19:00:18 #startmeeting F30 Readiness Meeting 19:00:18 Meeting started Thu Apr 25 19:00:18 2019 UTC. 19:00:18 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 19:00:18 The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:18 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:18 The meeting name has been set to 'f30_readiness_meeting' 19:00:20 #meetingname f30-readiness-meeting 19:00:20 The meeting name has been set to 'f30-readiness-meeting' 19:00:27 #topic Roll Call 19:00:32 .hello mohanboddu 19:00:33 mboddu: mohanboddu 'Mohan Boddu' 19:00:43 And hello all, long time now see :P 19:00:47 s/now/no/ 19:00:52 morning 19:00:56 .hello2 19:00:57 x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' 19:01:14 .hello 19:01:14 str8edgedave: (hello ) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1". 19:01:36 .hello str8edgedave 19:01:37 str8edgedave: Sorry, but you don't exist 19:02:00 aw, poor str8edgedave :-( 19:02:55 lol. I've been gone for around 2 years.. Just getting back into the swing of things. 19:03:04 str8edgedave: welcome back 19:03:12 wb 19:03:15 bcotton: thanks! 19:03:32 bcotton, I think we had a NO-GO decission, right? 19:03:43 x3mboy: don't spoil the surprise :-) 19:04:48 xD 19:04:50 Sorry 19:05:05 okay, let's get started 19:05:21 #info Before each public release all of the groups participating the development of Fedora's next release meet to make sure the release is well-coordinated. 19:05:22 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Readiness_Meetings 19:05:32 #topic Current status 19:05:34 #info Fedora 30 is NO-GO 19:05:39 #info The next Go/No-Go meeting is Friday, 26 April at 1700 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1 19:05:41 #info The release is currently scheduled for 2019-04-30 19:05:53 yes, you saw that right. we're going to shake things up a little bit this time around 19:05:54 And the surprise lasted for 30 sec :D 19:06:31 May I as why F30 is NO-GO? 19:06:37 as=ask 19:06:43 .hello2 19:06:44 str8edgedave: outstanding blocker bugs 19:06:48 nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' 19:06:50 str8edgedave: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2019-04-25/f30-final-go_no_go-meeting.2019-04-25-17.01.html 19:07:20 any other questions on the status or the unusual timeline? 19:07:45 Not from me 19:08:16 okay, the moving on 19:08:25 #topic Cloud WG 19:08:30 anyone here from cloud WG? 19:08:50 dustymabe, e.g. 19:08:53 .hello adamwill 19:08:54 adamw: adamwill 'Adam Williamson' 19:08:55 i'm here is 19:08:56 h 19:09:00 (for qa, not cloud) 19:09:12 .hello2 19:09:13 bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' 19:09:30 adamw: Well, autocloud is part of QA and has Cloud in its name, you can vote :P 19:09:34 lol 19:09:43 okay, looks like it's a sunny day 19:09:45 #topic Design 19:09:45 ....no 19:09:55 anyone here from design? 19:11:09 Can you hear the silence? 19:11:18 #topic Desktop 19:11:33 anyone here from desktop? 19:12:39 Bueller? 19:12:40 this looks like a quick meeting 19:12:41 #topic Documentation 19:13:02 i can say a few things on behalf of the docs team 19:13:07 bcotton: You shouldn't have said no-go at the start of the meeting, seems like everyone is gone ;) 19:13:11 Go for it! 19:13:13 #help Contributions needed for the Release Notes 19:13:16 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/release-notes/issues?status=Open&search_pattern=F30&close_status= 19:13:27 anything else for docs? 19:14:24 #topic Fedora Project Leader 19:14:38 i know mattdm is always ready for the release 19:14:46 * bowlofeggs looks to the sky for mattdm's parachute 19:15:15 its a bird! its a plane! no, it's mattdm! 19:15:15 bcotton: that's a long list of notes to write 19:15:20 mattdm: the very first avenger! 