14:00:05 <bcotton> #startmeeting Council (2019-07-24)
14:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 24 14:00:05 2019 UTC.
14:00:05 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:05 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2019-07-24)'
14:00:07 <bcotton> #meetingname council
14:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
14:00:16 <bcotton> #chair jonatoni bexelbie contyk dgilmore dperpeet langdon mattdm sumantrom tyll bcotton pbrobinson asamalik
14:00:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: asamalik bcotton bexelbie contyk dgilmore dperpeet jonatoni langdon mattdm pbrobinson sumantrom tyll
14:00:18 <bcotton> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
14:00:30 * sumantro is here!
14:00:35 * mattdm is here, eating grapes
14:00:39 <mattdm> peeled grapes.
14:00:39 <bcotton> hooray for sumantro!
14:00:40 <asamalik> .hello2
14:00:41 <zodbot> asamalik: asamalik 'Adam Samalik' <asamalik@redhat.com>
14:00:45 <asamalik> happy Wednesday!
14:00:52 * dgilmore is partially here, is attending a class
14:01:09 <sumantro> hey mattdm bcotton :)
14:01:27 * asamalik is here, not peeling anything, wanting coffee
14:01:41 <bcotton> dgilmore: learn well
14:01:57 * sumantro is eating garlic bread
14:02:11 * bcotton is eating penaut M&Ms
14:02:53 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:02:54 * bexelbie pokes zodbot
14:02:54 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bexelbie@redhat.com>
14:02:59 <bexelbie> zodbot appears to be down - the #topic wasn't acknowledged afaik
14:03:04 <bexelbie> there it goes
14:03:09 <contyk> o/
14:03:11 <contyk> .hello psabata
14:03:11 <zodbot> contyk: psabata 'Petr Šabata' <psabata@redhat.com>
14:03:44 <langdon> meeting hasn't been started has it?
14:03:47 <langdon> like thats why zodbot no likey topic?
14:04:00 <bcotton> langdon: [10:00] <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 24 14:00:05 2019 UTC.
14:04:17 <langdon> umm.. weird.. i don't have that in my log..
14:04:36 <langdon> but i am missing any messages 9:57-10:02 eastern
14:04:56 <mattdm> maybe there's an IRC split?
14:05:06 <mattdm> like in the olden days? that uesd to happen all the time :)
14:05:06 <bexelbie> do we still have those?
14:05:08 * bcotton prefers banana splits
14:05:13 <bexelbie> the 90s called and wants their IRC split back
14:05:23 <bcotton> #topic Today's agenda
14:05:25 <bcotton> 1. #254—Close out current modularity objective and consider next phase
14:05:26 <bcotton> 2. #251—Fedora Project & Nitrokey
14:05:28 <bcotton> 3. #255—Require Council candidates to only run for Council
14:05:30 <mattdm> FWIW I see the messages
14:05:33 <langdon> i actually saw one not to to long ago.. .but usually there is a notice, right?
14:05:34 <mattdm> including the topic change
14:05:36 <bcotton> 4. #265—Determining oversight of Fedora Social Media accounts
14:05:37 <bcotton> 5. #262—"What is Fedora" needs improvement
14:05:38 <langdon> .hello2
14:05:39 <bcotton> 6. Open floor
14:05:40 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@redhat.com>
14:05:41 <bcotton> (lol formatting)
14:05:50 <bcotton> #topic Close out current modularity objective and consider next phase
14:05:51 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/254
14:05:59 <mattdm> langdon! hot-seat!
14:06:02 <bcotton> langdon: oh look, it's your topic :-)
14:06:06 <langdon> ha
14:06:08 <asamalik> #255—Require is my new favourite twitter hashtag
14:06:27 <langdon> i don't have much change.. i was fighting with pagure, issue still open but I seem to have a workaround as of yesterday..
14:06:42 <langdon> i should have the current doc up today
14:07:00 <langdon> then more info post flock (we have some workshops focused on it)
14:07:28 <mattdm> ok. should we plan to review and approve a final version of the doc _before_ flock or after?
