09:44:02 <riecatnor> #startmeeting Fedora Badges
09:44:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 09:44:02 2018 UTC.
09:44:02 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
09:44:02 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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09:44:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_badges'
09:44:07 <riecatnor> #chair mleonova
09:44:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: mleonova riecatnor
09:44:12 <riecatnor> hi mleonova!
09:44:19 <mleonova> hey riecatnor!
09:44:22 <riecatnor> how are you today?
09:44:30 <mleonova> doing good) you?
09:44:39 <riecatnor> up before the sun :P
09:44:46 <riecatnor> need coffee lol
09:45:13 <mleonova> hehe
09:45:55 <riecatnor> ok, so! Lot's to talk about today
09:45:59 <riecatnor> lots*
09:46:01 <mleonova> so what should we start with
09:46:04 <riecatnor> hmmm
09:46:20 <riecatnor> So I did want to discuss some outreach regarding design/badges
09:46:47 <riecatnor> bexelbie did suggest we speak about this, regarding mindshare committee
09:46:47 <mleonova> okay
09:46:54 <riecatnor> I do not know a whole lot about it
09:47:02 <riecatnor> can you tell me what you do with that committee?
09:47:17 <mleonova> sure!
09:48:06 <mleonova> In short, Fedora Mindshare Committee represents the outreach leadership in Fedora, i.e. facilitates communication between numerous Fedora teams
09:48:45 <mleonova> so helping people from various teams communicate better
09:49:05 <mleonova> and also solving some of the administrative problems
09:49:10 <mleonova> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/
09:49:56 <riecatnor> I did read that page yep
09:50:02 <riecatnor> I am wondering what you do specifically
09:50:31 <mleonova> as I see it, teams can be unaware of each other's processes. for example, ambassadors may be unclear on how to best work with the design team
09:51:14 <mleonova> so Mindshare will take some of the responsibilities regarding communication between the teams
09:51:46 <mleonova> when we were at FAD I tried to explain from my side as a design rep how to best work with our team to reach optimal goals
09:52:27 <mleonova> because turns out it's not super clear and may be hard to find out
09:53:30 <riecatnor> I see, so people can bring questions to the mindshare committee and as all aspects of fedora are represented, things go a bit smoother
09:53:37 <riecatnor> and the proper advice can be given
09:53:42 <mleonova> also trying to organise design assets for easier consumption. that's from my side
09:53:47 <mleonova> yes
09:54:08 <riecatnor> got it. so you mentioned you had a mindshare meeting recently (yesterday?)
09:54:14 <mleonova> because there are reps from various teams, mindshare can coordinate some of the processes and maybe come up with new ones
09:54:40 <mleonova> uhm, people were still recovering from flock and traveling, so we skipped one
09:54:48 <x3mlinux> .hello x3mboy
09:54:49 <zodbot> x3mlinux: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
09:54:55 <mleonova> heya x3mlinux
09:55:05 <x3mlinux> mleonova o/
09:55:07 <mleonova> we were just talking about mindshare
09:55:23 <riecatnor> hi x3mlinux!
09:55:44 <x3mlinux> riecatnor, hi. Thanks for the notification
09:55:50 <mleonova> riecatnor, were you able to attend the session at flock?
09:55:51 <x3mlinux> :D
09:56:02 <riecatnor> mleonova: ok, gotcha. So the reason this all came up is, end of flock session, their was an open forum
09:56:12 <riecatnor> mleonova: no I was not :(
09:56:18 <x3mlinux> I'm doing arepas, so kinf of just reading
09:56:25 <mleonova> ah, okay
09:56:36 <mleonova> you doing what, x3mlinux?)
09:56:45 <x3mlinux> Arepas
09:56:55 <x3mlinux> It's a typical food from my country
09:56:59 <mleonova> oh!
