05:00:56 <ksinny> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_community
05:00:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 05:00:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is ksinny. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:00:56 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:00:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_community'
05:01:12 <ksinny> #topic Roll Call
05:01:54 <ksinny> Welcome to everybody to this meeting in new TimeZone
05:02:19 <ksinny> In this section we we will see who all are available today for this meeting
05:02:25 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
05:02:26 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
05:02:56 <firstyear> I'm not sure of the format I'm meant to provide to this :)
05:02:58 <firstyear> .hello firstyear
05:02:59 <zodbot> firstyear: firstyear 'William Brown' <william@blackhats.net.au>
05:03:01 <firstyear> ???
05:03:05 <firstyear> That looks like me :)
05:03:06 <ksinny> yeah!
05:03:16 <snarwade> .hello Suraj353
05:03:17 <zodbot> snarwade: Sorry, but you don't exist
05:03:32 <ksinny> snarwade: use your FAS Id
05:03:33 <snarwade> is it FAS nick ?
05:03:38 <ksinny> yep
05:03:50 <snarwade> .hello suraj353
05:03:51 <zodbot> snarwade: suraj353 'Suraj Narwade' <surajnarwade353@gmail.com>
05:04:08 <snarwade> gotcha :)
05:04:14 <ksinny> :)
05:04:33 <ksinny> give will give few seconds if someone shows up
05:04:46 <ksinny> s/give will/we will/
05:05:12 <snarwade> AdrianCeleste:  o/
05:05:24 <AdrianCeleste> o/
05:05:40 <snarwade> roll call
05:05:50 <ksinny> AdrianCeleste: Hey!
05:06:18 <AdrianCeleste> Heyo, not my TZ but decided to hop in anyway :P
05:06:35 <ksinny> That's good
05:06:48 <ksinny> #chair snarwade firstyear AdrianCeleste
05:06:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: AdrianCeleste firstyear ksinny snarwade
05:07:08 <AdrianCeleste> Oh, I feel special now
05:07:21 <ksinny> You are :)
05:07:36 <AdrianCeleste> \o/
05:07:47 <ksinny> #topic Introduction
05:09:21 <ksinny> Hi! It will nice if we all introduce ourself with one line info about who you are, location from where you are from and your atomic related interest. This will help us all to know each other a bit better :)
05:10:11 <firstyear> Hi there. I'm William Brown, from Australia. I'm a software engineer who works on identity management, and my interest is in LDAP-on-atomic servers, but also atomic workstation for my work and personal usage.
05:11:00 <ksinny> I am sinny Kumari, from Bangalore India (UTC+5:30). I work on Atomic Host on things like Two week release, atomic multi-arch.
05:11:32 <AdrianCeleste> Hrmm, I'm Adrian Lucrèce Céleste, from the USA (NY State, UTC -04:00), general user of fedora. I recently finally got thunderbird up on flathub.
05:11:46 <snarwade> Hi, I am Suraj Narwade, I am part of Developer tools at Red Hat, Bangalore. Currently I work around projects like kedge, kompose which revolves around Kubernetes, Openshift. I am interested in Kubernetes on atomic and tools like buildah from atomic umbrella. I didn't tried atomic workstation yet. but that's on my list.
05:13:27 <ksinny> snarwade: Yeah, you should give it atry Atomic Workstation and Atomic Host as well. We are going to have F28 beta soon
05:13:42 <firstyear> I'm here on my laptop running atomic workstation right now :)
05:13:59 <firstyear> I only have one host left in my house that ISNT atomic
05:14:04 <firstyear> Anyway, that's off topic ....
05:14:04 <AdrianCeleste> :o
05:14:15 <snarwade> ksinny: I deployed production kubernetes on atomic host in my internship :)
05:15:34 <ksinny> snarwade: cool cool. Maybe you can help us with running kubernetes test on Atomic Host in F28 and let us know if it works fine in your set-up
05:15:43 <ksinny> Hey sayan
05:15:43 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
05:15:44 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
05:15:52 <ksinny> #chair sayan
05:15:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: AdrianCeleste firstyear ksinny sayan snarwade
05:15:52 <snarwade> Hey sayan  :)
05:16:04 <snarwade> sure ksinny
05:16:09 <sayan> snarwade: ksinny: hey
05:17:12 <ksinny> sayan: We are doing introduction of each other. It will be nice if you can introduce yourself as well with one line info about who you are, location from where you are from and your atomic related interest
05:17:28 <sayan> sure
05:18:55 <sayan> I am Sayan Chowdhury, from Bangalore, India. I primarily maintain fedimg and autocloud
05:19:58 <ksinny> Thank you all for the introduction. Now, we know who is expert in what and we can use these expertise to make Atomic better :)
05:21:41 <ksinny> #topic Questions
05:22:50 <ksinny> Since this is our first meeting, would be good to know if anyone has any general queries related to this meeting or Atomic in general
05:23:37 <snarwade> where I can find Kubernetes related stuff ?