19:15:28 zbyszek: aye :-( 19:15:56 #topic FESCo 19:16:08 i know there's some FESCo-ians here to tell us how ready FESCo is 19:16:11 * bowlofeggs is 1/9th ready 19:16:22 * zbyszek also happens to be 1/9th ready 19:16:42 by adamw's fuzzy counter, that's at least 36 ready 19:16:44 Do all of my identities get a vote? 19:16:46 So, we need at least 5 votes to round it up to 1? 19:16:51 hahaha 19:16:59 No outstanding issues from FESCo. 19:17:02 * nirik should be all ready. 19:17:09 that's 3/9ths! 19:18:02 #topic Infrastructure 19:18:05 I'm rady 19:18:08 *ready 19:18:35 i'm 1/20th (?) ready from infra 19:18:36 however I'd like to get rid of mongo packages from the repos (not a blocker) 19:19:20 mhroncok: I think they should be gone in tonights compose 19:19:52 mhroncok: Well, its still running, once done they will be gone 19:20:34 all ready 19:20:53 thanks, nirik 19:20:55 #topic Marketing 19:21:01 rc1 took a long time to make, but rc2 hopefully will be better 19:21:12 #undo 19:21:12 Removing item from minutes: 19:21:28 nirik: is there a reason for that hope or are you just an optimistic guy? 19:21:54 rc1 got stuck on specific problems with s390 19:21:55 twice the rc, half the time to compose 19:21:58 we lowered the weight on the s390x builders... 19:22:04 for rc2 we hopefully won't have those, and if we do, we can actively monitor a bit harder 19:22:13 so they should take fewer jobs at once, but hopefully finish them faster 19:22:14 Also, we rebooted the s390x machines 19:22:42 #info Infra changes to s390x builders should improve the compose time for RC2 19:23:15 anything else for infra? 19:24:48 nope 19:24:59 #topic Marketing 19:25:06 I'm here 19:25:08 x3mboy: go ahead 19:25:27 Well, basically the same of each release, we don't have all Talking Points 19:25:47 There is a discussion about if TPs will be still a thing for next releases 19:26:00 #help Talking Points contributions needed 19:26:01 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_30_talking_points 19:26:08 Discussion goes towards Amby's are really using TPs 19:26:16 But, nothing else from us 19:26:19 eom 19:26:55 As an Ambassador, I like the talking points. 19:27:01 x3mboy: want me to draft the Final announcement magazine article? 19:27:07 <3 19:27:18 bcotton: we have an initial draft I think 19:27:26 From a contributor 19:27:47 str8edgedave: please weigh in on the mailing list thread so we can see how you use them 19:27:57 ACK 19:27:57 Also, AFAIR, Final release announcement comes from mattdm (FPL) 19:28:12 x3mboy: i mean it runs under his name, but that doesn't mean he writes it :-) 19:28:17 But, yes, He normally ask us from ideas and a draft to it 19:28:30 x3mboy: can I send you some talking pints ideas? i don't have time to write them, just mantion them somewhere, so they can be adapted and turned into talkingpoints 19:28:41 omg pints. i need one 19:28:44 mhroncok: ML, please! 19:29:00 x3mboy: sure. ambassadors? marketing? 19:29:12 mhroncok: marketing 19:29:20 ack 19:31:07 x3mboy: can you verify that there's a draft of the magazine article? if there isn't one, i'll put something together tomorrow 19:31:36 I'm checking now 19:31:50 awesome, thanks 19:31:56 anything else for marketing before we move on? 19:31:59 Nope 19:32:19 #topic Mindshare 19:32:33 Hi 19:32:49 Mindshare has decided to delay the new Website until 2 weeks after the pot files are uploaded to Zanata 19:32:58 the new website can be seen at http://stg.getfedora.org 19:33:08 but the old website will be updated for Fedora 30's release 19:33:28 Since we wnat translators to have time to translate the new website since it is a lot of new strings 19:33:40 #info New website rollout is delayed until 2 weeks after pot files are uploaded to Zanata so translators have time to work on it 19:33:49 #link http://stg.getfedora.org 19:34:16 :O 19:34:30 the new website looks very nice 19:34:37 There isn't any mention of the spins! Or labs! 19:34:40 :O 19:34:41 relrod++ for making the website 19:34:43 nb: Karma for codeblock changed to 9 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:34:47 Well, I can say, it's really beatiful 19:35:08 ooh, that's a good point x3mboy 19:35:20 We are going to have that discussion again 19:35:22 I like it! Will it be ready for Red Hat Summit? 