14:07:54 <langdon> well.. it doesn't have hard deliverables until after flock.. just concepts
14:07:57 <contyk> which Flock?
14:07:59 <contyk> ;)
14:08:01 <bcotton> #info langdon expects to have a document posted today
14:08:05 <bcotton> contyk++
14:08:11 <asamalik> contyk++
14:08:12 <langdon> contyk: :P
14:09:11 <mattdm> Let's try to get the objective officialized before Flock, then.
14:09:40 <langdon> i don't think we have another meeting before flock :)
14:09:49 <bcotton> we probably don't
14:10:09 <contyk> depends
14:10:16 <contyk> the next one is during the flock week
14:10:21 <contyk> but it's still before
14:10:25 <langdon> ha
14:10:34 <mattdm> do we need a meeting?
14:10:34 <asamalik> contyk: the one on the travel day? :P
14:10:40 <contyk> exactly
14:10:43 <bcotton> we do have email and ticket votes
14:10:49 <asamalik> +1
14:10:57 <langdon> pfft.. where is the social in that!??!!
14:12:25 <mattdm> *crickets*
14:12:28 <bcotton> okay, so i don't think there's much else on this until langon posts his draft
14:12:35 <mattdm> agreed :)
14:12:39 <bexelbie> agreed
14:12:45 <bcotton> #topic Fedora Project & Nitrokey
14:12:46 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/251
14:12:48 <bcotton> #info tyll is to develop a proposal that includes 1. who will get the key and 2. how we will enforce it (including what infra work, if any, would be required)
14:13:01 <bcotton> unfortunately, tyll is not here, so there's nothing else to add here
14:13:12 <bcotton> #topic Require Council candidates to only run for Council
14:13:13 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/255
14:13:25 <bcotton> #info Decision is deadlocked with a -1 vote currently
14:13:50 <bcotton> this is low priority, but i'll see if the -1 will change their vote to 0
14:13:58 <mattdm> that'd be tyll_ ...
14:14:29 <bcotton> oh, there is a tyll_ -like person in the room. tyll_, are you online?
14:14:30 <mattdm> I'll take it up in the ticket
14:14:43 <bcotton> #action mattdm to follow up on -1 vote in ticket 255
14:15:33 <bcotton> #topic Determining oversight of Fedora Social Media accounts
14:15:34 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/265
14:15:47 <bcotton> only 2 votes in the ticket so far. please go vote in the ticket
14:16:00 <bcotton> raise your hand now if this is in any way objectionable or controversial
14:17:11 <bcotton> that's a no
14:17:15 <bcotton> #topic “What is Fedora” needs improvement
14:17:17 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/262
14:17:33 <mattdm> THere are now three +1 votes. and no -1s. so I think we can consider the previous ticket approved.
14:17:48 <mattdm> On this one, I have lots of thoughts but haven't collected them in writing
14:17:52 <bcotton> mattdm: ack
14:18:36 <mattdm> Specifcally, I think some of this may be failure to keep up on messaging from the council. Whiicccch is probably on me because I stopped the comblog posts you had so helpfully helped me draft
14:18:49 <mattdm> I agree that the intro part could use improvement
14:18:53 <asamalik> I have some thoughts regarding some aspects of what Fedora is and I've basically expressed them in the vision statement of the Minimization objective
14:19:25 <mattdm> But, we very specifically updated the mission statement to focus on making an OS. That's because, no matter what we *say* the mission is, that's... what we do.
14:19:38 <mattdm> The first Fedora mission was very much just "we make an OS"
14:19:48 <mattdm> That was too narrow. It was literally already done.
