13:00:09 <bcotton> #startmeeting FPgM office hours
13:00:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 18 13:00:09 2019 UTC.
13:00:09 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:00:09 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpgm_office_hours'
13:00:10 <bcotton> #info This is an open floor meeting to discuss anything program management related (elections, changes, sche
13:00:17 <bcotton> #topic Announcements
13:00:26 <bcotton> #info Fedora 31 beta was released yesterday
13:00:28 <bcotton> #info Red Hat Summit CfP is open through 22 October
13:00:40 <bcotton> #link https://www.redhat.com/en/summit/speakers/submit-a-session
13:00:41 <bcotton> #help Let me know what projects we can highlight for Hacktoberfest: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/TGCKY25ERSG7ZKP2U6MZYKADQV4JEEMP/
13:00:49 <bcotton> #help Tomorrow is GNOME 3.34 test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9621/?from_date=2019-09-18
13:00:51 <bcotton> #help Monday is Upgrade test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9628/?from_date=2019-09-23
13:00:52 <bcotton> #help Friday 27 September is Modularity test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9627/?from_date=2019-09-27
13:00:59 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
13:03:39 <kalev> bcotton: GNOME 3.34 test day is today, not tomorrow
13:03:58 <bcotton> kalev: oops, let me fix that
13:04:01 <bcotton> #undo
13:04:01 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f93a253f190>
13:04:02 <bcotton> #undo
13:04:06 <bcotton> #undo
13:04:11 <bcotton> #undo
13:04:27 <bcotton> #help *Today* is GNOME 3.34 test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9621/?from_date=2019-09-18
13:04:36 <bcotton> #help Monday is Upgrade test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9628/?from_date=2019-09-23
13:04:40 <bcotton> #help Friday 27 September is Modularity test day — https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9627/?from_date=2019-09-27
13:04:45 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
13:04:48 <bcotton> kalev++
13:04:48 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for kalev changed to 4 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:33:32 <alciregi> hello bcotton
13:33:44 <bcotton> hello, alciregi
13:33:49 * bcotton pours a cup of virtual coffee
13:33:58 <bcotton> what brings you here today?
13:35:16 <alciregi> https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/594
13:35:54 <alciregi> As I said, my main goal was to involve newcomers in testing things
13:36:12 <bcotton> alciregi: i think that's a great goal
13:37:02 <bcotton> i just don't know if that's the right way to acheive it (but i'm also entirely open to the idea that i'm wrong)
13:37:21 <bcotton> do we have a good sense of *why* we're not getting more newcomer involvement?
13:37:33 <alciregi> no
13:37:56 <alciregi> btw as I can see there are various introduction messages in the mailing list
13:38:01 <alciregi> that is good
13:38:26 <bcotton> yes it is
13:38:37 <bcotton> hopefully we can hold on to them :-)
13:39:11 <alciregi> I don't know how many, let's say one newcomer each two weeks, but I don't counted them :-)
13:39:17 <alciregi> "hey! I would like to test, I would like to help"
13:40:14 <alciregi> then someone briefly explains what to do, the newcomer is routed to various documents
13:40:30 <alciregi> then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:40:34 <bcotton> yeah
13:40:44 <bcotton> that's a problem we have across pretty much every group in fedora
13:40:57 <alciregi> I would like to see if they do some test in bodhi or somewhere else
13:41:07 <alciregi> yeah
13:41:29 <bcotton> i guess checking their badges account after a week or two could be one way
13:42:04 <bcotton> given unlimited resources, one approach could be to give each new person a mentor that would help them get started and check in to see if they're making contributions
13:42:05 <alciregi> ys
13:42:16 <alciregi> yes
13:42:26 <bcotton> but idk if any team has that much capacity (even though that's a good way to _grow_ capacity over time)
13:42:30 <alciregi> uh mentoring is something difficult
13:42:44 <alciregi> to much efforts
13:43:17 <bcotton> yeah, unfortunately :-(
13:43:38 <alciregi> but the picture is a bit different... the silence
13:44:34 <alciregi> I don't think that someone join the team, then it start to work silently, he already knows what to do, how to do it, etc.
13:45:05 <alciregi> so the no questions are due the fact that they already know what to do
13:45:26 <alciregi> then, sorry if I'm a bit verbose,
13:46:09 <alciregi> then what I thought was: maybe the are afraid asking things?
13:46:19 <alciregi> *they
13:47:33 <bcotton> i bet that explains a lot of it
13:47:40 <alciregi> so people should be invited, encouraged to ask
13:47:45 <bcotton> "wow, there's so much to know and i don't know any of it and it's hard to learn, so i'll just move on"
13:49:26 <alciregi> so people should be invited, encouraged to ask
13:49:34 <alciregi> ops sorry
13:51:46 <alciregi> moving the entire mailing list to discouse doesn't solve the issue (and I'm not sure that qa team will agree in any case)
13:51:50 <bcotton> it doesn't
13:52:13 <alciregi> I've seen today on discussion.f.o. a new category
13:52:27 <alciregi> technical-contributors
13:52:30 <bcotton> but i don't think an entirely separate discussion mechanism does either
13:52:42 <bcotton> especially since we don't actually know what the problem is
13:52:55 <alciregi> "but i don't think an entirely separate discussion mechanism does either" indeed you are right
13:53:29 <bcotton> if you're willing to do it, it might be interesting to go through the introductions on the mailing list for the last couple of months and check in with people to see what contributions they've made and what has worked and not worked for them
13:54:32 <bcotton> i don't want to stop you from making progress, but i'd also hate to see you and others spend effort on something that doesn't solve the problem
13:55:18 <alciregi> ye ye, and you are right
13:56:48 <alciregi> btw I can check the mailing list and so on and check if people is still active, definitely, in order to have an better idea of the
13:56:58 <bcotton> that would be great
13:57:18 <bcotton> alciregi++
13:57:18 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for alciregi changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:58:32 <alciregi> well, I don't want to take up too much of your time
13:58:35 <alciregi> Thanks for the chat
13:58:49 <alciregi> bcotton++
13:58:49 <zodbot> alciregi: Karma for bcotton changed to 19 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:59:33 <bcotton> alciregi: i really appreciate your effort, thanks for dropping in
13:59:39 <bcotton> time for the fedora council meeting now
13:59:44 <bcotton> #endmeeting