05:23:48 <snarwade> I mean ksinny mentioned about testin
05:23:52 <snarwade> testing*
05:23:55 <firstyear> My query is "what do we talk about" in this meeting. As I'm primarily a user of the platform, I have many questions and topics related to improvements that can be made to usability and I hope this is the correct place to discuss them :)
05:24:49 <ksinny> snarwade: There is a kubernetes-sig for that https://pagure.io/atomic/kubernetes-sig . Maybe you can take a look there to get more information
05:25:11 <snarwade> cool, thanks
05:25:14 <sayan> firstyear: yes, this is the correct place for those questions
05:25:20 <firstyear> Excellent :)
05:25:33 <firstyear> Is now the correct time to ask those questions?
05:25:38 <sayan> firstyear: yes
05:25:57 <firstyear> Right, so the first question is about custom kernel modules in modprobe.d and how to get them into dracut.
05:26:12 <firstyear> My laptop both has power/heat issues, but also a quirky sdhci card. They both need options.
05:26:35 <firstyear> I would *like* to put them into modprobe.d, but there seems to be no clear way to get dract on atomic to apply those files into the initrd.
05:26:53 <firstyear> So I guess the question is "how can we make customisation of kernel options better".
05:27:04 <ksinny> firstyear: In this meeting we can talk about anything which is relevant to Atomic. This is mainly to reach out to people which we can't cover in regular atomic-wg meeting due to Timzone difference.
05:27:38 <ksinny> firstyear: If  you have any ideas/suggestion we can create a ticket at https://pagure.io/atomic-wg
05:27:56 <AdrianCeleste> I don't mean to step on firstyear's toes but, I was wondering, is there any plans to have rpm-ostree handle package groups like DNF does?
05:28:06 <ksinny> This will help other folks to comment and share their experiece
05:28:15 <AdrianCeleste> e.g. so a user could easily install MATE
05:28:58 <firstyear> ksinny: Well, you can't *change* these options becauso atomic won't let you regenrate the initrd correctly.
05:29:05 <firstyear> So as a result this IS an atomic issue
05:29:36 <firstyear> ksinny: So basically, raise a ticket is what I think is the answer here then :)
05:29:44 <ksinny> AdrianCeleste: I don't have answer to your question right now, but can get back to you later on :)
05:30:11 <AdrianCeleste> Alrighty
05:30:13 <sayan> firstyear: did you discuss this in the #atomic channel?
05:30:34 <firstyear> sayan: Probably a few weeks back.
05:30:44 <ksinny> firstyear: Can you please create a ticket for you problem at https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/new_issue ?
05:30:47 <firstyear> Or on twitter. One of the two.
05:30:50 <firstyear> Sure thing ksinny :)
05:30:55 <ksinny> Thanks :)
05:30:59 <sayan> firstyear: then go ahead with filing an issue
05:31:51 * ksinny will try to help folks to reach out their questions to right people if she doesn't have answers :)
05:32:09 <firstyear> ksinny: That's a perfect response, and a valuable skill :)
05:32:31 <ksinny> Thanks :)
05:32:45 <ksinny> did I miss any question?
05:33:40 <AdrianCeleste> Oh oh
05:33:45 <AdrianCeleste> before question time moves on
05:33:58 <AdrianCeleste> Is there any plan to have a default flatpak repo eventually?
05:34:14 <AdrianCeleste> e.g. flathub, maybe on provided by fedora, etc
05:34:28 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Ohhh that's a great question!
05:35:10 <AdrianCeleste> It seems silly to not ship one at the moment.
05:35:25 <firstyear> I think it would really help with usability out of the box :)
05:36:13 <ksinny> AdrianCeleste: I can't say much about it, I haven't spent time in flatpak area. For now, I can say that I will get back to you later with answer
05:36:57 * AdrianCeleste nods
05:36:59 <ksinny> #action ksinny get answer for "Is there any plan to have a default flatpak repo eventually ? e.g. flathub, maybe on provided by fedora, etc"
05:37:22 <firstyear> I think another one from me.