19:35:22 :'( 19:35:49 Most credit to Ryan and the design team, not me. 19:36:11 relrod++ 19:36:11 x3mboy: Karma for codeblock changed to 10 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:36:14 cverna++ 19:36:14 x3mboy: Karma for cverna changed to 27 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:36:26 Oooppps 19:36:27 relrod_cld, am curious, why no mention of spins and labs? 19:36:31 ryanlerch++ 19:36:31 nb: Karma for ryanlerch changed to 8 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:36:32 ryanlerch++ 19:36:35 x3mboy: Karma for ryanlerch changed to 9 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:36:44 cookies all around!!! 19:36:53 yummy 19:37:35 nb: we can/should at least link them in the footer. At first we weren't sure how they were going to fit into the new system. But for now those aren't changing so we should link to them 19:37:37 nb++ 19:37:38 jlanda: Karma for nb changed to 16 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:38:45 relrod_cld: Rather than a footer, can we add them after the emerging Fedora edition section? Just a thought and we can talk about this later 19:39:05 x3mboy and bcotton thank you so much for the announce draft work! 19:39:27 mattdm appears like a ninja 19:39:29 Yes let's chat when I'm not typing on a phone :) 19:39:46 relrod_cld: i'm going to make a ticket in fedora-websites for people comment on if that works for you? 19:39:56 Last time was a looooong and aweful discussion, I think this is not the place to have that again 19:39:59 +1 19:40:55 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/issue/950 19:41:15 ^^ x3mboy, mboddu, et al 19:41:27 Thanks 🙏 19:41:33 I saw it 19:41:46 happy to make work^W^W help, relrod_cld 19:41:53 anything else for mindshare? 19:42:22 EOF 19:42:45 #topic QA 19:43:12 QA is hard at work to close out the last few blockers in the next 21 hours 19:43:47 #info 1 blocker and several freeze exceptions are being resolved 19:43:53 x3mboy: I've just used the web interface to reply to https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/B6V4DORUVYC27CN7L6QWU3NBFKNBPJCI/ but I don't see my e-mail there :( 19:44:48 mhroncok: I think it takes time to publish, give it couple of min 19:45:09 x3mboy: and disappears again into the night, I'm afraid :) 19:45:17 mattdm: LOL 19:45:21 mattdm: see ya 19:45:30 #topic Release Engineering 19:45:36 mattdm: I want to cross some words with you, but I will drop an email about it 19:45:57 mboddu 19:45:58 We are not ready, well, we are still expecting a new RC 1.2 request from QA 19:46:07 And the outstanding blocker 19:46:23 #info RelEng is awaiting a new RC request from QA 19:47:38 anything else for releng? 19:48:38 #topic Server WG 19:48:44 sgallagh: > 19:48:48 ?, too 19:48:57 bcotton: Nope, thats all 19:49:09 ^ for your previous releng question 19:49:52 Server submitted out talking points. I think that’s about it 19:50:37 sgallagh++ 19:50:58 #topic Spins 19:51:14 apart from not being on the new website, anyone have spins-related readiness content? 