14:00:27 <smooge> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2018-10-11)
14:00:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 11 14:00:27 2018 UTC.
14:00:27 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:27 <zodbot> The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure_(2018-10-11)'
14:00:27 <smooge> #meetingname infrastructure
14:00:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure'
14:00:27 <smooge> #topic aloha
14:00:27 <smooge> #chair nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge tflink threebean cverna mkonecny
14:00:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: cverna mkonecny nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge tflink threebean
14:00:48 * cyberworm54 here
14:00:49 <puiterwijk> .hello2
14:00:50 <zodbot> puiterwijk: puiterwijk 'Patrick "マルタインアンドレアス" Uiterwijk' <puiterwijk@redhat.com>
14:00:56 <odin2016> .hello2
14:00:57 <zodbot> odin2016: odin2016 'David Shier' <davidjshier@gmail.com>
14:01:00 <clime> hi
14:01:01 <nirik> morning
14:01:08 <relrod> morning
14:01:11 <Kal3ssiN> .hello2
14:01:12 <zodbot> Kal3ssiN: Sorry, but you don't exist
14:01:15 <odin2016> hey
14:01:16 <Kal3ssiN> =(
14:01:18 <aikidouke> .hello2
14:01:19 <zodbot> aikidouke: aikidouke 'Zach Villers' <zach@mailup.net>
14:01:28 <sub_pop> .hello linkdupont
14:01:29 <zodbot> sub_pop: linkdupont 'Link Dupont' <link@sub-pop.net>
14:01:29 <mkonecny> hi
14:01:30 <chris787> o/
14:01:40 <puiterwijk> Kal3ssiN: it works if your FAS username is identical to your IRC nick
14:02:04 <Kal3ssiN> would '.hello2 kalessin'work?
14:02:10 <puiterwijk> .hello kalessin
14:02:11 <zodbot> puiterwijk: kalessin 'None' <pablo.localhost@gmail.com>
14:02:12 <puiterwijk> That does
14:02:22 <Kal3ssiN> ack, thanks puiterwijk
14:03:06 <bowlofeggs> .hello2
14:03:08 <zodbot> bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' <rbarlow@redhat.com>
14:03:29 <smooge> hello everyone
14:04:31 <chris787> hello
14:05:01 <Kal3ssiN> hi guys!
14:05:02 <smooge> #topic New folks introductions
14:05:02 <smooge> #info This is a place where people who are interested in Fedora Infrastructure can introduce themselves
14:06:02 <smooge> hello everyone
14:06:14 <sub_pop> I've been poking at fpdc a lot with cverna, so I thought I'd say hello.
14:06:25 <Kal3ssiN> I intro myself a couple of weeks ago, but didnt interact too much ¬¬
14:06:38 <aikidouke> hello to you both! welcome.
14:07:02 <nirik> welcome!
14:07:16 <odin2016> welcome
14:08:26 <Kal3ssiN> is there any onboard guide for infra?
14:08:59 <chris787> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted
14:09:21 <Kal3ssiN> thanks chris787
14:10:52 <Kal3ssiN> ok, who would I ask to joing fi-apprentice group?
14:11:11 <Kal3ssiN> s/joing/join
14:11:53 <smooge> After you have sent an introduction, you can send a message to the oncall person who can add you to the group
14:12:26 <smooge> If you have already sent the introduction, just let the oncall person know and they will do so when they have a chance
14:13:18 <aikidouke> Kal3ssiN: in #fedora-admin channel ;)
14:14:17 <smooge> #topic announcements and information
14:14:17 <smooge> #info tflink is on extended PTO
14:14:17 <smooge> #info Final Freeze has started 2018-10-09
14:14:17 <smooge> #info version 0.13.1 of release-monitoring.org deployed in production - mkonecny
14:15:11 <puiterwijk> #info Changes to the Ansible repo are inbound shortly, anyone who has access to the ansible repo should follow infra-list
14:15:22 <nirik> FYI, openshift 3.11 is out... I might update stg soon...
14:16:03 <smooge> puiterwijk, are these changes like 'get email, read email, rm -rf ~/ansible; git clone new place; go back to your work'
14:16:27 <puiterwijk> smooge: yes, pretty much
14:17:21 <bowlofeggs> puiterwijk: will it do AI and blockchains now
14:17:56 <odin2016> bowlofeggs: artifical blockchain is the word on the street.
