16:00:09 <geppetto> #startmeeting fpc
16:00:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 11 16:00:09 2017 UTC.  The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:09 <geppetto> #meetingname fpc
16:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:09 <geppetto> #topic Roll Call
16:00:15 * limburgher here
16:00:16 <mbooth> Hi
16:00:19 <geppetto> #chair limburgher
16:00:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher
16:00:23 <orionp> hello
16:00:34 <geppetto> #chair orionp
16:00:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher orionp
16:03:13 <tibbs> Hey.
16:03:20 <mbooth> Hi again :-)
16:03:34 <geppetto> #chair tibbs
16:03:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher orionp tibbs
16:03:38 <geppetto> #chair mbooth
16:03:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher mbooth orionp tibbs
16:03:57 <geppetto> Hey, that's makes 5 :)
16:04:06 <geppetto> give it another couple of minutes and then we can start.
16:04:15 <geppetto> Only have a single ticket atm. and I don't think it'll take long
16:06:18 <geppetto> #topic Schedule
16:06:21 <geppetto> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/W7KCY7FUUTKIHAAUGDMEYCIMIOOEFSDB/
16:06:32 <geppetto> #topic #684 Fix bootstrap guidelines
16:06:37 <geppetto> .fpc 684
16:06:40 <zodbot> geppetto: Issue #684: Fix bootstrap guidelines - packaging-committee - Pagure - https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/684
16:09:29 <racor> I am here, also ;)
16:10:01 <geppetto> #chair racor
16:10:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto limburgher mbooth orionp racor tibbs
16:10:17 <geppetto> So I think the idea here was that we assumed people wouldn't need to bootstrap that often
16:10:51 <tibbs> It's a case of us touching something and now other people want changes there as well.
16:10:59 <geppetto> So we recommended people turn it off after they've bootstrapped
16:11:23 <geppetto> Yeh, that too, but that's what happens when you shine a light into the darkness ;)
16:12:25 <orionp> my general sense was that since the build system (koji) didn't support a bootstrap flag, that the only real useful thing was setting bootstrap to 1 or 0
16:12:50 * geppetto nods
16:13:36 <orionp> and that we always wanted it defined in case someone used %bootstrap without the ?
16:13:44 <geppetto> Can anyone think of a reason not to change this?
16:14:56 <orionp> not really, it only affects personal builds at the moment so it would be good to get it "right"
16:16:22 * geppetto nods … ok, I'm +1 then.
16:17:51 <limburgher> Seems ok, +1
16:18:01 <mbooth> To make this change? https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Vondruch/Bootsrap_guidelines&diff=492334&oldid=492333
16:18:05 <mbooth> Sure, +1
16:18:18 <geppetto> mbooth: yeh
16:21:30 <geppetto> tibbs: racor orionp: Want to vote?
16:21:52 <orionp> Alternate version, fwiw - %global bootstrap %{?_with_bootstrap:1}%{!?_with_bootstrap:0}    it always defines bootstrap
16:22:08 <tibbs> Sorry, super busy today.
16:22:22 <geppetto> orionp: I am fine with it if you prefer that
16:22:39 <orionp> also, should this go into rpm-redhat-config or similar?
16:23:07 <tibbs> I would certainly be happy to do that if it works.  But I haven't tested it or anything.
16:23:09 <geppetto> Probably fine to be per. package given how little use it has
16:23:31 <geppetto> But I'm fine with it being global … as long as we don't break anything
16:23:50 <racor> actually, I am using %bcond_with|without for this
16:23:55 <orionp> what's the diff between _with_blah and with_blah ?
16:25:04 <racor> cf. the comments around %bcond in /usr/lib/rpm/macros
16:28:07 <racor> IIRC, _with_foo is the content of command line argument passed to rpmbuild --with foo , while with_foo is a %global
16:30:03 * geppetto has no idea
16:30:23 <geppetto> I usually just paste something into my specfiles until it works :) …
16:30:42 <geppetto> racor: Do you want/have a different line?
16:30:47 <mbooth> geppetto: Packaging by brute force? :-)
16:31:13 <geppetto> mbooth: Stackoverflow platinum tier
16:31:39 <racor> geppetto: Not necessarily. To me, all appears to be a bit "weird"
16:31:55 <ignatenkobrain> IMO bcond stuff would be easier (talking as a packager)
16:32:27 <geppetto> Does someone want to change the draft/diff so we can vote on a bcond version?
16:32:59 <racor> all I am doing is to add a "%bcond_with" rsp. "%bcond_without" and edit it to the opposite after bootstrapping
16:33:00 <geppetto> racor: that's a common thing people say about rpm :-o
16:33:25 * geppetto nods
16:34:15 <racor> later in the spec, I usually use %{with ...} or %{defined ..,}
16:36:28 <orionp> I'm fine with the proposed version.
16:37:16 <geppetto> Ok, that's +4 … anyone else want to vote the simple change in, or propose something else?
16:37:44 <tibbs> Sorry, I keep getting called away.
16:38:09 <racor> geppetto: I feel we are about to reinvent the wheel.
16:38:10 <tibbs> I'm +1 to the proposal.
16:38:44 <geppetto> racor: It's more like grinding a corner off our old wheel
16:38:49 <tibbs> I mean, I was +1 to the the change which we're now revising, so I don't know how much to trust myself.
16:39:20 <tibbs> But if people are super confused because we defined the setting backwards, then I guess we screwed up.
16:39:40 * geppetto nods
16:39:52 <geppetto> We are at +5 now … you want to vote for the record racor ?
16:39:55 <racor> geppetto: Na. though we are removing one corner, we are adding a new one.
16:40:21 <racor> Now that there are +5, I vote -1
16:40:37 <geppetto> If the people using the wheel are happier, I guess that's good enough
16:40:39 <geppetto> ok
16:40:48 <geppetto> #action Fix bootstrap guidelines (+1:5, 0:0, -1:1)
16:41:17 <geppetto> racor: Did you want to propose to change it to something else next meeting?
16:41:57 <geppetto> Have time to write a new draft change etc.
16:42:05 <racor> geppetto: I don't know, if it's worth the fuzz
16:42:06 <geppetto> I can leave the ticket open then
16:42:12 <geppetto> Fair enough
16:42:18 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
16:42:22 <tibbs> I'm certainly happy waiting if there's another proposal to consider.
16:42:41 <geppetto> Did anyone have anything else to talk about?
16:43:02 <tibbs> Not me; I was hoping for a short meeting.
16:43:04 <limburgher> Not I, said the duck.  Busy duck today.
16:44:48 <geppetto> Ok, cool. I'll let you all get back to lunch or work :)
16:45:03 <geppetto> #endmeeting