15:00:03 <mhroncok> #startmeeting FESCO (2020-04-20)
15:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 20 15:00:03 2020 UTC.
15:00:03 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:03 <zodbot> The chair is mhroncok. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-04-20)'
15:00:06 <mhroncok> #meetingname fesco
15:00:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:00:09 <mhroncok> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, bookwar, sgallagh, contyk, mhroncok, dcantrell
15:00:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: bookwar contyk dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek
15:00:12 <mhroncok> #topic init process
15:00:18 <contyk> .hello psabata
15:00:18 <nirik> morning
15:00:18 <zodbot> contyk: psabata 'Petr Šabata' <psabata@redhat.com>
15:00:19 <mhroncok> hello o/
15:00:24 <bookwar> .hello2
15:00:25 <zodbot> bookwar: bookwar 'Aleksandra Fedorova' <alpha@bookwar.info>
15:00:27 <sgallagh> .hello2
15:00:28 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
15:00:32 <bcotton> .hello2
15:00:33 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:00:35 <zbyszek> .hello2
15:00:36 <dcantrell> .hello2
15:00:36 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
15:00:39 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
15:00:40 <decathorpe> .hello2
15:00:45 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
15:01:01 <mhroncok> that's 8/9 + bcotton
15:01:10 <mhroncok> awaiting ignatenkobrain
15:01:32 <mhroncok> but going ahead even without him
15:01:37 <mhroncok> #topic #2370 Fedora 33 System-Wide Change: java-11-openjdk as system JDK in F33
15:01:40 <mhroncok> .fesco 2370
15:01:43 <mhroncok> this has (+5, 1, -0) and is basically approved already
15:01:43 <zodbot> mhroncok: Issue #2370: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change: java-11-openjdk as system JDK in F33 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2370
15:01:48 <mhroncok> zbyszek decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok dcantrell bookwar voted in the ticket
15:01:50 <ignatenkobrain> sorry, I'm still having a meeting, I should be able to join you in 15-30 mins
15:01:51 <mhroncok> anybody wants to vote now?
15:02:00 <zbyszek> Before that,
15:02:00 <mhroncok> ignatenkobrain: thanks for the info
15:02:07 <mhroncok> zbyszek: go
15:02:19 <zbyszek> are there any doubts about the change or outstanding questions?
15:02:35 <nirik> +1
15:02:46 <mhroncok> zbyszek: if you are to question the reason this was on the agenda, I'll get back to that
15:02:49 <contyk> +1
15:03:06 <zbyszek> Actually no.
15:03:39 <zbyszek> I was just wondering if there's something technical to discuss, and hoping to clear anything up.
15:03:51 <mhroncok> zbyszek: I consider the chanange proposal a bit rough and confusing-ish, but I didn't want to give jvanek hard time
15:04:32 <mhroncok> the intentions are good and were clarified
15:04:39 <mhroncok> sgallagh: vote?
15:04:39 <decathorpe> yeah, the recent revisions made the proposal a bit better
15:04:48 <sgallagh> +1
15:05:00 <zbyszek> mhroncok: agreed
15:05:08 <mhroncok> #agree APPROVED (+8, 1, -0)
15:05:13 <mhroncok> anything to the topic?
15:05:30 <zbyszek> I love how side-tags are suddently making so many unrelated things easier ;)
15:05:58 <mhroncok> I wanted to ask about our policy. this gained +3 after the first week has passed. should it have been autoapproved then immediatelly or not?
15:07:02 <mhroncok> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/#_ticket_policy
15:07:02 <sgallagh> It should have been, yes
15:07:14 <zbyszek> mhroncok: what about allowing a judgement call, by whoever is tending the wiki, i.e. either fesco members or FPM:
15:07:15 <sgallagh> Unless someone had added the `meeting` tag
15:07:40 <sgallagh> We already allow a judgement call.
15:07:44 <zbyszek> if it's clear that the discussion is ongoing or people are away, just say "waiting another week for votes", and nothing happens.