14:18:00 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: no
14:18:12 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: hbut it will be moving over to Pagure!
14:18:19 <puiterwijk> So it will do PRs
14:18:56 <bowlofeggs> hahaha
14:19:25 <smooge> artificial blockchain written in a functional contract language
14:19:58 <relrod> hey, no digging at functional languages. :(
14:20:02 <relrod> dig at contracts all you want. :P
14:20:40 <smooge> relrod, well it it was erlang based
14:20:54 * smooge moves into a different standup routine
14:20:57 <smooge> #topic Oncall
14:20:58 <smooge> #info bowlofeggs is on call from 2018-10-04 -> 2018-10-11
14:20:58 <smooge> #info smooge is on call from 2018-10-11 -> 2018-10-18
14:20:58 <smooge> #info relrod is on call from 2018-10-18 -> 2018-10-25
14:20:58 <smooge> #info smooge is on call from 2018-10-25 -> 2018-11-01
14:20:58 <smooge> #info ??? is on call from 2018-11-01 -> 2018-11-??
14:21:00 <smooge> #info Summary of last week: (from bowlofeggs)
14:21:13 <smooge> bowlofeggs, the spot light is on you and the hook is ready
14:22:19 * smooge waits for bowlofeggs to get the clown makeup on and into the tiny car
14:23:42 <bowlofeggs> it was pretty smooth i'd say
14:23:57 <smooge> cool
14:24:02 <bowlofeggs> nothing too crazy
14:24:02 <smooge> you got a lot of things dealt with
14:24:08 <bowlofeggs> didn't need sysadmin-main privs
14:24:16 <bowlofeggs> yeah i did have a few bigs things, like the registry dying
14:24:23 <bowlofeggs> but that would probably have been my responsibility anyway
14:24:36 <bowlofeggs> mostly i just triaged tickets ☺
14:25:00 <smooge> yep. thanks
14:25:01 <bowlofeggs> there was one time i had to summon the ops ☺
14:25:14 <bowlofeggs> other than that i'd say pretty quiet
14:25:20 <bowlofeggs> and nirik took the weekend for me
14:26:59 <smooge> #topic RFR revamp - kevin
14:27:07 <smooge> nirik, you have the floor
14:28:51 <nirik> so, I wanted to toss out an idea I have had for a while and see what people think...
14:29:17 <nirik> we currently have a long and complex request for resources process. This has protected us from being left holding the bag
14:29:24 <nirik> when people make an app and disappear.
14:29:46 <nirik> I was thinking we may want to revamp the process with some new factors in mind:
14:30:04 <nirik> openshift makes it easier to spin things up and work on them
14:30:14 <bowlofeggs> more puiterwijk clones?
14:30:17 <nirik> cloud allows people to work on things in isolation
14:30:49 <nirik> so perhaps we want to add some rfr paths more suited to those...
14:31:08 <nirik> and be less afraid to delete stuff if it doesn't work out.
14:31:14 <bowlofeggs> yeah that sounds cool to me, but i really think we also need the clones so long as they dont' attack
14:31:14 <puiterwijk> Also, maybe make some changes based on supportability (SLEs)?
14:31:26 <nirik> yeah!
14:31:35 <bowlofeggs> yeah tying SLE to how complex the RFR is makes a lot of sense
14:31:39 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: no promises are made as to the future behaviour of clones
14:31:46 <nirik> adding SLE info as part of the process... perhaps request apps display that somehow
14:31:59 <nirik> (sle is Service level expectations)
14:32:07 <bowlofeggs> if you want a strong SLE, you need to do more work, if you are ok with a weak one you are on your own
14:32:10 <bowlofeggs> hahaha
14:32:35 <puiterwijk> Also, I have some plans on how to make the security audit bit for supported apps more measurable and easy to perform, which should be landing soon
14:32:36 <nirik> right...
14:32:51 <bowlofeggs> +1
14:33:12 <nirik> also for openshift some things may be much easier than traditional... like we can make monitoring just built in...
14:33:38 <aikidouke> would these apps be tagged in some way that makes it obvious to infra and end-users?