14:20:26 <mattdm> The second Fedora mission statement went the other way -- it was ambitious and sweeping
14:20:27 <bcotton> agreed. and we need to keep our scope focused on that. there's so much we can do in the realm of "further the Free/Open Source software philosophy" that it basically means everything is within our scope
14:20:35 <mattdm> and didn't metion making an OS at all
14:20:46 <contyk> we make people happy
14:20:53 <langdon> contyk: that is just you
14:21:23 <mattdm> And when we sat down to work on strategy, based on that, it became pretty clear that in this decade, starting from scratch, making the actual OS would be, like number 1000 on the list
14:22:02 <mattdm> so we went back with the premise that our mission *does* need that focus, but that we also need something a little more ambitious than the first time
14:22:10 <mattdm> I'm pretty happy with what we came up with
14:22:14 <mattdm> Now, all that said...
14:22:23 <mattdm> perhaps what we need is a vision statement
14:22:31 <mattdm> There used to be one, and we dropped it.
14:22:55 <contyk> what was it?
14:22:59 <langdon> mattdm: are you recapping? or suggesting we should change what we did at the council fad x-time ago?
14:23:18 <mattdm> That vision statement can be a place to explain some of that "why", and what we want Fedora to be, and what we want Fedora's interaction and impact on the world to be
14:23:25 <mattdm> langdon: was recapping, now suggesting a next step
14:24:18 <mattdm> contyk: it was:
14:24:21 <mattdm> The Fedora Project creates a world where
14:24:23 <mattdm> * free culture is welcoming and widespread,
14:24:25 <mattdm> * collaboration is commonplace, and
14:24:27 <mattdm> * people control their content and devices.}}</div>
14:24:31 * asamalik personally really likes vision statements because that kind of explains what is our focus and why
14:24:57 <mattdm> Maybe this is something we can work on at Flock a bit?
14:25:02 <langdon> i thought we had written a new vision statement
14:25:14 <contyk> should be </li></ul>
14:25:15 <langdon> with the llama farmers making OSs and all that
14:25:21 <asamalik> mattdm: I think having it more specific than that would help with guiding
14:25:29 <asamalik> +1 for looking at it at Flock!
14:25:38 <mattdm> langdon: we have a new mission, and then we also have a high level strategic plan, but no stated vision
14:25:48 <mattdm> contyk: heh. I missed
14:25:57 <mattdm> <div style="font-size: 125%;">{{message at the beginning. feel better?
14:25:59 <jwf> I wonder where the Foundations fits into all of this?
14:26:05 <contyk> thank you
14:26:37 <mattdm> jwf: they're still fundamental. they're statements of core project values
14:27:05 <mattdm> Does what I'm saying make sense to people?
14:27:11 <bcotton> makes sense to me
14:27:11 <mattdm> I'll take some time to write it in the ticket
14:27:17 <jwf> It makes sense to me
14:27:30 <langdon> ok.. well.. i think we should definitely discuss.. we had "reasons" for why no vision statement.. i am not sure those have changed... i would rather not get in to all that unless we want to dedicate 30-60m on it
14:27:38 <bcotton> mattdm: do we have a council meeting scheduled or in the works for flock?
14:27:49 <mattdm> bcotton: we do not. but perhaps we should!
14:28:12 <bexelbie> please make it a time I can dial in for :)
14:28:33 <contyk> we should
14:29:12 <mattdm> langdon: my recollection was: our problem was the statement was too vague so we were focused on focusing the mission
14:29:42 <bexelbie> Why would we rewrite this section inline with the new mission?
14:29:46 <langdon> mattdm: i thought it was more than that.. like that any vision would probably be to vague and that the mission was enough
14:29:50 <bexelbie> we seem to have given ourselves focus
14:30:11 <mattdm> langdon: yes, but maybe it's time to steer back the other way a little bit
14:30:13 <langdon> yeah... a focus on not having a vision statement ;)
14:30:20 <mattdm> langdon: lol
14:30:33 <langdon> i could be convinced.. but let's do it in voice or my fingers will bleed
14:30:50 <mattdm> I'll open a ticket to collect who will be at flock and when
14:30:54 <bcotton> #action mattdm to add some ideas ot the ticket
14:31:10 <mattdm> and I *do* think we need another Council hackfest later this year, and this could be one element of this
14:31:15 <bcotton> #action mattdm to open a ticket for flock arrival/departure times
14:31:35 <bexelbie> agreed on a council hack if we have an agenda -- and after about a year I bet we do
14:33:06 <mattdm> maybe november again?
