17:02:11 <jberkus> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_wg
17:02:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 19 17:02:11 2017 UTC.  The chair is jberkus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_wg'
17:02:22 <jberkus> #topic roll call
17:02:25 <roshi> .hello roshi
17:02:26 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
17:02:26 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
17:02:27 <yzhang> .hello yzhang
17:02:28 <jberkus> .hello jberkus
17:02:29 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:02:32 <zodbot> yzhang: yzhang 'Yu Qi Zhang' <jzehrarnyg@gmail.com>
17:02:35 <zodbot> jberkus: jberkus 'Josh Berkus' <josh@agliodbs.com>
17:02:42 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks
17:02:43 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:02:45 <miabbott> .hello miabbott
17:02:49 <zodbot> miabbott: miabbott 'Micah Abbott' <miabbott@redhat.com>
17:02:54 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
17:02:55 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:02:59 <linuxmodder> .hello linuxmodder
17:03:00 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
17:03:25 <deuscapturus> .hello deuscapturus
17:03:26 <zodbot> deuscapturus: Sorry, but you don't exist
17:03:53 <jberkus> #chair jberkus dustymabe sayan miabbott linuxmodder roshi yzhang jbrooks
17:03:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus jbrooks linuxmodder miabbott roshi sayan yzhang
17:04:46 <jberkus> can someone find me the last meeting notes?  the meeting name didn't get tagged correctly
17:04:54 <walters> .hello walters
17:04:54 <dustymabe> jberkus: one sec
17:04:55 <zodbot> walters: walters 'Colin Walters' <walters@redhat.com>
17:05:05 <jberkus> #chair jberkus dustymabe sayan miabbott linuxmodder roshi yzhang jbrooks  walters
17:05:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jberkus jbrooks linuxmodder miabbott roshi sayan walters yzhang
17:05:18 <jberkus> deuscapturus: you're not registered with zodbot, apparently
17:05:21 <dustymabe> change the topic
17:05:32 <dustymabe> #topic previous meeting action items
17:05:40 <dustymabe> * jbrooks to open ticket to track all the guidelines changes we need to
17:05:43 <dustymabe> update maintainers about
17:05:45 <dustymabe> * miabbott to update #248 and close the ticket
17:05:47 <dustymabe> * dustymabe to open ticket to track "docker"->"container" namespace
17:05:49 <dustymabe> change in fedora dist-git
17:05:51 <dustymabe> * dustymabe to write description for #242
17:05:53 <dustymabe> * jberkus to convene folks to discuss Help/Description and consolidate
17:05:55 <dustymabe> #243 #255 #257 and #267 if possible
17:05:57 <dustymabe> * jberkus to close #233 and we don't need to notify maintainers of
17:05:59 <dustymabe> anything
17:06:01 <dustymabe> * jberkus to merge in suggested text from #234 into the container
17:06:03 <dustymabe> guidelines
17:06:05 <dustymabe> * jberkus maxamillion to vote on ticket #264
17:06:08 <walters> jberkus, or maybe zodbot is saying something more existential...
17:06:35 <jberkus> ok, in order
17:06:45 <jbrooks> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/268 that's mine
17:06:48 <jberkus> jbrooks: opened tracking ticket and is being assigned stuff
17:06:56 <dustymabe> i wrote the description for #242, that is now closed as fixed
17:07:22 <dustymabe> sorry i went OOO
17:07:26 <jberkus> 248 is closed
17:07:30 <miabbott> yup
17:07:52 <jberkus> dustymabe: so, tracking docker -> container.  dustymabe, any updates on that?
17:08:06 <dustymabe> i did not need ot open the ticket to track 'docker->container' becuase maxamillion sent an email like right after the meeting announcing he had done the work
17:08:26 <dustymabe> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/EKYELPBCKLLUMGTBOYWEC5BOERQBF634/
17:08:28 <jberkus> ok, so that's resolved
17:08:41 <jberkus> Help/Description: mine
17:08:49 <jberkus> Meaningful discussion is here: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/256
17:09:37 <jberkus> feh, how do I post a link to a comment?
