi> o/ sgallagh and nirik
21:14:11 <smooge> is here
21:15:04 <sgallagh> The WG has rights primarily to do two things: 1) give Zodbot commands in meetings and 2) vote in the cases where consensus cannot be reached.
21:16:15 <sgallagh> I suspect that WG membership has thus effectively become "the list of people who would feel guilty about not attending a meeting".
21:16:19 * nirik still has desire to participate. Time is always at a premium.
21:16:30 <adamw> i'm still here, i guess
21:16:53 <sgallagh> For the record, I am sticking around :)
21:17:21 * jds2001 is the same as nirik - but i havae things im actively doing, so thats good.
21:17:40 <geppetto> 👍
21:17:40 <adamw> i don't really have a crazy amount of time but i try to be around when needed for qa-y things...
21:17:43 <sgallagh> My question was mostly: does WG membership offer anything usefui, or should we just return to Server WG == Server SIG == whoever shows up?
21:18:13 <dperpeet> I would like to continue and I think that without "membership" I would make it to fewer meetings
21:18:24 <jds2001> me too.
21:18:24 <nirik> well, being able to vote does provide advantages... in rare cases. ;)
21:18:31 <sgallagh> dperpeet: That is a fair point.
21:18:56 <sgallagh> OK, then I won't make a motion for any changes today.
21:19:01 <sgallagh> Just something that was stewing in my head.
21:19:19 <sgallagh> OK, is there anyone currently holding a seat in the WG that wishes to step down?
21:20:04 <sgallagh> mjwolf: I know you've been out of touch for a while; I figured we should ask you directly.
21:20:25 <nirik> is there anyone who hasn't been to meetings in a while?
21:20:32 <vvaldez> I don’t know that I’ve provided anything extra useful yet, but I hope to once we get further into roles. I’m happy to continue holding a seat unless someone with more time/ambition needs one
21:21:17 <mjwolf> I have been on vacation.  they other thing that happened was that the meeting fell off my calendar.  I've manually added it in and plan to attend the meetings
21:21:40 <vvaldez> of course I say this as I am late (first time though) :) I’ve only missed a copule of meetings due to all-day in person meeting conflicts
21:21:53 <sgallagh> OK, sounds like everyone wants to stick around.
21:22:10 <sgallagh> #info All currently-seated members of the WG would like to retain their seats.
21:22:34 <sgallagh> Let's move on.
21:22:43 <sgallagh> #topic Banner images in the installer
21:23:15 <sgallagh> A thread went out that the banner images in Anaconda are being redesigned. This also provides a good opportunity to discuss whether we have additional content we'd like shown in the Server installer.
21:23:28 <sgallagh> At present, the only server-specific banner is Cockpit.
21:23:55 <nirik> I think an ansible one might be cool...
21:24:02 <sgallagh> nirik: +1
21:24:34 <nirik> perhaps one about contributing? but that might be something we could share over all editions... 'see whatcanidoforfedora.org to see how you can help' ?
21:25:15 <sgallagh> I thought we had one of those, but pagure.io isn't responding...
21:25:49 <jds2001> nirik: i thought that join.fp.o was already prominet
21:25:58 <sgallagh> nirik: I'm not sure if that's a general-purpose one or better on Workstation, though
21:26:18 <nirik> I can't recall... ;)
21:26:22 * nirik is poking pagure.
21:26:30 <nirik> should be back in a min here.
21:26:47 <dperpeet> I think ansible would be good
21:26:53 <dperpeet> especially since we want to use that more also
21:27:10 <sgallagh> jds2001: You're right, we do have join.fp.o in a banner
21:27:25 <geppetto> sgallagh: Modularity?
21:27:27 <vvaldez> definitely a little info about the server wg and possibly pointer to our vision/mission statements
21:27:32 <jds2001> cockpit would be good.....like "after we're done, go to https://<ip>:9090 to get started right away!