19:51:36 * satellit soas works well 19:52:04 Xfce is as happy as f29's. ;) 19:53:02 satellit: good to hear. nirik: i notice your careful wordign 19:53:34 sgallagh++ 19:53:34 x3mboy: Karma for sgallagh changed to 18 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:53:35 * satellit also cinnamon and mate live tested 19:53:46 ha. well, there's been a few bugs around shipping 4.13 (the development stream), but IMHO none of them are that serious (even tho someone asked the sig to consider downgrading back to 4.12) 19:53:46 birik++ 19:53:49 nirik++ 19:53:49 x3mboy: Karma for kevin changed to 44 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:53:58 satellit++ 19:53:59 x3mboy: Karma for satellit changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:54:08 satellit++ 19:54:08 bcotton: Karma for satellit changed to 2 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 19:54:09 (does this include labs?) 19:54:32 mhroncok: yes! 19:54:49 nirik: the solution is modularity 19:54:50 * bcotton ducks 19:55:15 Python Classroom Lab seems to build in Koji, I ave no idea if there is anything I need to do to ensure it will be shipped 19:55:22 F29 was skipped. beta didn't build :( 19:55:51 mboddu: did classroom lab complete in rc1? 19:56:03 bcotton: Let me check 19:56:16 there were a few that did fail. 19:56:31 robotics, sci-kde, jam-kde 19:56:38 cinn (32bit only) 19:56:52 bcotton: Yes, we have it 19:57:12 mboddu: thanks! that's good news for mhroncok 19:57:24 nirik: any idea if those were transient or systemic failures? 19:57:52 mboddu: does that men it will be delivered? ot do I need to check somehting else as well? 19:58:00 mhroncok: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/30_RC-1.1/Labs/ seems to carry all the images and iso for python-classroom 19:58:12 bcotton: I haven't had time to look. 19:58:21 mhroncok: It will be delivered 19:58:26 nirik: okay, don't worry about it then 19:58:28 mboddu++ 19:58:29 I suspect it's broken deps/things that need fixing. 19:58:42 we can mail the spins list and ask maintainers to check their spins I suppose 19:59:26 mhroncok: If the image is built, it will be delivered 19:59:28 probably a little late for that if we're going to fire off another rc in the next couple of hours 19:59:55 bcotton: Probably, since they require at least a FE to push any changes 19:59:56 bcotton: likely unless the fixes are very quick 20:00:03 and yeah, would need a fe 20:01:53 ok. maybe for f31 we can be mroe proactive about pinging folks 20:02:17 it would definitely be nice to have a better way to notify people on that 20:02:27 or maybe we can just get to a self-service compose state :-D 20:02:54 fedpkg spinbuild --nowait 20:03:06 perhaps... 20:03:49 okay, anything else for spins? 20:05:13 #topic Translations 20:05:27 apart from preparing to translate the website, anything from the translators? 20:06:38 #topic Websites 20:06:47 we've already covered this, but anything else on the topic? 20:07:16 I have a question 20:07:28 Sorry, I was saving that for OF 20:07:38 Just a wrong middle-click 20:07:41 :-) 20:07:46 well good timing because 20:07:49 #Open Floor 20:07:53 #undo 20:07:53 Removing item from minutes: 20:08:05 double d'oh 20:08:06 anyway 20:08:09 #topic Open floor 20:08:12 LOL 20:08:12 x3mboy: go ahead 20:08:19 Ok, I have a question 20:08:39 I think some stuff are conflicting 20:08:46 Or maybe is just my imagination 20:08:58 And timing it's probably really important here 20:09:25 1. New logo: AFAIK is waiting for legal, but likely to be ready soon 20:10:12 2. New website: Maybe I was out for too much time, but there are some issues with it, also, is make with the current logo, not the new logo. IDK if there will be a discussion about the new branding 20:10:25 3. F30 release: it's like a week ahead 20:10:42 If we combine these 3 things into a whirl, the outcome is not pretty at all 20:10:50 bcotton: do you get me? 20:10:58 * nirik nods. 20:11:10 the website isn't done tho, so perhaps it could update for new logo? 20:11:37 x3mboy: i get you, but i don't think they'll whirl as much as you worry about 20:12:24 i haven't heard any updates on getting the legal parts taken care of, but i think it's safe to say that it won't start being used in the next few weeks 20:12:31 it being the new logo 20:12:36 I get another question: what is the actual outcome form this meeting? clearly, we 33 % ready? 