17:09:56 <dustymabe> jberkus: right click on the "time of the comment" and save link as
17:10:02 <dustymabe> err. copy link i mean
17:10:08 <jberkus> thanks
17:10:17 <jberkus> so here's the current rules proposal: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/256#comment-436537
17:10:18 <dustymabe> i.e. if it says 'a month ago' right click on that
17:10:39 <jberkus> I'd like to wind this up *today* unless people think that we need to wait for maxamillion to get back from DockerCon
17:11:28 <dustymabe> jberkus: i think we can wind it up, obviously the "tooling" part of that discussion might live on for some time
17:11:44 <dustymabe> the advanced functionality of atomic-reactor, etc..
17:11:54 <jberkus> yeah, ultimately I'd like to automatically copy the help files into the images, but have no expecation that we can do that this month
17:12:09 <dustymabe> right. start with something and then open requests to improve it
17:12:28 <jberkus> ok, folks, please look at those rules and if you have any objections/improvements mention them during the meeting
17:12:47 <jberkus> #233 is closed.  #234 is merged.
17:13:17 * roshi doesn't have a strong opinion on this one
17:13:42 <jberkus> Everyone has voted on #264.  Can we make it law?
17:13:49 <jberkus> roshi: anything else required on RCs?
17:14:02 <roshi> release criteria?
17:14:09 <jberkus> yes
17:14:10 <roshi> RC is kinda overloaded
17:14:13 <roshi> dn't think so
17:14:18 <roshi> we're looking good on that front
17:14:25 <jberkus> ok, I can mark this one fixed?
17:14:29 <roshi> I just need to move it to the Atomic wiki space
17:14:30 <roshi> sure
17:14:36 <miabbott> +1
17:14:44 <jberkus> oh, ok. please close it when you move it to the wiki space
17:14:45 <jberkus> thanks
17:14:52 <jberkus> I think that's a record for us on action items
17:14:59 <jberkus> #topic Meeting Issues
17:15:01 <dustymabe> :)
17:16:00 <jberkus> No updates on FOSP, still waiting on hardware
17:16:18 <jberkus> #228, clarify policy on older releases
17:16:34 <jberkus> it seems like we have a plan now for how we're dealing with older releases
17:16:37 <jberkus> which is:
17:16:45 <jberkus> a) we're not supporting older "release numbers"
17:17:04 <jberkus> b) we're going to move to a system of having stable and testing Ostree channels
17:17:18 <jberkus> c) "upgrades" will be "rolling" instead of via rebase
17:17:27 <jberkus> at least on stable
17:17:33 <jberkus> is my understanding of that correct?
17:17:42 <roshi> seems right to me
17:17:48 <dustymabe> jberkus: mostly - not sure about b exactly
17:17:58 <dustymabe> can you be more specific there in your wording?
17:18:34 <jberkus> dustymabe: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/228#comment-430323
17:19:07 <deuscapturus> #topic Unable to copy Fedora AWS AMI's
17:19:20 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: wait for open floor please
17:19:38 <dustymabe> jberkus: i see that, but that wasn't exactly communicated in your bullet point
17:19:44 <dustymabe> jberkus: yes, i agree with that
17:19:53 <jbrooks> jberkus, is testing different than the updates-testing ref we already have?
17:20:01 <dustymabe> we may use a different name than "stable" but the general idea
17:20:12 <jberkus> dustymabe: ok, so next step is to post the policy and plans somewhere
17:20:15 <jberkus> where is appropriate?
17:20:22 <roshi> atomic wiki space
17:20:26 <dustymabe> jberkus: well there is a problem
17:20:31 <roshi> fp.o/wiki/Atomic
17:20:44 <dustymabe> we can't really do this without a unified repo
17:20:58 <dustymabe> and I don't think we're going to get that for f26
17:21:09 <jberkus> dustymabe: thats fine, these are future plans
17:21:24 <jberkus> in the meantime, our "support" for older release numbers will be "best effort"
17:21:29 <jberkus> which we'll also communicate
17:21:31 <dustymabe> right. which means the first upgrade that we will support that is rolling is 27->28
17:22:04 <dustymabe> make sense?