14:33:41 <nirik> in any case I can write up a proposal, I just wanted to see if everyone thoght it was a good idea
14:33:57 <puiterwijk> aikidouke: yeah, that's the "apps display that somehow" (SLE)
14:34:10 <pingou> domain name?
14:34:12 <nirik> at one point we were going to try and use domains, but I think we need something on apps or in front of them or something
14:34:31 <nirik> unless we add more domains to our openshift that won't help there
14:34:33 <aikidouke> so if I make smooge-on-a-shelf.fpo or something, passersby wont expect smooge-on-a-shelf to have five 9s of uptime
14:34:41 <bowlofeggs> lol
14:35:31 <nirik> yeah. I am not sure how best to do that.
14:35:46 <nirik> we could have a link, but people don't click on all links
14:36:13 <puiterwijk> Maybe on status.fp.o make categories?
14:36:14 <aikidouke> maybe just a banner or something, require/ask creator to use a template for anything public
14:36:19 <odin2016> we talking just web apss, or?
14:36:23 <nirik> we could have fedorastatus.org divide up things... yeah
14:36:23 <odin2016> I was going to say banner as well.
14:36:25 <puiterwijk> so that when people go look at whether it's known down, they can see it there
14:37:30 <nirik> yeah, mostly web apps.
14:38:18 <nirik> also, I was thinking a new RFR process would strongly encourage openshift
14:38:20 <odin2016> I mean, for webapps, there's gotta be someway to impose a banner on random things like that.
14:38:48 <nirik> sure, but in a way thats not intrusive... people wouldn't like a big SLE: LOW over their app
14:38:56 <odin2016> I'd agree with that, we have it, it makes life easy for people (in theory)
14:39:33 <odin2016> doesn't have to be big, was thinking maybe something thin right that the top that could be be dismissed...
14:39:47 <odin2016> I saw something like what I am thinking earlier today.
14:40:14 <nirik> or we could spin up a microservice that has a endpoint for all apps sles! bowlofeggs can write it... :)
14:40:22 <smooge> smooge-on-a-shelf has 1 5 of uptime
14:40:29 <odin2016> beucase, honestly, the average end user / tester is not going to care what the app sle status is.
14:40:39 <nirik> unless/until it's down.
14:40:43 <odin2016> fair.
14:40:49 <bowlofeggs> nirik: haven't you heard? nanoservices are the new hotness
14:40:52 <nirik> so, how about this:
14:40:52 <bowlofeggs> smooge: lol 1 5
14:40:57 <smooge> picoservices
14:41:22 <mkonecny> bowlofeggs: the-new-hotness? https://github.com/fedora-infra/the-new-hotness
14:41:41 <nirik> we modify our proxies httpd 'app is down' page to talk about sles and point to status where we have them in neat rows
14:41:57 <odin2016> smooge: unless they are yocto services, I think we should wait.
14:42:09 <odin2016> nirik: I like that.
14:42:30 <smooge> nirik, that sounds good
14:42:37 <nirik> and/or the openshift one
14:42:40 <bowlofeggs> mkonecny: haha yep
14:42:45 <smooge> pingou, did you get an answer to your question on domain name?
14:43:08 <pingou> smooge: I was referring to our old idea
14:43:15 <pingou> which seems to no longer be the consensus
14:43:17 <nirik> I think domain names won't do it anymore... we have too much mix. ;( but we could add another openshift domain and try it I suppose
14:43:21 <bowlofeggs> we should just make one giant gigaservice that does everything fedora needs
14:43:23 <pingou> so I got my answer yes :)
14:43:28 <bowlofeggs> then there's only 1 SLE
14:44:04 <bowlofeggs> it's all our web apps combined, and it's our DB, operating system, framework, chat system, and so forth
14:44:05 <nirik> I like it. we can retire all our hardware in favor of a single node too!
14:44:10 <bowlofeggs> serverless
14:44:20 <smooge> ok enough
14:44:25 <odin2016> run it on shields!!!
14:44:29 <nirik> right, we are drifting. ;)
14:44:33 * smooge puts everyone back in the clown car
14:44:38 <pingou> blockchain?
14:44:41 * bowlofeggs goes into the glovebox
14:44:45 <smooge> #topic  US daylight savings time ends 2018-11-04. Meeting time?