05:37:50 <ksinny> #action ksinny get answer for is there any plans to have rpm-ostree handle package groups like DNF does?
05:38:01 <firstyear> I had to add a "custom" rpm to enable firmware for my laptop. Is there any work toward enabling /usr/local/lib/firmware to work? This document explains more. https://fy.blackhats.net.au/blog/html/2017/12/23/using_b43_firmware_on_fedora_atomic_workstation.html
05:38:08 <firstyear> Today, fedora only accepts /lib/firmware
05:38:16 <firstyear> Which of course is read only on atomic :)
05:38:39 <ksinny> #action firstyear creas ticket for his question on custom kernel modules in modprobe.d and how to get them into dracut
05:38:41 <firstyear> A similar and related question "is there a plan to have a local RPM repo where I can put custom or downloaded rpms for installation with rpm-ostree"
05:38:48 <firstyear> ksinny: Already done: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/448
05:38:54 <firstyear> :)
05:38:55 <ksinny> #undo
05:38:55 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by ksinny at 05:38:39 : firstyear creas ticket for his question on custom kernel modules in modprobe.d and how to get them into dracut
05:38:58 <ksinny> thanks
05:39:02 <firstyear> You are most welcome.
05:40:54 <AdrianCeleste> Oh, uh, any plans to make /etc stateless? I may be using that word wrong
05:41:08 <AdrianCeleste> but basically, what I mean is, let's say I stupidly rm -rf /etc
05:41:15 <firstyear> Then next reboot it comes back?
05:41:30 <AdrianCeleste> if /etc were stateless, that wouldn't be an issue because nothing too critical would be kept there
05:41:32 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: I think systemd had some ideas on this, but I think that would take a huge effort to actually achieve realistically .....
05:41:41 <firstyear> Cool idea though.
05:41:54 <firstyear> I guess an issue is you always need "somewhere" to configure stuff
05:41:54 <AdrianCeleste> yeah, those systemd generaters
05:42:00 <AdrianCeleste> Indeed
05:42:05 <AdrianCeleste> idealy the RO section of the FS
05:42:11 <AdrianCeleste> where it couldn't be rm -rf'ed
05:42:55 <firstyear> Well, you could "fake" /etc to some other location for rpm/atomic installs, and then seal it up, and do a diff/copy into /etc on startup to make sure missing files exist.
05:42:58 <firstyear> BUT
05:43:06 <firstyear> what happens if you remove a config legitimately because you don't need it?
05:43:12 <firstyear> say modprobe.d or raddb?
05:43:21 <firstyear> How do you know what's an accident and what's not?
05:43:34 <AdrianCeleste> Don't know honestly :P haven't given this much thought beyond my initial question
05:43:48 <firstyear> "action AdrianCeleste to give this idea more thought" :P
05:44:16 <AdrianCeleste> I have a friend who uses NixOS which apparently has a mostly RO /etc, but Idk if that'd be the way to go about it
05:44:30 <ksinny> Even better, play around with different scenarios and see what happens :)
05:44:41 <ksinny> firstyear: is there a plan to have a local RPM repo where I can put custom or downloaded rpms for installation with rpm-ostree ?
05:44:42 <firstyear> Well, there is a question of "what do you gain from the change"
05:45:40 <ksinny> To answer to this question, you can anyway create your own local repo and add it to /etc/yum.repos.d/ to use it, correct?
05:45:45 <AdrianCeleste> ^
05:45:52 <AdrianCeleste> I was about to say that
05:46:02 <AdrianCeleste> can't repos even just be file://
05:46:05 <AdrianCeleste> so just a directory
05:46:12 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Yes they can
05:46:15 <firstyear> and ksinny yes I did.
05:46:19 <firstyear> if you look at that blog :)
05:46:27 <firstyear> More that ... I'm not the only one who will have this need.
05:46:33 <firstyear> So why not ship a local location "out of the box"?
05:46:38 <ksinny> firstyear: Can you pass the link, sorry I missed it
05:46:53 <firstyear> It's low effort, and enables how tos to say "hey put the rpm here, then rpm-ostree install <name>"
05:47:05 <firstyear> 15:38 < firstyear> I had to add a "custom" rpm to enable firmware for my laptop. Is there any work toward enabling /usr/local/lib/firmware to work? This document explains more.
