20:00:15 <sgallagh> #startmeeting Fedora Server SIG Weekly Meeting (2019-09-26)
20:00:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 26 20:00:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_server_sig_weekly_meeting_(2019-09-26)'
20:00:15 <sgallagh> #meetingname serversig
20:00:15 <sgallagh> #topic Roll Call
20:00:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'serversig'
20:00:29 <sgallagh> .hello2
20:00:29 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
20:05:56 <sgallagh> We may not have quorum today, it seems
20:07:39 <nirik> morning
20:07:51 <sgallagh> nirik: Isn't it afternoon where you are?
20:07:59 <nirik> its always morning on irc. ;)
20:08:30 * sgallagh hands nirik an e-coffee
20:08:51 <nirik> thanks
20:09:25 <sgallagh> So far, it doesn't look like we'll have quorum. Which is unfortunate, because we kind of need an answer for this branding question
20:10:05 * sgallagh goes on a ping-spree
20:10:23 <nirik> I was fine with your post to the list on it personally.
20:10:28 <smooge> hello
20:10:29 <smooge> sorry
20:11:09 <sgallagh> yay! quorum
20:11:17 <sgallagh> Hi smooge  :)
20:11:29 <sgallagh> #topic Branding Bikeshed
20:11:38 <ignatenkobrain> sgallagh: can I get e-coffee too?
20:11:54 <jds2001> .hello jstanley
20:11:55 <zodbot> jds2001: jstanley 'Jon Stanley' <jonstanley@gmail.com>
20:12:04 <sgallagh> The design team is working hard on new icons for the Server Edition and needs input as to what we plan to actually call it.
20:12:24 <sgallagh> I'm personally of the opinion that we should just call it "Fedora Server Edition" and have something like "built atop Fedora Modularity" in the description of it, rather than create a new brand.
20:12:26 * jds2001 was getting real coffee with a vendor, sorry :D
20:12:38 <mjwolf> .hello mjwolf
20:12:39 <zodbot> mjwolf: mjwolf 'Michael Wolf' <mjw@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
20:12:39 <nirik> +1 from me
20:12:44 <mjwolf> sorry I'm late
20:12:52 <jds2001> +1 from me
20:12:52 <sgallagh> no problem
20:13:08 <smooge> +1 for keeping the same name
20:14:01 * nirik pictures a box with a red thing in the corner saying "NEW!" and a bubble with "now with 100% more modular contents"
20:14:01 <sgallagh> So, the opposite side to this coin is what to call the traditional release (if we're going to deliver it in any way, which we haven't had a firm decision on)
20:14:07 <sgallagh> nirik++
20:14:42 * jds2001 is in favor of abandoning the traditional relase
20:15:04 <sgallagh> Yeah, that was less clear in previous meetings.
20:15:41 <smooge> Is in favor of abandoning releases and just go with Fedora Rawhide Container Server with Modularity
20:15:43 <jds2001> but also, being congizant of the "brand reputation" of not having *something* at f27 release, is that something the rest of the WG is in agreement with?
20:15:44 <mjwolf> I wonder how much push back you would get from folks if you didnt do a traditional.  speaking from the perspective of having tried to drop an arch
20:15:48 <sgallagh> Proposal: Regardless of what happens on the rel-eng side, Server SIG does not want any non-modular images appearing on official public download sites.
20:15:57 <nirik> well, I am ok with not advertising it, but I really think we need good messaging on the getfedora page
20:16:23 <nirik> -1
20:16:24 <sgallagh> nirik: I'm reasonably comfortable leaving that part to mattdm to sort out
20:16:35 <sgallagh> nirik: Perhaps poor phrasing.
20:16:48 <sgallagh> By "official public sites" I mean "getfedora and/or spins.fp.o"
20:16:54 <nirik> I think if we need to point to the old netinstall we might want to or the like...
20:17:05 <nirik> or do you think we shouldn't do that either?
20:17:25 <sgallagh> Well, my point is that I think we want to discourage people from doing fresh installs of non-modular Server on F27
20:17:41 <sgallagh> Upgrades will still happen through the Everything repo, and we'll have to support that.
20:17:48 <langdon> .hello2
20:17:49 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@redhat.com>
20:18:41 <nirik> I suppose, but some folks may have a need right then... I guess we could tell them to install f26
20:19:04 <sgallagh> I'm worried about sending mixed messages
20:19:09 <langdon> it isn't like f26 is eol
20:20:07 * langdon sorry he is late.. lost track  of time
20:20:21 <sgallagh> nirik: Honestly, there's always the generic netinstall as well
20:20:35 <sgallagh> Yeah, it doesn't have Server branding, but I'm not sure that's an actual problem
20:20:39 <nirik> well, the messaging will be key... but I also trust mattdm to do the right thing there. ;)
20:20:54 <nirik> well, or the filesystem or partitioning changes we made... but yeah
20:21:30 <mjwolf> but if you have a kickstart that wont be a big deal
20:21:33 * sgallagh nods
20:22:20 <nirik> yeah, so perhaps we don't need to say anything here... just trust in/help contribute to the messaging
20:22:42 <nirik> if that points to modular, mentions other options, it should all work out.
20:23:48 <sgallagh> oh, I nearly forgot to record our earlier decision:
20:23:48 <sgallagh> #agreed Server SIG agrees that we would like to avoid creating a new brand for the modular release. We will go with "Fedora Server Edition" and note that it is built from modular components in the descriptions.
20:24:06 <sgallagh> nirik: What other options?
20:24:20 <sgallagh> I think we need to clearly decide if that includes producing the traditional media.
20:24:35 <sgallagh> I think we should just commit to the modular world here
20:24:50 <nirik> if you need to install right then: f26 or generic netinstall.
20:24:58 <sgallagh> nirik: +1
20:25:10 <nirik> and explain generic would have ext4/old partitioning.
20:26:14 <sgallagh> Works for me.
20:26:19 <nirik> I think there was somewhere I saw discussion on it, but can't recall now where.
20:26:23 * sgallagh phrases this as a proposal
20:26:25 <nirik> so many tickets in so many trackers. ;)
20:26:49 <langdon> nirik: no lie
20:27:21 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/issue/735 but that doesn't have much content discussion yet
20:27:22 <sgallagh> Proposal: Fedora Server SIG will not promote the traditional server through any official websites. We will recommend the use of Fedora 26 Server Edition or the generic netinstall of F27 for people who cannot wait for the modular release.
20:27:34 * mkolman is confused due to EXT4 being mentioned together with Server Edition, which normally uses XFS by default
20:27:39 <nirik> +1
20:28:03 <mkolman> oh, right - they would get EXT4 if they use the non-server installer
20:28:08 <nirik> mkolman: right, but the netinstall made from the "Everything" repo defaults to the old ext4 / partitioning
20:28:15 <nirik> yeah, exactly
20:28:19 <mkolman> makes sense now :)
20:28:42 <nirik> just don't want people to be surprised...
20:28:43 <smooge> +1 to proposal
20:29:41 <mjwolf> +1
20:30:36 <sgallagh> #agreed Fedora Server SIG will not promote the traditional server through any official websites. We will recommend the use of Fedora 26 Server Edition or the generic netinstall of F27 for people who cannot wait for the modular release.
20:31:31 <sgallagh> OK, folks. I actually have to drop and go collect my daughter at day-care.
20:31:44 <sgallagh> Are there any other urgent topics?
20:32:01 <smooge> Not that I know of
20:32:10 <mjwolf> none from me
20:32:10 <sgallagh> OK, thanks for coming.
20:32:14 <sgallagh> #endmeeting