16:30:15 <dustymabe> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_wg
16:30:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 16:30:15 2018 UTC.  The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_wg'
16:30:22 <dustymabe> #topic roll call
16:30:26 <dustymabe> .hello2
16:30:28 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dusty@dustymabe.com>
16:30:33 <jbrooks> .fas jasonbrooks
16:30:33 <sanja_> .hello2
16:30:34 <rubao> .hello rubao
16:30:34 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <jbrooks@redhat.com>
16:30:37 <zodbot> sanja_: Sorry, but you don't exist
16:30:39 <sanja_> ah damn
16:30:40 <zodbot> rubao: rubao 'rubao' <rubao.net@hotmail.com>
16:30:44 <miabbott> .hello
16:30:44 <zodbot> miabbott: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
16:30:48 <miabbott> .hello2
16:30:49 <zodbot> miabbott: miabbott 'Micah Abbott' <miabbott@redhat.com>
16:31:00 <lorbus> .hello2
16:31:01 <zodbot> lorbus: lorbus 'Christian Glombek' <c@petersen-glombek.de>
16:31:08 <walters1> .hello walters
16:31:09 <zodbot> walters1: walters 'Colin Walters' <walters@redhat.com>
16:31:44 <dustymabe> #chair jbrooks rubao miabbott lorbus walters1
16:31:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks lorbus miabbott rubao walters1
16:31:50 * dustymabe thinks sanja is going to come back
16:32:58 <dustymabe> or maybe not??
16:33:08 <dustymabe> oh well we'll continue on
16:33:16 <dustymabe> #topic previous meeting action items
16:33:26 <dustymabe> * davdunc to inform WG about AWS scan results of Fedora Atomic Host
16:33:28 <dustymabe> * ashcrow to ping tomas about building f27/tools container
16:33:29 <dustymabe> * sanja_ to help make/stick to an agenda for next week's VFAD
16:33:50 <jlebon> .hello jlebon
16:33:51 <zodbot> jlebon: jlebon 'None' <jlebon@redhat.com>
16:34:57 <dustymabe> I can update the item from ashcrow
16:35:27 <dustymabe> #info a new f27 tools container was built (https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=1052335) and is in the registry at registry.fedoraproject.org/f27/tools
16:35:54 <dustymabe> welcome sanja_
16:35:56 <dustymabe> #chair sanja_
16:35:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks lorbus miabbott rubao sanja_ walters1
16:36:09 <dustymabe> #chair jlebon
16:36:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jlebon lorbus miabbott rubao sanja_ walters1
16:36:18 <dustymabe> sanja_: we are on previous meeting action items
16:36:20 <dustymabe> there are two left
16:36:21 <sanja_> ok
16:36:31 <dustymabe> * davdunc to inform WG about AWS scan results of Fedora Atomic Host
16:36:40 <dustymabe> I'll re-action that since he isn't here
16:36:45 <dustymabe> #action davdunc to inform WG about AWS scan results of Fedora Atomic Host
16:36:55 <dustymabe> the last one is * sanja_ to help make/stick to an agenda for next week's VFAD
16:37:22 <jlebon> oh tools container, sweet!
16:37:42 <jlebon> hmm, no systemtap it looks like
16:38:13 * dustymabe waits for update from sanja_ before moving to next topic
16:38:40 <sanja_> updates from me?
16:38:58 <sanja_> I thought we're going to just put agenda stuff in the ticket, then stick to that during the VFAD
16:39:04 <dustymabe> sanja_: I didn't know if you had anything you wanted to say
16:39:12 <dustymabe> sanja_: right
16:39:18 <sanja_> any other suggestions though?