15:07:57 <mhroncok> At the end of that one week, if the proposal has gained at least three "for" votes and no "against" votes, it is approved.
15:08:02 <sgallagh> Any FESCo member can add the `meeting` tag to force it to a meeting (which generally means another week)
15:08:29 <mhroncok> ack
15:08:34 <zbyszek> OK.
15:09:03 <mhroncok> bcotton: in that case, I suggest you don't tag things with meeting like in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2370#comment-642346
15:09:29 <mhroncok> anyway...
15:09:37 <mhroncok> #topic Next week's chair
15:09:50 <bookwar> me!
15:09:57 <bcotton> i generally tag things meeting if there's no decision after a week, but i'm happy to not do that :-)
15:10:05 <mhroncok> #action bookwar will chair next meeting
15:10:10 <mhroncok> bcotton: thanks
15:10:14 <mhroncok> bookwar: thanks
15:10:18 <mhroncok> #topic Open Floor
15:10:44 <mhroncok> elevator music plays
15:10:45 <sgallagh> I have one item for open floor
15:10:51 <mhroncok> sgallagh: go ahead
15:11:24 <sgallagh> one moment; finding the link...
15:11:49 <sgallagh> .bug 1825046
15:11:52 <zodbot> sgallagh: 1825046 – NVIDIA Turing GPU "secure boot" is broken and can lead to full system lockups - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1825046
15:12:28 <sgallagh> tl;dr version: there's a bug that we'd probably block on if it affected all nVidia cards, but it's limited to a small (expensive) set.
15:12:36 <dcantrell> interesting
15:12:50 <sgallagh> It's approved as a Freeze Exception, but there's a question as to whether it should be treated as a blocker
15:12:57 <sgallagh> (In case the proposed fix is incomplete)
15:13:31 <sgallagh> I don't think it would reasonably meet that standard normally, but it's been suggested that Red Hat has contractual obligations to certain hardware manufacturers in this case.
15:13:43 <dcantrell> can you use the system with the nvidia driver turned off and fall back on another?
15:14:20 <mhroncok> does fedora generally block on Red Hat contractual obligations?
15:14:21 <nirik> can/t this be fixed in a update?
15:14:25 <sgallagh> dcantrell: Unknown for sure, but if the Lenovo P53 works like my P50? No.
15:14:50 <dcantrell> does it prevent installation of all forms?
15:14:53 <sgallagh> mhroncok: We've been known to occasionally stretch our blocker definitions for such cases.
15:15:39 <mhroncok> is the fix confirmed?
15:15:47 <mhroncok> if so, the FE should do it
15:15:50 <sgallagh> But formally, no. Informally, it's generally been in Fedora's interest not to do things actively counter to Red Hat's interests.
15:15:51 <bookwar> sgallagh: do we need to decide now? FE seems to be enough for landing a fix at this point? And if fix is not working we need a new assesment of when excatly it is not working, aren't we?
15:15:51 <dcantrell> if you can still install on the system, I'd say this isn't a blocker and can wait for an update
15:16:20 <sgallagh> dcantrell: It would have an impact on Live media
15:16:27 <sgallagh> Which doesn't change after release.
15:16:27 <cyberpear> (`nouveau.modeset=0` sometimes helps, but usually `acpi=off` was needed to actually get an install to go thru, but I'm not sure of this exact patch)
15:16:53 <decathorpe> if it impacts live media, that would make a really bad impression
15:16:58 <nirik> I don't understand why there would be a contractual obligation on fedora releases... that seems really not good.
15:17:20 <mhroncok> nirik: +1
15:17:22 <sgallagh> I don't have the background on that.
15:17:27 <nirik> it seems like it's mostly suspend?
15:17:32 <nirik> " issue manifests most easily as suspend/resume failing in Discrete GPU mode."
15:17:45 <nirik> which means you should be able to install and update
15:17:50 <dcantrell> my general thought is if there's a workaround, no exception--wait for update.  if there is a fix available and it's low risk, sure.  but if we're waiting on a fix and the risk is unknown.... probably not
15:17:54 <sgallagh> "Other, more severe, failure methods are possible due to the undefined state of the GPU after the ASB firmware has failed to load."
