16:00:07 <geppetto> #startmeeting fpc
16:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 16:00:07 2019 UTC.
16:00:07 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:00:07 <zodbot> The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:07 <geppetto> #meetingname fpc
16:00:07 <geppetto> #topic Roll Call
16:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:13 <mhroncok> hey
16:00:18 <geppetto> #chair mhroncok
16:00:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mhroncok
16:00:19 <geppetto> hey
16:00:22 <decathorpe> hello o/
16:01:59 <geppetto> #chair decathorpe
16:01:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: decathorpe geppetto mhroncok
16:04:32 <tibbs> Hey, folks
16:04:39 <geppetto> #chair tibbs
16:04:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: decathorpe geppetto mhroncok tibbs
16:04:41 <geppetto> hey
16:04:56 <tibbs> I'm sort of here on the sly.  Trying to pretend to pay attention to this presentation.
16:05:18 <geppetto> ok
16:05:40 <geppetto> We only have 4 atm. … so can maybe just go back to your presentation soon :)
16:06:10 <tibbs> Hopefully we'll get a fifth, then.  I would prefer not to pay attention to that.
16:06:22 <geppetto> ha
16:07:00 * limburgher here
16:07:22 <geppetto> #chair limburgher
16:07:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: decathorpe geppetto limburgher mhroncok tibbs
16:07:28 <geppetto> Woo, we made it :)
16:07:48 <limburgher> Look how far we've come, my baby. . .
16:08:10 <geppetto> #topic Schedule
16:08:13 <geppetto> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/GABB3NIS6R76YSAYV5ZCSL5LQM2Z6HQ7/
16:08:21 <geppetto> #topic #914 Automatic R runtime dependencies
16:08:25 <geppetto> .fpc 914
16:08:26 <zodbot> geppetto: Issue #914: F31 System-wide Change: Automatic R runtime dependencies - packaging-committee - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/914
16:11:02 <geppetto> I'm pretty sure we don't want people doing weak requires on things that don't exist … I don't think there's a legal problem, but still
16:11:40 <limburgher> No, but if they're requiring things we don't carry, that's a bug, strong or weak.
16:11:49 <decathorpe> isn't Suggests still a noop by default?
16:11:53 <mhroncok> it is
16:11:58 <tibbs> There is a philosophical question here, I think,
16:12:03 <mhroncok> so haveing the suggests here brings no benefit imho
16:12:15 <tibbs> And I think fundamentally it's a question for FESCo and the legal folks.
16:12:37 <mhroncok> instead of arguing whther suggesting nonesisitng packages is OK (some think it is, some that it isn't), we shloud just not do it and call it a day
16:12:53 <decathorpe> I mean, I have no experience with R packaging at all. but if it's simple to remove unpackaged stuff from metadata during package builds, I think it would be reasonable to do that
16:12:59 <tibbs> The legal angle is related to whether a package can suggest ffmpeg or something like that.
16:13:32 <limburgher> I'd say the tech angle precludes the legal angle because of the legal angle. Circles.
16:13:43 <geppetto> tibbs: yeh, but the user still needs to manually enable the ffmpeg repos. …
16:13:47 <limburgher> That may not have made any sense. :)
16:13:48 <tibbs> The issue is that the nice automation for generating these dependencies might have false positives.
16:14:02 <geppetto> I'm fine with deferring to fesco
16:14:24 <tibbs> geppetto: It's down in the question of contributory infringement, which is why the legal folks need to tell us what to do.
16:14:34 * geppetto nods
16:14:55 <tibbs> The question of whether we care about complete closure of the repository, even at the level of weak dependencies.
16:15:19 <tibbs> That's what I'd leave to fesco.
16:15:37 <mhroncok> ok
16:15:39 <tibbs> Bottom line is that whatever automation is in place, it needs a way to filter the generated dependencies.
16:15:56 <tibbs> Of course, we do already have that in plave using the general PRM mechanis,
16:16:00 <tibbs> mechanism.
16:16:01 <mhroncok> so fesco needs to decide whether recommedns and suggests need to be resolvable for technical reasons
16:16:05 <mhroncok> and legal fro legal reasons
16:16:33 <tibbs> Pretty much.
16:16:43 <mhroncok> however, I still think that automatically generated suggests are useless
16:16:51 <mhroncok> soe my recommendation here would be: don't bother
16:17:17 <tibbs> RIght now we have nothing which checks that the repository is closed under any type of depedency at all.
16:17:30 <tibbs> But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have that.
16:17:53 <decathorpe> what about repoclosure?
16:18:00 <tibbs> The automated geting stuff should at least be cheking that the packages being pushed are installable.
16:18:28 <tibbs> I know that repoclosure had some work done recently but it still isn't being done.
16:18:48 <tibbs> And it doesn't understand Boolean dependencies which means that it can still miss things.
16:18:59 <decathorpe> ugh
16:19:02 <decathorpe> :(
16:19:03 <tibbs> Though I do think even a 50% solution is much better than nothing.
16:19:42 <tibbs> I could be  out of date here but I certainly haven't seen any reports about it.
16:20:56 <geppetto> #action FESCO need to rule on the technical problem of allowing packages to suggest things which don't exist.
16:21:19 <geppetto> #action Legal needs to rule on the legal problems of allowing packages to suggest things which don't exist (Eg. ffmpeg possibility).
16:21:32 <geppetto> Anything else to say?
16:22:39 <tibbs> Don't think so.
16:23:17 <tibbs> Note that this is only an issue if the exoectation is that people won't try to filter these things from their packages.
16:23:45 <geppetto> #topic #907 Which %__foo macros for executables are acceptable?
16:23:45 <tibbs> I think in the case of R the problem is that a large number of the generated weak deps won't exist.
16:23:54 <geppetto> .fpc 907
16:23:55 <zodbot> geppetto: Issue #907: Which %__foo macros for executables are acceptable? - packaging-committee - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/907
16:24:46 <decathorpe> the PR for python looks reasonable
16:24:49 <tibbs> So for this, Panu basically gave us the answer we're lookng for so the rest is mostrly cleanup and making sure we have non-underscored macros for everything that needs to be macroized.
16:25:19 <geppetto> yeh, I think the PR is fine
16:25:33 <tibbs> I need to log out briefly.  I wont lose any messages because of znc but I;ll be out for a couple of minutes.
16:26:19 <limburgher> I have to leave in 4 minutes and can't be back for an hour. :(
16:26:28 <geppetto> ok
16:28:11 <tibbs> Back.
16:29:04 <mhroncok> I sent a comment to the pyhon PR but it wa snot sent, so I've just resnt it now
16:30:16 <tibbs> I sent a comment and I think it made it there.
16:31:52 <geppetto> ok
16:32:03 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
16:32:22 <geppetto> Given we only have 4 now, anything we want to talk about?
16:32:50 <mhroncok> we have a lot of stalled PRs
16:32:58 <mhroncok> shall we start taggign them with meeting?
16:33:49 <decathorpe> it would help us to clear out some old cruft
16:34:11 <geppetto> yeh, if there's a good way to collect them I can add them to the schedule
16:34:53 <mhroncok> geppetto: I belive that it would add one more step: collecting tagged issues + tagged prs, but I'm not sure
16:38:04 <mhroncok> let's end?
16:39:38 <decathorpe> will there be a meeting next week? I guess some of us will be at flock
16:39:58 <geppetto> yeh, I'll be there … so I'd guess no
16:40:26 <geppetto> #endmeeting