16:39:27 <dustymabe> probably needs some grooming, but otherwise, yes
16:39:41 <sanja_> yeah, of course - but people need to add what they want to discuss to the ticket
16:39:54 <sanja_> there's been only discussions about jigdo
16:39:57 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
16:39:58 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
16:39:58 <sanja_> in the ticket
16:40:07 <dustymabe> yep. I've tagged it with meeting so we'll actually discuss here today too
16:40:15 <sanja_> +1 for that
16:40:44 <dustymabe> #topic 20180309: Topics for march VFAD
16:40:50 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/429
16:41:21 <dustymabe> so.. /me reads ticket to see where we stand
16:41:52 <dustymabe> so there was some talk about possibly not needing to talk about rojig
16:42:08 <dustymabe> walters I know you've talked a lot recently about pet/dev containers and workflows
16:42:57 <dustymabe> should we talk about podman.. should we talk about the standard test interface? should we talk about integration with yum/dnf command?
16:43:30 <miabbott> i think the podman discussion could be fruitful
16:43:40 <rubao> +1
16:44:08 <dustymabe> miabbott: and what is the discussion exactly? i.e. what "question" would we add to the agenda?
16:44:39 <miabbott> dustymabe: i'd start by discussing pros/cons to including it in the host vs using as a container (assuming that is even possible)
16:44:42 <lorbus> +1 for container workflow docs, incl. podman et al
16:45:12 <miabbott> the podman discussion could also be extended to buildah
16:45:16 <sanja_> how long is the VFAD and where is it  - video-wise
16:45:18 <lorbus> +1
16:45:31 <lorbus> miabbott^
16:45:50 <dustymabe> sanja_: probably around 2 hours (or shorter if it naturally dies out)
16:45:55 <dustymabe> we can also break out into subgroups
16:45:59 <dustymabe> we can use my bluejeans
16:46:08 <dustymabe> or yours :)
16:46:23 <dustymabe> objections?
16:46:36 <sanja_> subgroups - depends on how many we are, but not a bad idea
16:46:56 <sanja_> now ...what's the time?
16:46:58 <dustymabe> right, for example if discussion starts to get deep between a few people then we can have them breakout into a separate video call
16:47:05 <sanja_> exactly
16:47:07 <dustymabe> The time is in the ticket
16:47:14 <sanja_> how did I overlook that
16:47:21 <dustymabe> :)
16:47:23 <miabbott> Fri Mar 9 15:00:00 UTC 2018
16:47:32 <miabbott> just so everyone doesn't have to look it up
16:47:38 * sanja_ thumps head on table. A few times.
16:47:43 <sanja_> thanks miabbott
16:47:50 <dustymabe> in the ticket it also links to a place where you can find what time that is in your local
16:48:09 <sanja_> ok. so who wants to discuss the bigger overall non-tech pic on video
16:48:12 <dustymabe> ok other topics? walters1 I'm definitely looking from input from you here on this
16:48:32 <dustymabe> sanja_: for example the 'communication channels' topics?
16:48:39 <lorbus> is it going to be recorded?
16:48:41 <sanja_> i'd like to discuss the diversion of atomic workstation vs atomic host and renaming it as well but not sure it's appropaite for VFAD if that's meant to be technical
16:48:54 <sanja_> yes, stuff like that and why I'd close the tickets for now
16:49:10 <dustymabe> sanja_: the VFAD is there to serve the working group. we can use it for whatever
16:49:17 <sanja_> ok then i propose the following topics
16:49:24 <sanja_> 1. rebranding atomic workstation
16:49:33 <dustymabe> sanja_: /me hangs head
16:49:38 <sanja_> 2. closing the communication channels ticket anyway and explaining on video why
16:50:01 <dustymabe> we *just* moved from 'workstation ostree' to 'atomic workstation'. I literally just finally put some finishing touches on that in releng land
16:50:09 <rubao> communication channels?
16:50:25 <sanja_> dustymabe, let me show you a media analysis I made yesterday later via DM
16:50:53 <walters1> dustymabe, i um...this gets fuzzy for me, i think it might be interesting though to have a "user feedback and questions" part?
16:50:53 <dustymabe> rubao: this ticket: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/427
16:51:09 <rubao> ah, /me looking, thanks
16:51:11 <dustymabe> walters1: i'm very +1 to that
16:51:17 <walters1> on the high level topics we could also discuss e.g. https://pagure.io/workstation-ostree-config/pull-request/74
16:51:24 <walters1> which ties back into the whole philosophy
16:52:20 * lorbus always liked the name FAW and is more concerned with the name FAH (which has obviously been around longer). In his mind FAH should be called Fedora Atomic Server..