15:19:12 <nirik> sure, I said mostly. ;)
15:19:31 <sgallagh> FWIW, I'm not strongly in favor of a blocker designation here.
15:19:48 <sgallagh> But I want us to make a decision with due consideration.
15:20:03 <sgallagh> Because we're already in a slip
15:20:05 <contyk> I'd be fine with FE.
15:20:11 <nirik> well, if we aren't making it a special fesco blocker... perhaps we should just let it be decided in the usual process?
15:20:28 <ignatenkobrain> I'm finally here
15:20:29 <zbyszek> nirik: +1. (FE sounds fine.)
15:20:30 <nirik> ie, blocker review, etc
15:20:32 <mhroncok> I agree with nirik
15:20:55 <sgallagh> Proposal: FESCo does not feel that this bug justifies being declared a FESCo-blocker.
15:21:00 <sgallagh> +1
15:21:02 <zbyszek> +1
15:21:04 <dcantrell> +1
15:21:13 <ignatenkobrain> +1
15:21:16 <nirik> +1
15:21:31 <mhroncok> +1
15:21:45 <bookwar> +1, if blocker is required, we need more details - why
15:21:48 <decathorpe> +1
15:22:18 <mhroncok> #agree FESCo does not feel that https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1825046 justifies being declared a FESCo-blocker. (+8, 0, -0)
15:22:26 <contyk> +1
15:22:36 <mhroncok> #undo
15:22:36 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by mhroncok at 15:22:18 : FESCo does not feel that https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1825046 justifies being declared a FESCo-blocker. (+8, 0, -0)
15:22:49 <mhroncok> contyk: sorry, I counted 8 and missed ignatenkobrain is here
15:22:53 <mhroncok> #agree FESCo does not feel that https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1825046 justifies being declared a FESCo-blocker. (+9, 0, -0)
15:23:14 <sgallagh> That's all I had
15:23:25 <mhroncok> sgallagh: thank you for bringing it
15:23:25 <zbyszek> .fesco 2371
15:23:27 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2371: F33 System-Wide Change: Removal of the glibc-headers package - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2371
15:23:52 <zbyszek> It's a week old.
15:24:00 <zbyszek> Should we discuss here or in the ticket?
15:24:09 <dcantrell> I've added my thoughts in that ticket
15:24:12 <mhroncok> zbyszek: ticket's fine with me
15:24:31 <zbyszek> FWIW, I'm fine with the Change as it stands.
15:25:35 <mhroncok> seems like it's going to be the ticket
15:25:42 <zbyszek> OK.
15:25:51 <sgallagh> I haven't taken the time to study this fully. I'll try to do that today
15:25:54 <mhroncok> zbyszek: don't forget to vote there
15:26:12 <zbyszek> I voted now.
15:26:28 <mhroncok> anything else for the floor?
15:27:04 * sgallagh was thinking a nice rug, maybe?
15:27:33 <dcantrell> it'd really tie the room together
15:27:34 <bcotton> It would really tie the room together
15:27:36 <mhroncok> .fire sgallagh
15:27:36 <zodbot> adamw fires sgallagh
15:27:36 <dcantrell> HA
15:27:38 <bcotton> dcantrell++
15:27:44 <dcantrell> bcotton++
15:27:44 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for bcotton changed to 25 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:27:47 <sgallagh> hahahaha
15:28:02 <sgallagh> That's just, like, my opinion man
15:28:06 <mhroncok> nice
15:28:24 <mhroncok> ok, see you next week
15:28:31 <mhroncok> thanks for coming
15:28:34 <zbyszek> Thanks mhroncok.
15:28:35 <mhroncok> stay safe
15:28:39 <zbyszek> See you next week.
15:28:42 <sgallagh> Same to you
15:28:44 <dcantrell> mhroncok++
15:28:45 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for churchyard changed to 16 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:28:45 <dcantrell> thanks
15:28:55 <mhroncok> #endmeeting