05:00:50 <ksinny> #startmeeting fedora_coreos_apac_meeting
05:00:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 18 05:00:50 2018 UTC.
05:00:50 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
05:00:50 <zodbot> The chair is ksinny. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:00:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:00:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_coreos_apac_meeting'
05:01:05 <paragan> .hello pnemade
05:01:06 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com>
05:01:07 <ksinny> #topic roll call
05:01:14 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
05:01:14 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
05:01:16 <siddharthvipul> .hello siddharthvipul1
05:01:16 <prakashmishra> .hello prakashmishra1598
05:01:18 <zodbot> siddharthvipul: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
05:01:20 <mzee1000> .hello mohammedzee1000
05:01:20 <zodbot> prakashmishra: prakashmishra1598 'Prakash Mishra' <prakashmishra1598@gmail.com>
05:01:23 <zodbot> mzee1000: mohammedzee1000 'Mohammed Zeeshan Ahmed' <mohammed.zee1000@gmail.com>
05:01:52 <siddharthvipul> good morning o/
05:01:55 <bhavin192> .hello2
05:01:57 <zodbot> bhavin192: bhavin192 'Bhavin Gandhi' <bhavin7392@gmail.com>
05:02:51 <ksinny> #chair paragan siddharthvipul prakashmishra mzee1000 bhavin192 sumantro
05:02:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: bhavin192 ksinny mzee1000 paragan prakashmishra siddharthvipul sumantro
05:03:11 <ksinny> Hello and good morning to all :)
05:03:37 <prakashmishra> Good morning, ksinny :)
05:03:45 <mzee1000> Good morning
05:04:18 <ksinny> We don't hav any action item from previous meeting
05:04:31 <paragan> Good morning
05:05:50 <ksinny> As we discussed during last meeting that if we don't have anything specific to discuss , we will go through one of the issues from Fedora-coreos-tracker and discuss here
05:06:06 <siddharthvipul> sounds good
05:06:15 <mzee1000> Cool
05:06:34 <ksinny> Haved picked one which is important for initial design discussion for Fedora CoreOS
05:06:47 <ksinny> #topic Allow binaries written in Python via a "platform python" style approach
05:06:56 <ksinny> #link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/32
05:08:44 <ksinny> This issue to discuss about how we can not ship Python or minimize having Python in Fedora CoreOS base system
05:09:17 <ksinny> So far there are 6 goals we cam up with
05:09:32 <ksinny> s/cam/came/
05:09:39 <ksinny> 1 Prevent users from running scripts directly on the host
05:09:39 <ksinny> 2 Prevent shipping/maintaining python
05:09:39 <ksinny> 3 prevent issues where user's python script needs library X that isn't installed
05:09:39 <ksinny> 4 Prevent security issues in python requiring a respin
05:09:39 <ksinny> 5 Less space used on disk + less data transmitted for updates
05:09:40 <ksinny> 6 Better perception we're a minimal OS
05:10:11 <mzee1000> Interesting discussion there.
05:10:17 <siddharthvipul> oops, sorry! started yak shaving and was stuck in nested link jungle
05:10:27 <siddharthvipul> looking
05:11:42 <ksinny> Here, first goal is most important which we want to achieve. Having Python in base os allows user to run any random Python script which may basically break the sytem and these things are hard to debug
05:12:14 <ksinny> So, if we doesn't ship rgular Python then this can be avoided
05:12:54 <mzee1000> True,  do we expect the need for python for anything in the os
05:12:55 <ksinny> also, users python script may require some additional python dependencies
05:13:02 <siddharthvipul> dustymabe's comment, primary goal :)
05:13:09 <ksinny> Such things can we avoided w=if we don't ship Python at all
05:13:43 <prakashmishra> Well, container focused distros like CoreOS (previously) always focussed on having a minimal immutable base system with container runtimes like Docker and rkt and nothing else
05:13:53 <ksinny> But some packages like firewalld which we need in base OS depends on Python
05:14:01 <siddharthvipul> stupid question, doesn't it use anaconda installer?
05:14:16 <paragan> I think its installer is different?
05:14:28 <siddharthvipul> ah, makes sense
05:15:10 <ksinny> To solve such issue we can either re-implement bits using Python or run it in something like system container
05:15:35 <ksinny> but I believe both are not easily available(maybe in future)
05:15:35 <prakashmishra> Not sure if this question makes much sense, But can we not run firewallD inside a container on the host
05:16:07 <prakashmishra> Exactly, That is what I meant to say, ksinny :)
05:16:18 <ksinny> So, here comes the platform-python
05:16:50 <ksinny> platform-python provides some core functionality and doesn't brings in whol stack
05:16:53 <ksinny> 3link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Platform_Python_Stack
05:17:30 <ksinny> prakashmishra: I think not yet but definitely in future:)
05:18:03 <ksinny> so, our main goal is to get rid enirley of Python but if it's not possible we can with platform python approach
05:18:27 <ksinny> s/get rid enirley of Python/ get rid enirley of Python from base Fedoa CoreOS/
05:18:41 <ksinny> <siddharthvipul> stupid question, doesn't it use anaconda installer?
05:18:54 <ksinny> yes
05:19:17 <ksinny> But insatller is not required during runtime
05:19:38 <sumantro> unless we have an artifact .. we never know but installer should be anaconda :)
05:19:50 <sumantro> But insatller is not required during runtime --true
05:20:22 <mzee1000> Interesting problem. Will that not mean we are just shippin hidden python
05:21:09 <prakashmishra> I second that, mzee1000
05:21:40 <ksinny> It is not really easy task to just not have Python, it definitely needs more investigation which includes getting list of all pakcages which relies on Python and is needed in Fedora CoreOS
05:22:41 <siddharthvipul> ksinny, this is what I have been searching since then
05:22:44 <ksinny> Also, Container Linux managed to not ship Python in BaseOs. SO, this is not really an impossible task :)
05:22:52 <mzee1000> True, so I guess this would be an intermediate fix
05:22:55 <siddharthvipul> python dependent things
05:23:30 <ksinny> <mzee1000> True, so I guess this would be an intermediate fix
05:23:33 <prakashmishra> Yup, Container linux did a really good job at having a minimal container focused distro
05:23:43 <ksinny> yes, we can say that
05:24:46 <mzee1000> dnf need for python could be eliminated with microdnf
05:25:06 <mzee1000> ?
05:25:12 <ksinny> It's an interesting topic and we will get to know more as we know more what all packages get blocked with this
05:25:18 <ksinny> and then fixing it
05:26:02 <ksinny> mzee1000: We don't use dnf directly here, it is managed by rpm-ostree
05:26:51 <ksinny> mzee1000: Is microdnf written in C?
05:27:03 <ksinny> or Python or something else?
05:27:09 <mzee1000> ksinny: yes
05:27:13 <mzee1000> It's in C
05:27:31 <ksinny> mzee1000: cool
05:28:11 <ksinny> As far as I understand we use rpm-ostree to install packages and rpm-ostree internall uses libdnf
05:28:21 <ksinny> internally*
05:28:44 <ksinny> so ideally, dnf should be of concern here
05:29:27 <ksinny> so, if someone has any further questions, feel free to commet on ticket
05:29:34 <ksinny> or if some suggestions
05:29:44 <ksinny> #topic Open Floor
05:29:52 <ksinny> anything here?
05:30:03 <ksinny> we are mostly out of time :)
05:30:06 <sumantro> nothing from my end
05:30:14 <prakashmishra> nothing from me
05:30:16 <ksinny> #endmeeting