14:00:38 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2018-09-26)
14:00:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 14:00:38 2018 UTC.
14:00:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:38 <zodbot> The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2018-09-26)'
14:00:40 <mattdm> #meetingname council
14:00:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
14:00:42 <mattdm> #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck bexelbie dperpeet Amita dgilmore pbrobinson tyll bcotton
14:00:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: Amita bcotton bexelbie dgilmore dperpeet jkurik jwb langdon mattdm pbrobinson robyduck tyll
14:00:44 <mattdm> #topic Introductions, Welcomesy
14:00:55 * pbrobinson is vaguely sort of here
14:01:19 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:01:21 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bexelbie@redhat.com>
14:01:23 <mattdm> hi everyone!
14:01:32 <dperpeet> .hello dperpeet
14:01:33 <zodbot> dperpeet: dperpeet 'None' <dperpeet@redhat.com>
14:01:42 <mattdm> pbrobinson: so the IoT subproject report and iot meeting overlap
14:01:58 <bcotton> .hello2
14:01:59 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
14:01:59 <mattdm> Do you want to take the last 20 minutes of the hour and bring everyone from the iot meeting to this channel?
14:02:08 <mattdm> and then we can start with dperpeet?
14:02:26 <dperpeet> I'm fine with any timeslot
14:02:40 <mattdm> and sandwich modularity in the middle? or modularity first then ci?
14:03:05 <mattdm> also hi dperpeet! glad you could make it and hope this timeslot is better for you in general!
14:03:12 <dperpeet> it is, thank you :)
14:03:24 <langdon> .hello2
14:03:25 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@redhat.com>
14:03:47 <bcotton> langdon: sorry, you have to go away for 2 more mintues ;-)
14:03:55 <pbrobinson> mattdm: I'm battling this week to even complete single tasks, I'm going to fail multitasking
14:04:05 <langdon> bcotton: :)
14:04:58 <mattdm> pbrobinson: yeah, that's why I'm suggesting bringing the whole thing here and single-tasking
14:05:00 <bexelbie> can we also touch on a copule of open tickets this week?
14:05:17 <mattdm> bexelbie: maybe?
14:06:01 * mattdm going to wait on peter for that and then set the agenda in a minute...
14:06:32 <pbrobinson> can I go last?
14:06:37 <mattdm> pbrobinson: yes. :)
14:06:40 <mattdm> #topic Agenda
14:06:47 <mattdm> 1. CI Update from dperpeet
14:06:48 <pbrobinson> I want to get the PRD approved and then I think most of the meeting should be quick
14:06:56 <mattdm> 2. Modularity Update from langdon
14:07:04 <mattdm> 3. IoT Update from pbrobinson
14:07:12 <mattdm> 4. Ticket fun with bexelbie as time permits
14:07:25 <mattdm> #topic CI Objective Update
14:07:38 <dperpeet> Hey
14:07:48 <dperpeet> so I haven't updated the objective pag
14:07:49 <dperpeet> page
14:07:56 <dperpeet> starting with the not so good news :)
14:08:06 <mattdm> heh
14:08:20 <langdon> dperpeet: update w/?
14:08:21 <dperpeet> but other than that, the pipelines for f27, f28, f29 and rawhide are running
14:08:36 <langdon> dperpeet: like just changes? or are you starting to put status updates there?
14:08:46 <dperpeet> langdon, current status
14:09:00 * langdon should look at doing that
14:09:07 <mattdm> yes that'd be helpful :)
14:09:16 <dperpeet> and we're waiting for a patch to be merged to the ci-resultsdb-listener
14:09:27 <dperpeet> there was a bug and with that, results should be showing up properly again
14:09:58 <mattdm> dperpeet: what does that patch enable?
14:10:19 <dperpeet> #link https://pagure.io/ci-resultsdb-listener/pull-request/8
14:10:27 <dperpeet> "This PR adds the results from the allpackages pipeline to resultsdb for use in Bodhi."