09:56:59 <x3mlinux> Hard to explain
09:57:07 <mleonova> okay, I'll google
09:57:08 <riecatnor> And at the forum, basically they asked people to ask questions, commentary, on flock, fedora in general
09:57:44 <riecatnor> And I had noticed since day 1, that at flock this year, no very active design members besides myself in attendance, very minimal graphic design talks/workshops
09:58:07 <mleonova> right
09:58:12 <riecatnor> And it was bothersome to me
09:58:37 <riecatnor> So I asked if they felt it was indicative of a larger issue, or it was just a fluke? and if they do feel it is an issue, what can we do to fix it
09:58:46 <mleonova> yup
09:59:07 <riecatnor> So, we had some people unable to attend due to personal things
09:59:32 <riecatnor> but I still do think its an issue
09:59:51 <mleonova> do you feel it's been better before?
10:00:37 <riecatnor> for example, because 1 or 2 people can't come for personal reasons, that means there is only 1 person? when there are multitudes of people for plenty of areas of fedora, and a sea of developers. I do see that Fedora is developer centric and thats fine
10:00:50 <riecatnor> Yes, I do think so
10:00:59 <mleonova> I wonder what changed
10:01:39 <mleonova> seems to me , too, that there used to be much more focus on design and more people doing it
10:02:57 <riecatnor> So... yeah. I think this is something that could be discussed in design team meeting as well
10:03:17 <riecatnor> I do think maybe it's time to do some outreach and bring in actual designers
10:03:24 <riecatnor> I might have a chance to do this soon
10:03:29 <x3mlinux> o/
10:03:35 <mleonova> that would be great!
10:03:42 <riecatnor> there will be a Fedora Womens Day at RIT and I am going to attend minimally
10:03:58 <riecatnor> it will coincide with a group called women in tech
10:04:00 <x3mlinux> !
10:04:07 <mleonova> so do you think more going to events and promoting Fedora Design?
10:04:42 <riecatnor> so I am not sure if it will be mostly developer centric or what, but barrier to entry is not that hard. and we need also people who want to do ui/ux
10:04:45 <mleonova> I wonder if we could get in on some action with the general Fedora group, that goes to conferences
10:05:00 <mleonova> absolutely, yes
10:05:20 <x3mlinux> Ambassadors
10:05:22 <riecatnor> almost more importantly than graphics, because all of us already involved can do that
10:05:34 <mleonova> x3mlinux, ambassadors what?
10:05:51 <x3mlinux> Ambassadors are the group who attend conferences
10:06:05 <mleonova> so talk to them, so they would promote design?
10:06:15 <mleonova> x3mlinux, what's the best way to do that?
10:06:33 <riecatnor> so, maybe to get the ambassadors some assets/handouts/speaking points about the design team
10:07:32 <x3mlinux> IMHO the design team needs an onboarding strategy, because the process is very simple, but for some reason people is not coming. So attending conferences showing: 1. The work of the team, 2. The tools for image creating and processing we use 3. Reaching ambassadors with this Talking Points
10:07:41 <x3mlinux> This should help a little bit
10:07:51 <mleonova> this already sounds like something Mindshare can get involved in)
10:07:55 <x3mlinux> Inside the community, some post ok the commblog will help to
10:08:01 <x3mlinux> As well as in the magazine
10:08:32 <riecatnor> another point that I feel needs to be brought up is this-- even if very quickly -- we have issues with interested people who are beginners. it is tough for them to take criticism because design is so closely linked to personal creation. i think this is more true for design than something like coding
10:08:41 <x3mlinux> That's what i can tell from experience
10:08:54 <riecatnor> x3mlinux: I think that plan is a great one
10:09:15 <riecatnor> I think the commblog is good, tho I believe fedora magazine is more user centric?
10:09:28 <x3mlinux> That's right
10:09:50 <x3mlinux> But for begginers there is no tutorials on gimp or inkscape or krita or anything
10:09:57 <mleonova> riecatnor, do you think you can put together a ticket here https://pagure.io/mindshare/issues?
10:10:02 <x3mlinux> Just a lot of mentions about how great they are
10:10:13 <mleonova> x3mlinux, that's not entirely true..