14:44:48 <pingou> bowlofeggs: again?
14:44:59 <bowlofeggs> pingou: hah, yeah, it's where i belong
14:45:18 <odin2016> that ends already? dang.
14:45:19 <bowlofeggs> poll: how many people actually keep gloves in their gloveboxes?
14:45:22 <smooge> So the US does its daylights savings time weird
14:45:26 <bowlofeggs> stupid DST
14:45:39 <puiterwijk> smooge: we ignore DST, and just keep to the same UTC time?
14:45:40 <bowlofeggs> i propose that the meeting time stay in UTC
14:45:48 <bowlofeggs> since we are a global audience
14:46:02 <odin2016> I'll plus ne that all day...
14:46:03 <mkonecny> EU wants to get rid of this daylight saving time, finally
14:46:14 <smooge> puiterwijk, so I am confused by how this works.. does that put the meeting at 0600 for nirik or 0800 for nirik
14:46:27 <smooge> I think 0600 is way too early
14:46:44 * nirik agrees. :)
14:46:49 <bowlofeggs> i think it does go to 0600 for nirik :(
14:46:51 <puiterwijk> I believe our side of the planet is going forward, so that'd be 0600 yes.
14:46:58 <Kal3ssiN> UTC++
14:47:02 <nirik> but it will be called '7am'
14:47:04 <bowlofeggs> because what we currently call 10:00 will change to 09:00 when we "fall back"
14:47:09 <puiterwijk> smooge: so, I'm fine adjusting the time to one or two hours in the future, but then we stay there...
14:47:13 <bowlofeggs> (in my time zone)
14:47:29 <puiterwijk> Basically, stop the constant shifting with DST, and just stick to one time.
14:47:29 <odin2016> yeah... dst in fall becomes earlier..
14:47:35 <smooge> puiterwijk, I agree
14:47:45 <bowlofeggs> i'd be in favor of changing the time to help nirik, but let's not change it again when we go back to DST
14:47:54 <smooge> I agree
14:48:04 <smooge> I think 1500 would be where we should move to
14:48:08 <nirik> pingou: it's latest for you, what do you think?
14:48:24 <odin2016> right, which means we just shift it a bit forward and never speak of DST ahain.
14:48:24 <odin2016> I like.
14:48:25 <puiterwijk> nirik: it's same for me. It'd be 18:00 for us
14:48:43 <pingou> 6pm will likely not work for me
14:48:46 <nirik> ah, I thought pingou was one zone futher... not sure why.
14:48:55 <pingou> nirik: nope, same tz :)
14:48:58 <odin2016> where are you pingou?
14:49:08 <puiterwijk> pingou: 7pm? That'd be 8am for nirik I think
14:49:10 <pingou> odin2016: France
14:49:22 <pingou> puiterwijk: past 5:30 pm it's kids time for me
14:49:29 <odin2016> pingou: that i what I thought... I'M in germany.
14:49:37 <pingou> odin2016: cool :)
14:50:20 <odin2016> so he's on my time... the meeting is presently at 1600 here... or 4 PM
14:50:30 <pingou> in the period during US time change and EU one, I can try to adjust but long term it won't work for me
14:50:43 <smooge> ok understood
14:50:47 <mkonecny> 4 PM for me currently
14:50:52 <pingou> but if that only blocks me, I don't think we should block on this
14:50:55 <puiterwijk> Yep. So if we move forward 1 hour for DST, it'd be 17:00, until EU switches too, then 18:00
14:51:03 <nirik> is eu changing this year? I know they are thinking of dropping it
14:51:17 <puiterwijk> nirik: we are this year, from 2019 it's per-country I believe
14:51:18 <odin2016> I've not heard we aren't yet.
14:51:24 <pingou> nirik: the EU gave an opinion which all states have to implement
14:51:25 <mkonecny> nirik: yes
14:51:30 <pingou> (hopefully in the same way)
14:51:34 <smooge> so they are currently on DST and are looking to end it. It is a matter if DST starts up in March or not
14:51:51 <mkonecny> nirik: it will take some time till they get rid of DST
14:51:52 <puiterwijk> AI believe the EU at least realizes that deciding to skip DST within a month of it happening is a terrible idea....