14:10:55 <dperpeet> seeing the results is very important to gaining trust in the results so we can gate
14:11:50 <mattdm> yes, absolutely. thanks :)
14:11:52 <dperpeet> I think that's about it
14:12:09 <dperpeet> so I'm cautiously optimistic
14:12:09 <mattdm> there's also the youtube recording from brian stinson's report last week
14:12:26 <mattdm> i forgot to edit it #derlictionofduties
14:12:33 <mattdm> i'll do that right after this meeting
14:13:07 <mattdm> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxES__nYN3Q
14:13:20 <mattdm> if you go there right now, you'll get the before-and-after thing
14:13:30 <mattdm> but i'll trim it and the link will be good in a bit :)
14:13:36 <dperpeet> thank you
14:13:56 <mattdm> dperpeet: is there any work towards the thing I really want, which is getting that feedback to fedpkg?
14:14:20 <dperpeet> the short answer is no, at least from our side
14:14:21 <mattdm> that's the point it needs to be at to be 'in my face' with my current packaging workflow
14:14:44 <mattdm> so who can I dangle enticements in front of to get that going?
14:15:40 <dperpeet> let's have a discussion on what we actually want there
14:16:11 <mattdm> dperpeet: ok. maybe not at this meeting -- where do you want me to launch this? a ticket somewhere? email? video call? I'm open :)
14:17:09 <dperpeet> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/8
14:17:20 <mattdm> dperpeet++
14:17:22 <dgilmore> sorry in work meeting
14:17:23 <dperpeet> I have created a ticket where I would be happy for a discussion around this
14:17:30 <mattdm> perfect, I'll follow up there.
14:17:37 <dperpeet> thank you!
14:17:42 <mattdm> Is there anything else coming up that needs council attention?
14:18:13 <dperpeet> I think we should look at what the gating target is
14:18:24 <dperpeet> but I need to phrase that as a proper proposal to discuss
14:19:00 <mattdm> dperpeet: *nod*. Looking forward to the proposal :)
14:19:08 <dperpeet> so am I :)
14:19:12 <mattdm> heh
14:19:17 <mattdm> okay, let's move to modularity?
14:19:28 <dperpeet> all good from my side
14:19:30 <mattdm> unless anyone else has questions or comments?
14:20:23 <mattdm> ok :)
14:20:30 <mattdm> #topic Modularity Objective Update
14:20:36 <mattdm> what news, langdon?
14:20:42 <mattdm> ooh I have one :)
14:20:52 <mattdm> #info F29 beta launched with Modularity enabled everywhere!
14:20:53 <langdon> shoot
14:20:56 <langdon> ha!
14:21:05 <langdon> well.. we have some dnf bugs that are blocking that
14:21:14 <mattdm> #info DNF still reallllly rocky
14:21:17 <langdon> but.. we hope there will be fixes
14:21:48 <mattdm> yeah, I note three separate big DNF issues on
14:21:50 <mattdm> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F29_bugs
14:22:13 <langdon> 1616167 is the yucky one though
14:22:28 <langdon> whats the zodbot trick? put a period in front?
14:22:38 <mattdm> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1616167
14:22:43 <mattdm> dunno. there's a link :)
14:22:54 <langdon> .1616167
14:22:59 <langdon> me either
14:23:15 <langdon> we are also trying to reboot the modularity wg to make it easier for casual contributors to participate.. may take us a month or two though
14:23:28 <mattdm> langdon: that sounds good.
14:23:40 <mattdm> So, I went through the current process of making a module.
14:23:43 <mattdm> It was fine.
14:23:44 <langdon> one big part is a move to taiga.io for actions.. and some more regular meetings in jit.si
14:23:55 <langdon> fedmod is really coming along too
14:24:07 <langdon> with tools to generate modulemd w/ extra packages as well..
14:24:10 * pbrobinson is more here
14:24:14 <langdon> also including a linter for modules
14:24:21 <mattdm> langdon: we are looking at hosted taiga for fedora in general
14:24:41 <langdon> #info fedmod is more and more capable with helping your module creation and maintainance tasks
14:24:57 <langdon> #link https://pagure.io/modularity/fedmod
14:25:39 <langdon> mattdm: yeah.. heard that.. i think it is a good idea.. and I would really like to see some collab there.. i think integrations with fedora-infra would be beneficial to tiaga
14:25:52 <langdon> we can also give them feedback from a large, public use case..