10:10:16 <riecatnor> there are plenty of tutorials
10:10:20 <riecatnor> so many
10:10:25 <mleonova> there are a bunch of great ones for Inkscape
10:10:34 <mleonova> yeah
10:10:34 <riecatnor> We do not make them all ourselves, but plenty of people use them
10:10:43 <riecatnor> ok, so to gather resources for the software we use
10:11:30 <x3mlinux> Well, you know this part better than me, but it tooks me forever to find some tools in Inkscape for creating my first badge, that's why I made that comment
10:12:12 <mleonova> x3mlinux, right... getting into vector design has a high learning curve
10:12:59 <riecatnor> mleonova: what do you think about my comment regarding beginners/criticism
10:13:05 <riecatnor> we see it time and time again with badges
10:13:17 <x3mlinux> So, put everything we dicuss into a ticket and I will be able to help you with this issue
10:13:26 <mleonova> riecatnor, it is hard, I agree
10:13:26 <x3mlinux> Let's bring more designers to Fedora
10:13:35 <mleonova> x3mlinux, true that!!
10:13:38 <riecatnor> what can we do to make that better mleonova?
10:14:21 <riecatnor> I think its tough because I do not think there should be a lower standard of design, I am pretty positive that we don't lower coding standards to be inclusive
10:14:38 <mleonova> riecatnor, maybe encourage them more and help out whenever we can
10:14:48 <x3mlinux> +1
10:15:42 <riecatnor> I feel like we do that already
10:17:07 <riecatnor> so maybe we need to get some mentoring resources together for ourselves as well, that are specific to design
10:17:19 <riecatnor> I remember being in my first graphic design class. it was tough!
10:18:18 <riecatnor> ok, I am working on a ticket
10:18:19 <mleonova> riecatnor, oh yeah!
10:18:35 <mleonova> I hated the very first coreldraw class
10:18:45 <mleonova> felt like 2 hours of torture
10:18:51 <riecatnor> hahaha
10:19:02 <riecatnor> I remember my first crits in art school, that was my torture
10:19:14 <mleonova> lol
10:19:23 <riecatnor> now I am able to take criticism objectively
10:19:38 <riecatnor> especially with anything I do for Fedora-- because I realize there is a bigger picture
10:19:56 <riecatnor> if someone wanted to trash talk my paintings- I would be a bit less objective :P
10:20:14 <mleonova> so x3mlinux, if you need any help with the tools, just ask
10:20:30 <mleonova> riecatnor, yeah, that takes time
10:22:52 <x3mlinux> Sure I will
10:23:09 <x3mlinux> It's just that I'm UTC-3
10:23:48 <riecatnor> x3mlinux: you can always telegram me and I will get back to you
10:23:56 <riecatnor> not immediately always, but I will do what i can
10:24:01 <mleonova> me too
10:26:22 <x3mlinux> Thanks
10:27:46 * riecatnor writing up ticket
10:28:23 <mleonova> thanks, riecatnor =)
10:33:20 <riecatnor> ok, almost done and I will show you guys to review
10:33:23 <riecatnor> in the meantime
10:33:32 <riecatnor> x3mlinux: can you send your ticket for review?
10:33:37 <riecatnor> mleonova: please take a look :)
10:35:01 <x3mlinux> https://pagure.io/fedora-badges/issue/615
10:35:22 * mleonova looks
10:35:48 <mleonova> x3mlinux, congrats on the first badge btw!
10:36:01 <x3mlinux> :D
10:36:22 <x3mlinux> A great advice is don't be tired or with jetlag when working with inkscape
10:36:25 <x3mlinux> xD
10:36:41 <mleonova> haha
10:37:56 <mleonova> x3mlinux, I think you did good! love how they are not the same now
10:38:30 <riecatnor> ok sorry to interrupt.. please read this and let me know if changes needed/ or anything added
10:38:32 <riecatnor> At the Fedora Badges Design team meeting this morning, we discussed the low participation in the Design team as a whole, and also Fedora Badges. This was something I noticed at Flock this year, and after discussing with @mleonova we both agreed we are seeing a downward trend. To combat this, we would like to begin taking some measures to increase participation on the Design team and we believe this would be well suited for
10:38:34 <riecatnor> the Mindshare committee to address.