17:22:47 <jbrooks> What would stop us from starting w/ 26-27
17:22:51 <jberkus> not clear on why it's not F26->F27, but that doesn't materially change the policy, so we can hash that out elsewere
17:23:03 <dustymabe> jbrooks: no unified repo
17:23:16 <dustymabe> we are still putting the repo into a fedora 26 specific location
17:23:38 <dustymabe> now we might be able to "workaround that" by creating a unified repo out of the f26 one and redirecting
17:23:42 <dustymabe> but I don't want to promise anything
17:23:47 <jberkus> yah
17:23:59 <dustymabe> however if rolling release is required in order for us to not support N-1
17:24:04 <jberkus> s'okay, if we say "starting with Fedora 27", it covers either release
17:24:10 <dustymabe> then when we communicate this change would need to change
17:24:48 <jberkus> as long as we're going to keep updating the ostrees for the older version numbers until we switch to rolling, it's fine
17:24:53 <dustymabe> ok
17:25:38 <jberkus> who wants to take a first stab at writing that up for the wiki and an announcement?
17:25:56 * roshi is kinda swamped at the moment
17:25:58 <jberkus> it'll be a group effort, but someone needs to lead
17:26:10 <jbrooks> jberkus, I will
17:26:28 <jberkus> #action jbrooks to lead writing up the new support policy and plan for rolling releases
17:26:44 <jberkus> ... and everyone else to help
17:26:46 <jberkus> ok
17:26:53 <jberkus> #topic Open Floor
17:26:53 <dustymabe> jbrooks: +1, but it might help not confuse people if we give them something more concrete
17:27:00 <dustymabe> or maybe we can be intentionally vague
17:27:02 <jberkus> deuscapturus: go ahead?
17:27:06 <roshi> so, moby
17:27:07 <dustymabe> and say more details will come later
17:27:17 <dustymabe> roshi: let's let deuscapturus go first
17:27:28 <roshi> didn't know there was something else up
17:28:11 <dustymabe> sayan: i think he was asking about https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/263
17:28:44 <sayan> anyways, is there any update on running the script to update the snapshot permissions?
17:29:02 <dustymabe> who are you asking?
17:29:12 <jberkus> deuscapturus: here?
17:29:40 <sayan> dustymabe: there is no update on releasing the libcloud latest version
17:30:00 <dustymabe> sayan: what has it blocked?
17:30:36 <dustymabe> i don't see why we can't go ahead and set the perms on all of the older AMIs now
17:31:38 <sayan> dustymabe: I wrote a script that did that, and the plan was maxamillion to followup with dgilmore to run that script
17:32:12 <dgilmore> sayan: I do not know how to
17:32:25 <dustymabe> who does?
17:32:35 <dgilmore> no idea
17:33:12 <dgilmore> a doc on how to run would go a long way.
17:33:20 <sayan> dgilmore: do you know your access tokens?
17:33:23 <dgilmore> how to get the right auth token and run it
17:33:28 <dgilmore> sayan: I do not
17:33:47 <dustymabe> so basically we don't know who has access to the fedora account to be able to modify things?
17:33:49 <sayan> dgilmore: okay, I will then write a doc on that and maybe push to infra-docs
17:34:08 <dgilmore> sayan: releng may be more appropriate
17:34:18 <sayan> okay
17:34:59 <dustymabe> ok, so i'll try to track this down with paul/matt
17:35:11 <sayan> dustymabe: I don't see updates on the python-libcloud package: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=python-libcloud
17:35:17 <dustymabe> let's try to escalate things more quickly in the future if we don't know how to do something
17:35:30 <dustymabe> sayan: what's your point?
17:36:44 <sayan> my patch is in the latest release of libcloud, until we get the updated package I can't integrate it with fedimg
17:36:55 <dustymabe> sayan: yes, I understand that
17:37:00 <sayan> dustymabe: what would be the best way to go ahead?
17:37:03 <dustymabe> there are two pieces of this
17:37:10 <dustymabe> one, run the script for older images
17:37:17 <dustymabe> two, add that to the sustainable existing process
17:37:28 <dustymabe> sayan: please ping the package maintainer to get a new update
17:37:38 <dustymabe> and update the ticket saying you've done so
17:37:46 <dustymabe> if he doesn't respond we'll escalate
17:38:07 <sayan> okay, I will do that today itself then
17:38:12 <dustymabe> sayan: thanks
17:38:27 <dustymabe> roshi: moby
17:38:38 <jberkus> I have an item after that
17:39:20 <roshi> just wondered if people had any idea what it's impact on us was going to be
17:39:34 <miabbott> i think it is just a rename
17:39:41 <roshi> aside from porting docs and having to go through updating binary names
17:39:41 <jberkus> it's not
17:39:49 <jberkus> they're breaking up the monolithic docker engine
17:40:01 <yzhang> isn't linuxkit a bit more relevant to us
17:40:02 <jbrooks> didn't they already do that?