14:51:53 <smooge> so they will swap their clocks.. and may not swap them ever again
14:51:59 <nirik> mkonecny: yeah. ;(
14:52:02 <aikidouke> how much faster than the speed of light would nirik or pingou need to go so that they can gain/lose an hour? and what would their ping time be like from the future/past
14:52:19 <pingou> aikidouke: 42
14:52:26 <smooge> ok I will take this to the list.
14:52:32 <aikidouke> :) this is the correct answer
14:52:32 <smooge> it isn't going to get solved here
14:52:35 <mkonecny> smooge: so we end up with correct timezone in the end, nice
14:52:37 <odin2016> pingou: beat me to it.
14:52:51 <smooge> #topic Tickets discussion
14:52:51 <smooge> #info https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/report/Meetings%20ticket
14:52:52 <nirik> 64 bytes from localhost (::1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.136 ms
14:52:52 <nirik> ping localhost -c 1
14:53:02 <aikidouke> lol
14:53:06 <pingou> again, I think nirik has more added-value than I in this meeting and should be prioritized
14:53:17 <nirik> I didn't put in any tickets for meeting...
14:53:23 <smooge> ok I have no network to pagure
14:53:24 <nirik> but if there's any people want to talk about
14:54:19 <smooge> so my network may be going out
14:54:27 <nirik> or we are low on time too...
14:54:33 <bowlofeggs> smooge: yeah i've been having lots of timeouts to pagure this week too
14:54:43 <smooge> #topic Open Floor
14:54:57 <bowlofeggs> smooge: you and i live close - i wonder if it's something to do with the routes/proxies we use?
14:55:59 <puiterwijk> Well, hopefully at some point we'll be able to move it to PHX2, which might make that significantly better.
14:56:02 <smooge> looking at the firefox tool its actually timing out on libavatar
14:56:03 <aikidouke> so I've been fooling around with zod/supy/limnoria and updating plugins to py3 and i noticed we have a Fedora Wiki search function, but nothing for quick docs
14:56:29 <aikidouke> i asked the docs team and right now Antora has no search feature (or our deploy doesnt)
14:57:12 <aikidouke> does Zod need to be able to search the quick docs?
14:57:19 <smooge> no
14:57:36 * aikidouke nods
14:57:42 <aikidouke> well that's easy then :)
14:57:43 <smooge> ok that is my unvarnished opinion
14:57:54 <nirik> search is hard.
14:58:02 <aikidouke> yup
14:58:08 <nirik> but yeah, thats way beyond the scope of a bot plugin.
14:58:21 <smooge> I think zodbot has a lot of things added onto it which were 'fun' and 'cool' and then the person promoting it left and we have a poopton of broken half-features
14:58:25 <aikidouke> do people still use Zod to search the wiki?
14:58:44 <puiterwijk> aikidouke: I.... did not even know that was a thing
14:58:45 <smooge> aikidouke, maybe.
14:58:51 <smooge> I would say it needs to go too
14:58:53 <aikidouke> ahh...this could get to be a really big thing
14:58:55 <puiterwijk> I bet some people will use it. But it can go
14:59:08 <aikidouke> maybe once I have something to share, I can do a list mail
14:59:19 <puiterwijk> aikidouke: if they want to search wiki, there's a searchbar on the wiki, and it's indexes in better search engines
14:59:43 <aikidouke> yep...agreed...okey dokey
14:59:50 <nirik> +1
14:59:56 <aikidouke> ty!
14:59:59 <puiterwijk> indexed*
15:00:03 <smooge> no problem. thanks for the work
15:00:13 <smooge> anything else for open floor?
15:00:19 <puiterwijk> aikidouke: if you need acks on getting rid of old cruft, just ping any of us, and you'll probably get the +1! :D
15:00:33 <aikidouke> thanks puiterwijk!
15:01:10 <aikidouke> umm..not a topic but python 3.7 has some bugs with pipenv or something? I think nb filed one or two..just a heads up
15:01:42 <smooge> okie dokie
15:01:47 <aikidouke> (not specifically 3.7, but pep something that changes a behavior...yadda)
15:01:56 <smooge> I am going to end this in 30 seconds
15:02:03 <aikidouke> but thats an entirely different story all together
15:02:30 <smooge> you can take off the facepaint in 3...2....1
15:02:32 <smooge> #endmeeting