16:00:17 <geppetto> #startmeeting fpc
16:00:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 16 16:00:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:17 <geppetto> #meetingname fpc
16:00:17 <geppetto> #topic Roll Call
16:00:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:42 <orionp> hello
16:00:53 <tibbs> I would suspect that since the time zones are wacky that we'll probably lose some people.
16:01:01 <geppetto> #chair tibbs
16:01:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto tibbs
16:01:03 <geppetto> #chair orionp
16:01:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto orionp tibbs
16:01:14 <geppetto> Maybe, but given the extensive Schedule it doesn't really matter
16:01:26 <tibbs> Indeed.
16:01:45 <tibbs> Very little is new.  I can't even remember if there was something I was supposed to do.
16:01:46 <racor> hi
16:01:49 <tibbs> It's spring break after all.
16:01:53 <geppetto> #chair racor
16:01:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto orionp racor tibbs
16:01:56 <geppetto> ha
16:02:04 <geppetto> You partying in mexico then?
16:02:12 <geppetto> Or Ibiza?
16:03:16 <tibbs> I'm at the age where sleeping eight hours a day feels like a vacation.
16:03:24 <tibbs> And I don't even have kids.
16:03:59 <geppetto> :)
16:04:03 * limburgher here
16:04:45 <geppetto> #chair limburgher
16:04:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher orionp racor tibbs
16:05:19 <geppetto> Well, that's 5.
16:05:30 <geppetto> #topic Schedule
16:05:32 <geppetto> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/L37GFZPSNPSPNFQIABQISE7J3EGBTZZZ/
16:05:34 <geppetto> For the lolz
16:05:40 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
16:06:07 <tibbs> So is anyone waiting on anything from me?
16:06:47 <geppetto> There's the tilda in versioning thing … and you talked about file triggers
16:06:53 <limburgher> Error 503 Backend fetch failed
16:07:05 <limburgher> Can't see the agenda.
16:07:08 <tibbs> I have heard rumbling about another big python overhaul, since Suse has come up with more magic which conceptually isn't all that far off from what I had envisioned ages ago.
16:07:24 <tibbs> But I'm kind of staying out of that until someone has a concrete proposal.
16:07:31 <geppetto> limburgher: Impressive … it's empty this week anyway, so it's kind of amusingly correct.
16:07:42 <tibbs> I need to prompt the glibc people about the file trigger thing.
16:07:51 * geppetto nods
16:08:14 <geppetto> Yeh, I figure wait for the Python SIG to decide if they want whatever SuSE is doing?
16:08:24 <tibbs> Yes, or at least make a proposal.
16:08:24 <limburgher> geppetto: Seeing Varnish's Guru Meditation gave me the feels.
16:08:47 <tibbs> Another Amiga user, I see.
16:09:02 <geppetto> FWIW: the non-perm link worked for me: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/L37GFZPSNPSPNFQIABQISE7J3EGBTZZZ/
16:09:22 <tibbs> Anyway, the glibc people seem to come up with an argument I fail to understand each time, but I have put another try on my list.
16:09:23 <limburgher> tibbs: 500. ;)
16:09:45 <limburgher> Me too.
16:09:49 * geppetto nods … cool.
16:10:08 <tibbs> limburgher: Original A1000, with the designer signatures.  One of the first few hundred produced.
16:10:16 <limburgher> tibbs: Sweet!
16:10:29 <limburgher> Wish I still had mine but it passed away about 20 years ago.
16:11:10 <tibbs> I did take the updated versioning page and change what's necessary to use tilde versioning.
16:11:21 <geppetto> Oh, cool
16:11:22 <tibbs> Zero simplification, really, but maybe I missed something.
16:11:42 <geppetto> I assume it has the upstream/fedora distinction better though?
16:11:53 <tibbs> I think the proponents of that thing are off proposing other overhauls elsewhere and I'm not going to push it.
16:12:19 <limburgher> Maybe it'll just go away. ;)
16:12:22 <tibbs> geppetto: Well, I drafted the rewrite with an eye towards making a change to tildes a pretty simple language swap.
16:12:32 <tibbs> So it's like a paragraph.
16:12:37 <geppetto> ahh
16:13:06 <tibbs> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ATibbs%2FTildeVersioning&diff=latest&oldid=487415
16:13:23 <tibbs> As you can see, it... doesn't make things better from a "length of text" standpoint.
16:14:40 <tibbs> Some of that is a note, though.
16:15:05 * geppetto nods
16:15:40 <tibbs> Anyway, I did keep my promise to try.  Someone who really wants this should really take a pass over the document and see if tilde can simplify anything else.
16:16:02 <geppetto> yeh
16:16:11 <tibbs> I am still for it as a concept but just don't care enough to do all of that work myself.
16:16:48 * geppetto nods … we already work you too hard as it is
16:17:26 <geppetto> I can't think of anything else, anyone else have anything to discuss?
16:17:27 <tibbs> It's more about caring enough to do a good job at it.
16:17:51 <tibbs> I do plan to get down to doing automated packaging cleanup here in the next week or so.
16:18:43 <limburgher> Nothing here.
16:19:08 <geppetto> You have any plans on specific things you want to cleanup?
16:21:01 <tibbs> geppetto: Basically a pile of minor spec crap that people keep copy/pasting.
16:21:25 <tibbs> Useless %defattr, %clean, deleting buildroot in install, that kind of stuff.
16:21:44 <tibbs> I will also be running source URL checks since I have scripting for that.
16:21:55 <geppetto> ahh, cool
16:22:05 <tibbs> I'm trying to reinstate some of the checking that we used to do back in the day.
16:22:15 * geppetto nods
16:22:33 <limburgher> I only have one open Merge Review #TBT
16:22:49 <tibbs> Sadly getting rpmlint and other tooling to be better about this stuff is so difficult.
16:23:24 <tibbs> rpmlint upstream is resistant to a lot of things, but in the Fedora package we can kind of do what we want.
16:23:55 <tibbs> But for everything you want to change you have to keep the guidelines, rpmlint, fedora-review, rpmdevtools and probably ten other things in sync.
16:24:46 <tibbs> And I just don't have the time for all of that.  In the meantime we have a lot of people confused about what to do when the tooling disagrees.
16:27:39 <geppetto> yeh, that's been a thing for a long time
16:27:52 <tibbs> Just finished another big project here at the office so hopefully I'll be able to scrape up some time.
16:28:38 <geppetto> to solve it I think we'd really need a dedicated rpmlint/etc. person … or completely change how we do everything so that policy changes come with auto checking tooling changes.
16:28:39 <tibbs> If anyone else wants to dip into any of this, please feel free.  I just need to put an hour into figuring out how to write custom Fedora rpmlint tests and then upstream can take them or not.
16:28:44 <geppetto> But lol to either of those options.
16:30:12 <geppetto> One thing is that I doubt I'll be here next week
16:30:38 <tibbs> Unless something comes in I doubt we'll even need to have a meeting next week.
16:30:41 * geppetto nods
16:30:55 <geppetto> I'll be here the week after, although I'll be gone again the week after that
16:31:14 <geppetto> But, yeh, it's not like we have 12 tickets queued up still
16:32:00 <geppetto> Ok, well I'll see you all in a couple of weeks.
16:32:05 <geppetto> #endmeeting