15:00:40 <asamalik> #startmeeting Minimization Team Meeting
15:00:40 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:00:40 2019 UTC.
15:00:40 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:40 <zodbot> The chair is asamalik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:40 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'minimization_team_meeting'
15:00:40 <asamalik> #meetingname minimization
15:00:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'minimization'
15:00:40 <asamalik> #chair asamalik pbrobinson zbyszek feborges Son_Goku lorbus salimma tdawson ignatenkobrain jaruga
15:00:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: Son_Goku asamalik feborges ignatenkobrain jaruga lorbus pbrobinson salimma tdawson zbyszek
15:00:40 <asamalik> #topic Roll call
15:00:59 <asamalik> .hello2
15:01:00 <zodbot> asamalik: asamalik 'Adam Samalik' <asamalik@redhat.com>
15:01:04 <Guest34216> .hello2
15:01:05 <zodbot> Guest34216: Sorry, but you don't exist
15:01:06 <jaruga> .hello2
15:01:09 <zodbot> jaruga: jaruga 'Jun Aruga' <jaruga@redhat.com>
15:01:09 <zbyszek> .hello2
15:01:11 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
15:01:14 <tdawson> .hello2
15:01:17 <zodbot> tdawson: tdawson 'None' <tdawson@redhat.com>
15:01:38 <tdawson> I exist ... just not very well. :)
15:01:57 <cverna> .hello cverna
15:01:58 <zodbot> cverna: cverna 'Clement Verna' <clems.verna@gmail.com>
15:02:46 <asamalik> hi everyone!
15:03:20 * cverna waives at the crowd
15:03:42 <zbyszek> the crows waves back
15:05:02 <asamalik> #topic === Admin ===
15:05:02 <asamalik> Anything to discuss about organisational stuff?
15:05:48 <asamalik> I have a status page that shows the status and all the reports I send to devel: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/minimization/status/
15:06:00 <asamalik> it's still missing the one I sent today, I need to add it
15:06:01 <Guest34216> neat!
15:08:10 <cverna> nice
15:08:21 <asamalik> added!
15:08:41 <asamalik> but that's all I have about this topic
15:09:24 <asamalik> #topic === Focus & what's next? ===
15:09:24 <asamalik> What are we working on that is worth mentioning? Plans for the next week? month? release?
15:10:49 <asamalik> so I've extended the dependency tool and renamed it to 'rpm-showme' to make it more discoverable: https://pagure.io/minimization/rpm-showme
15:11:06 <cverna> dnf's systemd dependency was dropped, that made the container base image compose crash because anaconda expect to set the systemd target during the installation.
15:11:22 <cverna> I have reported the bug and it was fixed but the anaconda team
15:11:43 <asamalik> cool!
15:12:20 <asamalik> yeah we should break the systemd dependency from things that we expect to be running in containers
15:12:23 <tdawson> I did a container before and after that dnf change.  It droped about 30M from the image.
15:12:59 <cverna> I still want to have a fedora-sys image that contains systemd but that's another problem :)
15:14:22 <asamalik> oh yeah, just removing the dependency, so we can have both :)
15:14:32 <zbyszek> Did anyone look into dropping unbound from the basic images? I don't think it needs to be there.
15:15:55 <cverna> zbyszek: it was removed when we removed the weak dependencies
15:16:02 <zbyszek> Oh, great.
15:16:15 <asamalik> I haven't.. I'd say that whatever is not listed in the kickstart that builds the images could be potentially dropped, right?
15:16:21 <cverna> zbyszek: this is available from f31 tho not in the f30 image
15:16:25 <asamalik> because that list basically defines what we want to have there
15:16:54 <cverna> asamalik: we don't put dependencies in the kickstart
15:17:51 <cverna> we could maintain something like that --> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/wikistat/blob/master/f/repos-fedora-atomic
15:18:07 <cverna> and use it to control the list of packages we have in the image
15:18:30 <asamalik> cverna: right, that's what I mean
15:19:40 <asamalik> basically what's listed in the kickstart is what we care about, and all the dependencies that are not listed are needed to make it all function, but if we cut them out without breaking stuff we're good
15:19:47 <zbyszek> asamalik: https://asamalik.fedorapeople.org/container-randomness/report.html should grow a F32 branch
15:19:55 <asamalik> or do we expect certain dependencies to be there even when we don't list them?