14:26:11 <langdon> so i really hope we establish a relationship with the devs.. not just treat it as a hoster
14:26:26 <mattdm> yeah. we had a meeting with someone from the company behind it and they seem really awesome. very open source friendly
14:26:33 <langdon> and open source :)
14:26:43 <langdon> thats about all i had unless people have qs
14:27:31 <mattdm> I have a request. :) I'd like the "freshmaker" thing to get additional priority. Right now, it's really kind of hard to sell the benefit of switching to modules for many packagers
14:27:41 <mattdm> especially the ones that basically just update into rawhide
14:27:52 <mattdm> and *maybe* sometimes into latest release
14:28:10 <mattdm> having builds not even be a step would really help
14:28:27 <langdon> mattdm: yeah.. im with you.. the team behind it is just so swamped.. i wonder if we can figure out how to give them more help
14:28:53 <mattdm> that team = threebean and factory?
14:28:58 <langdon> mattdm: yeah..
14:29:04 <mattdm> I'll see what I can do
14:29:51 <mattdm> okay, next topic. pbrobinson, you're up :)
14:29:58 <mattdm> #topic IoT Objective Update
14:30:12 <pbrobinson> yay
14:30:16 * pbrobinson runs
14:30:19 <mattdm> lol
14:30:25 <pbrobinson> so we're going OK
14:30:53 <pbrobinson> we approved the IoT PRD at today's meeting
14:30:57 <pbrobinson> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/PRD
14:30:57 <mattdm> NICE
14:31:17 <pbrobinson> still some tweaks needed, feedback is very welcome
14:31:38 <mattdm> cool. do you think it's ready to file with council as proposed edition for f30?
14:31:55 <pbrobinson> yes, I think we are
14:32:07 <mattdm> cool. file ticket whenever you're ready
14:32:14 <pbrobinson> the F-29 base release is looking OK and is quite usuable
14:32:29 <mattdm> I know there was (to put it lightly) some stress with the web site
14:32:44 <mattdm> hopefully that's in a better place now?
14:32:48 <pbrobinson> once we get multi arch containers I will move a bunch of the included bits to a IoT toolbox container
14:32:58 <mattdm> bcotton is, aiui, organizing some followup
14:33:13 <pbrobinson> I think we're getting there, I think we should be in a good place next week
14:33:20 <pbrobinson> #link ~https://iot.stg.fedoraproject.org/
14:33:22 <bcotton> mattdm is correct
14:33:25 <pbrobinson> #undo
14:33:25 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x7f5643dd3d90>
14:33:29 <pbrobinson> #link https://iot.stg.fedoraproject.org/
14:34:11 * mattdm looks
14:35:03 <mattdm> pbrobinson: is that iso an installer, or a ready-to-run image?
14:35:20 <mattdm> and why does it have dvd in the title?
14:35:23 <pbrobinson> mattdm: the primary deliverable atm is the ready-to-run image
14:35:25 <mattdm> what's a dvd? :-P
14:35:34 <langdon> its like a cd
14:35:37 <pbrobinson> we will have the iso there as a "other" link
14:36:09 <pbrobinson> mattdm: there was an misunderstanding, we're going to sort it out in the next edit
14:36:18 <mattdm> I'd like this page to have at least a link to docs explaining what to do with an image once downloaded
14:36:34 <pbrobinson> mattdm: completely
14:36:54 <pbrobinson> I want to spend quite a bit of time on this probably next week so we can get stuff nailed down
14:37:26 <mattdm> pbrobinson: do those docs exist? seems like something where someone new with an interest could plug into the group
14:37:51 <pbrobinson> it'll basically be a "tech preview" and would like to see something to that effect on this page because I expect it to get reasonable coverage and I want that to be clear
14:38:13 <pbrobinson> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/GettingStarted
14:38:46 <mattdm> #help Update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/GettingStarted to use new docs system
14:38:48 <mattdm> :)
14:39:10 <bexelbie> is that ready to be moved?
14:39:17 <pbrobinson> mattdm: yes please, I would love to move most of the IoT stuff to a help sub section and route all wiki bits there
14:39:21 <bexelbie> because it could be done sooner that pbrobinson expects
14:39:34 <mattdm> heh, like RIGHT NOW?