21:27:35 <sgallagh> I'd suggest that join.fp.o is in desperate need of a redesign though
21:27:55 <jds2001> though not exactly sure how to say that :)
21:28:11 <sgallagh> #link https://pagure.io/design/issue/438#comment-45868
21:28:19 <sgallagh> jds2001: We have that, more or less
21:28:43 <sgallagh> geppetto: Modularity won't be ready for general consumption in F26; it's going to be a non-blocking PoC
21:28:53 <sgallagh> Also, I'm not sure how you'd make a banner for that.
21:29:09 <sgallagh> I think the purpose here is to help people figure out what the thing they are *currently* installing can do
21:29:19 <geppetto> yeh, fair enough :)
21:29:34 <sgallagh> geppetto: Thanks for the suggestion though!
21:30:01 <sgallagh> See the link I posted above for a peek at the proposed banners and the current Cockpit one
21:30:15 <nirik> we could have some on available roles?
21:30:16 <sgallagh> vvaldez: I like that idea; maybe we can think up a slogan collectively?
21:30:31 <vvaldez> that makes sense
21:30:44 <sgallagh> nirik: Well, we don't have any of those yet :)
21:30:56 <sgallagh> And the one we're working on will appear for all intents and purposes as a Cockpit feature
21:30:58 <nirik> true.
21:31:02 <sgallagh> (Irrespective of the underlying implementation)
21:31:02 <dperpeet> sgallagh, thanks for the link - the cockpit one is surprisingly verbose
21:31:23 <sgallagh> dperpeet: That is likely to see a redesign.
21:32:08 <sgallagh> OK, just to make sure: Does anyone feel that we should *not* have one for Cockpit and one for Ansible?
21:32:19 <sgallagh> We can make those official decisions, at least.
21:32:38 <sgallagh> Then bikeshed on our SIG slogan
21:33:18 <jds2001> sgallagh: +1 to cockpit and ansible at least
21:33:22 <nirik> +1
21:33:29 <mjwolf> +1
21:33:31 <vvaldez> +1 for both
21:33:41 <adamw> sure
21:33:58 <adamw> i feel like maybe there's a cockpit banner already, but imbw. maybe i'm mixing it up with the MOTD.
21:34:08 <sgallagh> adamw: There is, but it needs a redesign
21:34:12 <sgallagh> To match the new style
21:34:16 <jds2001> adamw: there is
21:34:42 <sgallagh> Mostly this is us reiterating that we want it there and that it's worth the effort of redesigning
21:35:08 * jds2001 agrees with dperpeet that it is quite verbose as is.
21:35:15 <sgallagh> #agreed Server SIG would like to see a banner ad for Cockpit describing how to access it and to promote Ansible for management.
21:35:38 <jds2001> maybe some other relevant things too, like freeipa?
21:35:47 <sgallagh> dperpeet: Would you be willing to work with the design team on the Cockpit banner redesign (and possibly some shorter copy)?
21:36:07 <dperpeet> sgallagh, sure, but I think they will contact andreasn anyway
21:36:10 <jds2001> katello? (though that sorta goes against ansible)
21:36:20 <sgallagh> jds2001: I'd be more in favor of FreeIPA if we had our improved install process available, but I'm open to it.
21:36:45 <sgallagh> dperpeet: Perhaps I should have said "would you mind coordinating that?"
21:36:58 <dperpeet> sgallagh, and I would have said, "sure, no problem"
21:37:10 <sgallagh> #action dperpeet to coordinate between Design Team and Cockpit Team for an updated Cockpit banner
21:37:50 <sgallagh> General thoughts on a FreeIPA banner?
21:38:09 <smooge> Does the FreeIPA team have one?
21:38:21 <sgallagh> smooge: They have stickers...
21:39:01 <smooge> I guess I should have been clearer. Do they have someone like dperpeet who can help coordinate making a sticker into a banner
21:39:21 <smooge> Or are we it? :)
21:39:25 <sgallagh> smooge: Good question. Presumably someone is in charge of their visual design.
21:39:38 <sgallagh> (They converted to PatternFly fairly recently)
21:40:00 <sgallagh> But let's assume we're not responsible for designing it, just deciding if it's worth doing.
21:40:15 <dperpeet> devconf is also a good place to find a few designers to brainstorm banner ideas
21:40:16 <smooge> I think it would be good to have something we focus on
21:40:21 <sgallagh> So... would it be? I'm leaning to +1, though as I said, the difficulty of setup makes me hesitate a little.