16:53:01 <dustymabe> naming :)
16:53:25 <jbrooks> Is the VFAD for both the atomic workstation wg and this wg?
16:53:34 <dustymabe> wow
16:53:43 <jlebon> we could spend all of the VFAD on naming discussions :)
16:53:49 <dustymabe> i literally just went to mozilla and created a *new* etherpad
16:53:51 <miabbott> bikesheds for miles
16:53:53 <dustymabe> with the name 'topics'
16:53:56 <dustymabe> real generic
16:54:01 <dustymabe> and I found this
16:54:04 <dustymabe> https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/topics
16:54:12 <dustymabe> which is an etherpad I already created
16:54:15 <misc> ah ah
16:54:50 <dustymabe> ok add 'topics' to the etherpad
16:55:51 <dustymabe> walters1: I added a topic: - rpm-ostree rojig - short presentation/demo (from walters)
16:55:56 <dustymabe> do you mind?
16:56:45 <sanja_> can you transfer this to the ticket later?
16:57:02 <walters1> dustymabe, sure
16:57:16 <dustymabe> sanja_: sure. any of us can.. i'm just trying to organize the discussion from the meeting
16:57:23 <dustymabe> walters1: ok I'll start with that
16:58:23 <dustymabe> sanja_: want to add the 'communications' topics ?
16:59:54 <dustymabe> walters1: anything related to modularity?
17:00:09 <walters1> i can't think of what that would be offhand
17:00:19 <dustymabe> ok
17:01:11 <dustymabe> ok I have enough topics
17:01:25 <dustymabe> sanja_: for the communication channels topic I think it would be good to invite mattdm
17:02:19 <walters1> what about something related to dev/pet containers and best practices/tools/patterns?
17:02:32 <lorbus> walters1: +1
17:02:52 <dustymabe> yeah I asked about that
17:03:02 <dustymabe> but I think I pinged walters and not walters1
17:03:19 <dustymabe> what should we name the topic?
17:04:04 <walters1> dev/pet container tools - gather links to examples/docs ?
17:04:26 <dustymabe> ok.
17:04:30 <walters1> basically let's try to have people post links to what they do or short descriptions and we can use it as raw material for a doc later?
17:04:41 <dustymabe> yeah the narrower the focus the more likely we are to have useful discussion I think
17:05:02 <lorbus> sanja_, dustymabe: Will there be a recording of the discussion avail on youtube? Unfortunately, I won't be making it on Friday :(
17:05:21 <dustymabe> lorbus: there will be a recording, ys
17:05:25 <sanja_> really?
17:05:34 <dustymabe> sanja_: why not?
17:05:54 <sanja_> just asking
17:05:58 * sanja_ likes to hide when there's a recording.
17:06:01 <dustymabe> haha
17:06:04 <lorbus> dustymabe: cool :)
17:06:16 <dustymabe> ok adding the last topic to the list
17:07:04 <dustymabe> ok. I see the topics as separated into a few categories
17:08:18 <dustymabe> ok I organized the topics in the etherpad based on categories
17:08:50 <dustymabe> I think we should select 2 or 3 of the 4 categories
17:08:56 <dustymabe> and go with those topics for the vFad
17:09:19 <walters1> i'm going to add some strawman proposals on timeboxing
17:09:34 <dustymabe> yeah walters1 do that, if you think we have enough time then maybe we don't have to cut a category
17:10:00 <walters1> done
17:10:10 <dustymabe> one problem is I think we reach different audiences with each of those
17:10:26 <dustymabe> if we can appropriately timebox them then we can let different groups know when to join
17:10:38 <dustymabe> if they can't make it for the entire time
17:10:47 <dustymabe> WDYT?
17:11:19 <sanja_> i like the timeboxing
17:11:23 * rubao wants to +1 for that
17:12:11 <dustymabe> ok with colin's estimates we are at 155 minutes
17:12:39 <walters1> hm, we should just do 2 hrs right?