14:39:39 <bexelbie> possibly :P
14:39:43 <pbrobinson> bexelbie: I am very welcome to that if people can assist
14:39:46 <bexelbie> but really I have meetings today
14:40:04 <bexelbie> pbrobinson, can you open a ticket in the docs-fp-o repo and tag me on it ... that'll keep it in my queue and let us also put an easyfix on it
14:40:04 <pbrobinson> bexelbie: got cycles tomorrow morning to discuss?
14:40:17 <pbrobinson> OK
14:40:22 <bexelbie> pbrobinson, yes to tomorrow morning
14:40:31 <bexelbie> we may also want to alert asamalik but I don't expect him to do it
14:40:32 <mattdm> I feel like we're helping! Yay!
14:40:37 <bexelbie> but we will be using his AMAZING template
14:40:46 * langdon pats mattdm on the back
14:40:56 <langdon> bexelbie: "his"?
14:41:11 <mattdm> It'll be awesome to have iot docs in the docs site at f29 launch
14:41:28 <bexelbie> langdon, asamalik put together a template repo for new docs units
14:41:37 <pbrobinson> yes please, and if we could have like an IoT subsection we could put a LOT of stuff there
14:41:51 * pbrobinson suspects he's going to need to learn meltdown
14:41:59 <pbrobinson> dammit, markdown
14:42:01 <langdon> bexelbie: i think you should #info/#link that.. i guess he = asamalik but I wanted to make sure it landed in the log :)
14:42:03 <bexelbie> pbrobinson, we also need to talk with pbokoc
14:42:06 <bexelbie> pbrobinson, nope, asciidoc
14:42:09 <bexelbie> it's like markdown with a cape
14:42:13 * asamalik is reading
14:42:18 <pbrobinson> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:42:18 * asamalik also waves
14:42:20 <langdon> bexelbie: and a cane :)
14:42:32 <bexelbie> langdon, but that extension is optional
14:42:46 <pbrobinson> langdon: cane to beat myself with?
14:43:17 <langdon> pbrobinson: kinda.. yeah ... and it optionally goes away over time :)
14:43:22 <pbrobinson> anyway so yes to docs moving to docs.fp.o
14:43:33 <pbrobinson> updates to the website
14:43:39 <pbrobinson> what else do we need to cover?
14:43:58 <langdon> pbrobinson: what is "adoption as the market expands to in number and innovation" in the prd supposed to say? i was reading it, found this typo, and am not sure what the correct fix is..  "adoption as the market expands in number and innovation" ?
14:43:59 <mattdm> publicity for f29 launch
14:44:02 <asamalik> you want to move something to docs? *technically* I can hook you up and publish within an hour...
14:44:18 <asamalik> https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/template  <-- that's the structure
14:44:18 <mattdm> let's make sure we get the talking points on all the cool new stuff you've done to the marketing team
14:44:36 <pbrobinson> langdon: which section
14:44:49 <langdon> Market Opportunity, first para
14:44:53 <langdon> last sentence
14:44:54 <pbrobinson> I need to re-read it over coffee in the morning when I'm fresh
14:45:09 <langdon> pbrobinson: ahh ok.. no worries..
14:45:21 <pbrobinson> langdon: will take a look after this and clarify
14:45:26 <langdon> it's minor but either choice can kinda flip the meaning
14:45:40 <mattdm> i suggest file council ticket submitting prd as is, and we can nitpick from there :)
14:45:48 <mattdm> let's move on to bexelbie's tickets he wants to cover
14:46:00 <bexelbie> Can we move forward with formal approval for #214
14:46:02 <langdon> mattdm: ohh definitely.. its just back story.. i just thought i would fix it in the moment
14:46:11 <mattdm> #topic Tickets
14:46:25 <bexelbie> I'll be working with Miro and Kveta to get it actually done, but I'd like a formal approval even via lazy consensus
14:46:47 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/214
14:47:20 <mattdm> I think that ticket has consensus. Mark it as approved
14:47:30 <bexelbie> Cool
14:47:34 <mattdm> But I'm serious about https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/214#comment-529542
14:47:41 <mattdm> we need to be doing more than just stickers, here
14:47:44 <bexelbie> Also, we need to get some decisions made on #220 - we have good momentum right now
14:47:50 <mattdm> if this is really popular, we should capitalize
14:47:51 <bexelbie> mattdm, agreed - that is a second conversation
14:47:54 <langdon> i love that the python stickers are "post popular".. i aspire to be  post popular
14:48:18 <mattdm> langdon: be careful what you wish for!