17:40:15 <miabbott> moar pieces
17:40:18 <jberkus> jbrooks: this is the rest of the pieces, theoretically
17:40:34 <jberkus> however, this is all highly speculative because moby isn't really even a thing yet
17:40:47 <jberkus> it's just a press release
17:41:09 <jbrooks> and this is our docker: https://github.com/projectatomic/docker
17:41:11 <jberkus> yzhang: not really, since we already have our own "linuxkit"
17:41:25 <miabbott> https://github.com/moby/moby/pull/32691
17:41:36 <jberkus> yah,  likely they'll make us rename that
17:41:41 <jberkus> to moby
17:42:03 <dustymabe> i wouldn't worry about this for now
17:42:05 <jberkus> the one thing which could spell trouble is that he was making noises about making the docker UI proprietary
17:42:21 <jberkus> but until that happens, we don't need to do anything
17:42:52 <dustymabe> yeah, pretty easy to replicate that UI
17:43:00 <dustymabe> so if they do, i'm not too worried about it
17:43:57 <dustymabe> one other item for open floor
17:44:07 <dustymabe> we release a new 2wk atomic host yesterday
17:44:10 <jberkus> yes, I just forwarded an invitation to the Cloud list
17:44:20 <dustymabe> please update your instances!
17:44:24 <jberkus> dustymabe: oh, go ahead
17:45:04 <dustymabe> jberkus: i'm done :)
17:45:34 <deuscapturus> I have an item.  I'm hoping to get this issue resolved. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1423753
17:45:36 * roshi updated when he tested
17:45:51 <jberkus> so ... Univa, one of our major users and community members
17:45:58 <deuscapturus> AWS AMi's for Fedora cannot be copied.
17:46:04 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: we actually talked in depth about your issue
17:46:09 <dustymabe> look at the scrollback
17:46:19 <jberkus> is doing a roadshow for their platform built on top of Fedora Atomic
17:46:40 <jberkus> it would be great if we could have some FAH people at their events as community involvement
17:46:47 <jberkus> however, we don't have much lead time
17:46:51 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: basically the summary is: our process for accessing aws is locked down and only automated tools interact with the account
17:47:05 <dustymabe> we need to find out who has access to do manual updates to things in the account
17:47:14 <dustymabe> i'm trying to find who has that access now
17:47:40 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: we are also working to incorporate that change into our automated tools so new released AMIs get that setting by default
17:48:01 <dustymabe> you can follow that work here https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/263
17:48:07 <jbrooks> jberkus, do you have a link to more info?
17:48:15 <jberkus> http://www.navops.io/navops-roadshow.html
17:48:26 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: does that make sense?
17:48:35 <jberkus> given the short deadline really it would need to be someone in Westford for the first event
17:48:51 * gholms tries to remember why that uses libcloud
17:49:18 <dustymabe> the one in NYC is the next day
17:49:34 <jberkus> yah
17:50:26 <deuscapturus> dustymabe: yes. thank you
17:50:37 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: thanks for coming by and sticking with your request
17:50:43 <dustymabe> persistence is key :)
17:50:47 <dustymabe> sorry about it taking so long
17:51:00 <dustymabe> deuscapturus: feel free to hang out with us in #fedora-cloud too
17:51:12 <dustymabe> ok are we done with the meeting?
17:51:19 * roshi has nothing else
17:51:25 <jberkus> yes.  if anyone wants to/can go to the Navops thing, let me know.
17:52:49 <dustymabe> walters: ^^ the one in boston is right up your alley
17:52:51 <dustymabe> miabbott: ^^
17:53:04 <jberkus> ok, anything else?  going in
17:53:06 <jberkus> 3
17:53:23 <jberkus> 2
17:53:42 <walters> might be able to go, yeah
17:53:57 <jberkus> 1
17:54:06 <jberkus> #endmeeting