21:40:26 <sgallagh> dperpeet++
21:40:26 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for dperpeet changed to 1 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
21:40:53 <smooge> sgallagh, of our roles which one would be happy to send someone to?
21:41:05 <sgallagh> smooge: Today we don't really have any :)
21:41:15 <dperpeet> I think it would be worth if there's significant progress in making freeipa easy to consume
21:41:26 <sgallagh> In F26 though, we should have NFS, but that's kind of hard to advertise.
21:41:39 <dperpeet> freeipa deserves some image polish
21:41:51 <sgallagh> dperpeet: Yeah, I think upstream has been discussing a logo redesign as well
21:41:55 <dperpeet> "hey, check out how easy it is now"
21:42:03 <sgallagh> /me nods
21:42:35 <sgallagh> OK, maybe revisit it in F27 when we might actually have such a role in Cockpit?
21:42:39 <dperpeet> something like "atomic run cockpit/ws"
21:42:42 * jds2001 wants some openshift love, but im not sure if that fits
21:42:54 <dperpeet> if there were something similar for freeipa
21:43:05 <sgallagh> jds2001: Probably worth recommending for the Atomic installer, actually
21:43:22 <sgallagh> dperpeet: The upstream FreeIPA docker image is... not ideal
21:43:22 <dperpeet> yes, I think we should push freeipa back until we're sure it's actually easy to use
21:44:44 <sgallagh> I'm convinced.
21:45:02 <smooge> ok same here
21:45:07 <sgallagh> #info We considered a FreeIPA banner, but we're going to hold off on it until we have an improved deployment option.
21:45:34 <sgallagh> vvaldez: Want to lead us in a brainstorming exercise on a Server SIG promotional banner and slogan?
21:45:40 <sgallagh> /me passes the back
21:45:43 <sgallagh> *buck
21:45:57 <vvaldez> sgallagh: sure, when? now?
21:46:14 <sgallagh> We've got fifteen minutes left, may as well :)
21:46:28 <vvaldez> in the ticket there’s a link to the centos banner which lists all the sigs, I liked that
21:46:57 <vvaldez> https://pagure.io/design/issue/raw/files/ccedf7827a0a87e18092a8ab739739c4696c4d6cea5e4a357591db1d311464de-centos7-anaconda.png
21:47:22 <vvaldez> each sig has a logo/icon, link to their landing page, and a quick sentence
21:47:58 <sgallagh> /me nods
21:48:10 <vvaldez> we don’t need a full page, but maybe along with ansible/cockpit we could do something similar
21:48:21 <sgallagh> vvaldez: Those aren't a full-page ad
21:48:30 <sgallagh> Someone just made a combined image; each of those is a separate banner
21:48:35 <vvaldez> ah ok
21:49:20 <sgallagh> I'm not sure how our Server Edition logo will fit in there.
21:49:32 <sgallagh> Especially since it will already be present in the upper-left of the screen
21:49:46 <vvaldez> any thoughts on mission/vission statement? a shorter version of one or the other?
21:49:59 <sgallagh> But maybe if we come up with the copy, we can leave it to the designers to solve the visuals
21:50:37 <sgallagh> vvaldez: The problem with shortening them is that we already distilled them pretty far.
21:51:13 <sgallagh> But I like the general layout of the CentOS banners; let's figure out what to put in the copy and leave it to the deisngers after that.
21:51:16 <jds2001> "Fedora server: it rocks!" :)
21:51:38 <sgallagh> jds2001: Too obvious :-P
21:51:42 <vvaldez> “Fedora Server: All your containers are belong to us!”
21:51:47 <sgallagh> ...
21:51:50 <vvaldez> sorry
21:52:02 <vvaldez> did I just lose my seat?
21:52:04 <sgallagh> Actually, that brings up another point
21:52:15 <sgallagh> Let's try to avoid untranslatable idioms
21:52:24 <dperpeet> sgallagh +1
21:52:32 <nirik> Fedora Server: Fast, New and Leading the way
21:52:38 <sgallagh> nirik++
21:52:38 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for kevin changed to 15 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
21:53:17 <smooge> I liked what vvladez earlier line
21:53:20 <sgallagh> Presumably, they already know what it's for, since they're installing it.