14:33:22 <langdon> in the *south*!?!?!?!?!
14:33:26 <mattdm> somewhere really cold in november. sweden
14:33:31 <mattdm> finland.
14:33:37 <bexelbie> brno is nice in winter ... #just saying
14:33:41 <mattdm> poland, on the sea
14:33:47 <bexelbie> also nice in winter
14:33:48 <langdon> bexelbie: except for the plague
14:33:53 <bexelbie> and this rabbit hole is not helpful
14:34:03 <bexelbie> the plague is only released in late Jan for DevConf.cz
14:34:03 <mattdm> Sorry. :)
14:34:23 <langdon> bexelbie good to know.. i didn't realize it was so carefully planned
14:34:37 <bexelbie> with very Kafka-like precision
14:34:55 <mattdm> But in seriousness: september is hard for me due to start of school, I already have some stuff planned for october, and so november sounds good to me
14:34:58 <bexelbie> anything else on this tiket?
14:35:03 <bexelbie> ticket
14:35:13 <mattdm> bcotton: when are the next elections?
14:35:16 <bexelbie> looks like the AI is mattdm writing on it -and us meeting about possible vision
14:35:27 <bexelbie> early December worked well it seemed
14:35:28 <bcotton> mattdm: next elections are in dec 2019
14:35:36 <mattdm> yeah I somehow gave myself work here.
14:35:47 <bexelbie> in that case maybe october/novemeber ...
14:36:09 <bcotton> mattdm: actually, late november
14:36:24 <mattdm> the problem with october is that my wife is taking a long trip with some of her friends and I will be single parenting.
14:36:28 <bcotton> how about this, i'll take an action to start a thread on council-discuss about planning a council f2f
14:36:28 <bexelbie> then back to december
14:36:32 <mattdm> this means I can't go anywhere :)
14:36:36 <bexelbie> lets not plan this in this meeting pleaes
14:36:41 <bexelbie> this is a great ticket/email thread
14:36:45 <mattdm> bexelbie: ok fine :)
14:36:47 <langdon> mattdm: your kids are pretty old..
14:36:50 <mattdm> bcotton++
14:36:54 <mattdm> langdon: you want 'em?
14:37:05 <bcotton> #action bcotton to start a thread on council-discuss about planning a council f2f in late CY2019
14:37:10 <langdon> mattdm: you would have to tkae mine :)
14:37:13 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
14:37:24 <bcotton> so the next council meeting is the day before flock starts
14:37:45 <mattdm> I assume peope will mostly be traveling
14:38:00 <bexelbie> o/ for a topic
14:38:15 <bcotton> bexelbie: ack. standby
14:38:18 <bexelbie> I think that day is not going to work - the bus from Brno should arrive, ideally in the middle of our meeting
14:38:25 <mattdm> o/ I also have a brief update on flock scheduling
14:38:25 <bcotton> objections to canceling the next meeting?
14:38:34 <bcotton> mattdm: ack. standby
14:38:49 <bexelbie> I'd like to see us shift it to the week after, if we don't lose too many people to devconf.us
14:39:02 <bexelbie> let's get momentum from Flock
14:39:09 <mattdm> bexelbie: sounds good
14:39:45 <bcotton> proposed #agreed the 7 August council meeting will be held on 14 August (and we will resume the regular cadence on 21 August)
14:39:47 <langdon> i will be unlikely to be available for this time aug 14 .. there is a centos dojo on that day before devconf.. and i will be doing setup
14:39:57 <asamalik> bcotton: +!
14:39:59 <asamalik> +!
14:40:02 <asamalik> eh!