10:38:38 <riecatnor> Below are a list of ideas/fragments/thoughts on ways we can improve participation:
10:38:40 <riecatnor> Reiterate, reorganize, make clear an onboarding strategy for Fedora design/Badges
10:38:42 <riecatnor> Promote design team at events by doing the following:
10:38:44 <riecatnor> - Show the work of the team
10:38:46 <riecatnor> - Speak/teach about the tools we use
10:38:48 <riecatnor> - Provide Ambassadors with content/speaking points
10:38:50 <riecatnor> Promoting within Fedora community by posting on CommOps Blog/Magazine
10:38:52 <riecatnor> - Requesting that they reach out to designers they may know?
10:38:54 <riecatnor> - Revitalize participation from inactive designers through inspiration
10:38:56 <riecatnor> Gathering mentoring resources & tools for current design team members
10:38:58 <riecatnor> - Increasing retention rate
10:39:00 <riecatnor> Gathering design resources for tools we use
10:39:02 <riecatnor> - Tutorials, youtube videos, blog posts
10:39:04 <riecatnor> - Maybe create a page (that looks good!!) that has a place for all of this to live
10:39:08 <riecatnor> Issues we face/foresee:
10:39:10 <riecatnor> - For designer newbies, hard for them to take criticism. From personal experience with Badges, we have plenty of people create one draft, we review, and then they are gone forever.
10:39:12 <riecatnor> - There is a lot of people in the world who take advantage of designers/artists. Pay them with "exposure" etc-- and there is a trend (rightfully so) to not do design work for free. This needs to combated with people who care about the open source philosophy and want to gain experience with design. Maybe our target group should be students?
10:40:43 <mleonova> riecatnor, I think it's perfect
10:40:59 <riecatnor> x3mlinux: anything?
10:41:03 <riecatnor> and thanks mleonova :)
10:41:42 <x3mlinux> Well, it looks amazing
10:41:54 <mleonova> so do post =)
10:41:58 <riecatnor> ok cool!
10:43:05 <riecatnor> ok so looking at your badge x3mlinux :)
10:43:15 <mleonova> x3mlinux, regarding the badge - I think we could reduce the number of elements a little, to maybe just that one package. and make the panda a different color, so it's not the same with the background
10:43:42 <riecatnor> Panda should be Fedora blue probably, and without a shirt :)
10:44:00 <x3mlinux> Ok, I can do that
10:44:09 <linuxmodder> .hello2
10:44:10 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@gmail.com>
10:44:13 <riecatnor> the panda and the badger are two different sizes if that makes sense, I would say make the badger a bit bigger
10:44:16 <mleonova> I'll leave you to continue without me, as I really really have to get to lunch :D will add more comments later if needed. thank you all so much, great meeting today!
10:44:23 <riecatnor> ok, thanks mleonova!!
10:44:26 <riecatnor> you rock!
10:44:33 <x3mlinux> Thanks
10:44:35 <mleonova> back at you!))
10:44:40 <x3mlinux> Bon apetit
10:44:44 <mleonova> =)
10:45:06 <riecatnor> x3mlinux: another point is keep the stroke around the package white
10:45:14 <riecatnor> the idea will still come across
10:45:31 <riecatnor> and also for the badger, remove the cape :)
10:45:47 <riecatnor> I'd say, make those changes and then we can look at it again
10:46:10 <x3mlinux> Ok
10:46:20 <x3mlinux> I can do allof that today
10:46:24 <x3mlinux> :D
10:46:31 <x3mlinux> It's not too much
10:46:35 <riecatnor> ok, thank you!! x3ml
10:46:43 <riecatnor> oops :P
10:46:56 <riecatnor> yeah, I should get going too
10:47:57 <x3mlinux> Mee too
10:47:59 <x3mlinux> Me*
10:48:17 <x3mlinux> So, thanks for taking my badge and I will help wuth the ticket
10:50:36 <riecatnor> thanks for coming x3mlinux!
10:50:42 <riecatnor> your input was very helpful :P)
10:50:46 <riecatnor> :)
10:50:51 <riecatnor> have a good one
10:50:54 <riecatnor> #endmeeting