21:53:35 <smooge> Fedora Server: It just makes sense
21:53:53 <sgallagh> So we don't need to really advertise the edition itself there...
21:53:58 <vvaldez> I like it, looking at vision and mission statements in the taiga board, not sure either of those would fit, so it makes sense to have a short catch phrase of sorts
21:54:06 <sgallagh> But we should talk about the *SIG*
21:54:39 <sgallagh> Fedora Server SIG: Bringing the future of computing to you. Today.
21:54:40 <smooge> Fedora Server: Because You Know What Your Doing
21:55:03 <smooge> oh the sig different thing
21:55:22 <nirik> Fedora Server: Compute on the leading edge
21:55:41 <smooge> Fedora Server NSA: Because We Know What Your Doing
21:55:44 <sgallagh> nirik: These would be great for some around-the-web ads.
21:55:52 <sgallagh> But in the installer, they've already decided to run Server.
21:55:56 <nirik> true...
21:56:08 <sgallagh> So what I'm suggesting is trying to entice people to join the SIG
21:56:08 <smooge> Fedora Server SIG: Help design the future, today
21:56:30 <sgallagh> smooge: I like it
21:56:46 <sgallagh> Much better call-to-action than mine above
21:56:52 <vvaldez> short and sweet, to the point
21:57:53 <vvaldez> and sorry, earlier I said taiga, that was the board from flock, I meant koninahr
21:58:04 <vvaldez> kolinahr
21:58:05 <sgallagh> no worries
21:58:30 <vvaldez> Just to have it in the links: http://kolinahr.herokuapp.com/edit/57d05a6984338834000515c9
21:58:52 <sgallagh> vvaldez: Huh.. that one is still up?
21:58:57 <sgallagh> The canonical location is https://kolinahr.fedorainfracloud.org/edit/57ff81347b76717eefcbc44b now
21:58:59 <vvaldez> so we like: “Fedora Server SIG: Help design the future, today”
21:59:04 <sgallagh> vvaldez: +1
21:59:12 <nirik> yeah, not bad.
21:59:20 <sgallagh> And then a link to our landing page underneath
21:59:30 <sgallagh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server
21:59:46 <sgallagh> (Which needs some updating, but we can add that as a task before F26 launch)
22:00:27 <sgallagh> Anyone opposed?
22:00:59 <dperpeet> sounds good
22:01:06 <mjwolf> sounds fine to me
22:01:31 * nirik is ok with it, and has to go here soon.
22:01:36 <vvaldez> #agreed installer banner with a pointer to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server and a motto: “Fedora Server SIG: Help design the future, today”
22:01:42 <sgallagh> #agreed We also want a banner reading "Fedora Server SIG | Help design the future, today | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server" in similar style to the CentOS SIG banners
22:01:47 <sgallagh> heh
22:01:50 <jds2001> +1 here
22:01:52 <vvaldez> oops
22:01:59 <dperpeet> we are very agreed it seems
22:02:03 <sgallagh> vvaldez: Not a problem. We are united!
22:02:07 <vvaldez> awesome
22:02:27 <sgallagh> #action sgallagh to return this feedback to the design team ticket
22:02:38 <sgallagh> #topic Open Floor
22:03:15 <sgallagh> Oh, one brief announcement: we will have a meeting next week, but the week after that I will be traveling to Brno, CZ for DevConf and probably won't be able to make it to the meeting.
22:03:30 <sgallagh> So either someone else will need to chair or we will skip a week.
22:04:01 <dperpeet> and the week after that I will be in Brno
22:04:04 <sgallagh> (Actually, I might or might not be available for the meeting the following week either, depending on whether my return flight gets delayed)
22:05:10 <vvaldez> I have nothing else
22:05:24 <sgallagh> OK, I'll ask next week if anyone wants to chair the 2017-01-17 and/or 2017-01-31 meeting
22:05:35 <sgallagh> Thanks for coming, folks
22:05:39 <sgallagh> #endmeeting