15:20:28 <asamalik> zbyszek: yes, that's what I'm basically working on right now
15:20:44 <zbyszek> asamalik: generally everything should be listed unless we know it's an unremovable dependency
15:20:45 <cverna> asamalik: I don't think so and if we find some we should make them explicit in the kickstart
15:21:07 <asamalik> just that was manually generated, but I want to automate it and be able to specify what we want to have there with more flexibility
15:21:22 <zbyszek> E.g. I don't think we need to list libstdc++-devel if we have cpp-c++ and such.
15:21:25 <asamalik> cverna: cool
15:22:58 <asamalik> zbyszek: what I mean is the intention... example: I list "dnf" there because I need to be able to install packages, but not listing "systemd" because I don't need it there... it was pulled in as a dependency, but it wasn't listed, so it was clear we don't want it there and we could cut it
15:23:18 <zbyszek> Right.
15:23:24 <cverna> that is what we have with the latest fedora:31 image that I pushed earlier this week --> https://paste.centos.org/view/bcfd2e3c
15:23:47 <zbyszek> device-mapper - why is that pulled in?
15:24:20 <cverna> good question :)
15:24:24 <asamalik> and that relates to what I'm working on right now — I call it Feedback Pipeline just to have a name for it...
15:24:59 <asamalik> ... it will monitor "installations" that we give to it. For example: the fedora base image package list ...
15:25:30 <zbyszek> asamalik: you also had those graphs with deps, are they still available somewhere?
15:25:34 <asamalik> ... based on that it will show what we want there, and what dependencies are pulled in. It will report the size, etc. ...
15:25:47 <asamalik> zbyszek: yeah the graphs will be a part of that
15:25:49 <tdawson> zbyszek: systemd pulls in device-manager
15:26:09 <asamalik> zbyszek: the tool is here: https://pagure.io/minimization/rpm-showme
15:26:25 <asamalik> ... I'll generate that daily ...
15:26:38 <zbyszek> tdawson: hmm, not directly though?
15:27:05 <asamalik> ... I'll also output a list of packages in a list (just names) and push it to pagure or github and we'll be able to use their Web UI to see diffs between any given snapshots — both for packages and sizes
15:27:27 <asamalik> ... and I want it to also actively report big changes
15:27:34 <cverna> asamalik: if you can include me in the Feedback Pipeline discussion, I might be able to help with identifying services we already run
15:27:45 <asamalik> cverna: cool!
15:27:59 <asamalik> I thought I just prototype it today and then we can discuss
15:28:01 <asamalik> it shouldn't be hard
15:28:24 <zbyszek> Oh, I see systemd→cryptsetup-libs→device-mapper-libs→device-mapper
15:28:30 <asamalik> cverna: but thanks for offering help, I'll definitely reach out / mention you in a discussion
15:28:31 <zbyszek> I'll try to untangle this.
15:28:38 <asamalik> I could actually just open a ticket in the tracker for it!
15:29:20 <asamalik> but it'll be basically a little smarter rawhide report that will focus on specific installations, not the whole distro
15:30:33 <cverna> asamalik: sound cool
15:31:51 * cverna needs to go :-), I ll read the rest of the meeting log
15:31:59 <asamalik> cverna: ok, thanks for coming!
15:32:00 <cverna> \o
15:32:31 <tdawson> zbyszek: I generated a report of an image with just dnf, both before, and after, it dropped the systemd requirements - https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/min/dnf-report.html
15:32:45 <tdawson> As you can see, device-mapper was dropped, when systemd was.
15:32:59 <zbyszek> Yep, it's pulled in by device-mapper-libs.
15:33:00 <tdawson> I really like asamalik's latest version of rpm-showme
15:33:10 <asamalik> \o/ glad it's useful!
15:33:18 <zbyszek> I'll just created an issue to track this: https://pagure.io/minimization/issue/4.
15:33:27 <asamalik> zbyszek: thanks!
15:36:03 <asamalik> all right, anything else here?
15:36:29 <zbyszek> I'd say that those latest reports look much better: no obvious low-hanging fruit.
15:38:33 <asamalik> excellent!
15:38:43 <asamalik> #topic === Open Floor ===
15:38:43 <asamalik> Anything else?
15:41:13 <asamalik> ok, I think that's all for today, then :)
15:41:16 <asamalik> thanks all for coming!
15:41:36 <asamalik> #endmeeting