17:12:44 <dustymabe> we should probably cut a category for this one
17:12:56 <dustymabe> which is not bad because we already have agenda for the next one started :)
17:13:13 * walters1 cuts down some times
17:13:26 <sanja_> the closing comms channels won't take longer than 5 mins
17:13:28 <miabbott> 20m seems generous for podman
17:13:31 * dustymabe reminds, we can schedule the next one for a few weeks from now
17:13:36 <sanja_> actually just weave it into the rebranding thing
17:13:40 <sanja_> so forget the 10 mins needed for that
17:14:24 <dustymabe> ok. we'll follow up on the rest of this after the meeting
17:14:30 <dustymabe> thanks for that fruitful discussion everyone
17:14:40 <dustymabe> anyone object to moving to open floor?
17:14:53 <miabbott> so many fruits
17:15:19 <lorbus> no bad apples please
17:15:27 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:15:34 <dustymabe> anyone with anything for open floor
17:16:09 <dustymabe> I have something
17:16:11 <lorbus> what's going to be the relationship between CoreOS and Atomic?
17:16:18 <lorbus> sorry dusty^
17:16:29 <dustymabe> lorbus: nope. that's a reasonable question
17:16:43 * misc also maybe has something
17:16:46 <dustymabe> i can take it unless walters or sanja_ want to
17:16:59 <miabbott> if anyone can answer that coreos + atomic question, they will be a hero
17:17:08 <lorbus> :D
17:17:24 <jligon> .hello jligon
17:17:25 <zodbot> jligon: jligon 'Jeff Ligon' <jligon@redhat.com>
17:17:32 <dustymabe> #chair jligon
17:17:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jlebon jligon lorbus miabbott rubao sanja_ walters1
17:17:36 <dustymabe> ok I'll stab at it
17:17:38 <misc> miabbott: maybe we can give a obscure enough prophecy, and later add some meaning once we have a idea ?
17:17:53 <walters1> https://www.google.com/search?q=reply+hazy+try+again&tbm=isch
17:18:06 <miabbott> walters1 gets it
17:18:10 <rubao> walters1++
17:18:21 <walters1> but seriously I think we're still working through all of the implications
17:18:22 <lorbus> walters1: :D
17:18:27 <dustymabe> lorbus: basically container linux and atomic host will both be around for some time, but we are evaluating the tech from both and going to try to improve over time
17:18:50 <dustymabe> it will probably be the best ideas from both that win out
17:19:12 <dustymabe> misc: how is that ^^?
17:19:16 <dustymabe> obscure enough?
17:19:32 <sanja_> lorbus there are basically no decisions yet, neither regarding branding nor the tech underneath - but it's pretty sure that the best parts of both are going to be fused - it's not just going to be ok ditch one for the other and roll with that
17:19:36 <misc> dustymabe: nope, too clear, and kinda helpful
17:19:39 <sanja_> lol
17:19:40 <lorbus> dustymabe: I'm happy with it for now, thanks :)
17:19:46 <walters1> the question actually omits the even bigger topic of "what's the relationship with both of those and e.g. Fedora"?
17:19:47 <dustymabe> :)
17:20:08 <dustymabe> ok I'll do my open floor
17:20:16 <sanja_> walters pretty good as lots of the CoreOS people use Fedora for their desktops etc according to what people who've visited there said
17:20:18 <miabbott> that's the *real* $10K qusetion
17:20:23 <dustymabe> #info in fedora we moved to a unifed ostree repo structure: see https://lists.projectatomic.io/projectatomic-archives/atomic-devel/2018-March/msg00012.html
17:20:49 <dustymabe> ^^ if you use FAW or rawhide FAH please read ^^
17:21:00 <dustymabe> misc: you had a topic for open floor?