14:40:03 <asamalik> +1
14:40:03 <langdon> and i am speaking at the dojo
14:40:14 <mattdm> +1
14:40:17 <contyk> +1
14:40:31 <langdon> +0
14:40:32 <bexelbie> +1
14:40:40 <bexelbie> we will have langdons draft by then right :P
14:40:41 <sumantro> +1
14:40:50 <langdon> bexelbie: pfft
14:40:55 <bcotton> #agreed the 7 August council meeting will be held on 14 August (and we will resume the regular cadence on 21 August)
14:40:59 <langdon> contyk can represent it
14:41:04 <langdon> and i *may* make it
14:41:10 <bcotton> #action bcotton to update fedocal
14:41:29 <bcotton> bexelbie: the floor is yours
14:41:50 <bexelbie> Did hte status reports get posted?
14:41:58 <bexelbie> not pushing, just curious
14:42:20 * langdon needs to add that to his calendar
14:42:25 * asamalik os back from vacation and will finally write the first status report this week!
14:42:35 <bcotton> bexelbie: not yet
14:42:48 <bexelbie> cool - again, not shaming, just asking
14:42:51 <bcotton> #action bcotton to add council status reports to docs publishing
14:42:54 <bexelbie> as I think those will be of interest to the community
14:43:11 <asamalik> bcotton: we can make it publishing but not link it from anywhere... so we have a preview and then can link it and announce it when we're ready
14:43:39 <asamalik> I mean, it would be accessible via a URL, not by a link from the docs.fp.o
14:43:55 <bcotton> asamalik: that's a good idea. i'll do that this week and then we can start telling people about it when i do the first commblog post in early aug
14:44:18 <asamalik> bcotton: let me know if you need any help!
14:44:25 <bcotton> asamalik: thanks!
14:44:27 <bcotton> asamalik++
14:44:32 <bcotton> anything else, bexelbie?
14:44:35 <bexelbie> nope
14:44:48 <bexelbie> other than this
14:44:52 <bexelbie> asamalik++
14:44:53 <bcotton> #topic Flock scheduling update
14:44:57 <bcotton> mattdm: all you
14:45:00 <bexelbie> for the amazing work you keep doing on docs.fp.o
14:45:29 <langdon> asamalik++
14:45:34 <mattdm> This is quick. I'm working on putting all of the accepted sessions into a schedule
14:45:43 <mattdm> And then once that is done I will publish it as a draft
14:45:59 <asamalik> \o/
14:46:04 <mattdm> Then we are going to ask people to actually mark which talks they'd like to attend
14:46:16 <mattdm> and then I will make sure that the big talks get the big room and etc
14:46:23 <langdon> what are you using?
14:46:24 <langdon> sched?
14:46:27 <mattdm> yep
14:46:41 <langdon> let me know if you need help.. or scripts.. i have a bunch
14:46:56 <asamalik> mattdm: if someone had a suggestion about a two sessions that would be in a specific order, what would be the best way to express that?
14:47:00 <langdon> starting to have a python lib for sessions and speakers
14:47:08 <asamalik> *about two or three sessions
14:48:18 * asamalik can't type today... hopefully it's parsable
14:48:54 <mattdm> asamalik: in the ticket for the session
14:48:59 <mattdm> or emailing me
14:49:08 <mattdm> or reminding me later when i forget and mess it up
14:49:15 <mattdm> any of those
14:49:23 <asamalik> ok, I'll email you :)
14:49:34 <langdon> mattdm: those are the *exact* same (particularly the last one) rules for changes to devconf.us
14:51:06 <mattdm> heh
14:51:47 <bcotton> anything else on this topic?
14:52:50 <mattdm> nope
14:53:40 <bcotton> any other topics before we close the meeting?
14:54:25 <mattdm> looks like not :)
14:54:30 <mattdm> thanks bcotton for running!
14:54:44 <bcotton> okay, we'll see (most of) you in budapest!
14:54:48 <bcotton> #endmeeting