05:47:09 <firstyear> https://fy.blackhats.net.au/blog/html/2017/12/23/using_b43_firmware_on_fedora_atomic_workstation.html
05:47:17 <AdrianCeleste> hrmm
05:47:31 <AdrianCeleste> ~/Public/rpm would be an interesting place to put it :P
05:47:38 <ksinny> firstyear: Okay, I will ask it and see waht answer do we have
05:47:41 <ksinny> #action ksinny get answer to "is there a plan to have a local RPM repo where I can put custom or downloaded rpms for installation with rpm-ostree ?"
05:47:47 <firstyear> Thank you :)
05:47:51 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Hahaha
05:47:53 * AdrianCeleste will brb
05:47:59 <firstyear> I was thinking "/var/lib/local-rpms"
05:48:00 <firstyear> or something
05:48:03 <ksinny> firstyear: Thanks for the link, will check later
05:48:08 <firstyear> No problem.
05:48:14 <firstyear> ksinny: That's my own blog fyi
05:48:47 <ksinny> firstyear: cool cool
05:49:06 <firstyear> I think that's all from me though :)
05:49:15 <firstyear> "For now" :)
05:49:29 <ksinny> We have official atomic blogs too at http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/ . Just in case you want to write something in future
05:50:57 <firstyear> ksinny: Thanks! I may just do that :)
05:51:04 <ksinny> Also, please join #atomic on freenode if not already and you can ask questions there. There are chances that folks who knows answers will reply whe they are available
05:51:30 * AdrianCeleste is back
05:51:44 <ksinny> #info Atomic ML - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Atomic_WG#Mailing_List
05:51:53 <firstyear> ksinny: Will do
05:51:59 <ksinny> #info IRC channel - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Atomic_WG#IRC
05:52:21 <ksinny> Okay, let's move to next topic
05:52:43 <ksinny> #topic coordinate Project Atomic-related talks for devconf.in
05:52:51 <ksinny> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/447
05:53:45 <ksinny> We have Devconf in Bangalore, India on 4th and 5th August
05:54:30 <ksinny> If anyone has anything to talk about related to Atomic, please propose talk(s)
05:54:32 <snarwade> Yo
05:54:53 <ksinny> CFP is open right now and will close on May 4, 2018
05:55:45 <ksinny> Also, please update the ticket if have already submitted any :)
05:55:59 <ksinny> s/if have/if you have/
05:56:44 <ksinny> So, yeah. Let's make Atomic presence in Devconf India
05:57:37 <ksinny> #topic Open Floor
05:58:10 <firstyear> That's all from me :)
05:58:12 <ksinny> We have 3 minutes if anyone has any open floor topic
05:58:19 <firstyear> Thanks for making a meeting in this timezone !
05:58:33 <ksinny> firstyear: You are welcome :)
05:58:35 <AdrianCeleste> Hrmm, not strictly atomic but
05:58:55 <AdrianCeleste> How do we not loose ground to snappy?
05:59:13 <AdrianCeleste> As in, how should we get more applications on-board w/ flatpak, because snappy seems to be gaining ground.
05:59:36 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Make it easier to creat applications? INcrease fedora usage?
05:59:39 <firstyear> :)
06:00:16 <AdrianCeleste> I made a reddit post announcing how Thunderbird is now available as a flatpak, and the one comment that struck me (and another flathub maintainer) was someone who said
06:00:25 <AdrianCeleste> "Oh, flathub doesn't have firefox, it's useless"
06:00:32 <snarwade> Thanks for the meeting :)
06:00:52 <ksinny> AdrianCeleste: Heh, I think it's about how many people are working
06:01:02 <AdrianCeleste> I do suppose
06:01:06 <ksinny> And definitely more applications will come in future
06:01:11 <AdrianCeleste> it just seems much easier to put your snappy out there right now
06:01:14 <AdrianCeleste> than your flatpak
06:01:18 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Well, firefox is installed via rpm ON ostree ...
06:01:22 <ksinny> Oay, let's close meeting. We are running out of time
06:01:24 <firstyear> And there are some test flatpaks I've seen
06:01:27 <AdrianCeleste> because there's NO oversight to my knowledge on the snappy store
06:01:28 <firstyear> AdrianCeleste: Lets move to #atomic
06:01:32 <ksinny> #endmeeting