17:21:09 <misc> dustymabe: yep
17:21:11 <lorbus> dustymabe++
17:21:27 <misc> I did as of 5 minutes ago managed to get a working openshift config for hosting docs
17:21:33 <sanja_> wooo woooo
17:21:44 <dustymabe> misc: nice
17:21:47 <misc> so soon, once the last issue are fixed (path, index page), we should have docs.projectatomic.io be ready
17:21:50 <sanja_> oh yeah, people of atomic
17:22:00 <dustymabe> #info misc has a working openshift config for host projectatomic docs
17:22:01 <rubao> \o/
17:22:30 <sanja_> we decided we'd ditch the website thing - with so many changes upcoming, we'd decided we'd roll with Hugo for easier contributions and docs will be on asciidoc
17:22:41 <sanja_> so i'm currently theming hugo
17:23:04 <sanja_> and then we'll deploy that and hae the docs.projectatomic.io host the container best practices, atomic-host-docs and i think there was 3 rd repo
17:23:09 <misc> sanja_: so soon, you will have the title of hugo master ?
17:23:13 <sanja_> but either way, this allows us to hook in other projects as docs as well
17:23:17 <sanja_> hugo master sounds good
17:23:20 <sanja_> i'm +1 for that
17:23:29 * dustymabe uses hugo for personal blog FYI
17:23:41 <sanja_> oh really? do you know how to deploy it on openshift?
17:23:52 <dustymabe> haha
17:23:53 <sanja_> :D
17:24:01 <dustymabe> https://dustymabe.com/ says yes
17:24:06 <misc> now, the problem we have with our current hosting is that we are hitting memory limit :/
17:24:16 <sanja_> how come?
17:24:29 <dustymabe> although, i may have just hacked it to get it to work.. can't remember right now
17:24:30 <sanja_> well the old hosting will go, we'll have docs and hugo
17:24:35 <misc> well, by default, openshift allocate 512 M per pod :)
17:24:47 <dustymabe> so we are going off in discussion
17:24:48 <sanja_> ah I see ok well then ditch the new.pa
17:24:52 <dustymabe> anyone else with anything for open floor?
17:24:53 <jbrooks> misc, I think we bumped that up
17:24:59 <misc> jbrooks: nope
17:25:06 <misc> jbrooks: we reduced for 1 website
17:25:36 <jlebon> i'll just mention that the latest Fedora AH release has experimental support for automatically checking for updates
17:25:38 <misc> but I keep hitting limit for the 3 containers for the new docs stuff, I did made it work, but I am not sure for example of the memory limits for the RC, etc, etc
17:25:46 <dustymabe> jlebon: yes!
17:25:55 <jlebon> it's not on by default, but using it on my workstation and it's awesome
17:26:02 <dustymabe> jlebon: we really need a "recent releases" blog post
17:26:05 <rubao> jlebon++
17:26:06 <walters1> and soon we're going to be fixing some of the blockers to really going full-on auto-apply
17:26:07 * miabbott can confirm it is awesome on FAW
17:26:20 <jlebon> for example i can tell you that right now there is a critical errata for dhcp
17:26:26 <jlebon> just from looking at `rpm-ostree status -v`
17:26:27 <jlebon> FEDORA-2018-5051dbd15e
17:26:53 <dustymabe> jlebon: can I action you to write that blog post?
17:27:08 <jlebon> for instructions on how to enable it, check out https://github.com/projectatomic/rpm-ostree/pull/1273
17:27:13 <jlebon> dustymabe: yup, sure
17:27:19 <jlebon> i know it's long overdue :)
17:27:27 <dustymabe> #action jlebon to write blog post for recent rpm-ostree/ostree releases features
17:27:30 <dustymabe> done
17:27:37 <dustymabe> anyone else with anything for open floor?
17:27:45 <dustymabe> what a great community we have!
17:27:49 <lorbus> sanja_: A few weeks back I believe you said you were going to do an IRC/riot tutorial, do you have any news on that? (no pressure ^^)
17:28:11 <lorbus> might've been someone else, too. not sure anymore
17:28:17 <miabbott> yes sanja_ tell us about your thoughts on riot  :)
17:28:27 <dustymabe> rathole!!!
17:28:30 <dustymabe> #endmeeting