14:48:25 <bexelbie> dgilmore, also ping on #219
14:48:41 <langdon> not posthumous... the level of popularity that is after popularity ;)
14:48:45 <mattdm> bexelbie: can you #link these?
14:49:00 * langdon thinks zodbot needs an upgrade
14:49:08 <mattdm> langdon: get on it :)
14:49:14 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/220
14:49:22 <bexelbie> Council needs to weigh in on Flock Locations
14:49:29 <bexelbie> the ticket for dgilmore is a private ticket
14:49:35 <langdon> i swear if i could get a dev env setup for it i would make lots of changes.. but omg.. i have spent hours trying to figure it out in the past
14:49:52 <mattdm> We have three +1s for the proposal as is
14:50:05 <mattdm> if someone doesn't like it, they should weigh in fast :)
14:50:37 <mattdm> i'm particularly looking for feedback from dgilmore as other elected rep, and from amita as diversity advisor
14:50:39 <langdon> my only comment was we might want to shade south.. vs north mid-west
14:50:41 <bexelbie> wow the new pagure interface happily throws away data :(
14:50:56 <mattdm> bexelbie: uh oh, what happened?
14:51:03 <bexelbie> mattdm, I believe the new rep will be attending
14:51:06 <bexelbie> for diversity
14:51:08 <bexelbie> jonatoni,
14:51:26 <bexelbie> mattdm, closing a ticket throws away other unset metadata changes - unlike in the previous version
14:51:38 <mattdm> St Louis instead of Minneapolis?
14:51:39 <dgilmore> bexelbie: its on my ToDo list
14:52:00 <dgilmore> mattdm: I provided my -1 to the dates
14:52:06 <dgilmore> I can not make it at all
14:52:14 <bexelbie> dgilmore, can you provide alternates
14:52:23 <dgilmore> bexelbie: not really
14:52:32 <mattdm> bexelbie: when is that (diversity advisor) effective?
14:52:32 <dgilmore> I do not know what others have on their plates
14:52:38 <bexelbie> dgilmore, meaning your booked until the end of hte year?
14:52:39 <mattdm> dgilmore: I meant for Flock, not the council fad
14:52:50 <bexelbie> mattdm, when the release happens
14:53:06 <mattdm> bexelbie: ah okay.
14:53:11 <dgilmore> mattdm: oh I missed that entirely
14:53:21 <mattdm> well, in that case, still needs feedback from amita *now*
14:53:51 <mattdm> dgilmore: it's linked because bexelbie suggests having council fad in location of possible future flock in order to help scout locations
14:54:08 <bexelbie> mattdm, 220 yes amita should be commenting on that
14:54:15 <bexelbie> 219 is where jonatoni comes into the picture
14:54:35 <mattdm> sorry for confusion. talking about two things at once maybe not best idea in retrospect :)
14:55:39 <dgilmore> mattdm: especially when I am in other meeting I have to focus on
14:56:24 <bexelbie> I see 219 got an update - I'll go back to the "date drawing board"
14:56:35 <bexelbie> if anyone else has similar comments, please add them
14:57:47 <mattdm> okay cool. anything else in the last two minutes?
14:58:08 <langdon> mattdm: i reiterate.. minneapolis in Nov is MUCH more likely to have travel issues
14:58:13 <langdon> and it is cold
14:59:05 <mattdm> langdon: eh, it's not dec/jan
14:59:09 <mattdm> but yes.
14:59:13 <langdon> although.. i suppose if you want to pick a smaller city.. a delta hub isn't bad
15:00:17 <mattdm> exactly.
15:00:20 <mattdm> okay, thanks everyone
15:00:22 <mattdm> #endmeeting