20:12:59 or is it 29? 20:13:19 mhroncok: the current reading is: Teams are ready when the GO/NO-GO meeting say they are ok to go 20:13:42 bcotton: ok, so I'm not going to worry about it then 20:13:43 mhroncok: that's another point i want to get to next 20:14:08 But honestly, I shouldn't ship/work on the new site until the new brand is ready 20:14:13 x3mboy: in an ideal world, I'd like them to all land at the same time, well-coordinated, with messaging all set to go 20:14:17 It will mean a lot of rework 20:14:34 But, it's websites work xD 20:14:34 my understanding is that the change is mostly in the logo itself, not the overall branding 20:14:49 gotta head out! 20:14:53 Ok, move on. 20:14:54 eom 20:15:01 cool 20:15:16 okay, so as mhroncok points out...this meeting seems....to be of questionable value 20:15:19 bcotton: that sounds like a beatiful world 20:15:30 x3mboy: it is. you should see what color the sky is ;-) 20:16:07 i don't want to come to a conclusion today, but i'm going to start conversations about if we should continue having this meeting and if we do, how we can make it more useful 20:16:26 bcotton: the meeting is useful 20:16:28 so i'd encourage everyone to give that some thought 20:16:37 But tbh, only if all the teams are present 20:16:40 bcotton: I guess this should be part of GO/No-Go meeting when we are GO 20:17:12 Also, if we take care about teams to ship the next release, we need to have a space to speak out 20:17:31 mboddu: i'm actually thinking about putting this a week ahead of the first Go/no-go meeting so that if there are major red flags, they're address *before* we decide to be Go 20:17:33 If we are GO, then we can ask around and check if everything is ready from their end, if we are no-go, we dont care, we are still no-go 20:18:12 for example, that could be the point where we check in on failed spins 20:18:38 bcotton: are failed spins/labs blockers for the release? 20:18:50 bcotton: I see, that helps with Marketing, websites folks to get their stuff, but for QA, RelEng and probably Infra we dont know that by then 20:19:03 but i agree with x3mboy's point that if most teams don't show up, then it loses something 20:19:36 x3mboy: Only KDE spin is a blocker 20:19:41 mboddu: sure, but that's the point of the go/no-go meeting 20:20:18 it's good for us to coordinate between different groups, i'm just not convinced that the current state of this meeting is the best way to do that 20:20:39 bcotton: Agreed 20:20:46 i don't have a whole lot of concrete thoughts on it myself yet, just throwing it out there 20:21:04 I agree that this needs a change 20:21:45 bcotton: a good topic to mindshare, maybe? 20:21:56 s/to/for/g 20:22:01 x3mboy: mindshare is part of it, but it's not just a mindshare issue 20:22:02 Probably Readiness meeting a week before Go/No-Go and then final check meeting after Go/No-Go (as part of Go/No-Go itself but only if we are Go) 20:22:19 bcotton: no, but they should be the connectors of everything 20:23:23 x3mboy: council is probably the more appropriate body in this case, since this includes both mindshare's and fesco's areas of responsibility 20:23:38 bcotton: that makes sense 20:24:14 but once the release is out, i'll put together some thoughts and share them out with the community to get more thoughts 20:25:26 any other topics for this meeting? 20:25:57 None from me 20:27:05 nope 20:27:10 Also need to run 20:27:11 okay, thanks everyone! 20:27:14 See ya guys 20:28:09 #endmeeting